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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread part 10
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((phmh))) That's really at the heart of it, deciding what you will and won't put up with, isn't it? With Asperger's, you have a much better fighting chance than with an NPD, though. From what I understand, people with Asperger's actually want normal social interactions; with an NPD, they have zero interest in conducting a normal relationship. They like the outward appearance but not the inner work that it takes to maintain it.

sohurt: I was with mine from October 1989 to May 2009. I had suspicions, but mostly just crazymaking until February 2005. That was when I had enough and installed a VAR (or 4 ). After I knew how much he lied about every-damn-thing, I became obsessed with fact-checking. Within two years, the man who previously had shoved me once in 1993 and gone to anger management classes and not touched me again body-slammed me face first into a wall, breaking my nose. I was starting to look behind the curtain and expose him. I didn't press charges, but my parents did. Since I didn't testify, the charges were dropped. He was awesome until after trial. Once the trial was over, the emotional abuse became far worse. There were screaming matches at 2-3 am, and all kinds of craziness on his part. It was two years after that, almost to the day, that he yanked me off of a sofa onto the ground by my feet, hurting my back, then picking me up by my legs and spanking me.

I put up with a lot, but it didn't happen all at once or overnight. I excused a lot of bad behavior because it had been so good in the beginning, and he could be really charming, and he seemed to get along great with everyone except his family, and he introduced it gradually, over years. I blamed myself, wondering what I could have done better. By the time it happened, I was ready mentally; I just put my head down and didn't turn back.

It's not easy getting out, and the best way is when you have terra firma to stand on. Leaving all of a sudden is probably one of the worst things you can do if you don't have a plan, because they will play on your fears and suck you back in. Getting your account is such, such a wonderful start! Keep on keeping on!

[This message edited by veritas at 1:24 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so hard to not want him to fight for me, even if he is a toxic mess. I guess rejection is awful even if you wouldn't take them back if they were the last person on earth. I feel that people IRL do not understand what whack jobs they are, and how we are sucked in with the dreams of a family united. I miss the family unity, I don't miss him.

I did realise something last night. He has all but ignored me and our 3 kids over the last 7 months. I thought I was just an object, but apparently the kids were too. Now people don't see him as a great husband and father, we mean nothing to him. Throws us crumbs to keep us attached and then off he goes again. And if a man can do that to his own flesh and blood, then why do I feel bad that he is doing it to me.


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so hard to not want him to fight for me even if he is a toxic mess.

It's because the behavior is so abnormal. It's so shocking. It's like they've thrown out an old toaster that doesn't work any longer.

When someone acts so horribly, we (at the very least) expect they will acknowlege the behavior and apologize.

It seems there is no middle ground for the NPD. They either stalk and harass or drop you as if you never existed.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by jjct at 7:09 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The realization that I was seeking external validation...my rightness and my role in this world...was another notch on my peculiarly designed key - that helped me unlock myself from my pet.

I say to ppl, seek within, for your silence, for your peace. After all what more can I say? For within, I found that I am finally ok.
Apart from fixing broken other things...I can't heal broken wings!

What I can be is me.
- Why tolerate an eggshell cracking existence, when I was made to fly? (and dine in happy splendor with genius)
- why tolerate such miserableness, always fixing this-or-that when others seem to hug so truly, in true love?

No. I decided. To not live suchaway. I presumedly decided to live the way my dad taught me, not in quiet desperation, but I think better at the point of the spear.

It's painful and sometimes bloody out here, but I got what? No better sheildmates I say.
(((TRIBE)))


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That post was beautiful.


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jj,

You either make me laugh or you make me cry.

I'll take both as they are both healing emotions.

thank you, friend.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Agree.
I wish I could cry...I have the most difficult time shedding a few tears, but whenever I do, I get immense relief.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
optimist
♀ Member
Member # 27939
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Freaking hate anyone who is NPD.

that's all.


Me: 39 Divorced April 4 2009
Kids: 9, 12 and 14 ALL AMAZING
My past... is my past now...

Posts: 261 | Registered: Mar 2010
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read here a lot longer than I've posted. I believe through the last 4 years that no one is saying people aren't welcome here, but rather that a willingness to try to understand the setting of "here" is important to our healing (current posters) and especially to yours (a newcomer poster). I too, feel like we need to get back on track.

But I have stayed away awhile lately because of the triggers. I cannot have some of the conversations or interactions with my X that I see described here lately or I will be sending my children and I down a miserable path or even endangering my life. When there are posters that are doing some of these things, beyond venting, the responses of other members dealing with an NPD are going to be real, perhaps harsh, and urgent(or the flight response instead of fight in my case). It doesn't mean that a survivor, a member of the tribe, is passing judgement, but rather that we truly believe that this is a serious issue and we are trying to help, and sometimes at great emotional cost to ourselves.

I really loved my ex-husband. I was and still am devastated by his infidelity (if I weren't I would be seeking help at another site or location). I struggle with what all of this has done to our children. I continue to have to deal with the past and present of an NPD in my life. I am proud of my growth and successes since dday and my decision to no longer live with an unfaithful narcissitic personality disordered spouse. I hope to be able to help someone else with my experiences and opinions, and that in some small way I can give a fraction of the strength and wisdom I've gained here.

I don't think anyone means that someone has to pass a test or gain a stamp of approval, but rather just understand and be on board with where we are coming from, even if that means asking questions.
It would be a wonderful thing if someone could decide along the journey of this thread that they don't belong here...

The things that are very difficult for me now that I can't get support from other places are the continual court appearances and the manipulation on the N's part of our 18 year old daughter. It would be great to have a place where I can trust the judgement and opinions of others who have been through or are dealing with this.

jjct it's nice to see your poetic style speak here again too, because sometimes instead of poetry you write just normal like the rest of us! (have you read matty stepanek's poetry? it reminds me of his)


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I could cry...I have the most difficult time shedding a few tears, but whenever I do, I get immense relief

Dream,
This is interesting. I can't cry anymore either. Not even when I'm extremely angry. That used to be when it would happen the most. I'd be trying to be tough and all of a sudden I'd have this big lump in my throat and I KNEW, the next word I said was going to come out sounding like a croak. Then the waterworks would start and then the blubbering. But today, nothing.

I get sad about things, but the tears just never seem to come. It's weird.

Maybe it's because I literally cried a freakin river over that idiot and I'm completely cried out. Or maybe it's a result of the trauma I went through.

I wonder how many others have experienced this.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:55 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:57 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am still "in" it? so I don't know if that matters for the data you are seeking. I am in court next week and the custody/visitation give ample opportunity to yank my chain. So No Contact doesn't figure in 100% even though it has been almost two years I've been on my own. Having said that, I don't engage in conversation. I don't look at or ask or set myself up for attack.

Crying though? um, yes. I have days where tears are right at the cusp, just below the surface and I know that one easy moment and I will cry. I will indulge? on my weekends without kids and have a few weepy days, where when the tears come, they come.

For me, it was physical contact. I am still reminding myself to hug my kids. I don't feel natural with physical touch and it is knowing that they need to be hugged that I do it. But I worry that they can tell it isn't "natural?"

I definitely put that down to trauma.

And sometimes I know I would cry at something but I don't necessarily do the crying. I feel the prick of tears but no crying.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 9:58 PM, March 6th (Tuesday)]


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5300 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rain, i find that what is most difficult for me is transitioning from normal, emoting veritas to the ice queen veritas i have to be to deal with him. i'm thankful that i no longer have to be yes person veritas, but there is still a part of me that is mad and sad that he doesn't behave like a normal person, and i therefore have to put up those walls. i can't afford the luxury of expressing emotion to him, positive or negative, because he runs with it. it is either fight or flight, and fight isn't fight so much as it is coldly indifferent.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:17 PM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is really good to see some of the "old-timers" back and posting again. Veritas, Lied2, Discombobulated, Jjcc, Rainagain, Woundedby2, Dreamlife, Threnody, and many others.

All of you are either out or are well on your way out of your NPD relationships. You all offer a different perspective from your personal experiences. Some of you had stalkers, some just left or you left them, some had children, some special needs children, some no children.

Between all of us, we come from every economic background across the board. The NPD's we have encountered have been in every profession imaginable.

Our family backgrounds are everything from large and small families who all get along to divorced families with everyone hating each other. We come from alcoholics, drug addicts, workaholics and everything in between. We come from well-to-do families and not-so-well-to-do families.

But the GLUE that has held this group together and our common bond is that we were all married to or are married to a person who we believe has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Some have a professional diagnosis, but most don't. Usually the reason a diagnosis is acquired is because the NPD is forced into an evaluation either by the courts or because they have gotten into some other trouble, like through their jobs.

But no matter our differences, the one thing that has always been amazingly similar, are the characteristics and behavior of our NPD's. It's always been so amazing when one person describes something one NPD does and several others post after describing almost exactly the same behavior. It's almost as if they're talking about the same person.

Anyone who is dealing with an NPD is welcome here. But people need to understand that dealing with an NPD is completely different than dealing with your average Joe.

There are going to be times new NPD members are not going to like the advice they receive. They may feel that we don't know their particular situation. This is true. We may not, but there is a lot of collected experience here with the disorder itself.

I wish all the newbies the best in their journey toward safety and freedom.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No rain, haven't heard of him, so I looked him up;
Sad things happen. They do. But we don't need to live sad forever.

Mattie Stepanek

The cry and laugh centers in the brain are closely associated:
Laugh so hard you cry - yep.
Slapstick humor overstimulates the cry center - comes out as laugh.
Forced tickling, in vulnerable and sensitive areas is pain - overstim...comes out as laughter.
There's "cross-firing" from too-strong-a-signal.
(tickling's about control, not making the tickle-ee happy)

I survived by visiting and getting to know both these areas of my brain.
Why?
Because I did my best to understand what NO EMPATHY is.

Now here's a problem. Our brains cannot process negatives. Example: quick, don't think of a pink elephant.
See?

Another problem. I've got a sneaking suspicion that the very last people to "get" (process) what "no" empathy is...
are right here. (You're full of it...and I mean that in the nicest way!)

Another problem! yeesh!
Problem-solvers, anyone? Yep.
Buncha fixers, you!

So. A big part of healing is accepting that this is one thing you won't understand. How could anyone lack what you have in so much abundance?

My best understanding of no empathy is an imitation of it - directed back at the pet.
Indifference.
Walmart checker.

Added bonus - mostly, Npets seethe at such "abandonment".

Makes em sick, I tell you! Poor things. Bless their hearts.


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Indifference.
Walmart checker

I couldn't help but at this. No offense to Walmart checkers, but "indifferent" pretty much sums it up.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because I did my best to understand what NO EMPATHY is.

Am still really struggling with this - because I've come to realise also that not only was there not empathy, there was ACTUALLY enjoyment at another's suffering, and this even more I cannot fathom, even if intellectually, having done the reading, I can grasp it, just about....but it keeps slipping away, that comprehension, its very slippery.

[This message edited by Edie at 7:41 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've come to realise also that not only was there not empathy, there was ACTUALLY enjoyment at another's suffering, and this even more I cannot fathom

Edie,

This is where I really struggled too. I mean seriously could not wrap my brain around that. The cheating was bad enough, but then to find out about the OC and the second OW and that my entire marriage was all a joke (on me) was almost more than I could bear. I would have thought (there's me projecting MY morality again!) someone who had done these things would be so EMBARASSED and would go away quietly and ashamed. But he didn't. He rubbed the OW in my face every chance he got. He stalked and harassed me every chance he got. And he ENJOYED every minute of it.

The only way I managed to deal with it all was to convince myself that he was NOT the person I thought he was. I had to "delete" my memory of this person I had fallen in love with and accept that this man was a fraud. I kept asking myself, "How would I handle this situation if Charles Manson was breaking my windows, slashing my tires, hiding in my yard, fill in the blank?" Answer: Like I would if it were any other criminal. So why was I treating this one any different?

Once I changed MY thinking it not only got me past my fears, I started to feel empowered. And pretty soon I realized that what ever his problems were (empathy, no empathy, etc) it didn't really matter any more.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 8:00 AM, March 7th (Wednesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once I changed MY thinking it not only got me past my fears, I started to feel empowered. And pretty soon I realized that what ever his problems were (empathy, no empathy, etc) it didn't really matter any more.

Thanks Sadtoo. yes, I am trying to get there, but am still embroiled - still trying to 'grasp' it - and currently trying to 'leave' and also protect others, it's all very complicated.

I started trying to write a post a short while ago, trying to get it out, and still have a lot more to 'get out'. But because of something you said above, I feel I should urgently post at least where I got to in trying to write, even if it is only the beginning, cut short, and not begun to explain where I am now (and anyway, perhaps nobody could handle my verbosity, and I'm also anyway exhausted).

But the GLUE that has held this group together and our common bond is that we were all married to or are married to a person who we believe has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

And so I'm posting the following in response this point from you, and you will see why I am anxious about posting it.

For the past 24 hours, the thought (as invited, thank you Veritas) of posting my NPD story has been churning around in the pit of my stomach, churning, churning not moving, It feels stuck, trapped inside me, the millions of NPD instances and incidences over the last 25 years like grains of sand, each with a story, a vast desert terrain with insurmountable dunes, shifting and looming to reveal huge un-moveable boulders, and a sandstorm whipping up, blinding me, threatening to engulf me and lose my way, not knowing which way is up or down. Or through. It all just simply exhausts me.

And hence another reason for not writing - as evidenced by the above paragraph, probably a need at this very crucial time for me to write in great purple bathos, which is of no blooming use to anyone. But I’m good at putting one foot in front of the other, even in a sandstorm, so I will try to write, just write and see what comes, but I don’t know what I am going to write, and so probably I will just ramble on, without self-editing, lost, meandering and circulatory, so be warned, maybe horribly long-winded, you can stop reading here. ☺

A third - most important - reason of hesitancy to post: I am very sensitive to the pain here, and am deeply moved by the stories, the pain and resillience in this thread. I feel it, in my fibres, in my bones. And so I don’t want to insult, inflame, hurt or otherwise damage the fragility by dint of being some kind of interloper. The thread is entitled ‘NPD thread’ - my NPD SO is a very significant other, but not my spouse, unlike all others here. I will fully understand therefore that some may feel that already disqualifies me, and yet my interpretation of the thread and its title is that it is a thread about the disorder, information, classification, understanding and diagnosis, and most importantly its ramifications in our lives, in however it presents, and how through sharing that information, our trauma, and that understanding, and support, we reach healing and recovery, personal growth, and extend that healing and growth in all our relationships. Yes, there are other online resources available to me, and yet I feel I belong to SI and so I would like to work things through here. If I may.

Furthermore, my relationship with my NPD feels very like a marriage, where as a young twenty-four year-old I set up an organisation with an older man, as heads of which we operated as, and were known as, a complementary duo: “Edie & NPD”, and as heads of which we also operated like the mother and father of the organisation - a veritable dysfunctional family, I now see.


....



Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
TellitLikeItIs
♀ Member
Member # 33737
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, March 7th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't realize there were categories and sub-categories of NPD ... looks like mine is a somatic malignant.
I'm still grasping, digesting and taking the small steps necessary to distance myself, heal and leave as soon as I can.
This thread has helped me see what I couldn't see for so long ... this thread has helped me realize that I'm not the crazy one ... this thread has helped me stop trying to find "the right words".
Thank you all for sharing your stories, for supporting and educating ... for being an oasis of sanity in my otherwise loud and upside-down world.
In the last few months I've realized how much of myself I've lost ... all the awful things I have tolerated ... and how he is not the person I believed he was. The terrible things are truly terrible and make me question how I stayed sane through all that abuse ... but ... somehow those "big" issues don't bother me as much today as the smaller more insidious, sneaky things that I now can see. I realize that on days that I thought all was well ... his NPD ways were still at work ... chip, chip, chipping like an ice pick at my soul. And that's what keeps me motivated right now to find the means to exit.


Me: BS youthful 51
Him: skittle shitting unicorn 54
Married: 14 years
Blended family: 6 kids: 30,25,25,23,21,11
D-day: June 22 2011
living with trickle truth and too many D-days to count
Looks like R may be "real" this time around ...


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