You go girl!! We are all here for you!!
Kat - Your pants story just blew my mind, haha. Why don't they ever run reruns of MTM? Might have to order it!
Contacted by another girl last night - yet another vulnerable young woman that WS had harassed. It was too much for me to process so I stayed home from work today.
I've actually done that very jump before. . .
If I was brave enough to do that, then I am strong enough to survive this!!!
I will persevere. . .
Slept well last night. DD's bday meal was fun; she still gets so excited bday her bdays, lol. Today we're both off & I'm getting the 'silent treatment', which is fine since I've been cleaning the house and taking care of my plants.
Thank you so much for your support and encouragement. It really means the world to me. My CSAT had tried for a very long time to get me to sleep apart, but I couldn't maintain it. This time will be different. I'm stronger now than I was then. Emotionally I'm spent and hope for fidelity, sobriety, recovery, emotional connectedness doesn't live in me anymore. I guess I'm giving up.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
I agree with SK, built a comfy nest for yourself there!
Here is the pertinent background.
I don't really know anything about his acting out. I only know what I found out through his carelessness about leaving receipts and phone numbers around, and because I asked the RIGHT questions at the RIGHT time. I want to know the rest. Not the details, but the who, the where and the what. I don't want to unknowingly walk into a restaurant where he sat with some whore. I don't want to sit across the table from him and have him remember someone else being there. I want to know what places to avoid.
I also think there are other things I don't know. Maybe they aren't big things. But my spidey sense tells me that there are. And I want HIM to come clean, to TELL me. It feels like he is still keeping this secret life close to him and cherishing it.
She feels that it will NOT help me. She thinks it will be a source of MORE triggers, not fewer. That I am better off not knowing these facts, and just tell myself that man was NOT the H I have now. That I am probably right about the things I believe to be true and that my own internal validation of that should be what I need to foster and build in my own head and heart.
Any ideas here??
I remember in the Carnes book, and in my own experience, that it's always worse than you know or what they will tell you. With my addict husband, he would tell me about the phone calls and fail to mention that he was seeing prostitutes. yes, for my own health, there are things that I needed to know... but I quickly decided I didn't need to know everything. I was very afraid of "the movies" playing in my head (him with other women) if I knew too much.
But you know your own heart and mind. If you think you need full disclosure, then that's what you need. But I might suggest that you do that with a therapist. That way you have a neutral party monitoring your reaction and making sure you are okay. My H disclosed when we were alone, and I was so devestated... I would have felt safer if someone was there for me.
Share some more... What do you hope to gain by getting the timeline? Is your H ready to share everything, or is he only going to share what he thing you can handle? Maybe it would be best to just slow this down a bit.
Again, just my opinion based on my rather bad experience.
I think you are right to still expect to get a timeline as part of disclosure, especially as you feel strongly there are still "secrets."
I don't think you can quiet that voice. Mine has not been wrong in the 3 years of recovery. I may not have known why I felt so strongly, but it has always been right.
There is a reason you need it.
There is a reason he has been reluctant.
On the other hand, it isn't something you can demand. Only as a boundary.
My boundary at the moment is that while I continue to feel there is "something," he is keeping from me, I will stay detached except for the necessary household discussions. NOthing intimate or about "us."
You're in a tough situation. If you don't find out any more details, you'll always have questions in your mind that will keep you wondering. If you get your timeline there will likely be more pain on discovering all the details of your FWH acting out.
I like you, wanted full disclosure and a timeline from my SAWH. I got full disclosure within a few days of D Day. That was awful enough. The actual written out timeline I didn't get until probably 2 months later. It then took me another couple of weeks to pluck up enough courage to look at it.
I'm the kind of person who has to know the details no matter how painful. Looking at that timeline with WH was extremely hard (for him too). It brought back all the pain of D Day, but at least now I know who he was with over what periods of time. After all the secrets he had, and lies he had told me over the years, I needed to have everything out in the open, no matter how bad. For me, that was the only way it was going to be possible for me to try and move forward an heal.
Everyone is different. I would follow your gut. If you really feel you need to know, and you won't be able to let it go until you do, then get your timeline.
I don't know how timelines work - but is there anyway to have a general one, minus the details? For instance, "inappropriate texting with coworker #1, 1/2011-5/2011; encounter with prostitute 3/2011;" etc.
That way you have the truth but not enough information for the mind movies? I'm obviously new to this process - but I feel a general timeline is what I really want. I want to know the extent of the involvement, not necessarily the details.
Knowing locations seems to me like it would be "triggery." Not worth ruining portions of the world with bad mind movies...what if it's one of your favorite places?
Love to you!
[This message edited by WS is an Addict at 5:10 PM, January 12th (Thursday)]
Bad news: Story of WS has spread to our other social networks including past jobs. I don't think WS will ever be able to find another job because he won't have any references. I don't think I'll ever be able to look anyone in the face again without them thinking of this situation.
Well in the words of my 10th grade biology teacher, in life there are only 3 options: adapt, migrate or die.
I think it may be time to move...with or without WS, that is the true question.
but is there anyway to have a general one, minus the details? For instance, "inappropriate texting with coworker #1, 1/2011-5/2011; encounter with prostitute 3/2011;" etc.
This is what I need. But with the places inserted. If it is a favorite place, then we'll find another. I guess I feel that unless he TELLS me, it will always be disclosure that came about as a result of my detective work. And there is still not the honesty in our marriage that we should have. The open book. The intimacy. It is really blocking my ability to be fully IN this marriage. I am shutting down, building that wall against letting him in.
I am definitely listening to all your advice and weighing it carefully. I SO appreciate that you take the time to give me this consideration.
He told me last weekend that I would have this by THIS weekend.
He also told me he would do something else I have asked him for for at LEAST four years. Clean up the office where he engaged in porn while I parented his kids, cleaned and maintained the house blah blah blah. AND accused my sons of the phone bills where there were 900 number charges. I DON'T want to find suspicious phone numbers of strippers, pictures, receipts ANYTHING, if he should suddenly drop dead. Don't laugh, this has happened to several of my colleagues.
So what has happened this week? Well, he took a trip here, drove there (3 hours) researched this topic in history, read that book, etc. And the kicker? Today he got a job offer to teach two days a week. Those of you who teach know that means for every hour teaching it is 2 hours of prep and grading, especially in his field. He already is out 2 nights tutoring and in rehearsal because he is a musician. If he does this, when is he going to do the things he promised me eons ago? It isn't like this kind of organizational cleaning up is EASY for him, it's excruciatingly difficult. He's the type that carries one pile from this table to another, and cannot make a decision about what to do with each one.
So I gave him my boundary. Do it, or I move out of our bedroom. (Thanks Sabina), my issues are not as extreme as Sabina's, but I DO need to step back and say I AM IMPORTANT AND I NEED TO BE A PRIORITY!
I don't know if he will hear this as anything other than a power struggle. That's on him. I need to work the program, give him my boundaries and give up the outcome.
Constructive criticism encouraged...
SAWH told me some things early on and wrote out some details, although I realized later on that he only admitted to what I was able to confirm on my own. I am 100% positive SAWH is hiding major details from me. After he was diagnosed & we began seeing a CSAT he refused to do another one telling me that "they said I already told you too much". He adamantly stands by this attitude even now despite denying the diagnosis.
I am left wondering how far he has gone, with whom, how far back into our M, etc. I doubt he'll ever do a truthful disclosure. I do have terrible mindmovies, likely made worse by my own imagination. In all honesty I still want to know. I'm sure there are significant issues he's hiding, likely far back into our M. He's keeping secrets. The primary details at least. I feel I deserve to know the details of what was done, how much he has hidden. There are already too many secrets. This a barrier for me, even if he miraculously turns over a new leaf.
I think disclosure/timelines are highly individual and I totally support whatever decision you make. Remember, the therapist is supposed to help you heal; her opinion is just that. You do what you need to do to get better, regardless of their opinion.
Congratulations on testing clean! Great news!
We cross posted. You go girl! Stand up for yourself & prioritize yourself. Your struggle is just as important as mine. You know what you need & you've set your boundary. Just be ready to enforce it (as you already know). I'm trying so hard to let go of SAWH's reactions and processing- and it has been an uphill battle. But it works when I work it!!
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 8:28 PM, January 12th (Thursday)]
WH also had a locker at a self storage facility where he used to keep his BDSM stuff and meet OW for sex. Shortly after DDay I went with him while he cleaned it out. (I sat in the car while he went in with the garbage bags. I had no wish to see what he had there. I did go and look when it was empty). It was hard emotionally and now whenever I drive past the place I trigger but I had to know that he got rid of all that stuff.
As far as the office goes, is there anything in there that you need to keep ? I would be tempted to tell him if he doesn't do it himself this weekend you are going to dump everything into garbage bags and toss it out. Of course maybe your threat of moving to the couch will do the trick. Just stick to your guns and follow through on the consequences if he doesn't comply. (just like kids, if they find out you don't mean what you say, they'll keep doing whatever they want).
I'm sorry that you're going through this. Although I read somewhere...probably here...that anger is the body's way of standing up for itself, reclaiming itself, recognizing its own importance and demanding a new direction...
I think that is why you are angry - and standing up for yourself is a good reason to be angry.
If you need those details - not because you want to know them of course, but because you need to know that he's willing to be honest even when it means negative impacts for him...so you can stop imagining worse things...so you can have a grasp on reality...so you can feel like he is taking responsibility for what he's done...
Well then, I think you should have them - whatever you need. From what I know of your story, you are strong enough to handle the truth. Hell, it might even be easier than dealing with the "I wonder ifs" every day...
Maybe part of him wants to give you this timeline for your own healing, but part of him is afraid that if you know, you'll leave him forever. In that case, he may let you sleep on the couch forever - better there than in some other house! It may also be why he's not cleaning the office...pure avoidance. "When I clean the office, then I will have to give her the timeline."
Oh, and did he ask you about taking that new job - or did he just come home and tell you he had it?
I don't know...when I read what you've described, it sounds a lot like the behaviors of my WS but we're a lot earlier in the journey than you.
Do you like your therapist? Is it a CSAT? Is s/he looking out for what's best for you or just for him?
I think you should have your timeline...but I defer to the wisdom of others - I am inexperienced in this.
I did like the ultimatum offered by Notmetoo though:
I would be tempted to tell him if he doesn't do it himself this weekend you are going to dump everything into garbage bags and toss it out.
I think if he doesn't do it, you should trash everything, paint it pink with flowers and put lace curtains on the windows
Hope things work out. HYIT *light*
[This message edited by WS is an Addict at 9:33 AM, January 13th (Friday)]
Hugs, whatever you decide to do.