Tryn - I saw your shout out - pleased to see I'm still remembered despite my absence from here.
It really is night and day - how much I depended on checking in on this board multiple times a day, every day for over a year. Only after several months following my separation did I start to feel anything like myself again.
There are a lot of mental gymnastics involved in staying with a spouse after infidelity. Not to say it's not worth it, I'm just saying that it goes against the grain of what most of us had believed prior to learning about infidelity first hand.
So, that is what I chalk my ability to be absent from the board for awhile - it's not confusing once you decide to separate.
I do think of you all often however.
Anyway - Tryn- let's see. I broke up with the cute/new guy. Realized I'm not really ready to be vulnerable again with someone else. Plus, a bunch of stuff happened with the new guy that just didn't make it worth dealing with the angst from the X.
So - officially I'm "trying" with the X. My trying is pretty much limited to not dating anyone else. We went out on one date together, which was fine, but not repeated. H now goes to his counselor every other week & are supposed to start m/c.
Quick summary of how this is going: I have not forgiven my H. I'm still pretty angry/disgusted by him. I do not have any feelings of longing or wanting to be with him. Not sure if that's going to return. H is getting pretty annoyed that I'm still angry and that I'm not trying to work things out more with him.
My feeling is that I need some sort of assurance that he's changed before I allow myself to be emotionally involved with him again. Not sure what he would have to do to show me he has changed, but I do know I haven't seen it yet.
I really am pretty indifferent to the whole thing.
Anyway - hope to catch up with everyone soon - in the meantime I will be thinking of you all.
Good to hear from you.
Reconciling after a LTA is not easy but for many of us worth it in the end.
The goal is a new and improved marriage and spouse.
It's good to hear that your husband is in IC and that you are planning on going to MC. (make sure that your MC is familiar with the trauma model as it applies to infidelity and is not one of those therapists that just pushes for you to quickly 'get over' the affair).
If you remember- I kicked my FWH out of the house after d-day and we were separated for 6 months.
I filed for divorce initially but my FWH's level of remorse convinced me to withdraw the divorce complaint (at least temporarily).
He did go to IC (but he went 2x per week for the first 6 months-that's how screwed up he was! LOL).
I went to IC also.
And we started to 'date' a little- out for a cup of coffee to talk, later a lunch, then a movie.
I agreed to MC 3 months after he moved out. The first MC was awful (I suspect he was a WH himself and he related way too much with my husband).
We fired him and found another MC who was much better.
She understood that I was traumatized by the LTA and dealt with that.
After 6 months of separation I agreed to let him move back home.
But, I also insisted on some kind of ceremony to make it special.
I did not want him moving back like it was no big deal.
We had begun to go a new church and the minister there was awesome-we both had gone to him for some counseling as well.
So I asked my husband to go to the minister for a re-comittment ceremony on the day he was to move back.
The minister asked us both to write something.
My FWH promised me all kinds of things.
But all that I could promise was to commit to try to save our marriage.
Even at this point I was not 100% certain that I could get over this betrayal.
We exchanged new rings too .
My attitude was that the only way that I could go forward was if I saw it as a new beginning.
A new marriage.
A chance to get it right this time.
And like you... pre d-day I never in a million years thought that I would ever be able to forgive any kind of infidelity let alone a LTA.
But, it's one of those things-unless you've experienced it you do not have a clue what it is like or how you will react.
A book that was helpful for me was: How Can I Forgive You? By Janis Spring.
She explains how acceptance is really what we should be aiming for.
And that some people never forgive...but that's ok too.
Allgood... Is he really not changing?
I'll tell ya, you must forgive in order for any of all those good type feelings to return.
Suppose for years you mistreated your H. Then you "wake" to realize how poorly you did treated him. You start to change, you want forgiveness, yet you don't get it. Does that make for a loving, kind, caring marriage relationship today?
Nope. We must do what we can control. That is to forgive.
We men are pretty simple. Not this as insult or lack for your intelligence as this applies to us men. Men need more things direct. You can tell him how to meet all your needs. It may take a few times but I bet he will "get it". Go at it from a more loving point of view...
"Honey, I want our new marriage but your treating me (whatever he did) is not conducive to a loving caring affirming intimate me. Now what's for dinner?" No deep conversion after that.. Move on quick!
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:53 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]
Just checking in to tell you I am OK.
HUGS Allgood and good luck honey.
HUGS to everyone else too
And, I realize that forgiveness is necessary. I just don't honestly think I can do it.
Wherever it lands. I'm not forcing a conlusion. The fear is gone for the most part. I know I can do it without him & be fine. In waking up after we separated, he may have taken away the single biggest factor that made me want to work for R - my fear to be without him is gone. ANd, once he involved my kids in this - well, I'm loathe to involve them in anothe r
Thanks for checking in.
He can only show you he's changed by being different.
You can only see him being different if you're with him.
You can't stand off to the side and wait for him to reveal it. It doesn't work.
Let me tell you about the M3 house. When I was pregnant with Baby Paddy I got food poisioning and was terribly ill. This was about 4 weeks before I found the naked pictures of OW on WH's phone. I was violently ill. WH took the kids and our nannies out to brunch, then he came back, left the kids with one nanny and a neighbor and spent the day drinking and watching football with a friend. Except when Sunshine needed a diaper while nanny was in the shower. Then he brought me the baby (Sunshine was 5 mos. old)
Well, let's fast forward to this past weekend. M3 is once again pregnant and laid up with a stomach flu at the same time. WH took care of the kids as many hours as I needed him to so I could rest. He went grocery shopping, cooked for us, came back from the store with a toy for each child and a gardening magazine and a pot of flowers for me. I was so mean and grumpy, I didn't deserve anything other than a kick in the pants -- but he just took care of me and brought me flowers to cheer me up.
So, that's an example of how you know your WS has changed. But you're not going to see it if you don't give it the chance to happen.
and I do believe that people can change... lots of people make enormous changes in themselves and never go back to the old toxic behaviors. Whether its alcohol, or drugs, or gambling, or sex, or over eating...you name it.
Many people find themslves caught in toxic thinking and behaviors....some never see the light and never change. Others do wake up.
1. I now understand why people kill themselves over infidelity or the betrayal of someone close to them (no, I am not and never have been suicidal but can now understand the depth of despair caused by infidelity)
2. I now understand why people kill those close to them and those that have betrayed them (again, this is against my nature but now I can understand the depths of despair that infidelity can cause)
3. Now I understand the forces that infidelity can wreak on ones mind, body, and soul (occasional typing speed at 10 letters per minute – yes, LETTERS per minute; chronic pain in my back due to stress; and losing sight of who you are, where you are, loss of desire and lack of concern. I have experienced all of theses).
4. I have learned about EDMR and other trauma therapies.
5. I have learned that I can never truly know someone and this is very sad. I could understand my W changing and wanting to end our M of twenty years but I never would have thought tat she could betray me so viciously by having an A.
6. I now understand some of the many veils that a WS must put up to protect their own soul from the raw destruction of their choices and the harm inflicted.
7. I have observed the flaws in the mental health profession. Not much has changed through the centuries.
8. I learned that the impact on me of my W infidelity is greater than the impact of the loss of my vision several years ago (think of the character Mr Magoo and you will understand my vision)
9. I now understand that a WS in an A can still expect their spouse to be loving, kind, helpful, and supportive (even though they are not being would up in the A) and become angry and resentful when their spouse is not everything they want, whether spoken or not.
10. I learned how easy it is to conceal an affair when one gives complete and unconditional trust.
11. I learned that a WS will risk their own life by going to an area unknown to anyone but them and their AP, having never met any friends, family, or even acquaintances of the AP, and knowing that the AP has disturbing thoughts towards women and sexuality.
12. I learned that a WS will not only risk their own life but will also risk the life of their spouse by having unprotected sex with the AP and the spouse. (and after a close friend contracted HIV many years ago)
13. I learned that a WS can think that an A is okay as long as their spouse does not find out. Ugh!
14. I learned that the words “I Love you” can have different meanings or no meaning at all.
15. I learned that a WS confession to an A can provide tremendous relief to the WS and they may have the feeling “whew, that is over – let’s get back to the routine of our lives
16. I learned that hard work and sacrifice to provide for your family can be unappreciated much less rewarded.
17. I learned that infidelity can be discovered and yet the WS will continue the A until it’s exposure is imminent (read my profile)
18. I learned that a WS can say how wonderful the A was and dismiss it as insignificant; almost in the same breath.
19. I learned that deceit can come easy and without guilt. Toltoy’s Crime and Punishment does not apply to As.
20. And finally, I learned that I will survive this wretched experience as I have survived many others in my life including misfortune, illness and unexpected death of those I care for dearly.
It was one year ago this weekend that I discovered my W infidelity and I found it appropriate to share my thoughts on the experience. I have learned a lot on how to deal with the fall out from her A from the wonderful, and also impacted by an A, on this site. May each of you find peace and happiness in your lives.
Thank you so much for your wonderful post.
I believe that all of us here could tick every one of your statements and say:
Yes, I feel/have felt that
Yes I understand that
Hey, you read my thoughts!!!
BIG HUGS for you this weekend honey.
Yep, your life experience is very close to mine. You now know one life “givens” at the deepest level. People are not always loving or loyal. Can you now learn how to be happy after that “Given” hits?
You can forgive. Everyone can forgive. Our brains are made to forgive.
“I'm not forcing a conclusion”
Hah… You do it in your job, you do it with your kids.. yet Nope.. I won’t do it with the man I will spend the rest of my life with? Really?
My wife cheated because she was unable to tell me what she needed. She could not say things in a way where I “got it”. I think you both want your marriage to work and love each other on the highest of levels. It takes a mutual effort allgood. It’s very hard for a woman for some reason to tell her man what she needs directly in a safe loving way. Thing is this, if you cannot do it now, what man can you be direct enough with so he will get it? None and never. Will you end up is the same boat?
Your BF did not take his profile down. “BF, I think we both want a good relationship loving, happy, respectful etc. We have a problem that I am going to address with you. You agreed to take the profile down and left it up for whatever reason. I am a woman who works hard at doing what I say I am going to do and I only will be with a man who does the same for me. If you want to keep your profile up, then you have answered me by being the kind of man I won’t be with. Now, I am going to the store, you want to go with me so we can enjoy the day?” No arguing, No more comments, listen, not more said. That is what you wanted, needed, and who you are. This man gets it or he leaves. You are then to find a man who is a good man.
When you come from the position of right… you won’t be wrong.
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:40 AM, April 15th (Sunday)]
Love never fails!
I considered fWH and OW/xBFF's affair an LTA. A little over 2 1/2 years.
I learned that the impact on me of my W infidelity is greater than the impact of the loss of my vision several years ago (think of the character Mr Magoo and you will understand my vision)
I'm sorry about your vision. That, I'm sure, has been a terrible thing to go through as well. It reminded me of something that MC said early on (within the first 6 months). That, THIS just might be the worst thing I will ever go through. She said the only thing she has seen people go through worst despair is at the loss of a child.
I have seen posters here talk about how dealing with a parents death has been easier than dealing with infidelity.
Firstly I would like to apologise - I tell my friends often "I have early onset alzheimers" because I forget so much. If you have been on LTA before I am sorry - I have forgotten. If not:
Welcome to the tribe. I just read your profile. I am so sorry honey.
You say R is going well and that is great. Our ddays are close so I guess like me the rollercoaster throws you off balance sometimes. I hope you are generally OK.
Nice to meet you.
Wow, our dday's are very close. Makes me think of what we were both going through at the same time. Those first days after dday, I could think of NOONE but myself and that horrific pain.
R, for the most part, is going well. I have my moments, the little breakdowns and such, but usually just come here to put them on "paper" and get some feedback.
My fWH has done HARD work. I consider that a blessing, especially after seeing so many people here who do not get that courtesy.
I have never come on the LTA before. I seen it pop up today and thought I would just come lurking. Ended up feeling the need to say something.. although I always have a hard time keeping my mouth shut
So yeah, generally, I am ok. I hope you are as well.
And you start thinking to yourself, "Hey, she really should change this or that and maybe start living an authentic life" or whatnot...
Then you realize that you ARE 'her'... that woman you are watching is YOU.
Just my thoughts today...
I don't know if losing a child would be worse, but
I have had 5 miscarriages and one of my children had cancer. This is worse than any of those things were.
H&C a big hug for you today.
My marriage is better than it was before I discovered my WH's A('s ?) -- but it will never be as good as it could have been.
I don't know if losing a child would be worse, but
I have had 5 miscarriages and one of my children had cancer. This is worse than any of those things were.
Wow. I am sorry for your miscarriages. I had a close friend go through one recently and it was an eye opening experience for me. I will never look at it as I did before (clearly uneducated).
I am also very sorry to hear about your child that had cancer. I am guessing remission now? Thank God for that.
This does seem to be the worst thing that I can possibly imagine. The more I have been on this site, the more layers I realize are involved in this recovery. The fact that it is a double betrayal, long term affair, while I was coping with a high risk (to the mother) pregnancy and a newly diagnosed heart problem just baffles me. I do have a very remorseful H though, so I have got that on my side.
A betrayal is sort of ongoing, because you never can know if you can trust that person again, but given the empirical evidence it's best not to. Unfortunately, marriage is about a lot of things and may be worth salvaging anyway, depending on the circumstances.
I read an article profiling Hillary Clinton the other day that included the sentence "betrayal in marriage is common."
The double betrayal aspect will hurt less over time. My situation was a double betrayal too, and the hurt I felt over OW's betrayal is gone now. I could care less about her.
I will love if the day comes that I no longer think of her and she is nothing but an insignificant moment in the past. It just doesn't seem like it could ever come to that.
Plus, as everyone here understands, the long term aspect makes it so much harder (at least for me). I would have still been in terrible pain and agony and still hated her if it had been a ONS, but the fact that I have years of their "relationship" to think about.. To realize it wasnt just a "opps, accident" or "mistake", it was a planned out, emotional and physical affair.
Dday is slowly approaching for me. I will not have the same amount of time in since dday in comparison to how long the affair lasted until Dec 2012. I am really looking forward to 2013.