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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 8
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know that voicing my opinion in favor of annulment may not be popular, but if it saves you from YEARS of heartache down the road, it would be a great option. How many of us wish we would have had that option when we first realized the scope of what we were dealing with?

I wish I had that option when I was in my twenties. But back then my H wasn't acting out that badly. (His work phone and computer were highly monitored.) But in his thirties, his SA started escalating. Several cycles of D-Days and false recoveries. Then in his forties his SA peaked to new dangerous highs.

I wish I had known then that he would never get better - that this addiction is progressive and just gets worse and worse for most people.

Now I fear my H won't reach his fifties.

Small victory for me today. I have not talked to WS since Monday.

(((WSIA))) It's a HUGE victory.

(((((GHOST))))) Just thinking of you tonight. Stay strong.

NG: Great news about the counselor. I might PM you and ask how you found her. Also, I'm thinking of you and the computer. I'm glad you have the advice of a trained therapist - I don't think any of us here on SI are experts on this sort of stuff. As for the yelling at you, yup, I feel similarly. It's the irritability and nastiness of my STBX addict husband that I don't miss. And his explosive temper when challenged.

Hath - I would love to hear more about your therapist's research. I don't believe in the old co-dependent model anymore, thanks to my IC. I'm also reading a pretty amazing book, "Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means, and it's based on the trauma-based model. They believe spouses are really victims of PTSD. They believe in treating the PTSD, and they explain the techniques for each stage of healing. The techniques are just so solid as opposed to some of the co-dependent stuff.

[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 8:29 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 1434 | Registered: Oct 2011
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I just went back and checked the book resources at the beginning of this thread, and up at the top was the book I wrote about in my last post. Sorry! You're probably all aware of it and have already read it a long time ago!


Posts: 1434 | Registered: Oct 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read it Hope, but you're right - it's a great one, the best one, the ONLY one that really seemed to get what *I* was going through.

For anyone else who hasn't read it yet, pick it up.

I'm back to the crying everyday situation. I think it's the first time I've really ever considered that he might not recover. I just thought...he's young, he's smart, he's lost his job, facing legal ramifications, he's hit rock bottom, he's gotten some of the best help available...how could he not recover? How could he not choose life over the addiction?

But at my NA meeting tonight, I heard about many addicts who were young, smart, successful, lost their jobs, went to jail, got help...and still relapsed for years, for decades before truly committing to recovery.

They talked about taking advantage of their loved ones, stealing their money, lying, manipulating ...anything to get their high. They said that when they were actively in their addiction, they didn't love anyone but the drug. Everyone else - family, friends, spouses, parents, children - were pawns in their quest to get high. They all said that while they wished they would have had support at that time, all outside support just further enabled their addiction until they chose recovery for themselves. They expressed regret over this but admitted that it was true.

Heavy, heavy stuff.

I almost hope that WS does something else to act out, so that maybe it will give me the strength to leave. For now, he is still in that gray area of, "well, he wasn't *physically* with anybody..."

But lying is lying, hiding is hiding...and escalation is escalation as long as he remains active in any part of the addiction.

And unfortunately, he learned some new tricks from the other addicts at Keystone. I'm convinced that prostitution is next...if it hasn't happened already. The other day he was telling me about how he learned to hire one online...um what?!?

Trying to detach. No contact again today. Tomorrow we've agreed to talk at 9pm.

(That's just how I'm feeling.)


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 9:55 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just got this email from WS:

Hey,

I miss you. I spent an hour on the computer tonight with dad in the room & took care of a few things.

My new e-mail is ready to go. You can delete the old account if you'd like.

Login: *********
Pass: *********

To delete account, go to settings--->my account--->account details--->delete account.

This is probably best, as this is the only way I could figure out to make it stop charging my credit card.

If it turns out I had that e-mail address linked to some important kind of online account (ebay, etc.) I'll just deal with it & start one from scratch.


I also changed my phone plan. I downgraded it so that instead of unlimited text messages it will allow 300 a month (incoming & outgoing both included) This should be more than plenty. I don't want to set it at 0 texts, because each text I get/send is 20 cents. I'm not planning on doing a lot of texting but I know that it will come up from time to time. My plan is now cheaper by 8 bucks. Every little bit helps.

I also deleted my myspace account (*******), although the e-mail said it may take up to 48 hours to remove.


I had a good day today - very good meeting tonight. I also finally got an e-mail back from [keystone roommate] with his new phone number & he said he's sober. I'm very much looking forward to talking with him tomorrow.

I miss you...but am thinking this space was good for both of us. It's helping you realize you can live without me & it's helping me to realize the seriousness of consequences if I don't get my ass in gear.

Tonight's 6pm meeting focused on the first step & I really needed to hear a lot of the stuff we talked about. I think I'm looking at recovery too much like a checklist, not an ongoing process. I really need to practice & be thinking about step #1 24/7. I'm also really glad that I moved lying/deception/omission/etc. into my inner circle. I've been doing well with maintaining my bottom lines & I think having that as a bottom line will really encourage me to live with honesty. I'd also like to be able to close my eyes at night & feel good about the person I am & the husband I am.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of thinking & just wanted to let you know that while no day is an "easy" day, I truly want recovery. I want to improve my quality of life. I want to continue to grow as a person. I want to make you happy. I want both of us to be proud of the husband that I am/will be.

I hope you've been doing well these past few days - I've been worried about you.

I love you & I can't wait to talk with you tomorrow night.

Love,

-WS

I guess no contact really should have included emails.


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((WS))) I am thinking of you today and sending you strength.

I agree the Barbara Steffens book is the best one, I am SO glad I read it early on, because the others were so NOT what I wanted to hear at the time (or probably now, LOL). the new version of the Mending the Shattered Heart book is available in e-form (the old one never was) and thumbing through it yesterday it looked like a great improvement over the old one. I will need to compare side by side to really explain.

I will need some guidance from you ladies that have been further in successful recovery soon. WH is doing well, but I would like some points of reference so I can see it for what it really is and not just a honeymoon phase. Again, we close on the house tomorrow so I don't have time to get into it right now but I want to be sure I am doing the right things by ME first and not jeopardizing his recovery second. I will probably post about it Sunday or Monday, things should have calmed down by then.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Jun 2011
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

***(((All SA Spouses)))***


WS wrote-

But at my NA meeting tonight, I heard about many addicts who were young, smart, successful, lost their jobs, went to jail, got help...and still relapsed for years, for decades before truly committing to recovery.
They talked about taking advantage of their loved ones, stealing their money, lying, manipulating ...anything to get their high. They said that when they were actively in their addiction, they didn't love anyone but the drug. Everyone else - family, friends, spouses, parents, children - were pawns in their quest to get high. They all said that while they wished they would have had support at that time, all outside support just further enabled their addiction until they chose recovery for themselves. They expressed regret over this but admitted that it was true.

I first read this on my phone while I was at work yesterday. Those words in the second paragraph are my life. I guess I was in a place to really ‘hear’ it this time, or I needed to be reminded of the addict’s outlook, or something. The Universe was speaking to me. However you want to put it. But I heard you, WS. I really, really needed to hear these words. To recognize that *this* is who SAWH is. Right now. Today. He is an unrepentant, acting out addict. All of his pretty actions, his pretty words, are designed to keep me off balance so he can continue his “secret life”. And it has always worked. He knows just when to change tactics to maintain his advantage. He reads me and my slightest emotional or mental change immediately. Sometimes it scares me, this ability of his.

This is what has been happening. As most of you know, I monitor SAWH’s work computer use from home. He knows this. Prior to changing positions within the company in 2010 he need remote access to his work desktop, this program has never been removed from our home computers. Since last summer he has been deleting history, which I managed. I know he has ‘secret’ emails, and I know which sites they’re on- I just don’t know his user name. I suspect he has another profile on match.com but I don’t know for sure and I haven’t looked for him there. It has come to my attention that He appears to have a particular woman in mind. I know he flirted with a woman at church, to the point where she nearly had a confrontation with him/us when I recently began attending (again) with them. He swears he didn’t lead her on and that nothing happened. I don’t believe him. He’s a proven liar.

Anyway. I go to church because I need to attend for *me*. To be part of the community that has nurtured me and our kids for the last 16+ years. Attending is part of my self-care. I will no longer allow him to chase me off. I’m still in the apartment with him because I can’t find a rental of my own for less than 50% or more of my take home & the section 8 list is closed for at least the next 3 years. I’m trapped. Temporarily. I’m looking for another job. But I have to thrive where I’m planted and not live in a future based on “what if he____”.

Just in the last few weeks he decided he wants new furniture & is trying to buy $2k worth. I don’t know if it’ll go through or not. This is an attempt by him to keep me happy, to prove how committed/in love (whatever) he is to *us*. Not that I believe him. It’s a blatant attempt to manipulate me. He’s actually called the marriage therapist I found six months ago & made an appointment for us to attend next Thursday evening. Meanwhile on the side he’s grooming another AP. And doing God knows what on the internet at work. I don’t know if the MC will work. I’m extremely wary both of the therapist and of SAWH. We shall see. We each have a 90 minute session individually and then we’ll have a joint session where she discusses a plan for us. . I intend to be very blunt with the therapist. I’m apprehensive for myself, for my emotional safety. And I will lay it all out in my individual session. And we shall see.

So anyway, this is what's going on in my world. Any and all feedback welcome.

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of his pretty actions, his pretty words, are designed to keep me off balance so he can continue his “secret life”. And it has always worked. He knows just when to change tactics to maintain his advantage. He reads me and my slightest emotional or mental change immediately. Sometimes it scares me, this ability of his.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. This is me, too. It's hard to know what's real anymore. Like the previous email from WS...it messes me up in the head big time. But on some rational level, I know that he is *only* doing what he needs so that I will not divorce him at this present moment. And unfortunately, at this very moment he is right.

***(((Sabina)))***

Have you thought about looking for a roommate?


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
NOTINKANSAS
♀ Member
Member # 31199
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
I haven’t posted here for a while but I’ve been checking in from time to time. I’m sending prayers and positive thoughts to all of you.
I really need some input from other spouses whose SA has chosen recovery. My H is like an entirely new human being. The one I always hoped would show up. We still have the occasional struggle on my triggery days because he still sometimes has a hard time looking closely at the damage he’s done and has a habit of getting defensive before finally breaking down and accepting responsibility and apologizing sincerely. Other than that, he is attentive and loving to me and the kids, remorseful, emotionally present, goes to counseling and his recovery group at church.

I am having an issue that is just kind of weird and hard for me to figure out and it’s definitely causing problems in our marriage and recovery. At the beginning of this awful mess my H just kind of told me whatever when I asked questions so we wouldn’t have to “go there.” FINALLY, after several months he broke down and “went there” and he told me what was going on in his addiction. It was tremendously helpful since my imagination had created these lovey-dovey exciting affair scenarios with gorgeous women. To hear him describe the women and the encounters and the disgust was an eye-opener. He told me how badly he wanted to stop what he was doing. How disgusted he felt after and sometimes during and how he used baby wipes to get the smell off of him (sorry if tmi). He told me there was no attraction. That he found people who were willing to do what he told them and he didnt care what they looked like or what they wore or any of that. It was a total control thing. He was sexually abused at a very young age by an older female relative and he basically grew up and turned the tables and became the aggressor and “made” people do things just as he was “made” to do things. What he did was an act of dominance and not for enjoyment or whatever.

The problem is that my brain is beginning to digest all of that (even though it makes little sense to me) but my heart keeps going back to picturing him ENJOYING this stuff. I hear his explanation as “I kept finding myself eating dog shit over and over and I just couldn’t stop even though it was disgusting and I didn't know how I got to the point of being back in the yard eating dog shit again”. My imagination starts going and I start after him and it’s like I WANT him to tell me that yes, these women were super hot and the sex was exciting and so on, but he maintains that it was as he described and gets upset with me. He even offerend to try to find pictures of the women so I could see for myself (no thanks) I am waiting for him to tell me that he got some enjoyment or SOMETHING out of what he did, but he says all it was, was a very momentary adrenaline rush from the dominance, he even went as far as saying it was the exact same feeling he experienced when in a fight or playing football and knocking the crap out of someone. As soon as that rush subsided, he was totally distraught and disgusted. He said he was never like “ooh, yeah, oh baby” none of that. He asked me what I want to hear. My therapist asked me what I need to hear. I don’t know! What I am doing? Why am I torturing myself like this? Why can’t I accept what he and our therapist are telling me? I keep pushing him to tell me things that will hurt me. He is telling me with tears running down his cheeks and a desperate look on his face that he didn’t enjoy being SA. He hated it and wanted to stop. He was disgusted by the women and the acts, but kept going back. (There’s where I’m like WHAT?!?) Has anyone else experienced this? It’s really dragging my recovery down, down, down…


I'm 33
He's 31
Recovering from SA
4 kids
D-Day 01-06-11 (Husband confessed sex 2x in 2009 with "trashy" girl from the ghetto)
D-Day 2 May 7, 2011 (confessed the rest of the betrayals)

Posts: 234 | Registered: Feb 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ Kansas:

What I am beginning to learn, from attending my NA meetings, is that addict logic is very different from normal person logic.

You are trying to understand addict logic using normal people logic - your brain is trying so hard to understand, to put it into normal people logic...the trouble is that it is impossible.

As best you can, accept it for what it is - illogical thinking as the result of a mental illness. Just as it is fruitless to ask a schizophrenic why they have hallucinations...we cannot really ask the addict why they act out the way they do. It is a malfunction of the brain.

But I absolutely understand the desire to try, the wanting to know, the desperation to understand...

I just get the impression that it is impossible to understand addict logic unless you are an addict, too.

It has been very interesting to attend these NA meetings...I recommend it to all, I think. SA meetings would be too hard, but NA meetings give you just enough insight into the addicted mind to be helpful without triggering all the sex sensitivities.


WS calls tonight...ahhhhh.


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, an odd experience today that I can't really share with anyone but you all. A colleague asked me on a date!

Made me feel very uncomfortable at first...then flattered...then uncomfortable again...then weird. Then I sort of thought about what it would be like to go on a date with someone other than WS...and then I freaked out...and then I thought about the "dates" WS had been on with other women while we were married...and I thought "How did he do that? How did every fiber in his being not go BLEH?!?"

But see Kansas...here, I am doing the exact same thing, trying to make sense out of nonsense.

I guess it was a good boost to my confidence. Obviously I declined, stating something very eloquently along the lines of, "Uhh..buh..uhh..duh...no...no, I don't think so. I've not decided to get divorced yet."

Then I turned red and went and hid in my classroom. Later, the colleague sent me an email apologizing for rushing things but that the offer stood if and when I was ready.

My reaction to the email? "It's creepy that he would pursue me when I am obviously so vulnerable. He must be a sex addict..."

Oh, paranoia. My perception of the world has been permanently altered. What a weird, weird woman I am turning out to be...

Maybe I should tell WS about this tonight? No, no...I am trying very hard not to tell him anything at all...anything I say can be used to manipulate me. Tonight needs to be about listening to him and getting the best sense I can of how he is doing in his "recovery."


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
Ghostwalker
♀ Member
Member # 31991
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Sabrina))), I'm so sorry you're dealing with more crap. It just isn't fair what this man continues to put you through. I pray you will find a solution to get you out.

(((WS))) I hope your phone call goes well tonight. I know you are in a bad place, but it sounds like the meetings are helping you. I know you're not ready to date (hell, no) - but hey girl, it just proves life will go on when and if you're ready.

(((Kansas))) I am so sorry you are plagued by these horrible mind movies. It sounds like your WH is doing the work, so try to look forward and not back. I know how difficult this is...

Talk about manipulation -- after my SAWH barraged me with sweet phone calls, emails, flowers and cards, he's gone silent. I (foolishly) sent him an email last night thanking him for the "gestures", but reminding him, in light of his recent deceptions and behavior (a penis shot?), I trusted him LESS, not more. He emailed back a terse, snarky comment. So that is that. I will try mightily to have no further contact with him.

I suspect he is enjoying his new bachelor pad. Why can't he just let me go - and embrace his dark side? Why do they want both???? I am just too tired to deal with anymore of this shit...

[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 7:01 PM, March 1st (Thursday)]


This is the Hour of Lead --
Remembered, if outlived,
As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow --
First -- Chill -- then Stupor -- then the letting go --

Posts: 1089 | Registered: Apr 2011
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina,

Keep moving in a direction, friend. You know who he is, even though he tries to lie and gaslight you. You know he is a SA and probably even a polyaddict at this point, even if he denies it.

It would be ok for you to say to him that you won't see the MC and that he needs to be in recovery for SA before you would even consider MC. I don't see this as manipulation or an ultimatum on your part, but a boundary for your own safety. I am worried that a MC that is not trained in dealing with SA is going to be manipulated by him and he is just going to try to use the MC against you. As someone living with an active addict, and knowing what you have shared with us here, you have been physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by this man. Addicts are cunning and manipulative and I worry about your emotional well being. I would really reconsider even going!!!

Please continue self care and seeking support. Big HUGS!!! You are worth it!


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 7:27 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Apologies for all the posts. I am sitting here, reading threads and drinking a beer AKA working up my nerve for when WS calls. I know I said I would curb the drinking...I'm limiting myself to one.

Ghost, I'm glad you posted. I have been wondering about you so much. Your questions:

Why can't he just let me go - and embrace his dark side? Why do they want both????

I wonder them every day. It's hard for me to understand how they can love us if they do the things they do. And if they don't love us, why do they want to stay with us at all? Are they masochists? Do they like to feel guilty? Are they sadists? Do they like to inflict pain? Do they love us? Is what they refer to as "love" anywhere close to what we call "love"? Or is sex for them so void of emotional attachment that well...they just don't see why the two (marriage and the addiction) can't coincide?

I just don't know. But I do wonder the same things. Every day. Proud of you for staying strong, especially on your birthday. That must have been almost impossibly difficult - you are a very strong woman.

Love to you Ghost!


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ghostwalker,

I agree that for now NC is the way to go. An active addict will take any kind gesture that you might make that you would make toward any other human being and twist it.

Why can't he just let me go - and embrace his dark side? Why do they want both???

As for the answer to this question, addicts are trying to keep their world intact. They enjoy the challenge of juggling a secret life and maintaining respectability to the outside world. It is a game. And appearances are very important to the SA. It is no surprise that most of our spouses are intelligent and have careers and educations. They want to keep that part of their life compartmentalized and secret. We are part of their facade. They cannot fail. My H always used to say to others that we would never get divorced. Little did he know that I was always planning on leaving him when the kids were grown. We play a part (unintentionally) in their dysfunctional life. It takes some of the fun and excitement out of it, when we leave and destroy that image. I think the old addict H of mine enjoyed the game he played with me, even though it was abusive, the cycle fed his addiction, and it was part of the ritual and his justifications for acting out.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS,

Listen to your gut...it is telling you something VERY important right now!

No, no...I am trying very hard not to tell him anything at all...anything I say can be used to manipulate me. Tonight needs to be about listening to him and getting the best sense I can of how he is doing in his "recovery."

Even that email he sent you reeked of manipulation! I really hope your phone call goes well tonight. I think you need to consider extending your NC with him to gain some clarity. Having to drink to relax yourself before talking to him is also a sign. I am NOT anti-alcohol, but I realize that for me (and it looks like you have identified that alcohol/pain pills are a dysfunctional coping mechanism) alcohol has been something I have used inappropriately at times.

It has been very interesting to attend these NA meetings...I recommend it to all, I think. SA meetings would be too hard, but NA meetings give you just enough insight into the addicted mind to be helpful without triggering all the sex sensitivities.

I understand wanting to understand addiction and the mindset of an addict and how that could be of use to you, but you really need to seek out IRL support of a CSAT and S-Anon. S-Anon is the more appropriate place for you to go. I understand that you are trying to avoid the fact that he is a SA by not attending S-Anon, but that is not aiding your recovery, either. And honestly, I am not sure why the NA group would be ok with you attending if you are not an addict yourself. If you really wanted to attend a group other than S-Anon, Al-Anon or N-Anon would be more appropriate. They are geared towards living with an addict and recovering from the affects of the addicts actions on YOU.

As for the colleague asking you out, he may have been premature and inappropriate, but that doesn't mean he is a SA. I think it is easy to be paranoid that every man is one, but I know that isn't true. And it is ok to be flattered that someone would find you attractive...I am sure you are! I know that I had so many years where I didn't feel that my H found me attractive and that was so hurtful to my self-esteem that when any man paid me attention it was either suspicious to me or I soaked it up. It is ok to feel flattered, and your actions were completely appropriate. Even if you get your marriage annulled or you divorce, you should take time to heal before you date, and I am sure you already know that.

PLEASE...take a break from your WH and focus on YOU. Please do what you can to heal and become healthier and happier. Seek out IRL support from a 12 step group for family members and a CSAT.

Good luck again with the phone call.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can't he just let me go - and embrace his dark side? Why do they want both????

I asked my fWH the exact same thing. His answer was that although he was deep in his addiction, part of his brain knew that home, I, and the boys represented reality, and goodness, and was where he really wanted to be. So he hung on to it. He recognized that the other life was fantasy, and sordid, and ugly.

Although I can't look back without bitterness, I do remember that there clearly were things he did to show that he loved us and appreciated us. He was sweet and kind much of the time. I certainly would not have stayed otherwise. WS, your description of the addiction brain is VERY accurate, IMHO.

But the sad truth remains, that staying with an active addict, is crazy making. They are charming, manipulative, and will lie about the rain while you are standing there getting soaked.

Recovery MUST be about you. About not being part of their illness, about putting yourself first, about being treated with respect and NOT allowing anything less.

Love and strength to all of you...


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2933 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
Ghostwalker
♀ Member
Member # 31991
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TMY ~ thank you. I appreciate your advise and hard earned wisdom. My SAWH is a very respected attorney in our town. And I am a well-respected woman and wife. I do understand people would be shocked at who he's become - and staying with me will keep his respectability intact. He can't have both lives, I will not allow it, but it still hurts me deeply.

WS ~ thank you, hon. My birthday was very difficult, but I look at it this way. Last year, I was blissfully ignorant of SAWH activities. This year, I am older and wiser. Honestly, I miss my old life with him (pre-discovery), but I will not, and cannot, look the other way, like so many other wives I know. I value myself too much. Please keep us posted on your conversation with your WH tonight. Fingers crossed, you find some peace.

Hugs and strength to all...

Edited to add - Kat, we cross posted. Thank you for your input, sweetie. I do value your advise and experience.

[This message edited by Ghostwalker at 8:00 PM, March 1st (Thursday)]


This is the Hour of Lead --
Remembered, if outlived,
As Freezing persons, recollect the Snow --
First -- Chill -- then Stupor -- then the letting go --

Posts: 1089 | Registered: Apr 2011
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NOTINKANSAS,

This is all still pretty new to you. The mind movies and triggers don't just go away. It takes a LOT of time. Even with a remorseful spouse who is working on recovery, it takes a lot of time. The first 2 years I felt like he was leaps and bounds ahead of me in recovery. Of course, he worked on it a lot harder than I did. The first year especially, I dragged my feet. Why should I have to work on recovery? This was HIS problem. About 9 months in, I began attending S-Anon. The first 6 months of attending I didn't even start working the steps. And it has only been in the last year that I have begun working on my own FOO issues.

I had a lot of triggers to work through, too. There were times (and once in awhile it still happens) where the thoughts of things he did would flash into my mind, and it was so hard to reconcile that I stayed with him. My H did some really sick things, and it was hard not to have those mind movies. I used to especially have a hard time going out in public with him, always wondering who he was scanning and what he was imagining. I think sometimes when we have that full disclosure or the things we have discovered on our own through the course of the years, it is hard to get that stuff out of our heads.

Give yourself time and be gentle to yourself. Keep working on things and hopefully the triggers will subside. I didn't fully recommit back to our marriage until a year ago. I had to work through things, too.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wanted to pop on and thank each and every one of you for your frank and candid posts. You are already answering my questions and I haven't even asked them yet. I am so grateful to have you all for info and support.

NotinKansas, I think WS is absolutely right you can't use normal logic to understand addict logic. And I've had the misfortune of seeing the pix to prove what you've described, and it doesn't help at all. The problem with the healing cycle for the addict is it often makes it worse for the spouse, and it is often at the opposite of our highs/lows in the cycle. And they are often not equipped to help US substantially until they get past a certain point (or do they ever, IDK?) thus the need for us to focus on ourselves. It sucks.

I am thinking of all of you and holding you in the LIGHT. Hopefully next week I can contribute more.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1410 | Registered: Jun 2011
WS is an Addict
♀ Member
Member # 34223
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, March 2nd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well...phone call went I suppose. I did a good job of listening and remaining detached, talking very little about myself and hardly anything at all about my feelings other than that I was feeling stronger and more confident. WS had a lot to say, but it was all stuff I *wanted* to hear. I said as much to him. I said that while I *hoped* what he was saying was true, I was not really putting too much weight into since he often tells me what I *want* to hear. Conversation lasted 4 hours...that is really too long. But I let him talk, and I listened and responded politely. He said he was really scared that I preferred not talking to him, that I didn't miss him. I told him that I did enjoy being free from the stress of wondering whether every word he said was a lie, and while I did not *miss* him the past few days per se, I did think of him and hoped he was doing well. I told him that it was his life, his journey, and he had a lot of decisions to make that needed to be made for himself. I said that obviously I hoped he made *certain* decisions, but that ultimately it was out of my control. We've agreed to NC until next Monday.

Baby steps...

As for why I attend NA meetings...it is not because I do not want to admit WS is an SA. It is just that I live in the middle of nowhere, and the only addiction meetings available are NA. (Meth is a huge problem in this area.) There are not even any -anon groups. (Ironically, there used to be an SA/S-Anon group 30 minutes away, but when I called to ask about meeting times, I was told they have disbanded.) I agree that it is not ideal, but I am grateful that they let me sit in. It is an "open" meeting, which means it is open to the general public in addition to NA addicts. They are aware that I am a spouse of an addict and are very loving and supporting. I am not there to judge. We are all just broken people trying to heal from addiction, and I find 95% of what they say relates to my situation. Addiction is addiction, I have concluded. Is it ideal? No. Is it helpful and healing? Tremendously so. It gives me great empathy for what WS is experiencing WHILE giving me a very clear, untainted, raw view of the addicted brain - it is helping me to see addiction from a real but rational perspective. And I do think I would still recommend it to other SA spouses...in addition to the other SA-specific resources. I probably would never have thought to do it, and stayed on my lonely island of having no resources at all (since there are no SA/S-Anon/CSATS for 3 hours in any direction)...except while WS was at Keystone he mentioned that they often went to NA and AA meetings. He particularly identified with the NA meetings, even though he is not NA. I guess that's why I thought it was okay to check it out. And I am so glad that I did. Addiction really is addiction. It is a brain disease. It is a personal disease. It is a family disease. I am so grateful for my NA group, and they tell me they are grateful for me, too. As long as I am there in the spirit of healing, I think it is a very good thing.


DDay for physical infidelities: 12/14/11
Me: 30 Him: 29 (SA - diagnosed 1/2/2012)
Married 4 years, Together 10 years
Reconciling, as long as he remains active in his recovery.

Posts: 361 | Registered: Dec 2011
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