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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNotToBlame1241 you have nothing to be ashamed about. I know your feelings of being crushed and judging yourself harshly for not reacting as you would have expected yourself to. Give yourself some slack, 40 years is a lot of time invested and a major commitment and I would suggest you read earlier posts in the betrayed husbands section (go back to part 7 and 6 as well, which were very helpful for me). All of what you're going through is not unique to you. These feelings will stay for a very very long time. Everything depends on your fWW (specially whether the 'f' status is earned) and how remorseful she is and how hard she'll be willing to work, that is, if you make a commitment to stay. I would suggest you don't make a commitment either way right now, nor allow yourself to make any promises regarding D or R etc... Read, read and read. Get yourself up, look after yourself. Depending on your WWs stitch, she may still be in what is called the fog, she may go through withdrawal. Read up on all of that in the FAQ section. DO NOT trust anything but your gut.

Finally, on that point of your gut. Are you sure you have all the information? How did you get it? More often than not, everything coming out of most waywards piehole in the initial stages of discovery is lies upon lies. Your feelings should not be discounted. Your gut is screaming something; listen to it. Investigate, talk, talk and talk about the A (or possible multiple As). The only way to verify after that is through behaviour. Don't let words sway you, only consistent and verifiable behaviour testifies to a persons commitment and trust ability, don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

I hope I have given you good advise, some of the vets here will obviously give much better advise. Ask them.

Hang in there... ((ImNotToBlame1241

*Side man hug...


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
ImNotToBlame1241
♂ Member
Member # 35112
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Holding & noescape. You've both given me a lot good info and food for thought. While I read both your posts, I need to reread them again for it all to digest. noescape, your suggestion of reading earlier posts in the betrayed husbands section was excellent. Amazing how the simplest common sense things get overlooked when your head isn't screwed on right.

As for being ashamed and the cuckold comment I made, please know that they were both just knee jerk reactions. Mostly because I came from another forum where the male members are mainly "in your face" types. I've left that forum because it gets tiresome real quick, especially when you're already beat up. In truth, I've never been what many would call an "alpha male" whatever the hell that really is. LOL I have never given a rats ass about the macho BS that says a man can't express his emotions without being labeled.

Anyway, thanks again. It's really nice to get some input from a male prospective. Not that I don't listen to the other team also.

I promise to return after I've reread your posts and read the rest of this section.

[This message edited by ImNotToBlame1241 at 3:46 PM, March 21st (Wednesday)]


FYI I'm not a New Member. Just an Old Member who's New.
The worst feeling in the world is to know that you have been lied to and used, over and over again

Posts: 51 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Somewhere way south of Betrayedville
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

INTB,

My wife and I have been married since 2000, together since teens. She is the only woman I've done anything more than kiss with. I don't think I've even intentionally felt up another boob. Unless I count myself. Her affair was about a year and a half, and was not the first, or really even second. In one of the emails I found from the OM well before dday I found "does he have a cuckold fetish?" and confronted my wife about it, and she said he was asking advice about a friend. The man assumed I knew on some level. Possibly because I confronted every thing I ran into, and got talked down and gaslighted.

She did things similar to what your wife did; she needed time away from everyone because of the stress, and I was happy to oblige that, and it was weekends away while me and the boys hung out at home and went to the park and shit.

I'd try to text her or call her and get a brief "tired, ttyl" and honestly I never expected her to answer the phone after a period of time. Looking at cell records after that I'd see 3 hour calls to OM or a flurry of texts including pics going into the night, while she and the boys are at her folks lake house.

I still feel humiliated. I know if I ever run into the OM it's unlikely he will be able to wear shoes or use fine motor skills for a period of time afterwards. I am confident I am smarter than he is, more reliable, better in bed, actually financially stable, but the guy has a big dick and my wife lied to me for a year and a half fucking him and treating me like shit. And it isn't even the first time, though the scope and magnitude blow anything else away.

I am at a point where I can understand I don't give much of a shit what other people may think of the above, because I know I handled it with as much honesty and dignity as I could. So I'm down to trying to dislodge this shit from my head, because we'll be two years into R on May 21, and she has done damn near everything I could ask. It gets more and more manageable as you work on it, puzzle together the necessary truths as they apply to you, but when you start this shit it's like someone kicked the fucking 10,000 piece jigsaw out the window and just finding all the pieces takes time.

There's a range of shit guys here have gone through and how they have dealt with it, so you most definitely are not alone.

eta:

an "alpha male" is an asshole that doesn't understand basic tribal social dynamics.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 4:48 PM, March 21st (Wednesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After all I had given to the relationship, only to be cheated on, I have a new appreciation for alpha.

On the surface it means asshole, which then causes a fleeing reaction from anything associated with being an asshole or alpha, but simply to me, it means keeping my boundaries and not putting up with passive aggressive bullshit.

I'm a fixer, due to low self-esteem from FOO issues (family of origin)- so I put up with a lot of boundary violations. I made excuses for her behavior; 'oh, she's just in a bad mood'...'she really didn't mean that', etc.
...then I'd *go to work*, many times bending over backwards to *make it right*.

Not no more.

I have become a non-asshole alpha male through hard experience, and my ability to tolerate fools and drama queens gladly has diminished.
I no longer "pride myself" on my ability to remain un-jealous...yes, that pride came before a fall, and I see it, and I have changed.

Alpha is about establishing and enforcing your personal boundaries, imo, and not allowing any brooking of them any more.

My take on R (reconciliation) is that it requires remorse.
That's the most important thing to me, because it is who they are.
The other three things are 'what they do'...
Honesty
Transparency
NC (no contact with the AP, or anyone who aided the deception)

This is an excellent read about what remorse looks like, and the journey ahead:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

Bump it to the top after you read it will you?

Useful definitions:
Regret is concerned with the damage done to them. The consequences.
Remorse is concerned with the damage done to you, damn the consequences.
Hope that helps.
BM)))))))))))))))))))


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
thyme2go
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Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jjct - excellent post and very sage advice. Nice.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, March 21st (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eh, I guess it's because I mostly hear it used in connection with some exciting take-charge kinda guy who's totally fearless and knows he's the fucking man. Then it gets all kinds of "well what THIS part really means" shit when you drill down for details. I like your definition jj, but I'll call it something else. I will intend to brainstorm this and forget about it five minutes after I close the browser window.

I guess I prefer to identify with Cap America more than Tony Stark. Unless I'm in a shitty mood, then I wanna be Darth Malgus. That fucker is scary.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks t2g! Como frijole? Good to see you around!

When I was struggling with the jigsaw pieces of remorse vs. regret, a friend said something very wise.
Him; "You know what remorse is."
Me; "Huh? I do?"
Him; "Yes, because you've felt it yourself!"
Me; "Ahhhh!"
(accompanied by lightbulb clicking "on")

Since I then understood what it was internally, it led me to trust my gut more. True remorse resonates within. Regret, not so much...regret has a hollow, clanging, surface-y, feel. It's only temporary too: as long as the consequences are present.
In me, remorse still hurts from 50 years ago when I stole a candy bar. Yeah, remorse runs deep.

I'm more of a spiderman type of guy, deflecting my super hero awesomeness with a nerdclown cover.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was this you leaving the beer garden?


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This notion of the "alpha male" and his impervious nature simply isn't true. Everyone who knows me would categorize me as an "alpha male", but that didn't stop my FWW from having an A because it wasn't about me.

I don't care if you're the shy, sensitive type, or someone like me, none of us are bulletproof.

It hurts regardless of what "type" of guy you are. My FWW chose an AP who's my polar opposite. Believe me it doesn't feel any better that I could decimate that fool with one hand tied behind my back, or that I'm more successful than him, or that I'm more handsome and charming. He fucked my wife for the better part of a year and got through to her by being sensitive, loving, and willing to pretzel-shape himself into whatever FWW needed.

There is no good side to being a BH. It sucks from every angle.

Maybe you want more confidence and swagger, but those things do very little, and are largely counterproductive to recovering from a blow this big.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
foundoutlater
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Member # 32900
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It hurts regardless of what "type" of guy you are. My FWW chose an AP who's my polar opposite. Believe me it doesn't feel any better that I could decimate that fool with one hand tied behind my back, or that I'm more successful than him, or that I'm more handsome and charming.

^This.

It is not about the M or the BS, it is the fucked up choices/coping skills/brokenness of the WS. Every man has his strengths and weakness. Many strengths are also a weakness. None of it matters in the WS choice to betray the BS. I would not say I am a polar opposite of my W’s AP, but in many ways we are nothing alike. The fact is he was irrelevant as well. He became the “drug” (an A) of choice. My W may never have done “drugs” had he not been around, that does not change what he was and my role in it (it was not about me).

Living in my own skin, loving it and being comfortable with me, my choices and my actions – that is what matters. I love my W, I want my M, there are lots of compromises in an M but compromising who I am is not one of them. I think the appropriate confidence and swagger is to be good with this and not change who I am because I “need” my M.


Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

Posts: 1062 | Registered: Jul 2011
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are plenty of us here who have chosen to reconcile with our wives.

If your wife is remorseful and willing to put in the work to make the marriage a safe place for you, then reconciliation can be a good, healthy and productive choice.

If not, then you need to look at your options. Real men don't fight for sluts. You respect yourself enough to know when it's best for you and your children to either walk away, or let her walk.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Real men don't fight for sluts.

I thought that was a reality show on FOX.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
dday3302011
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Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, March 22nd (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Living in my own skin, loving it and being comfortable with me, my choices and my actions – that is what matters. I love my W, I want my M, there are lots of compromises in an M but compromising who I am is not one of them. I think the appropriate confidence and swagger is to be good with this and not change who I am because I “need” my M.

Exactly.

If anyone reading this hasn't read WAL's post towards the end of Betrayed Men- Part 7 where he talks about what his wife's done to work on herself and make the marriage safe again, then you should read it now. Then read it again. My FWW has attacked her issues in much the same way since dday. In short she's been an animal in taking responsibility and "owning her shit". I would never consider staying if she hadn't.

It's an individual choice really, but I agree with foundoutlater. I won't compromise myself. Morphing into some sort of cuckolded, delusional douchebag, just so I could keep my family intact wasn't and never will be an option for me. My M doesn't define me. I do.

God speed to those of you who have WW's that lack remorse or accountability. I have no idea how you deal with that shit. I know I couldn't.

[This message edited by dday3302011 at 10:56 PM, March 22nd (Thursday)]


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, March 23rd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing ...yah, something like that. haha!
I think the ladies sense when someone's comfortable in their own skin. I think their "6th sense" comes in part, from being 'hunted', as it were...you know, always being "checked out", hit on, etc...
Most of us don't know what it's like. So, as a survival tool, they've developed a knack for reading body language...and they especially follow where the eyes track.

&dday, it is tough when they lack remorse, that's why I'm pretty big on the definitions, because I spent too much time trying to find it in her...wishful, magical thinking and all that.

Came a time when the lightbulb just went 'click' - and I knew it wasn't there. Hence my status.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
SuperDuperWonderboy
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Member # 34716
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, March 23rd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's an individual choice really, but I agree with foundoutlater. I won't compromise myself. Morphing into some sort of cuckolded, delusional douchebag, just so I could keep my family intact wasn't and never will be an option for me. My M doesn't define me. I do.

^^^This^^^

It would have been so easy for me to walk away, and I did and still do have every right to do so. But, because my wife is remorseful, and because she is showing tremendous dedication to saving the marriage...I will be a strong husband, a strong father, and a strong man and fight for the marriage as well. That being said, being a strong father, man, and husband requires that I am true to my morals, my values, and my beliefs. If she can't, or won't, heal herself, then I can be secure in my decision to leave a toxic relationship, and still be the father that my children deserve.

That being said, I understand why this can be a deal breaker for many. Often times the relationship isn't worth saving in the first place, or the spouse isn't committed to truly reconciling. If that is the case, then by all means, run--don't walk--out of that shit-storm.

I hope I am right, and that my marriage is worth saving. Either way, I'm strong enough to fight for it. On my terms.


My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, March 23rd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=446349

I would strongly suggest this as the starting point re: remorseless WWs. I know I could've benefitted a lot starting out knowing that stuff 2 years ago.

Regardless of my stitch (infidelities both ways), I know now the difference between remorse and regret and the importance of the definitions. I even stated to her many times during those first few months "seems like what you really are sorry about, what you regret, Is being found out. Not the fact that you deceived me and betrayed our M and children" (she still behaves that way). And this was when I was overwhelmed by remorse not only at the horrible state of the M throughout those years (much of which I wasn't aware of) but primarily at my own A and fog. I never saw that from her re: her As or her handling of the M because of those As for so many years.

I've given up on her, and that was the lightbulb moment for me when I landed here in SI and specifically here on the BH threads (thanks out to WAL and the other vets here for helping me see things as they are, rather than as I thought they should be, or she'd have me believe).

The lesson being that if, after DDay, limbo is a state that suits the WS, you're not getting anywhere, and probably never will if it lasts for anything over a few weeks. Start to think for yourself and stop thinking/looking out for your M.

It took WORK to conceal and carry out the deception, if the WS is unwilling to WORK for the M, the children or the R, then The M is doomed whether you acknowledge it or not.

I envy the men here who have Ws who got working post DDay, but then, it's down to my own brokenness and bad choices that I find myself here. Now, at least, I know WHAT I should be working for and where to concentrate my efforts and it's got nothing to do with my (STBX?)W.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
ImNotToBlame1241
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Member # 35112
Default  Posted: 5:07 AM, March 26th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK guys, I'm back after reading and rereading parts 6&7 of this section plus loads of other stuff. I have to be honest and tell you that my freaking head is spinning and about to explode. While the information was extremely helpful, processing it all in my current state is somewhat near impossible.

So I've decided to take something from all that info that seemed to be repeated over and over that I can understand and use now. That is to take ONE thing at a time. e.g., to write a list of all the things I need to address in this sh!tty mess and then group them by order of importance. After that, it's just a matter of working down the list one by one. Fix or get answers to one, move on to the next and so forth. I like this idea because I'm so f*cked up right now it's hard to hold more than one thought in my mind at a time anyway.

So here goes:

#1. My BIGGEST issue is finding a way to know and feel good in my own mind that WW is doing the heavy lifting needed to help me heal. I'm still kind of foggy about this and it's eating me up. Right now she is back on track and I see her effort everyday. I feel this effort is honest and unsolicited. This has happened before however and I need to get straight in my head what my response should be if, and when she falls off the wagon again and becomes complacent, taking days off etc...

Also, how many chances does she get in this regard. Remember, I'm only 4 months out and we both are in IC.

I know this is subjective and up to each BS individually as to what he is willing to endure. However, I'm thinking that there must be some rule of thumb, or quasi guideline here that could help me develop a game plan.

It's late, I'm tired and as I said, not the sharpest tool in the shed right now, so I hope the above makes at least a bit of sense. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[This message edited by ImNotToBlame1241 at 5:11 AM, March 26th (Monday)]


FYI I'm not a New Member. Just an Old Member who's New.
The worst feeling in the world is to know that you have been lied to and used, over and over again

Posts: 51 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Somewhere way south of Betrayedville
Mypoorboys
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Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Everyone,
Thank GOD I finally found the new thread.
Great to see most are here; jjct, noescape, 64fleet, all my buddies who have heard, listened, responded and returned advice to me and the throngs more that appear on this forum.
Just an update following my apology to every female on this planet that do play by the rules.
Last Friday was my first Divorce Court day, (turned out to be 1/2 day), but as predicted my wonderful adversary was in the process of showing her true nature before we adjourned for the day.
She will continue to be cross examined when we return on April 3rd.
She now brings the Father into the mix and he will testify. Hopefully, the judge will see why, 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree', but does this all matter?
Remember, in wonderful New Jersey, divorce is no-fault. Adultery means nothing.
When she was asked why she wanted to divorce me, her reply, 'we stopped doing things as a couple'.
No, the correct answer is, 'she started doing things with someone else! period.
So, when I take the stand, (without mentioning names), I will implicitly tell and reiterate the statement she made to me when I was thrown out with the trash back in Dec. 2010. I found the name of the OM and asked her, who is Dave? Oh, he is someone I very much care about and he has been very persistent.
End of story, end of discussion. The judge need not hear anymore regarding the obvious.
So, guys, everything is still on the butcher block and the judge is holding the cleaver.
She lies on the stand; told the judge she can't recall when I was diagnosed with cancer or the months that I had my two surgeries back in 2010. Dah! I had the second surgery on our anniversary and three days later, (still in the hospital), it was my Birthday. She shows up, first time is 3 days, with no gift and with her two friends, who did bring a movie and a prank gift. The nurses in the ward gave me a cake.
During her testimony, she states she wants alimony, child support, her share of my pension, and of course, continue only to work 2.5 days a week and keep the house!
Hey, why don't I just thrown in a kidney and my soul to boot!
Trail will take at least another two days. Can anyone say, 'chagiiinnngg'!
I remind those that know me, that I continue to hold on, remain in the house, keep my cool and pray every night that the good Lord will hear my prayers for fairness and kindness towards my boys and our future.
Those that know not of me, just read my profile blog and use it as a, 'take home lesson', if you like.
Again, it feels good to be around old friends again and look forward to hearing back from all of you.
Wish you all well and GODSPEED in your recovery.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
Mypoorboys
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Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PS-
Oh, by the way, if you get in bed with your wife and you instantly smell her aroma, don't just assume she is happy to be near you, (if you catch my drift), ie, you better think twice about jumping into the deep abyss without the proper scuba gear!
And, all those years I thought otherwise, 'what a naive, dope'.

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, March 27th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1241)))
Have you read this?>>>


http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

I hope it helps you get some clarity. It takes time to "settle down" from the shaking of our lives, and after awhile, you begin to recognize things...like:
-these are appropriate boundaries for me...etc.

In my particular journey, early on, I decided to embrace all the stages of grief. You know; denial, anger, bargaining, acceptance (et al).
I wanted to truly get through it, rather than over it. I didn't want to risk a stone unturned. I really delved into it all and let the tears and raging anger have its way, have its day. It's not a linear progression, you dip in and out of the stages, but after time, the bumpiness begins to smooth.
I promise you, you will know what is your proper path. It has a way of appearing. Often, in a "tada!" type-of-way.
Listen for it. Trust your gut.

MPBs))) dam brother. You are one strong-ass hombre.
When I was 1st exposed to no-fault, my L said; "Yeah, it sucks, but judges still don't like boyfriends."
Cold comfort, I know. Hang in there brother. We're all rooting for you.


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