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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 8
beautifulmess7
♀ Member
Member # 35259
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, May 16th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chili - It sounds like you have a good plan in place. I hope that things go well with the lawyer and especially the ob/gyn!

I just want to have a quick vent for a second...

First let me say that my SAWH is finally starting to really take the intiative he needs to take. He is in IC again and has gone twice in the last week. He is going to SA meetings at least once a week and sometimes twice. We are also doing MC twice per month. Not only that, but he is doing some reading, he has been opening up and talking to me, and he is definitely making progress. I just have to hope he will continue.

I know that because he is an SA it means a long recovery, but it is still frustrating to hit speed bumps. There are so many things that he needs to dig into and figure out about himself.

For example, last night we were talking specifically about his SA meetings. In the past (a few months ago) he was really resistant to the SA meetings. At first it was because he didn't really want to believe he is an SA. Now he truly believes it and knows he has a lot of work to do. But his second problem with SA is that the group is very religious.

Let me just back up a quick second and say that neither my husband nor I are religious. As athiests going through this process it has been harder because so many times people's solution is "turn to God and he will solve all your problems" or some version thereof. The 12 steps of the SA program are also all about a "higher power" and they open and close their meetings with prayer (at the meetings he attends) even though they state that SA is a non-religious organization.

Let me just say a HUGE thank you to everyone on here for the several versions of the SA 12 step program at the beginning of this thread - especially the one that is for athiests. I printed that off and gave it to him, and he said that it really helped him to embrace the program and understand what it is about outside of religion.

That sounds great, right? Except that he hasn't been bringing those 12 steps to his meetings, he doesn't keep them with his SA book, and they have just been sitting on the kitchen table under a pile of junk. I asked him last night why that is (after he told me about his SA meeting and being uncomfortable again with the prayers). It really boils down to the fact that he wants so desperately to be liked and fit in (anywhere) that he doesn't want to stand out or rock the boat by being different. It's ridiculous!

Last night he kept saying how he wishes he could find a group that all used the athiest 12 steps and didn't have constant references to God. I asked him to really think about why... Really. Why should he be bothered by other people having different religious beliefs? Why should he concern himself with what other people do or if they pray? If something works for him and it is in line with the SA program, why does he feel uncomfortable using it? Why can't he feel OK with doing his own thing for his own recovery and letting others do the same?

He said that he feels "hypocritical" going to the meetings and listening to others pray and talk about God when he doesn't believe. I told him that the only thing hypocritical about that would be pretending he shares their beliefs when he doesn't. It's not hypocritical to think differently than others. In fact, it is courageous to have the strength of your own convictions and know yourself well enough to accept others for who they are and continue to be yourself even if it is not what the majority of the group is doing.

He said that he is going to think about why he is such a follower... he almost always has been. He just goes along with what other people are doing - even if it isn't what he believes or feels comfortable with. That led him down a lot of wrong paths, including drugs and some of his SA behaviors (like very frequent visits to strip clubs- don't even get me started).

I'm sorry to rant at you like this... I just thought you guys could understand. SA's have a big knot of negative behavior and you have to just pull a string and start trying to unravel things by following it as far as you can. And then pick another string and keep going on the next issue... into infinity it seems.

Thanks for the support!


Posts: 242 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Virginia
beautifulmess7
♀ Member
Member # 35259
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, May 16th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, I forgot to add that my H has told the group he is not religious. They have encouraged him to use "higher power" to mean anything that he feels comfortable with. I know at least one other person has shared that he just thinks of the "higher power" as something outside of himself - the group, his wife, counseling, etc. That to him it just means you can't do everything on your own.

So it's not like they're pointing fingers and laughing at him for being different. In fact, it seems like they are fairly supportive. It's like he has decided in his own mind that he can't get help from them unless they stop praying and all of them remove God from their own thoughts and healing process. And that is unreasonable.

He has agreed to keep going and to think about why he feels that way. I believe him about both of those things. I guess I just have this nagging worry in the back of my head that he's going to use this as an excuse later on down the road. If he does, I just have to know that I am strong enough to not accept that and to draw a line in the sand. I just want so much to be positive, and those doubts drag me down a bit...


Posts: 242 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Virginia
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, May 16th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Ghost))))))))
Holding you in the *LIGHT* as always.

This journey has no end, I'm afraid. I still feel the pain and anger four years after one of the most terrible days of my life. I feel like I wasted my whole life with someone who pretended to love me, but really was just keeping me around to taunt me and use me to raise his kids and be a respectable wife. He treated me with disdain and disrespect and I let him. I never had a chance for a real sex life. I'll be 58 on Saturday. And that feels a lot older than it should.

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 7:34 PM, May 16th (Wednesday)]


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2933 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, May 16th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Beautifulness)))) I can relate to this part of your story very well. I am a believer in a higher power. No clear idea of what that is. So I am very comfortable when people say "God," thinking of a being or "God" as in "Good Orderly Direction. But in my experience and in the experience of those longer in recovery of many types than me, it is VERY important for addicts to accept and understand that there is something bigger than themselves.
I believe my SAfWH did not make real significant progress in recovery until he was able to process this idea. He certainly didn't have to believe in GOD, but he did have to give up the "egoish" self that is so much a part of SA. SAs have to get out of themselves, give up the idea that they have control of this thing that is bigger than them, give up the idea that they are the center of the universe, give up the idea that they CAN control this. That's when, crazy or not, they get control of their lives.
This struggle is where a good sponsor is so valuable. And a good one won't insist that he adopt a traditional view of God.
But, of course, as you know, YOU can't control how he manages his recovery. But as one of your boundaries, you CAN insist that he work the program more aggressively, get a sponsor and work the program, and set your conditions accordingly.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2933 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Sad  Posted: 6:05 AM, May 17th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone- *warning* pity party below*

I've been struggling with Mother's Day (unrelated to WH & our struggle) and with my birthday (Tuesday). I'm feeling old and worn out, second choice. The 'default', the Easy Button fix. "She's always been here, she's just like the furniture & the wallpaper". Whatever. I haven't hit a milestone birthday, but this year is a sad birthday year, not a happy birthday year. As I explained to DD, when you get older not all birthdays are happy ones. I've tried to work through several triggers. I'm trying to learn to surf the waves of pain, letting them ebb away & leave me standing and whole instead of rolling in the pain.

I guess I ought to have posted this in off topic or up in general, but I feel like this part of SI is my home. So I came here instead.

BeautifulMess, the best thing you can do is tell him your boundary & it's consequence: 'go to meetings X times a week/month or else I'll ______'. And then let it go. It's all we can do. I know how frustrating and difficult it is. Micromanaging WH & his therapy has been hard for me to let go of. Micromanagement (aka codependence) is second nature to me. It took me a very long time to stop hovering over him & then I was resentful, which has been difficult to let go of. Especially when I'm denying that I'm resentful in the first place.


I've learned to tell him my boundary (never go less than every other week unless the IC is on vacation) & my consequence, ________. I don't remember what I said truthfully. He has always maintained this schedule except once & I threw an almighty temper tantrum, and he's never deviated (that I know of).

***(((SA Spouses)))***


~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
beautifulmess7
♀ Member
Member # 35259
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, May 17th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

scaredyKat and SabinatheOwl - Thanks for your advice and encouragement. I needed to hear that, especially about just setting the boundary and consequence and letting go of the other stuff that is outside of my control. I know that in my head, but it is really good to be reminded of it.

I also need to get better about really understanding what the consequences should be. I'm just not sure how far I'm willing to go and/or what is an appropriate response. I think I have to take it in little baby steps... Like I expect you to go to IC and SA at least once per week. If he ever doesn't, then I will bring it up immediately, remind him of what we agreed to, and give him a deadline (1 week, a few days?) to go back to SA and/or set up his IC appointment. If he still doesn't follow through after that then I guess I will have to gauge his attitude towards it and decide on my action from there. That's the best I can come up with right now. Does anyone have any other way that they approach it or some other consequence they use that has worked well?

((Sabina)) I'm sorry that you are going through a rough time. Always feel free to bring whatever struggle here. We do want to help. Dealing with triggers on top of other life events (like milestone birthdays) is definitely tough. I think the approach and mindset you have are healthy. You will get through this.


Posts: 242 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Virginia
lost family
♀ Member
Member # 32578
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, May 17th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SabinatheOwl,

I'm feeling old and worn out, second choice. The 'default', the Easy Button fix. "She's always been here, she's just like the furniture & the wallpaper". Whatever. I haven't hit a milestone birthday, but this year is a sad birthday year, not a happy birthday year.

My feelings too. Not a milestone birthday, but I would normally sum up my life for New Years Day (together with some NY resolutions) and on birthdays.

Last year I got a beautiful present and a trip from WH. My son was very charming the night of the celebration, I was so proud of him and enjoyed his company so much, should've been a lovely time together, as a family. But, it wasn't....

My BDay is in June, dreading it.


Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2011
lost family
♀ Member
Member # 32578
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, May 17th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TMI.

Can't even post about it.
Not even on an anonymous forum.

But it sure makes me feel lost, sad, destroyed...


Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2011
SGRBEET
♀ Member
Member # 35442
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for those whose significant other or spouse is a SA.

Did your spouse, significant other continue to be deceitful about their past behavior regarding their SA after you discovered it (basically, did they offer full disclosure)?

If you felt they weren't totally honest, how did you deal with it (I am angry and distrustful most of the time and it's destroying my soul)?

Did you continue to have a sexual relationship with them when you didn't totally trust them?

If you could help me with any advice I would greatly appreciate it. I am in limbo hell with him and don't know what I should do.


Posts: 93 | Registered: Apr 2012
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BEET, you bet my STBX-SA continued to lie about his behavior. The only things I know about are what I found out on my own. He refused to confess ANYTHING to me. Even stuff that I had evidence for, he denied or minimized.

If you're dealing with an actual SA, you should be 100% confident that whatever you find out in the beginning is only the tip of the iceberg. I remember telling my IC in the beginning that I had a feeling I'd be finding out more. This was based on the research & reading she had me do. I was right. In fact, what I found out was even worse than I could have suspected.

My inner voice is warning me that I'm about to be hit with another discovery. I don't know what I'll learn, or when, but I know it's coming. So far my inner voice has never once been wrong.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
SGRBEET
♀ Member
Member # 35442
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nature-
You hit the nail on the head! My gut has been telling for the last 2 1/2 years that he is lying to me and that there is so much more. How do I get to the truth? I will D him if I find out he is lying.

Posts: 93 | Registered: Apr 2012
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re full disclosure-

I know I don't have it & I'm sure I won't get it. Most days, I'm satisfied with allowing this to pass, other days I struggle hard to detach. I can't force him to reveal & I'm unsure it's worth pushing him on. The disclosure brought on a serious mental health issue for me (other than but including PTSD); speaking only for myself, I don't know that I want to risk my own stability (literally) for more details. As long as I'm satisfied he isn't acting out, I let it go.

As far as the sexual boundary, I can't maintain it and I stopped trying to force myself to hold it. We are very compatible sexually, and through all of the stresses and hellish struggles this is one aspect of us that I didn't/haven't/can't (??) tried to redo. As we've improved our communication the sex is improving. I suffered through molestation as a young teen, sex and feelings were divorced for me many many years ago. Perhaps this made me "comfortable" for WH, I don't know. We're connecting emotions & sexual intimacy *now*, after so much damage & so many tears. It has been wonderful.

But I still wait for the other shoe to drop.

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I became my own detective. There was no other alternative left to me. If I had the funds I would LOVE to hire an actual PI, since I have names & phone numbers & leads to follow which would probably produce very interesting information.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
SGRBEET
♀ Member
Member # 35442
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wouldn't be able to hire a PI either. How did you go about investigating? GPS? What in particular was helpful in getting to the truth for you?

Posts: 93 | Registered: Apr 2012
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did not have a way to discreetly purchase a GPS, VAR or key logger. STBX kept me under pretty close scrutiny, particularly monetarily, and he'd have found out. My efforts were restricted to going through papers & information he had around the house. Also, I went through his phone and wrote down all the numbers & dates/times. I spent a little time on his computer, but it was so filled with porn and covered with cum it just grossed me out. I also sometimes went through his wallet. Sometimes I went through the car.

Every time I felt guilty about doing this I reminded myself that HE was hiding his life from me, HIS WIFE. I deserved to know the truth about my life, which included anything he was up to. I deserved to have adequate information to protect myself and my children. By his actions & attitude STBX made it clear that he was hiding himself & his activities from me. IF he hadn't of given me plenty of reasons to be suspicious, I wouldn't have been suspicious. As it turned out, all my suspicions were accurate, and even worse was found out.

I would have loved to have had a VAR and a keylogger.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

double post

[This message edited by Nature_Girl at 9:02 PM, May 18th (Friday)]


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
wolf_heart
♀ Member
Member # 35262
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, May 18th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is a VAR? Sorry if that is a stupid question. I just don't know what it is.


Married 26 years
BW: Me, 47
WH: 47
DDay#2: March 8th, 2012, with one of my good friends.
DDay#1: Oct. 20th 1992, 2 years post PA
Attempting R
Without honesty, loyalty, and commitment; saying you love someone, simply means nothing.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Southwestern Area of USA
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, May 19th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Voice
Activated
Recorder

Apparently a handy-dandy little device you can stow away in someone's car, briefcase, or in a room they go to for secret conversations.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
wolf_heart
♀ Member
Member # 35262
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, May 19th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dang I wish I would have had one in the garage. That is where he would go talk to the OW. They texted more then talk though. After all she is married and we a close friend of mine. Her BS and I would talk about our crazy texting spouses and how it annoyed us. We didn't realize they were texting each other so much at the time. I think 300 text a day is keeping in close contact. What is upsetting is he can only manage to text me 10-20 times a day. I feel so unwanted right now. Sorry for the pity party. I am not doing well the last week. He has a motorcycle and used our son's car for the out of town trip. I don't know how much it would have helped my situation if I had thought of planting one.


Married 26 years
BW: Me, 47
WH: 47
DDay#2: March 8th, 2012, with one of my good friends.
DDay#1: Oct. 20th 1992, 2 years post PA
Attempting R
Without honesty, loyalty, and commitment; saying you love someone, simply means nothing.

Posts: 227 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Southwestern Area of USA
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, May 20th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I only got full disclosure after many years, after confronting him practically in a strip club, seeing.the porn he had accidentally left open on the computer, and after finally asking the same old question at the right time. AND after he had more than a year of sobriety. Addicts lie. And when their brain is still affected by their substance of choice they lie more. Which is why we say this is crazy maKing. It is. You didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it. You CAN set boundaries, and insist on transparency and accountability. And follow through. Taking care of YOU is paramount.
Hugs.
It IS about you. But his crap didn't happen because of you.

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 8:11 AM, May 20th (Sunday)]


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2933 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
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