Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
like us on facebook
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: antidave (45740)

I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Sexual Abuse Survivors/Spouses - Part II
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Saying "no" has truly liberated me. I am firm and forward and embody the word "no" like I never did before.

I'm a believer that a good, strong, firm, "No." is maybe the most powerful word in our emotional/social arsenal, but also the one that many people are most hesitant to use.


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2261 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
caspers1wish
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a believer that a good, strong, firm, "No." is maybe the most powerful word in our emotional/social arsenal, but also the one that many people are most hesitant to use.

Often because when it is used, it's blatantly ignored, and we're forced to do it no matter what, and in the case of CSA, that is learned at a very early age, for me, at least 3 or 4 years old. It was a lot easier to give in and mask it as acceptance, than face the horrid reality that I was utterly and completely helpless. Fighting and losing felt like it cost more than just accepting I had lost from the get go. When your boundaries are crossed and you can do nothing about it, it stands to reason that it's as if your boundaries don't matter, or even exist.

The problem with that manifests in all sorts of ways. I couldn't get out of situations if men flirted inappropriately. I couldn't sense or respond appropriately to danger. I ignored my gut. My instinct to self-protect was seriously compromised.

It's really only been a couple of years that I've started to feel comfortable telling people "no" and not feeling guilty or allow others to guilt me.


Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 805 | Registered: Jun 2010
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

than face the horrid reality that I was utterly and completely helpless. Fighting and losing felt like it cost more than just accepting I had lost from the get go. When your boundaries are crossed and you can do nothing about it, it stands to reason that it's as if your boundaries don't matter, or even exist.

So I guess as someone who is not a survivor of CSA (my WW is), how does this manifest itself in the infidelity sense? In my WW's case for example, I understand the poor development of boundaries, certainly. But her POSOM was not really the predatory type. My wife did all the heavy lifting, affair-wise. He didn't really pursue her, though he probably was emotionally manipulative to a degree.


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2261 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was coming to ask a question, something I'm struggling with: has anyone else here, any other survivors, dealt with clutter and having too much stuff?

I've been trying to get rid of my stuff - I have at least a hundred boxes of crap in our building's basement - but I feel just weighed down. I wonder sometimes if I see the stuff as "padding". Like how, when I was a teen (and beginning to again now) I wore an excessive amount of baggy clothes to hide my body. Especially because of how uncomfortable my godmother made/makes me.

But a total lack of motivation to get up, even though I desperately want to get rid of all the stuff. Like a horrible cycle that feeds the depression. I don't know if I'm making sense...

So I guess as someone who is not a survivor of CSA (my WW is), how does this manifest itself in the infidelity sense? In my WW's case for example, I understand the poor development of boundaries, certainly.

Hmm. I'm not sure if I'm answering this question right, but I'll give it a shot.

My H and I are in a mad-hatter situation as well, and I believe he also is a survivor (we both are). In his case, I wonder if part of it is that feeling single and lacking emotional attachment to others was a way of protecting himself. I know that this comes and goes for me as well. Wanting to have connection, yet afraid of intimacy, betrayal, abuse... Therefore for too long, maintaining poor boundaries, saying yes to the wrong things and no to the healthy things we should be saying yes to...

In our mad-hatter situation and the one before, I used my BS status as an excuse. A lie I told myself both times was: my partner has already cheated, so it won't matter if I cross this line... I used the BS status as an excuse to cross the line - I was already broken. In the first case, I had a ONS and was doing it in an EXTREMELY misguided attempt to feel good about myself and get some of my self-esteem back (like I said, very stupid). The second time, this round with my H, wasn't about intimacy or pleasure at all, it was about not being alone while suffering.

The healthy thing to do, when confronted with these situations (first guy cheating, then in next relationship my H cheating), would have been to recognize the pain, take a long time to heal, try to figure out if the relationship with this person was healthy, and use it as a catalyst to understand that *I* wasn't healthy... I chose that instead, and I'll carry that with me forever.

This day, my way of handling it is different. I am aware that sexual abuse is no excuse for making unhealthy choices. So the right thing to do, instead of making those unhealthy choices, is to address the abuse, seek out supportive help (like IC, a support group, etc), identify healthy goals - who do I want to be and where do I want to go? - and, unfortunately, feel this pain. It hurts. It sucks. It feels like being in hell some days.

It's good to have goals. If I wake up one morning feeling doubts and not sure what the next healthy step is, I do nothing. I wait for my sanity to come back before I make a decision. Or I find someone who I identified as a healthy person in my saner moments and reach out to them. Sometimes that's the IC. Sometimes that's here on SI. Sometimes that's a small group of IRL female friends who have known me for years, who I recently began to open up to...

Who is your wife's network of support?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Who is your wife's network of support?

You're talking to him. No one in her family knows about it, and she just started IC a week ago. A few friends know, but it's sort of weird...when she starts to feel comfortable around new friends, all the bad shit that's happened to her is the stuff that comes pouring out. She doesn't so much form emotional attachments to people (at least in my opinion) in the healthiest ways. That's sort of how the emotional 'bonding' happened between her and POSOM...both pouring out their various insecurities and issues and reassuring each other. She thought she could 'fix' him, he thought she was running away from a bad marriage.


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2261 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

when she starts to feel comfortable around new friends, all the bad shit that's happened to her is the stuff that comes pouring out.

Yeah. If the abuse is so much of her reality, then she might try to seek bonds through it, or being comforted. Traumatic bonding. It's a way (not always a healthy one) to seek intimacy; it's also a way of showing the worst of yourself (we carry a lot of shame) as a way of testing if people can withstand you at your worst, knowing the "real" (read: abused) you.

I hope that her IC can help her to explore a new identity of herself - one in which she can see herself as a healthy person. Is it possible that she sees herself as identified by her abuse, and has a hard time seeing her good qualities?


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I should add... I used to do that as well, oversharing with new friends (mind you, this was while I was single, long before I met H). When I got into a relationship with H, there were times when I would try to share with him and he would check out... In retrospect, it might have been because it made him feel uncomfortable. I felt like those kinds of things were now inappropriate to be discussing with people outside of my relationship/marriage. I'm now discussing some of it with female friends with whom I already have longterm healthy friendships, as well as making sure that it's not all-consuming. IC really helped... but you have to be careful to find the right IC. It should be someone who makes your wife feel safe. Sadly, not all of them are that way.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
ladypersephone
♀ Member
Member # 38638
Question  Posted: 10:34 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Plainsgirl,

your initial sexual contact with your AP is date rape. "no" means no, it doesn't matter what situation you were in, how drunk, how quietly you said it, I don't not know all the details of the extent of the relationship before the initial sexual contact occurred. Or what happened after. But what you are describing is date rape.

This has been a major point of contention between me and BS. You are totally right, and I have been seeing a therapist about it. My BS also turned me in to my work place saying I had an "inappropriate relationship" but they too called it rape. My H also called it rape at one time... until he just didn't anymore.

My boundaries were skewed. After the initial assault, he apologized and I actually believed it. Instead of telling someone, I met with him for coffee. We talked a lot and text messaged. I was not romantic though. We were mostly talking about common interests-- friendly stuff. Then one night I gave him a ride home, I was drunk and I gave in to sex. I was horrified that it happened. I told him I didn't want to have sex with him!!

My H was put off by all the contact I had with the OM. He just couldn't understand. My IC and I tried to explain to him that my CSA was a major reason I had a hard time telling anyone and had continued contact. So my struggle is finding out where I stand. Am I an adulterer or a second time rape survivor?

I joined a rape support forum... they of course say it was rape. Joined this forum for a different perspective. In fact, I recognized your screen name and saw another response you had to one of my posts. I appreciate input.

[This message edited by ladypersephone at 7:13 AM, March 8th (Friday)]


WW (Me) 33 (MH)
BS/RA (him) 36 (MH)

Formerly fiercely in love.
Currently on desolation row...


Posts: 55 | Registered: Mar 2013
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First post on this thread and hoping to get some answers. Complicated sitch as they all are but I think I'm in the right place. I've never posted a profile for a multitude of reasons, but primarily cause I don't have a clue where to begin.

Hi guys, I'm 5454Real, a genuine dyed in the wool KISA. My username is my history. 5 long term relationships, 5 women who were unfaithful, for real. Obviously my picker is aligned to finding women who I could help. All broken, none that I could see. I have my own FOO issues obviously, but this is not the right forum for them. I am here seeking help for my WW.

I brought up my history for a reason. I know IC is needed. One small problem, number four in my history is a woman who I helped through grad school to get her MSW and liscence to practice councilling. Guess who the only insurance approved provider is?(Can't make this stuff up). So we are kind of stuck. Finances prohibit self pay, have you checked the rates? Anyway, hoping you guys can help. Forgive the rambling.

After the affair and things were not totally jumbled, we began to discuss the why's. I ran into roadblock after roadblock of 'I can't remember/I don't knows'. Being on this site, of course I didn't believe. Things got extremely tense for awhile. I kept asking/watching. She would obviously become frustrated and angry, but not with me, herself. The only clue I had to go on was that she had a history with the OM from an early age. I asked.....

At the latest, 13! Could be earlier she doesn't remember how old she was when she lost her virginity to the OM's best friend even earlier. He told her she would be pretty if she only lost a little weight, she decided to show him how pretty she was. She has very few memories of her childhood. However one of them is her mother stopping her uncle from touching her inappropriately in a car when she was between 4 and 6.

Background on the parents. She has no memory of either one directly telling her that they loved her. In the time we have been together, I can't claim to have seen that either. More of a casual aquaintance type relationship. Her tears when her father died lasted maybe a day and a half.

She remembers no cufews, no rules, no love. The only person that ever told her that her dad loved her was her dads suspected AP. The woman next door, where he stopped for 'a beer' every night before coming home. I never put two and two together, just thought that it was a private thing for her family to not express emotions.

Anyway, the OM was 17 at the time they began thier 'relationship'. WW can't/won't admit/say abuse.

By the time she was 14 she had participated in a threesome w/OM and the aforementioned BF of his. They would use her at thier leisure and she thought it was affection/love. At 15ish she moved in with the man who lived across the street. No protest from mom or dad. By 16 she was with a 36 yr old for the summer touring with a band. By fall with a 26 yr old going to construction sites for weeks on end.

At 17, engaged to a 26 yr old and pregnant and married by 18. Somehow graduated HS. By her best memory 7-8 different older men in that span.

1st marriage obviously failed. Abusive alcoholic XH. Threatened suicide in front of the kids at christmas with a gun to his head as a final straw.

Met her a year and a half after the D. I was impressed with a woman who had achieved what she had in spite of the abusive marriage. I had no clue as to what FOO were. Heck its the first name of a band right?

She was supervising 20 people. One of her job responsibilities was teaching ethics. She made the local paper for her weight loss(100lbs plus). She was competeing in amateur body building competitions. But most of all, was very anti-infidelity. Absolute dealbreaker. In premarital counseling, it even caused an issue when my response was that in certain cases it might be forgiveable. Given my history, oh the wonders of irony. How little I knew.

Little more history on me, I won custody of my son from #3. XW fought thru state supreme court. I raised him alone for 7 yrs(#4 never moved in, waiting for marriage), got used to and even liked cooking and cleaning.

WW has cooked maybe 10 suppers in 10 years, I do the dishes and laundry. Split the rest. Treated her like a queen, expected to be treated like a king in return and was until the birth of our son. We were active in society and sports. Each had our own hobbies. The c-section changed that.

I travel during the days, sometimes late. Always made sure thre was a premade meal ready to reheat if I was going to be late. After the birth of our son, after the breastfeeding was done, I assumed all the late night feedings as well. Loved it, great bonding time. anyway, it seems that the c-section did something. Things began to change.

3 knee surgeries, 2 shoulder surgeries 2 spine surgeries and a nerve burn over the next 6 years. I was no longer the king, but woe betide me if I didn't continue to treat her like a queen. The treatment had become an expectation and not the gift as I was offering it. Sex life died. Twice a month, maybe and never without a fight(romantic,not).

I turned to drink, she retreated even farther. Would rarely come out of her room. Scrip for depression that only seemed to make it worse. She regained all the weight. Thought it made her less than attractive. Didn't understand that I married her, not the shell she inhabits. Tried to support her in everything. Got pushed even further away.

Hope arrives in the form of the nerve burn. Had been on half days due to pain from spine surgeries. Relief at last. Begins to work out, things are looking better than they had in years. Back to work full time!

Devestation, I awake Saturday morning to her getting ready for 'work to catch up' at 630 am. (I had gotten drunk the night before). Told her have a good day and I love you. Text at 930 saying "Sorry, I have left to take some time by myself to sort things out". I actually cheerfully texted back to take her time, look forward to you coming home.

330 SD comes over worried that she can't reach her mom. We all start texting and calling frantically getting no responses. Finally get one back saying 'don't worry, I'm safe'. Daughter digs deeper, finds she's at another mans house. Ive never heard of him, but the claim is "we're just friends".

Been down this road, several calls to her friends and family who all contact her and the denials continue. I give up at 830 after SD told her she was having an affair and she wanted nothing to do with her and the response was along the lines of "I'm sorry you feel that way". SS texts her at 1030 and says "I hope you're happy with what you've caused". And the reply was "that wasn't my intention". 1130 I get a text that shes coming home.

Welcomed her home with open arms at 230 am and fed her. Hoped for something other than what it was, but got a full admission over the next 3 days.

POSOM frickin pedophile had contacted her the day before the nerve burn through FB. Sexting within 36 hrs. Phone sex within 72. 3 days before she went to him he told her she was the one he should have married. All of this occurred within 12 days.

Questions obviously are endless. Is memory loss/blockage common? Why go back to an abuser? She is literally devestated and doesn't understand herself. What was she looking for? What was the sudden change in demeanor? And of course the big one, how likely is a recurrence? Hell, is this the right forum?

Thanks in advance to anyone who responds, and quite honestly, given the length of the missive I won't be too suprised if it's too much. Sorry for the length. Just felt good to get out.

Strength to all the survivors and thier SO's.


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3170 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Often because when it is used, it's blatantly ignored, and we're forced to do it no matter what, and in the case of CSA, that is learned at a very early age

Same.

I'm struggling with flashbacks. And I feel so angry with myself. My godmother wouldn't stop running her hands across my body. It didn't matter when I actually said no - I wish I had yelled it at her the first time! But it didn't matter, she played dumb and then tried it again next week... and next... and next, until I stopped going over there. So then she just guilt-tripped me over the phone. We live with her now, since we don't have our ducks lined up and have nowhere to go (yet). I've gotten very good at keeping the door to our room closed, but I feel the anxiety and violation every time I hear her voice. No doesn't matter to her. No doesn't matter to any of them. They feel their sick "needs" and will do it to self-soothe and think that they "have the right" and it's "not so bad". Bastards.

And when you fight back, sometimes you get punished for it. But better to fight back and be safe than to take it silently. Find your anger.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, March 7th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why go back to an abuser?

I can relate. The OM in my current relationship/marriage was my abusive ex-FWB. In my circumstances, I was terrified of actually having to have sexual contact with him, which is why I stopped. But why? One thought that comes immediately to mind is self-hatred. Also, self-destruction. I thought I deserved to be hurt. Extremely low self-esteem, but in this case, not going to him to raise it; going to him to confirm it. Happened at a time when I thought H (then-BF) was going to break up with me (he did). I wanted to hurt worse than I already was.

So, how do you turn that around while also accepting that you cheated on your BS? Seems like processing both the A and also the initial abuse as well. And that can be confusing, because we're supposed to be taking responsibility for cheating and breaking our spouse's heart... while also trying to look at the abuse and forgive ourselves for holding the abuse as evidence that we're dirty, for hating ourselves because of the abuse? While looking at and denouncing the original abuse? That must be hard on the BS, if it feels like the focus goes to the abuse but then the affair and the BS's pain must not be pushed aside... we both need a safe place for healing, and it's important that the BS's healing as the betrayed isn't overshadowed. Balancing... That's why IC is so important. Healing takes a long time on all counts. The timeline says 2-5 years for infidelity... I wonder if it's similar for sexual abuse, once the supportive exploration begins? It could be a goal to get healthy again together and help each other through healing.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 12:37 AM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks SH, I get the low self esteem angle. Given everything going on with her health issues, I really do. I also kind of understand the older men aspect of them filling a need for attention when she was a child. Sex was all she had to use to get any kind of attention and she did.

But, she hadn't even talked to the guy in almost 25 years. 13 days to get her to abandon everything she had worked for? Ignore not only me(yes, I understand she may have been getting away from me) but her children and grandchild for a guy that used her as a fuck toy? Shared her? She was possibly wanting to hurt herself or confirm her own low image?

Gonna have to chew on those for awhile. This all sucks.

You are absolutely correct in that somehow simultaneous healing needs to occur. While I may understand the problem, it certainly doesn't lessen the pain. The complete and utter abandonment is a tough nut to get past.

Thanks for the insight!


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3170 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 2:10 AM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But, she hadn't even talked to the guy in almost 25 years. 13 days to get her to abandon everything she had worked for? Ignore not only me(yes, I understand she may have been getting away from me) but her children and grandchild for a guy that used her as a fuck toy? Shared her? She was possibly wanting to hurt herself or confirm her own low image?

Gonna have to chew on those for awhile. This all sucks.

Yes, it does all suck very, very much.

I don't know if her feelings were similar to mine or not, with feeling self-destructive. Has she given you transparency to see all of their correspondences, including the one the day before the nerve burn? What was her tone? Could there have been approval she was seeking? Had she shut down the abuse and only sought the boost? Or could there have been a trigger word or phrase in his message to her that made her vulnerable to acting out?

It is important that she takes responsibility for making those choices. If you both are trying to learn the story, those might be some questions to ask. There was someone I knew once a long time ago (unfortunately, my mother's OW), and while I hated her, there were some pretty horrible things she went through as a kid. One was that her parents, particularly her mother, were part of a cult, and she was badly abused and programmed or brainwashed (not sure the right term) to believe that she had to die at age 25. So when 25 came around, she began suffering symptoms and then began to remember the abuse. So I know that some types of abuse can leave mental cues behind that trigger things. I don't know if this happened in your wife's case, but I think all possibilities are worth mentioning.

I wish the OW had chosen a better way to handle her problems rather than have an affair, in her mid-30s, with my mother and break my stepmother's heart and rip apart my family. I really wish she had stayed away. Had she chosen to examine those issues and seek out the proper support (and if my mother had had better boundaries), maybe it wouldn't have happened at all. Hopefully she has now, so that she'll never be anyone's OW ever again, and be a healthier person for her children. Knowing the details I know now of her A with my mother, it sounds like they reenacted some things through SM. My mother claims they were safe; I doubt it was really good for either of them, sexual abuse survivors that they both were. I really do wonder about the self-punishment piece of that...

In my case, part of my healing has been, while taking responsibility for my poor choices, to also confront my overwhelming self-hatred, which at the moment is manifesting in my depression. I've made it a personal goal to not give up healing until I get stronger - not only for my son but also just for myself - and healthier, so I'll be a healthier person in this world. Letting myself drown in self-hatred would be selfish; so while it's OK to have a hard day, it's not OK to give up.

Just seeing you here trying to understand, 545... you're a good person, and your wife is very fortunate to have your support as she struggles through these issues. I hope she will be able to give you what you need and support you through your healing from her betrayal, and you two will emerge an even stronger team.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
caspers1wish
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ FacePunched

So I guess as someone who is not a survivor of CSA (my WW is), how does this manifest itself in the infidelity sense? In my WW's case for example, I understand the poor development of boundaries, certainly. But her POSOM was not really the predatory type. My wife did all the heavy lifting, affair-wise. He didn't really pursue her, though he probably was emotionally manipulative to a degree.

For many CSA survivors, there is a drive to recreate the abuse. For me, I was often trying to recreate the abuse to achieve a different outcome, as if I could ever change the past. Sometimes, being the aggressor, in our minds, offsets being the victim. In order to not be victimized, we pursue, but, deep down, I knew that I was then just victimizing myself. It was still recreating negative emotional aspects of the abuse that survivors replay quite a bit.

when she starts to feel comfortable around new friends, all the bad shit that's happened to her is the stuff that comes pouring out. She doesn't so much form emotional attachments to people

Friends whom become close friends, not just acquaintances, I certainly tell them about my abuse, it is very discretionary than before. Silence is deadly. Holding this shit in, keeping our abuser's secrets, all part of the shame cycle. I've done the lies of omission, changing subjects, redirecting attention away from myself, so that I don't have to reveal this secret about myself, it makes me feel like the biggest fraud. You know what, I was abused, it sucks, it's why I don't talk about my parents because they were shit parents and this is why. It's no longer my shame, I'm not proud of it, but I'm not going to hide it to protect them anymore. Don't discourage your wife telling people about her past, but encourage her to tell safe people.

Forming emotional attachments with people is pretty hard. Intimacy involves give and take, sharing that is healthy and reciprocal. I can draw people out, but I don't let anyone in. Look closely at the emotional attachment in your marriage.

My husband wasn't abused, but he was raised by a woman who is a survivor, who has never dealt with her abuse. He moves on to marry a survivor before he even ever knows about his mother's past. Not a coincidence, really. We both spoke that unspoken language where emotional attachment and intimacy is lacking, and it's normal, and is a big part in why we work, why we chose each other.


Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 805 | Registered: Jun 2010
caspers1wish
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ ladypersephone:

After the initial assault, he apologized and I actually believed it. Instead of telling someone, I met with him for coffee. We talked a lot and text messaged. I was not romantic though. We were mostly talking about common interests-- friendly stuff. Then one night I gave him a ride home, I was drunk and I gave in to sex. I was horrified that it happened. I told him I didn't want to have sex with him!!

This phenomenon is prevalent and many perpetrators want this because it will confuse the survivor and make it seem like you were complicit somehow. You will question whether you really were assaulted, and especially if you feel like you gave in to sex (drunk, which doesn't constitute consent).


Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 805 | Registered: Jun 2010
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has she given you transparency to see all of their correspondences, including the one the day before the nerve burn? What was her tone? Could there have been approval she was seeking? Had she shut down the abuse and only sought the boost? Or could there have been a trigger word or phrase in his message to her that made her vulnerable to acting out?

For someone who placed honesty and integrity so high on her list of values, She left no trail. If I am to believe her(whichI mostly do, or this is oscar worthy), when the covo's got too personal on FB messenger she SHE suggested they take it to text. SHE suggested instant deletion as they go. No trail to go by, covered her tracks almost as if she had done this before. That aspect is tough to get past as well. If this was all the result of a "fog", how are you able to cover it so well, so quickly? She admits she knew it was wrong and that is why she covered it up, but then if you knew it was wrong in the first place, why continue?

I stressed her focus on honesty and morals, before I knew about SI, I requested a N/C text be sent so its really not what would be suggested. It is what it is.. It read as follows; "***, I have made the largest mistake of my life. I am now trying everything in my power to save my marriage, my family...essentialy my life because if I lose them...I have no life...they are everything to me. I'm sorry I did this please do not contact me . I have destroyed the morals and honesty that I told you I believed in...my husband knows everything it was his right to know. I am posting that honesty Praying that honesty will save the best thing that ever happened to me." Again, what was going through her mind? Very few memories of the texts or the conversations.

The large blank spots really concern me. She remembers that he would masturbate daily through texts and she would help. The day of the first phone call she phone sexed him through it. He sent pictures(deleted x2) of his junk for her which she masturbated to once(her claim). At one point she did ask if it was all about sex and he of course replied no, I want all of you. She remembers him referencing her as Mrs POSOM to which she claims to have replied but im married.

He told her he loved her 3 days after first contact. She responded back the next day.

Shit, I guess there could have been a trigger phrase. Again, concern is that are there more?

Crap,otta go, will be back to answer more with more q's


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3170 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For someone who placed honesty and integrity so high on her list of values, She left no trail. If I am to believe her(whichI mostly do, or this is oscar worthy), when the covo's got too personal on FB messenger she SHE suggested they take it to text. SHE suggested instant deletion as they go. No trail to go by, covered her tracks almost as if she had done this before. That aspect is tough to get past as well. If this was all the result of a "fog", how are you able to cover it so well, so quickly? She admits she knew it was wrong and that is why she covered it up, but then if you knew it was wrong in the first place, why continue?

Good questions. Has she been a WS previous to this time? Even if she hadn't talked to him in 25 years, was she aware of him or in touch in some way? Why, when she heard from him on Facebook, wasn't her first instinct to run? Did she think about or remember the abuse? Minimize it? These are important questions. Maybe there weren't any thoughts or triggers about the past abuse - perhaps it was about ego or validation or any of the "usual" reasons we have As (I cringe using the word "usual"). It was still a choice. Why did she make it? How was she able to compartmentalize so quickly - as you said, to throw away everything in less than 13 days? These are good things to keep talking about with her, so hopefully she will give you the whole picture.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't discourage your wife telling people about her past, but encourage her to tell safe people.

That's moreso what I was trying to do. It was always an awkward area of conversation, because I felt like by being able to talk about it, that in itself was a healthy thing. But sometimes she would do it say, after work, over a couple drinks, to a group of mixed coworkers. By mixed I mean male/female and friends/acquaintances. These are not usually people she's known for years, more like a few months. So while I certainly felt like it wasn't my place to control who she told her past abuses to, I was trying to tell her to be careful with that info to a degree, because you send out a certain feeling of intimacy when you share deeply personal stuff like that. Mostly I left that issue alone though, because again, it's NOT my trauma to share or not share. This only came up from time to time.

For example, when I was 19 or so I dated a girl who had been sexually abused when she was like 14...however, she had taken the guy to court, attended counseling right away, etc., and had been able to deal with it to a degree that my now-wife has not yet. She was very cautious about who she told about the abuse, and only after a long period of knowing them. But as soon as my WW feels a little comfortable with someone, it's one of the first things that comes out, and it always struck me as a little weird, but not my place to really harp about.

Forming emotional attachments with people is pretty hard. Intimacy involves give and take, sharing that is healthy and reciprocal. I can draw people out, but I don't let anyone in. Look closely at the emotional attachment in your marriage

Curious. What do you mean ^^^ here?

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:43 AM, March 9th (Saturday)]


I have a competition in me.

Posts: 2261 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, March 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this was all the result of a "fog", how are you able to cover it so well, so quickly?

I had another thought that I think might help.

During the time I was with the ex/OM (before I met H, during our original relationship), the abuse was kept secret. There were things he did to ensure I would keep it a secret, insidious things that I am still working through. So there was something ingrained about the secrecy with him that was already there, before I became a mad-hatter.

If your wife was forced to keep the abuse a secret when it was happening and afterward, that might factor in to the hows. Just a thought. I know you guys might be struggling today with triggers, so I am sending both of you healing thoughts today.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.
Sometimes my monkeys, sometimes my circus.
Infidelities are like icebergs - they may take many different shapes and sizes, but they all damage your ship.

Posts: 3921 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, March 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nope, never a WS before. In fact,her BFF had a drunken A that made her physically react. Utmost concern for friend, but thought the actions were contemptible. Really PO'd @ friend. BFF's H has a RA, wife no less adamant that the behavior was wrong, but hopeful that they could work it out. H has another affair and WW is the first one over there to help hefty bag the guy. She flew to a conference in your fair city(I think, the one with the BIG bridge) and her roommate engaged in a ONS while there. When she came home she was almost physically ill while telling me about it. Could not understand the morality of people who whould do that. So all in all, no I'm pretty sure other than the EA earlier(didn't involve sex talk i'm pretty sure, just way far down the slippery slope)she has never demonstrated WS thinking or behaviors.

Reading back through some earlier posts, she wasn't physically abused by this guy.(got a problem with that though, statutory rape, even if the victim is willing is physical) She was 12, he was 17 and would use her daily and even once(?) simultaneously with his friend. He was an on again off again for the next 5 years. Then he moved out of state and she got married.

Says that thoughts of him never crossed her mind even after her D. She dated several other men before she met me and then we hooked up. Her claim is the first thought of him was when he contacted her on FB. Even then, her first thought wasn't to hook up, but OMG, how are you doing? Yea, that lasted 12 hours, she didn't make the first move, but didn't hold back when he asked if she really wanted to know what he was doing.

The guy has predator written all over him. Told her he was taking care of business while looking at her profile pic. Less than 24 hrs after initial contact . That's when she suggested taking it off fb messenger cause they keep records of that. Suggested text cause it was more private and easier to delete. Told him that she would contact him when it was safe(when I had left for the day)and they could continue thier conversations.

She is open about everything. I have all passwords, phone is open to me 24/7. Answers all questions, but has some trouble with some because she can't remember(won't?) some and gets frustrated. When I become upset, she will immediately apologize and tell me it's not the question, but the frustration of not being able to remember.

It's so damn wierd. She is back to having little tolerance for wayward behavior. Watching that Betty White show and something infidelity related came up and she indicated her disappointment in the show, we talked about it's prevelence in society and the fact that she is disgusted with herself.

I'm lost, baffled, confused....idk. After dealing with 4 other women who had affairs, this was/is the type of woman I was looking for in her. Yet she has shown/proven that not only is she capable of doing it, she actually did it.

To answer your last, no, never a secret really. She didn't go out of her way to tell her parents, but never lied about it either. Doubtful they would have cared anyway. At 15 she moved in with the 30 y/o across the street and the closest to a negative was once when she went home for a meal her dad commented to her mom(not directly to her) that if she was gonna fuck over there she might as well eat over there also.

Thanks for noticing the date. Actually yesterday was worse(the friday/saturday thing). Today we had 10 inches of snow and 30 mph winds. Still snowing. We spent the day together. Did some baking together.(Really! Banana bread) Talking, reading SI. Posting some. I think she sent you a pic for support.

In a way, it's scary. She literally acts like she did before the incident regarding infidelity. Doesn't deny or defend. The whole situation is like that damned clapper commercial. Clap on, she's in an affair. Clap off, that type of behavior is disgusting to her. Again she's not rugsweeping it!

WTF!

Thanks again


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3170 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
Topic Posts: 262
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14

Return to Forum: I Can Relate Post Reply to this Topic
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.