I think the advice that Dip, Tryn etc have given you is spot on regarding the comparison between the two griefs. I was on the phone to my mother in New Zealand last night and we were talking about this very thing. When someone close to you passes and there is a funeral, you walk away from the funeral and enter into the next phase of mourning. The funeral is the symbolic event that allows you to do this. It is a closure of some kind even though you may still feel the loss of the person for all time. In the case of the discovery of infidelity, that too is also like a death, except that you feel you cannot get past the death announcement. For the first time yesterday evening, I actually sat down and cried about what has happened, I mean "really" cried. It has been over 12 months so what does that mean? I realised that I missed stbxh sooo much. Not the person I now know he was, but the friend I thought I had. The level of disrespect is also so great which is why it is so hard to get over. Also, I do not feel I have really been able to avenge myself to my satisfaction. What I need to do in order to feel "avenged" I am not sure yet and also I don't really know what I expect to feel like if I ever achieve this. I think the fact that your FWH never got feel the brunt of your father's wrath would be frustrating and would make you feel that he has not really paid all the dues he should rightly pay over his betrayal. You withheld the information from your father with the best of intentions in mind, in order to give your marriage a chance. That is an authentic reason. Whether your H really appreciates that will remain to be seen I guess but he will have to live with his actions for a very long time.
Land of Ellejay:
I have decided to go and see my MIL this evening to try and bring the "elephant in the room" out in the open. My decision to do this has been prompted by a conversation my ex had with our DD13 a few days ago whereby he said that "Nanna, was feeling offended that she hadn't been invited round for Sunday lunch recently". Just another example of his total inability to recognise the far reaching effects of his behaviour but never mind . MIL is in denial and will never discuss anything with me just sits there with her arms folded staring out the window when she comes round. Has never asked me how I am emotionally not once. If I didn't initiate conversation it would be very awkward indeed. I love her dearly but I just can't handle it anymore. The complete silence is deafening and incredibly stressful for me. It is as though I just sold my house and moved because I preferred the scenery better over here. Also, I feel extremely uncomfortable sitting in her home because my ex used her place to take these OW when she was away, so the movies in my head when I'm round there aren't exactly pretty . I am going to be gentle with her however I really think it's time she acknowledged the pain I have been through even though she needs to support her son.
OK, I think I've ranted on long enough.
Love to all the LTA Tribe, hope Christmas and New Year bring positive energy and good times ahead.
I'm in that place right now, dealing with everything for the first year and I can tell you that I was shocked that grieving my father's death has seemed like nothing compared with the betrayal by my fWH.
I really truly thought that losing my father was going to be the worst thing that happened this year (hence my user name). I was wrong. Completely wrong.
My dad was mad as hell that he was sick, but eventually came to a place of acceptance. He was at peace when he went. I miss him every second of every day, but I know that he'd give anything to be right back here again.
My husband, on the other hand, CHOSE to walk out on me for years. Over and over again. He may be here now, but he sure as hell wasn't then, at precisely the time I needed him. He was too busy stroking his own ego, wrapped up in his selfishness.
My dad would never have done something to hurt me on purpose. He never would have left this earth if he had a say about it.
My husband? Eh.
It is so different because one is intentional pain, the other isn't.
its amazing how some mothers can overlook so much and some cannot overlook anything....
i think its wise to just tell her how you feel, straight to the point and without condemnation if possible.....and even if she doesn't "hear" you, you will have the knowledge that you spoke, you will have the satisfaction to a certain extent that you got to say your peace.
avengement: i dont think that there really is any avengement that will suffice for these ws's...at least not the one who "dont get it"...and its precisely IT...they dont get it and probably never will, at least not in the way "we" need....of course the ws's who do get it are another story....those of us who want that feeling of being avenged or having some sort of justice have ws's who truly dont get what they have done, and what their actions continue to do to us...
today marked 3years, 3 years ago today my joy left my life and has not yet returned...but this year i now KNOW that i will one day get it back...i am finally starting to feel hope for my future and thats because i am taking the steps i need to take to have one....it all still hurts, but i KNOW i will get my joy back....someday i will get my joy back!!!
(((ukgirl)))thinkin of you hon.....
eta: oh and honest...i will be praying for some sort of airline strike or something that will keep npd away....it sucks that he is coming back so soon....its not good when his visits are so frequent and close together....it doesnt give you enough time to breathe clean air...(((honest)))
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:56 PM, December 19th (Monday)]
Miracle - I will take your advice re the MIL sitch. It is not my intention to lay blame her way, all this is hardly her fault however you are right in that I need to be heard and that is all I have ever asked for really. Much easier for his side of the family to sweep it all under the rug so that they don't have to deal with the reality of what that means about their son/brother. It is frustrating in that I know my ex realises that he stuffed up and has lost his family but I know there is no way he really gets "IT" in terms of what it all means for me and his kids. Why else would he be so arrogant as to nominate one of his OW for an awards this year, continue to pressurise our kids to meet her and talk in derogatory terms regarding the BH's of these women? Also I think that after a year has gone past, people think that enough time has past for there to be a significant recovery for the BS. Wrong. I believe that is when things really start to hit home and the BS needs more intense counselling and support IMHO. I am looking forward to the day when I wake up and say "Enough all ready. Let my life now begin once more".
Just chiming in on:
a) Dealing with the death of a loved one and dealing with infidelity
As many of you know my dday was 2 days after my mother's funeral. We were very close. She lived in an aged care facility after having a stroke in 1993 - less than a year after my dad died from cancer. She was a fighter and her family (including her H) was her world. Nothing came before the family and I tried to emulate her.
When she died I was very sad on one hand but felt OK on the other because she was old and, although she still wanted to live, her quality of life had really deteriorated. She wanted to live to see her grandchildren marry and get "settled". I knew I would miss her terribly and I did.
But then dday hit exactly a week after she died. I cannot repeat the horrible things my FWH said to his whores about my mother dying. She loved him like a son but he said the most awful things to them about his treatment of me when she was dying. When I think of what he said I truly wonder if he was in the grip of some kind of psychosis.
Because of the shock of dday, I don't think I have ever truly mourned the death of my mother. And I resent that.
I remember after my dad died feeling so sad. I remember for months afterwards waking in the middle of the night and going out to the living room and just thinking about him and crying. My dad and I were close but nowhere near as close as mum and I.
But I have never done this since mum died. I suppose that's another thing I blame FWH for. After dday when I woke crying in the middle of the night it was because of what he had done and thoughts of this dominated my days and nights.
When mum and dad left I was not hurt. I was sad. There were no regrets, no bad memories. The sadness was about missing them.
With infidelity it is SOOOOO different. The pain we feel is unearned, unexpected and I truly believe incurable. I don't think I will ever stop feeling the pain.
Dad has been dead now for 18 years. I think of him fondly. I miss him but there is no heartache. I now feel much the same about mum.
The pain from dday really hasn't lessened much.
I really don't like comparing pain from losses. I guess what I am trying to say is that I think the pain from death is "curable" while that from infidelity is not.
b) Re mothers and children
I have told few people this and it is a cause for great shame for me but now I think is the time to share with you all.
My DD was an OW. The skunk was 20 yrs older than her at the time - she was 19. She was totally conned by him. I'm not trying to excuse her behaviour. I'm trying to explain how a DD of mine who was raised with my values could do such a thing.
When she finally confessed to me I said things like
- you are stealing from his BW!
- I am so ashamed of you. (this daughter who was the light of my life).
When she tried to explain how she "couldn't help" how she felt and how his BW was actually cheating on him too, I abused her verbally.
When I found out a few months later that she was still seeing him I repeated the calm statements above. When she again made excuses I became enraged and called her a selfish "whore" and a "slut".
And all of this was before my dday. When I abused my DD and ranted and raved about the evils of infidelity I had NO IDEA of what FWH had been doing. I remember sitting and talking to him about it later. I remember him saying I was being too hard on her. I remember talking about how infidelity disgusted me, and the weakness of those who did it.
I now know that at this time he had been with OW2 for many years and shortly after started with OW3.
So - my point????
I cannot condone any parent being "loyal" to a child doing evil. As mothers it is our responsibility to tell it like it is. Yes we still love our children. But we have to take a stand on what is right.
I am going to be gentle with her however I really think it's time she acknowledged the pain I have been through even though she needs to support her son.
Yes it is. Time. No wonder her son is the way he is. She is shirking her responsibility as a mother by burying her head in the sand.
You can love your children (in your own mind) but not making them face their mistakes is not love.
She needs to "put on her big girl panties". She needs to tell him he is wrong. She needs to support you and her grandchildren as best she can.
MIL is in denial and will never discuss anything with me just sits there with her arms folded staring out the window when she comes round.
This is bullshit. How dare she!!!
I need to be heard and that is all I have ever asked for really.
She is your children's grandmother - the least she can do is listen and be sympathetic.
Any way, my advice which became a little vent.
(BTW - I have not spoken to my MIL since dday and don't plan to. She didn't even have the decency to express her condolences to me over my mother's death. She is a stuck up bitch! and I am a vindictive bitch! I used to be nice to her for the sake of good family relations. Now I don't give a shit!!!!! I am sure she is hurt, I am sure she tells everyone what a bitch I am and I really don't care. My children have never really liked her so no great loss)
Good luck tonight Ellejay
HUGS to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 2:15 AM, December 20th (Tuesday)]
Your father did not betray you.
When someone close to you passes and there is a funeral, you walk away from the funeral and enter into the next phase of mourning.
(((((WYE))))) Yes, this has been your worst year ever and I expect you will be more than glad to close the door on it and take a step towards a more positive one next year Ė one where you can be in control and make choices instead of having them inflicted on you.
Ellejay Ė I agree that you should quietly and simply say exactly what is on your mind to your MIL. It seems that this inability to discuss things is a Mr Ellejay family trait and so itís down to you to make the situation very clear to her. And tell her you hope she doesnít take offence, but right now you need to do what is best for you. As we have all found, however well you get on with your ILs, however much you love them and they love you, they will always side with their child. I was upset at my MILís withdrawal from me Ė but she just didnít know what to say or how to act. And even though she hated what her son had done and was horrified at his choice of AP, I know that whatever happened to us, she would naturally side with him. So donít chastise yourself whatever the outcome Ė if it goes okay, great; if it doesnít, you will have done your best. So do it, step back and let HIM deal with any fall out. Good luck with that one.
Laura, we try to teach our kids and bring them up as we would like them to be seen. But there comes a time when they have to be responsible for their own choices Ė all we can do is point out the possible consequences, but if they choose to carry on, what CAN you do? Perhaps finding out at 19 and single is better than finding out at 30, married, with children and a mortgage. And her affair with a MM is no reflection upon you Ė she chose.
My MIL was a WW, and when I found out I tore into fWH and said he now had the perfect excuse Ė it was genetically predisposed to having an affair. And actually, many members of his large extended family have had affairs, OC, married the AP, etc so I have wondered if a little bit of him kinda thought what he was doing wasnít thaaaat bad.
honest...i will be praying for some sort of airline strike or something that will keep npd away...
Things are all over the place right now. Lots of coming and going. Lots of calls, emails, family conferences, etc. We have organised relays to be there for Mum, of course most of it is down to me. Christmas is all change and yet still the same. The funeral is sorted already, so thatís something else we are constantly talking about. My head is all over the place, so if you donít mind, Iím bowing out of SI for a bit Ė I donít want to run the risk of leaving something on the screen at home or away, there are just too many eyes around and ones belonging to those I most definitely do NOT want to know about fWH and me. Iíll be back in the New Year after everything has quietened down and people have gone back to their homes, jobs and own lives.
So I hope all my friends here have the best Christmas you can in all your different circumstances. And I look forward to a 2012 that is better than 2011 for all of us. Iíll silently say a toast to you all on Christmas and New year. (((((Tribe)))))
I missed your post last night... How did that exposure go? I guess your H is not going to feel to good about her now knowing.
Meanwhile I'm trying to keep upbeat. Thought I'd send a couple of uplifting pics of my new addition to our family "Hudson" just turned 12 weeks. This is just one of the many reasons that my little family still keeps going and still remains strong.
Ellejay & Hudson (today)
Even the damn dog won't keep still!!
[This message edited by Ellejay at 7:11 AM, December 20th (Tuesday)]
Merry Christmas to You!!
hudson is way way too adorable....he looks alot like my dog...i hope yours is way smarter though...mine...not so smart, but totally lovable as seems yours...
and elljay, you are a beautiful woman....another case of what was he thinkin .....you are a beautiful woman inside and outside....
(((wye))) yup totally the worst year for ya....but on the other hand that means that next year will be better....
(((ukgirl)) will be thinkin bout ya
k, gotta go back to doin school work now....
You have a beautiful family! My prayers are with you that you find true happiness.
Thank you for those sentiments. It means so much.
I do not know if there is a way to avenge the A. There is a saying that goes something like this. "There are some crimes that have no proper retribution." I think the A fits in with that saying. It would be hard to feel properly avenged and even if you get close to accomplishing that feat, I am afraid that the feeling of satisfaction could be fleeting and hollow. It is hard to get past this feeling of needing to get the full retribution. I understand all about that.
You are right about your MIL and how she is treating you. It is not right. Blood is thicker than water so it is going to be hard to get her to change her attitude.
Hudson is cute and like all dogs they seem to think it is proper to screw up pictures. You are very attractive and certainly fit into the "WHAT WAS HE THINKING" category.
Check in. I need help with the retribution quote!
When do we get the next report card? I expect a 4.0 report.
I am joining with the others in thinking that NPD's flight need to be diverted. Northern Alaska is nice this time of year.
I hope next year is better. Hang in there.
Nice picture. At last a chart that I can understand. I noticed the Colts screwed up and won a game. WHY?
Hugs to the tribe.
I'm so glad I found this forum. Seems like no one else has any idea what things are like right now.
Hope you all have a calm and peaceful day.
Or, we can just run around screaming SERENITY NOW at the tops of our lungs.
Huh, didn't work.
Thinking of you.
The MIL thing... I don't know... I'm of two minds about confronting ILs (STBXILs especially) about anything A-related. My MIL and FIL are walking around very confused about the whole Nell wanting to divorce their cheating, lying son. It's quite out of the blue, don't you know. So they're trying to figure out why I all of a sudden went all craaaazy... and what they've come up with is, hm, perhaps it's early menopause. He told his local brother and SIL (SIL is really the only one of his family I will miss) and their response was "will we ever see Nell again?" (Which is as good a response as I could expect.) He told his evil twin, and I have no idea how that went... I'm sure there was quite a bit of mutual poor-me stuff exchanged as evil twin divorced his wife some years ago after he had multiple affairs and finally found a gutter-trash-ho who he wanted to bang forevah and evah (which lasted several months until she took $5,000 of his money and told him she hated him). He told his uber-religious, uber-emotional and uber-passive (but nice ) sister last night "what has been going on here" and "she was very upset."
I don't know what these people think of me or our situation. After I found out that FIL took my dad out for coffee specifically to grill him about whether I was menopausal, I told Mr. STBXNell that his parents could call and talk to me if they wanted to. (Really, though I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during that coffee date, it's a little much.) I don't know what Mr. STBXNell is telling them. I do know that eventually they will all know that he had a big fat affair with a COW, if they don't all know already. And I will rarely have to see any of them. They'll side with Mr. STBXNell, because they're his family. And I have my own family and my friends who are firmly on my side. That's the way it is, that's the way it ever will be. And I've got to be okay with that.
We added a "rescue" dog, Roscoe, to our family shortly after DDay. one year old, 85 lb, golden retriever. A lot of work!!! Not sure of history and has his own issues. Scared of cars - plops down and will not budge. Chases tail after misbehaving. AND A JOY TO HAVE IN OUR FAMILY!
I agree with you about the "avenge" thing. I guess it isn't so much about feeling avenged but more importantly that those involved can truly appreciate what they have done. BUT.........that is never going to happen IRL is it and really, do I need to keep caring long term?
I do get your point, I really do. MIL is never going to go against her son and I don't want her to. It is the total inability to acknowledge how devastating this has been for my family, that staggers me. She will be feeling very embarrassed there is no doubt about that, however stbxh has kept her in the dark about so much. He stays with her when he is in town, has introduced OW2 to her and has sugar-coated it all. I just find it absolutely abhorrent that he gets the luxury to shield his side of the family from the full extent of his actions when all the other families he has destroyed are walking around totally devastated including all the other in-laws of those families. I guess I feel this loss very sharply because I have no extended family in Australia except for my kids of course and his side of the family. My own family are scattered through New Zealand and England. They are supportive but from afar. At the end of the day though, it is true that we have to make our own "family" from within our community and keep our friends close to our hearts as I have discovered that they are my life support (one ones that haven't slept with ex of course ).
Yes, Alaska would be just the environment to freeze him out of your life.
Tried shouting SERENITY NOW from my balcony a few minutes ago, now all I can hear is police sirens in the distance.
Land of Ellejay:
Me - Cloudy with some chance of sunshine later this afternoon.
Kids - A bit too breezy for this hour of the morning.
STBX - Thick fog expected, not as bright as at first forecast.
What's the weather like where you are TRIBE???
Honest - second the motion to send the plane to Alaska but then that wouldnt be fair on anyone living there.
Nell - never knew divorce was a sympton of menopause just like turning a blindeye to reality is.
Take care tribe