I've learned a lot about addiction the past four years, especially because of my own addictive personality and addiction to pain medication. I got into therapy real quick once I admitted my addiction. But I've got a LOT to learn. Especially in that SA and substance abuse addiction are alike, yet...different.
I do agree, Recovery Nation leaves something to be desired. And I'm "hoping" as he delves further into this, he will understand that more as he's facing his issues more in depth. As I said, for years he wasn't willing to even address the fact that he even had "issues" to begin with, and in many areas, he's made great strides in the past few months.
And I did e-mail him last week all three versions of the 12 steps on the first post of this thread.
I have told him however that while I won't nag him, I will give him my list of expectations, and in it, I'm going to follow 12 steps. He needs to have accountability, to someone other than me.
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
He knows how sleep meds affect me now, and he doesn't take advantage of it, and I'm also not on the same dosage and it doesn't erase my meomory like that.
That was about 3 years ago. He does NOT like it if I'm not "there" during sex. Especially emotionally. He doesn't like "pity" sex. As this was a major issue when he used to me into having sex before.
Sisters, I need to hear your thoughts. Obviously my relationship with WH was really, really horrible & abusive. Were your WH's also abusive? Were they really mean like mine was? Did your WH treat you like a sex object? And then when you rebelled because their idea of sex was incompatible with yours, did they basically "dump" you but stay married to you?
NG - Here are my blunt answers. My story is different in some ways. No, my relationship with STBX was never horrible or abusive or mean until the last several years when the SA got out of control. He was the perfect guy for about 12 years (I met him when I was 22 or 23.) It was nearly impossible to get him mad. People would describe him as charming, easygoing, sweet.
He did not treat me like a sex object. He never let me know about his dark BDSM world until he was caught. Yet he was never really interested in sex with me. He kept the two worlds completely separate. I don't even know if he can have "vanilla sex" anymore. It just doesn't really work for him.
We did fight a lot through the years, especially since our first D-Day in 2005. He is scary in a fight - he digs in his heels, yells loudly, blameshifts, changes the subject, refuses to admit he could ever be wrong. He shows NO empathy during conflict or afterwards. For such an "easygoing" guy, he immediately goes into war mode in a fight. It's scary now that I have some distance from it. He would get in my face and scream at me. He's way bigger than me. He would literally tower over me and corner me and point his finger in my face. He would taunt me and basically challenge me to hit him.
It was a very sick dynamic, one that he learned from his own parents. I think it might be Narcissistic Rage. I'm fairly certain he's got NPD. Which means his SA can never be cured.
So that's my SA STBX story. Never mean on the surface. Never abusive on the surface. But during the fights, really scary. I am so glad he's gone out of my home. I could never have written this post six months ago. I was not admitting how bad the fights were, since he was so charming the rest of the time. I should have left him in 2005 after the first D-Day. He managed to fool every therapist (and me) - and he was just getting worse and worse during that time.
My question is, has anyone seen the movie on SA called Shame? It's new, haven't seen it yet myself- just the trailer.
Just a little aside on the "religious" aspects of 12 steps... My SAFWH is a scientist, raised traditional Christian, but not extremely strict. He always claimed he didn't "believe" in ANYTHING. He needed empirical proof. I was raised in a very laissez faire environment with lots of guilt :). I found a "Higher power," truly not in a church of any kind, as a little girl, hiding from the wrath of my nasty mother under my bed. It may only be a crutch, but it saved my sanity, and got me through my childhood.
Two months ago there was a crisis with my DS 1. He signed himself into an addiction program. The whole night, while we waited to see if DS would come home, continue to deny the problem, or finally accept our line in the sand, I prayed, in my non traditional way. But the odd thing is that Fwh prayed, too. And DS DID make the healthy choice- to get sober. Of course, in his still warped thinking way, FWH now sort of sees that as a cause and effect occurance, something I DONT believe in.
And, to compound the weirdness, I prayed to my abusive, alcoholic mother. "you'd better" do something, here, this is at least partly, your fault....DS, while in rehab, and still refusing to admit he was an addict, had a convulsion, alcohol withdrawal. That kicked him in the ass. Was it Grammy? Of course not, but it was surely SOME higher power.
As Einstein said " God is the sum total of all the laws of the universe, most of which we don't understand."
I still think, it works if you work it. Your higher power is whatever you choose it to be.
Btw, DS is 70 days sober...
I am not sure if my STBX was a sex addict or not...was hoping you guys could help me figure this out.
Facts: He looked at (and jacked off to)internet porn and the times I caught him, I told him how much it hurt me...he promised he would stop but the behavior would continue...I can't understand why someone would do that while their wife was upstairs and has let it be known that she would prefer he come to HER instead of the computer??? What makes them do that???
Anyway, I knew it went on but could not really tell you the frequency. I assumed he was just looking at pictures.
Last week I found an email confirming his subscription to a website dedicated to MARRIED PEOPLE FINDING OTHER MARRIED PEOPLE TO HAVE SEX WITH??? He was paying $40 a month for this.
I can't tell you how horrified and hurt I was. I found his profile and it literally almost made me throw up...and this goes back almost 3 years now...I discovered his affair 8/11 and this email was from 7/09...
Why did he do this? Why didn't he want to have sex with me??? I mean our marriage was not that bad - it was a little "stale" after 20 years but we didn't fight alot and I thought we were best friends... and we did have sex but not often...
Do they just completely separate sex and love???
And what's with the wanting other Married people??
Am currently getting divorced and ever since I found that email it's like DDay all over again...keep trying to pinpoint what I did wrong.
Any thoughts are appreciated - thanks SI family:)
Looking back, if I was to be honest with myself, my SAWH was often emotionally and verbally abusive. Especially when drinking, he would go into these blind rages. WH got sober a few different times throughout his life, and things would improve dramatically.
His drinking resumed with his cancer diagnosis in 2009. It was gradual at first, and then became more pronounced. He once again became verbally abusive. Of course, unknown to me, he was also a member of a cheater's website, and lining up f*ck buddies like it was he full-time job.
After Dday, we went through a hysterical bonding phase. He wanted me to wear sexy lingerie, but nothing too kinky. One day, he brought home a black fishnet skintight nightie. He asked me to try it on for him, which I did, and he told me I was the sexiest woman in the world.
Fast forward to a day or two later when I got into his credit card account. The black fishnet number was apparently his favorite, as he purchased several. This is still heartbreaking to me and difficult to talk about, but I wasn't the first to wear that nightie for him. Did I feel objectified after that discovery? Hell, ya! Plus, I am twenty years older than the others who modeled it for him, although I'm still slim and in pretty decent shape for my age.
But I LOATHE him for that. Just LOATHE him!!! God, that hurt so much! That pretty much ended our newly resumed sex life after that. BTW, my SAWH never slept with me when involved in his multiple sexual affairs. He pushed me firmly away. I guess he didn't want to cheat on his skanks! (Snort!)
Love and peace to all...
Edited to add: Welcome dumped & replaced!!! Read my profile for details, hon. I'll bet our WH's were members of the same, sick club! Hugs to you, sweetie...
[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 6:02 PM, April 15th (Sunday)]
I guess I will stop digging. I don't really want to know any more. I think you are right - I am sure there is more where that came from...mine moved in with OW in December and I am well on my way to being divorced so it's time to move on and leave the past in the past.
If anybody could answer my questions though on previous post I would appreciate that...don't know alot about this subject but I bet some of you have learned the answers (sadly)...WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE SEX ADDICTS???
Just looking for some kind of explanation so I can have some closure and maybe peace of mind? What did I do wrong here???
I havenít seen Shame. For a long time I wasnít emotionally prepared and now Iím not interested. Sorry I canít be of more help.
Congratulations on your sonís sobriety! Hoping for many, many, many more days to come..
@ Dumped & Replaced~
IMO, and itís only my *opinion*, but it sounds probable that your STBXWH has S.A. However, only a certified sex addiction therapist (CSAT) can make a definitive diagnosis. SAís often end up being able to respond only to very specific types of sexual stimulation, which typically escalates as the addiction progresses. For most SAís, the addiction is used to suppress their emotions. In other words, the addict uses orgasms to suppress their feelings. Not to get closer to people. So by extension, theyíre usually very very avoidant of sex with their partners- because itís usually too loaded with feelings. And they donít want to feel their feelings. Iím guessing here, but I think he wanted Ďno strings attachedí sex. No potential emotional connection. Limited interaction. Etc.
ETA- It isn't about us. It never was. This is the hardest thing for me to accept.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 7:24 AM, April 16th (Monday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
It's not even about sex.
It's about getting high, pure and simple...often stemming from some type of unresolved FOO issues.
Unfortunately, that doesn't make it any less hurtful for us: /
I am very excited to go back to school, and I am very grateful that at least school is fully funded...
But I guess I'm a worry wart. What if we can't find jobs to pay the rent? To pay for his therapy? What if we go through our savings and something else bad happens?
What if, what if, what if...
I know I need to let it go. Let go and let God so to speak. I know I need to admit that I am powerless over everything in my life.
And yet I am stressed.
I also don't want to move back in together and have this all happen again...
I am really scared of that.
And I don't want to have a marriage in which we are friends and nothing more. I don't want to have a husband who thinks sex with me is a bad thing.
I don't know - just stressing again.
Let it go. Let it go. Let it go...
As for me...well, ladies, the screaming is back. Standing over me, in my face, screaming at the top of his lungs. But this time, I didn't leave. I told HIM to get the hell out and come back when he calmed down. Maybe not a great idea, since he almost wrecked the car on his way out of the driveway, but I thought he would walk. Why was he screaming this time? Because I told him he doesn't care about me. And apparently the best way to prove me wrong is to act like a toddler on steroids. Oh--and I said he didn't care about me because every time I have told him how I feel for the last 3 days he has said I'm being stupid. Unless of course I feel great. Then everything is fine. But if I'm even a little bit unhappy, or feel like he's backed me into a corner, I'm just being stupid.
I'm leaving in two weeks for the summer. At first I was upset about it, because I didn't want to not see him for 4 months. Now....well, being around him is terrible, he's being a childish ass, and a break sounds awfully nice. And this is terrible, but a small part of me actually HOPES he cheats again while I'm gone. Because...well, then I could say I tried, damn it, and now I'm done. I'm aware technically I could do that now, but I feel like another nail in the coffin would really help.
Quick--someone say something encouraging....
Oh, and Ghost--How was today?
*latest* dday: January 26
Me: BS, 29
Him: f(?)WH, 30
R? I think...
You've been through enough that his coffin really doesn't need any more nails. Do whatever feels right for you.
Also, at least you are at a point where you can leave and let the results (and consequences) be on him instead of you. That's got to be progress, right?
As an update, I just got a text from WH saying that even though I was "baiting him" (his words for anytime I say something he doesn't like), he should have been the "bigger person." And then accused me of calling him from a fake number. Yeah. Like I care that much.
Also, the screaming is very concerning to me. That he could have that much rage at you is unbelievable. It also means he has some serios anger management issues. Be careful because that could quickly boil over and next time it could be you he gets physical with and not whatever he almost wrecked his car into.
As for me...well, ladies, the screaming is back. Standing over me, in my face, screaming at the top of his lungs. But this time, I didn't leave. I told HIM to get the hell out and come back when he calmed down. Maybe not a great idea, since he almost wrecked the car on his way out of the driveway, but I thought he would walk. Why was he screaming this time? Because I told him he doesn't care about me. And apparently the best way to prove me wrong is to act like a toddler on steroids.
This is abusive behavior. It's unacceptable in a marriage, completely separate from the SA.
The next time he does it, you should call the police. I'm saying this only because my husband has done this more than a few times, starting about a year before D-Day. I got so used to it that I didn't even tell the IC about it until I was about six months into therapy. She stopped everything, floored. She literally made me practice/show her how to dial 911 on my cell phone. She made me practice it until my hands stopped shaking.
I haven't had to dial 911 yet, but I know I can do it if necessary. I will not let him ever ever stand over me and scream in my face again.
I'm relieved you are going away for four months. I hope you can detach in that time and find some peace.
You should be able to give him an anal cavity search just because you feel like it and have him thank you for the priveledge.
As for the anger...well you're right. I get scared, and even though HE is convinced he will never hit me, I am not. He started anger management therapy recently, and I will say it may even have been progress that he left when I told him to leave. But that is one of the reasons I'm thankful to be leaving for the summer. I'm hoping in those months he'll learn ways to deal with his anger.
As a side note, therapist is pretty sure his intense rage is actually at himself, but since he doesn't know how to handle it, it gets directed at me. Doesn't change the fact that he needs to do something about it. But sometimes I do try to at least remind myself it isn't ME he's angry at.