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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 7
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, November 30th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

S.K.~ Food for thought indeed! Big hug! Chocolate cheesecake is delicious!

@ tmy, re: illness

I believe that my illness is linked to the trauma I've gone through. No question in my mind.

My follow up appointment is 2 Tuesdays from now. Pathology report should be in by then. I'm trying to take things day by day and not borrow trouble from the future.

Someone mentioned anger- I'm still angry. And I'm ok with it, really. Anger is a natural emotion & appropriate for a spouse in a similar situation. My IC and I are working on my maintaining forward motion/progress and she's helping me identify and name my feelings. Anger is a primary source of energy for me right now. I'm almost scared to let go of it right now. Perhaps when we're S I'll have the luxury of letting go of my anger, but for now I need to be angry. And that's ok.

P.S. I make some delicious stuffed mushrooms! And a hot artichoke dip!

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
DrivingPast
♀ Member
Member # 32984
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, November 30th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina, still hoping for good results! Stress definitely can affect our health.

Now, y'all are getting me excited with this food talk. stuffed mushrooms, artichoke dip and chocolate cheesecake!!! omg
I'll bring the baklava.

On a side note, when I was upset today I raided the pantry and ended up eating... wait for it...
sweetened condensed milk


BW
married more than 10 yrs to a possible SA
D-Day May 5 2011
"Because one knows people best through their fears - the ones they overcome and the ones they are overcome by."

Posts: 1304 | Registered: Aug 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, November 30th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So proud of everybody. Way to go ladies!

Kat, when we are old, if our WHs have passed on, you and I can go on cruises and run over younger people with our Rascal scooters. I don't have any calcium loss, despite decades of meds that drain it and two-fisting diet coke for longer than that, but I reckon all that diet soda I've drank and the stress of SA will impart some sort of incurable illness in my old age, LOL. I'm hoping for brain tumor that causes selective memory loss.

Cheetah, good for you on your trip. I'm trying to figure out what I should do for mine, I'm due for another in about 2-3 months.

DP, it's huge that he's going, but don't hold your breath. Sure, he's more educated on SA than the average bear that comes in initially. But if he's anything like mine, he's still unable to really get what is being said to him and who knows what he's really being told vs. what he thinks he's being told. But that isn't your problem anymore, you've got a pro to worry about that instead of you now.

One day at a time.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, November 30th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath, too right! My scooter will be baby blue with a convertible top and a basket to carry my spare chocolate.
Don't mind me, I'm pissed on many levels. I need to start using the slogans. And remembering that "it works when you work it" because it does.
P.S. That hot fudge sundae tasted great! All mine!


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I have a question for you ladies.

I know I can't direct his recovery, impose my own timeframe. However, at the same time, when this all blew up in my face, I did draw my line in the sand and make a list of requirements and boundaries for me to consider R. In those lists, I did include must go to IC as needed, go to 12 step as needed, etc. and he's not going. Granted, he has said it is just until the end of the year, when the 80-90 hour work weeks stop, but also to be fair we have plenty of SA meetings 7 days a week here and he could at least be LOOKING for a new therapist and getting on their calendar for January if he doesn't want to keep going with the first one.

I don't want to be the co-dep that is trying to control the outcome that I have no control over. However, I don't want to back down from the boundaries and requirements I set in place either. I feel like I need to say something, once, definitively, so I have made the boundaries clear. When I discussed them with him originally, I had them written down so I could deliver them correctly but he did not write them down since I didn't tell him beforehand we would discuss it. So it's possible he does not remember all of them since it was four months ago.

Should I give him the boundaries/requirements in writing? And if I do, do I just make a list, or should I write it out like I delivered it, you know, When you...I feel...If you...I will. This is not new info, he heard and agreed to it all back then. Like I said, he doesn't have the written version for reference, and I know *I* have to go back and refer to my posts/journal to remember what exactly happened when.

Or should I leave it alone, because he knows what he needs to do and I can't push it, he has to choose to do it himself?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 7:38 AM, December 1st (Thursday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,
I haven't been posting lately because not much is new except for my divorce moving forward, but I've been reading all your posts.

Hath, I've been going to COSA, an IC, and a CSAT lately. Yes, all of them! There are raging debates over the issue that you're dealing with - do you get involved and try to force the SA to get help or continue help - or leave the SA alone? Are you being co-dependent, or are you just trying to keep your spouse on the right track?

All I can say is that every time my husband stopped going to his 12-step program and his CSAT, it led to a relapse. Especially if long work hours and the holidays were involved.

I can look back and state this very clearly now. I literally went through my husband's emails for the past five years and saw how each problem began with him skipping the meetings and blowing off the CSAT. It was painful to read, and I wish wish wish I was more aware of it - it was so obvious.

So all I can say is that I wish I had done more to keep him faithful to these very basic types of Reconciliation requirements. I think this is different from being co-dependent. I like the idea of a written contract. Then you don't have to say it over and over again, every time he misses a meeting.

I'm not living in your house, of course, but I think the most important thing is to make sure he's at least going to SOME meetings, no matter how busy he is, and no matter how you approach him about it. I wish I had done this in my house - things might have ended up very differently.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
dayatatime
♀ Member
Member # 17090
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath,

If you already gave him your boundaries and he violated them, he needs consequences, not a re-articulation of your boundaries. Consequences are so you can feel safe. You can't control him.

I am going through the same thing. SA decided he would blow off IC for a month and lied about it. He still goes to 12-step but my terms of R require both 12-step and IC.

I moved out of our bedroom and withdrew from any individual activities with him. We still do family activities together. I am not sure how long this will last. I have to be comfortable that he is taking me and the terms of R seriously. I also have to get over the fact that he is grandiose and unrecovered enough to think he can dictate what I need to feel safe.

I am kind and compassionate with him, but my concern is that relaxing one boundary leads to relaxing another... Which boundary comes next - acting out?

Sorry to be harsh. JMHO.

Good luck!

BS 50
WH 53
DS 11
DDays 9/07 and 10/10

[This message edited by dayatatime at 11:03 AM, December 1st (Thursday)]


BS 52
WH 55
son 13
ddays 9/27/07 and 9/1/10

Posts: 763 | Registered: Nov 2007
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope, a contract seems like what I was thinking but not formulating in my head. In writing, these are the boundaries, these are the consequences. I need to mull on it further tho to be sure it's the right approach.

Dayatatime, I have enforced some consequences. He's currently in his abstinence period, which ends mid-December for the class (since there is no CSAT at present, there is no other abstinence requirements outside of me). Before all this went down, and I even knew about SA, I told him I wasn't having any sex until we both had two consecutive clean STD tests six months apart, at a minimum, and that would also fall about mid-December. When he first brought up his work time constraints about the last six weeks of the year, that he would not be able to go to a CSAT and 12 step meeting on top of the class during those six weeks, I told him fine BUT I was not resuming any sort of sexual relationship with him until he was seeing a CSAT regularly, had a recovery and relapse plan in place, and had a home 12 step group he attended regularly with a sponsor. That we have to build the intimacy and sexual aspects of our relationship back with professional guidance, and you have to have those requirements to be able to do that. So in that respect I guess I have outlined my boundaries and consequences.

My sitch is a bit different in that there is no active animosity going on in either direction right now. Feelings and interactions in our house are largely neutral or positive with each other at the moment. Like I said before he is remorseful, transparent, will talk things out on demand, is more involved with me and the family, etc. We've worked very hard at that to make life more bearable and pleasant for us and especially the kids. He is going to the weekly class, so he's not doing NOTHING, at least in his head. And like many SAs in early recovery that gives him the false hope that he is in control and nothing else is dire right now, he can pick and choose treatment to a degree at his leisure, especially since he is slammed at work.

But I know it can get ugly quickly, when they start again to don't do what they say, then slip into deceptive behavior, then slip into SA acting out, etc when they don't have support in place and a plan for when the poop hits the fan. Which is why the aforementioned boundaries are some important. And like you said, it's a slippery slope. That is why I'm concerned.

Perhaps I need to discuss it with him one more time, ask if there needs to be a contract or something in writing so it's more clear. And that I want some attempts at attending meetings (he did mention yesterday maybe going to a sunday morning meeting because nothing else would work this week) and some effort to get on a CSAT's schedule for January, since often it takes a few weeks or longer to get in someone's schedule anyway. THEN after it's reiterated, I can enforce consequences if he doesn't man up this month.

IDK. Maybe it's stupid and I should just tell him he's not meeting my requirements and therefore he needs to sleep elsewhere for a while. Ugh.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
cheetabump
♀ Member
Member # 29596
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay for what is worth...my ME time, yesterday, Wednesday...I swam in the pool and did the hot tub here at the hotel I am staying at with DD.

It felt great!! I always loved swimming so it was definitely a ME thing!!

I hope you ladies (and gents) are picking your ME day and sharing what you did for yourself!!

Hath, I think maybe it wouldn't hurt to just remind him of your previous boundaries to R. I agree with the fact that everything was in the beginning and probably alot was being said, so to bring it up and to put it in writing may actually help him see the roadmap.

I think men in general need specifics to understand the road they need to be on. Not to say you need to hold his hand every step of the way, it really is up to him but after you give him this information...let go and let him do the work.

I guess I have been struggling with getting the initial boundaries off the ground. I did say some but it was mostly in the middle of a confrontation or mish-mash convo that I would like to make myself clear without any other stuff in the way.

I like the idea of putting things in writing, that way you have time to formulate what you want to say and keep it simple. It leaves no wiggle room.

That is just my opinion. I hope the kids are all better and you are getting room to breathe!

So, everyone...lets here what your ME day is going to be and then share what you did on your day...it can be 15 minutes but you must do something positive for you and only you!

have a good day all


Posts: 638 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: NY
hurt94
♀ Member
Member # 33734
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I finally went and got put on antidepressants and also sleeping meds to help me so that along with SAnon tonight is my me thing for now.

Also along the boundaries conversations I found a great list on the ww side forum of what betrayed spouses are going through and what ws need to be able to do to help them. I know it wasn't for Sa's but after I added a few of my own like sa treatment and counseling it was perfect. Just a thought. Have a good day ladies


BS: Me 33
WH: 32
Married 6 years, together 13
D:15 S:14

Posts: 79 | Registered: Oct 2011
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For what it's worth, my vote is for writing it down, both boundaries and consequences, giving them to him *but then let it all go*. Let his recovery go, his actions or inactions will speak for themselves. I have had a very hard time learning this- letting go of his recovery- and I still struggle with it. Be very aware, don't set any consequences you won't enforce.

For me, I'm not his parent, I'm not his recovery cop and I don't want to continue a relationship with an addict who doesn't own and actively work his own recovery and sobriety. I refuse to allow him to put me in a position of responsibility over *his* recovery & sobriety. *HE* needs to take ownership of those things. In my sitch, it has turned out for the worse. But for others, tmy and IRN and 7yrs among others, it has turned out positively.

JMO!


~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina, that makes sense. Just like Cheetah said, because he's a man, he needs it spelled out, because he's SA, it needs to be clear and non-negotiable. But you are right. Write them down, once, WELL, give it to him and let it go. Execute consequences as needed. Perfect solution. Thanks everybody for helping me think it through.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina, that makes sense. Just like Cheetah said, because he's a man, he needs it spelled out, because he's SA, it needs to be clear and non-negotiable. But you are right. Write them down, once, do it WELL, give it to him and let it go. Execute consequences as needed. Perfect solution. Thanks everybody for helping me think it through.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 8:25 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My me thing lately is getting more organized with time management, so I actually have time to go to my stuff and find ME time. Got a wall calendar, put everyone's stuff on it so they can see. Set up an electronic one on my Nook with automatic reminders on recurring events, so I have one I can carry with me on the go. Trying to organize time slots for the domestic front so that stuff gets done. It's all part of committing to the whole new lifestyle, so I have time to develop new good habits and no time to keep up the old bad ones. Well, most of them anyway.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chiming in on the written contract or at least a heart felt talk without angst. My SAfWH would bristle at the written part. He still has some trouble with the that kind of stuff. But it's logical that he might "forget" all the conditions. He may not be trying to weasel out of anything, and he apparently is working a program of sorts.

But I have BTDT. Unless they are prodded to some degree, it simply isn't going to happen all the way. This is painful stuff. White knuckling is easier in the short-run at least.

I find if I use "I" statements I am heard. ("I am feeling uncomfortable because you haven't been to a meeting for 7 days") That, of course, wasn't the case in early recovery.

Besides the HF sundae, which really isn't self care, I had my nails done. Bright red with a Christmas tree on the ring finger. I have a groupon for a massage tomorrow, cut and color on Sat., bought some beads to make some bracelets on Sat afternoon...

I haven't really felt like decorating for Christmas. H is rather Grinch-like. As an active addict he was just an ass. I ran around like Pollyanna trying to convince him that family togetherness was wonderful. DD1 is indifferent to the fuss, although he loves the family part, but he is a bit down because his gf of 3 years is no more, and who knows where he'll be on Christmas, he's an RN, works 7P to 7A so he's nocturnal. DD2 is also in an ancillary medical field that will require he work on Christmas Day. He used to be my elf, decorating with me, shopping, cooking, etc., but he lives 60 miles away.

Decorating is hard work. Up and down the stairs many times, won't help my aches and pains.

To my great surprise and delight, I came home after my nail appt to find my Christmas wreaths on the door, my little houses were on the foyer table and the outside lights were being prepared for installation. And dinner was prepared. With vegetables. Now, if there were Christmas Carols on the CD player, I would have sworn I was in the wrong neighborhood! But no...dear Fwh had done it. For me.

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 9:38 PM, December 1st (Thursday)]


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
cheetabump
♀ Member
Member # 29596
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, December 1st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awwww ScaredyKat...how nice was that!!

That made me smile...sometimes it is the simple little things like that to jump start the holiday feelings.

Glad H did that for you!!


Posts: 638 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: NY
GeniusOrAFool
♀ Member
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, December 2nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has anyone tried the Recovery Nation (recoverynation.com)online program? Worked through the lessons ~ both the saWS and BS individually... and then the couples program together? If so, please let me know what you thought of the program.

Thanks!


I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope


Posts: 454 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, December 2nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Haven't finished recoverynation, . SAWH started & then dropped out.

Yay SK & her SAfWH!


Hugs!~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, December 2nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not done Recovery Nation, but it's on my to-do list to check it out. There are others on here that have recommended it.

Wanted to share a couple of things.

First, since I missed last week's class I had to look through WH's stuff to find the homework assignment he picked up for me. In his stuff, I found my library copy of the 5 Love Languages, which has been missing for a while. WH is not a pleasure reader at all, I wasn't sure how my book got in his stuff by mistake. But then it clicked, he must of figured out one of my languages is Acts of Service, hence all the help around the house. So he is trying to help me outside of all the SA stuff. Interesting.

Second story in the same vein. last night I couldn't find my phone before I went to bed (which I use for an alarm since it doesn't wake up the kids too). I asked him to wake me up within a 15 minute time frame, because I knew today he'd get up early and be getting ready before I had to get up. He came woke me up right at the beginning of the time frame, and cuddled and kissed me awake for the whole 15 minutes. It was so nice, not sexual at all, just intimate. Said something about wanting to wake me up like that every morning. So IDK where THAT came from, but he's reading and learning something somewhere.

Third, about the contract. Kat, WH is a contract lawyer so it would be right up his alley, LOL. The only real issue with doing it this way is he finds loopholes and mistakes in contracts for a living, and he's DAMN good at it. So I have to be very careful about it, be very explicit and leave no room for other interpretation. But yeah, I am versed in the When you...I feel...if you...I will stuff, the "I" statements, etc so that part I'm not as worried about.

I need to do my nails today. That will be my self care. I don't really do much in the way of makeup and such, and I need to get back on the wagon with it because it makes me feel so much prettier. It's going to be a uber busy weekend with my two girls' birthday party, the class, and my oldest is featured in some sort of art show so I need to do something for me today before it gets too busy.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, December 3rd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, no one could ever have accused me of being a glamour girl; I was a hippy...no makeup for me! But after I switched from teaching first graders for so many years, and didn't have to worry about poking them in the eye, I decided I wanted to do something about my paper thin nails. I love having beautiful nails! Advice: you young girls, take care of your hands, sun screen, rubber gloves. You will always notice your hands, and nice hands will help you deny the effects of age that you see in the mirror!


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2923 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
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