Good news on the mini breakthrough! I hope it helps him recognize other patterns too.
Thank you for the poem, itís a great reminder that our future is what we make of it- good or bad.
Re: bringing out the KISA in SAWH. It seems to be doing so, but from my POV Iím disgusted by the knowledge that my SAWH will only participate in our family life, our Ďrelationshipí, when he thinks Iím (possibly) seriously ill. I mean, really?! Youíre (SAWH) so d@mn3d concerned about your image that youíre ready, willing and able to play KISA H when you think others will see you doing this and admire you for it. Iím so angry about it!!
OTOH, I too want to be a grandma someday & Iím not going to let any of this stop me! So- any SA BSí lurking or reluctant to get tested- please do. The risk to your health is real. Donít put it off.
I had my pre-op testing done Wednesday. Blood tests, EKG, etc. Apparently, Iím doing fine other than the growth Iím going to have removed. Despite being heavy, my BP & cholesterol are normal & I donít have a cold or the flu. And I have some kind of mild heart arrhythmia that Ďdoesnít need treatment as long as Iím otherwise healthy.í As if I needed *more* news about the weirdness within my body.
Truly, I feel that this *growth* comes from the emotional stress and trauma Iíve lived with for the last few years. Yesterday I bought a copy of Christiane Northrupís Womenís Body, Womenís Wisdom. The first section primarily deals with how emotional traumas frequently manifest as physical ailments. I found myself taking notes and nodding along. Itís a fat book & Iím looking forward to reading it.
A co-worker reassured me that itís likely that this is *just* a benign growth- her grandma has had several of these and has always come out ok. I canít tell you ladies how much hearing her grandmaís story has reassured me. I donít know whatís going on with me, but I feel better. I went to therapy Wednesday afternoon & we talked about all of this. Having a safe place to share feels so much better.
Iím really upset knowing SAWH will share my health issues with EAOP and I talked about this with IC. I feel violated already, I feel like I have no privacy even within my own body, I canít trust SAWH to hold even this boundary. She told me I need to tell him this- and then recognize and remember that what he *does* after* I tell him is his choice and I have no control. This issue is that *I* know he has resumed with EAOP despite his denials. So I mentioned this to him very briefly last night and he looked down, blushed and told me he would respect my right to privacy. Which means itís too late. Heís told her. I will bring the topic up again tonight after work, but other than confronting him and telling him my boundary itís out of my hands. *sigh*
I canít believe this is my life.
Do something nice for yourself this weekend!
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 8:57 AM, November 18th (Friday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
Cheetah, I have noticed that sometimes the iitap site does not always pull up the same lists of people for me every time. I'm not sure if it's a database error or what, but sometimes it pulls up twice as many people in my area. It's also possible that the therapist you are looking for moved. I find it weird you don't have a lot of options in NY state. I'm in the armpit of the midwest and I have tons to choose from. Well tons if you consider candidates too in your net as opposed to only fully accredited CSATs
I'm procrastinating my class homework. I don't have a lot to share ATM about my sexuality, healthy or otherwise, LOL. I feel like anything I share is hurtful to others. The whole vasectomy thing, for starters. There are several in the group that have spouses highly addicted to porn and nearly all find porn/strippers horrifically morally offensive. I don't really have any issues with porn itself, although I do agree it's a horrific industry to work in, so I never had any problems with it until DDay blew up in my face. Same with strippers, where I grew up, strip clubs were largely high-end joints and were heavily regulated, so any illegal activity happened offsite.
These were things I was not into at all myself but didn't mind WH having occasional indulgences (which obviously was not what was going on, it was way more than occasional and escalated into other things). I guess I see it all like alcohol, not inherently bad in and of itself but very bad for an addict. I'm almost 100% sure no one else in group shares that opinion and many would be highly offended by that. Like I am betraying the sisterhood, LOL. And I accept that maybe it was my way of codep denial or whatever, but it's way to early in my therapy to make that call now.
IDK. It's stupid. I don't know why I should worry at all about what I say, they aren't going to pass judgement on me. Maybe I'm just not ready to face the topics yet.
I too didn't and don't have anything against porn itself and believe its like alcohol as well, perhaps the codep in me too. I was and never will be interested in it but when I met my husband I knew he indulged occassionally (or so I thought) and it didn't bother me I thought its normal. Maybe its more of a common opinion than you think and its really after all the pain that "we" really start to hate it.
Keeping yourself healthy and safe is number one.
We'll...I think things would have been different if I forced him to see a CSAT. He refused and said he is not compulsive SA.
Last nite...more anger and he hung up on me. He lied about being somewhere and said I could not see him because he was across the street. Started an argument in front of the kids, I walked away. Anger every single day.
Today sent me an email, to my work, about our marriage. Started with Continue your fantasy world....
Accused me of cheating, has been going thru my phone at nite and said that he "knows" I am dead to him. Says the devil has put a wedge between us and God know the truth.
Are any of you experiencing this? Geez, I really wanted this M to work.
Torn, it sounds like his fantasy land is crashing all around him. He's projecting guilt, acting out, whatever it takes to not face reality. ((hugs)) It's not your fault. You did not create his reality, he did.
It's good that you're in IC. You could also seek out a CSAT for yourself. They will understand what you are going though - probably more than a regular therapist can. (I know this b/c I've seen two regular therapists and one CSAT.)
Also, would you consider going to a support group for spouses? I went to COSA meetings a few times, and it was tremendously helpful. If you're lucky, you'll get a mixed group - most group members will still be living with their SA spouses, but others will be separated and/or divorced. By listening to them, you can start to get an idea of what it's like NOT to be living with your husband.
My CSAT also recommended Al-Alon if you don't have COSA nearby.
Well, I am not offended if anyone thought/thinks porn was okay.
I am raising my hand here. I too, didn't really have a big problem with it. HOWEVER, I definitely understand the changes I saw in H and now know that porn can be addictive.
Not everyone who drinks will be come an alcoholic. However, if there are certain predispositions, upbringing, an alcoholic can be born.
Cigarettes, alcohol, pot, porn, gambling. All addictive.
Porn used in moderation and even to enhance ones love life still would be okay with me...IF...H didn't esculate and "replace" me.
I now know..that this is going to be a problem in our life. I am grateful to have the understanding now about what has happened to him but it is a hugh problem that guarantees to get worse if he doesn't get a handle on it.
Getting him to see it and admit it..well, that is the bigger problem at the moment.
I feel a bit depressed over this today. Still sitting on my a** not talking about it to him. I resent that I am in this position.
We used to talk about everything. Now I am questioning our whole time together. Did he always have these little white lies?
I do notice tho..he gives me kernels of truth in every lie. So, I guess in his head, he hasn't lied.
For instance, if he hit an ABS..he will also go to Best Buy or such. So, if I ask or he just volunteers info..he will say...I went to Best Buy. So, the truth is there but by omission he lied.
He already knows that what he is doing is not right or acceptable so this is his way of wiggling out of his guilt or not telling me the truth.
Well, ladies (and gents?) I will say I am so glad that I stumbled on SI. I don't know where I would be at this point in my life if I didn't have you.
Glad everyone is getting on board with STD testing! So important!
Keep the faith.
Cheeta, I'm right there with you. I am not allowed to discuss or mention H's multiple betrayals. If I try, he shuts down or goes to bed. I have no idea how we are supposed to move forward if I can't address his issues and ask him to work on them.
Unfortunately, I am dealing with this by drinking at night. Not good, I know. I am tired of stuffing down my feelings, but in order to keep the peace (and spare my son the chaos), I need to numb myself. How do we open up the discussion in order to heal??? Damned if I know...
sabina, I agree with you that your emotional trauma can minifest in so many other physical ways. Good luck and hugs to you my dear.
Hath: You are right. He sent me a 3 page email about our marriage. I think he was thinking I would back away from the divorce or something. It doesn't make the pain lessen. Its like a road you know you must travel but are scared.
Laststraw/Ghost: I felt the same way. I have those feelings now of abandonment and being tired. I was drinking alot and now I am back to food. What I will tell you is that you will learn that you can not change him. I waited 2 years for that realization. I don't SEE any changes except his anger escalating because I'm no longer focusing on him. Do you see your SAWH get angry/avoid/walk away from you when you try to confront him. Yes, that's what they do. Rug sweep, Bull crap! I am done. I can make it, me and the kids. Laststraw: You can too!
Remember, if he gets out, he will see that its not you. You can always get back together, even after a divorce, but at least they knew that you had your dignity and respect yourself. They always blame shift but when you are not with them they see, a little, its not you. ITS THEM!!!
I am scared, I cry in my car, but I have to strong for my kids, for me. I read and re-read what others have said here on SI, I deserve better. People don't live like this. Damn, I miss just being a peace. Marriages have problems, yes they do, but jeez. The days he is not around and it is just me and the kids I feel great. No tension, walking on eggs shells.
TooManyYears, who doesn't post often anymore opened my eyes with her posts. She has angry teens because she stayed for the kids. Screw that!
We all get down, but I am hopeing that each of you stand up fight for YOUR LIFE and YOUR Happiness.
I remember those posts by TMY. It is one of my fears. The problem is even if we split, my parenting is affected nonetheless because of all the unresolved anger/etc I haven't dealt with in IC yet. I have a very short fuse and it affects my parenting. My 3YO is already saying at breakfast, if I eat all my bacon, you will be happy? And if I actually smile, he asks if I am very happy. Which in turn makes me sad. Gah.
We haven't gotten to the critical point yet where he has proven he can or cannot do the work. He is going to classes. He is going to 12 step. He hasn't been there long enough to get a real sponsor, but he has a temporary one. He recognizes he needs to go back to a CSAT asap, but he doesn't like a lot of the options nearby and the last six weeks of the year he works like 80 hours a week, so it's very hard to work stuff like that in without it being obvious he's taking the time off work. He's ordered the 12 step books and is doing step work, etc. So we are not at a do or die stage. Yet.
I hate the not knowing. And at the same time, knowing some of the things that will happen no matter what I do. I hate knowing he's not acting out at all, because I can verify it, but that I still don't feel I can trust him yet.
And I broke down crying last night watching UP with the kids. Because the old man had a soulmate that loved and honored him for a lifetime. And still had some regrets. I know, I'm a mess.
Triggerfest for me all day yesterday while I was working, compounded by SAWH reaction when I told him about it once I got home (his standard answers: I'm stuck in the past, I need to let it all go, I need to stop shaming him, etc). Then got into an argument with DS16- for which I take responsibility. But my goodness, I'm human too & the day was just $h!tty from one end to the other. Slept in a little this a.m. despite needing to get stuff done.
I just had to get this off my chest- I'm off to work.
Last night when H was in the shower I decided to snoop (no the word is "verify")
I mentioned he went to "kinky's" Adult video store and was there 15 minutes.
I was not sure if he went in but I pretty much surmissed he did but I did not see any new stuff in his "hidden" stash.
I found that he had stuff in is DVD player case which he takes to work everyday.
UGH...the kinky stuff was there alright!
I was up til 3am thinking about the sh*t trying to fall asleep. I almost got up to ask you guys what to do. I figured no one would be awake so I managed to let it go and go to sleep.
My options that I was thinking about was:
1) take the stuff out and say nothing.
2) scratch them a bit so they wouldn't play(co-dep? right!)
3) just bring them up to him and say something.
I opted for #4...which was do nothing for the time being. Nothing is going to change over night. I am trying to pay attention to MY behavior in all of this!
I feel sick and hopeless over all of this. It just feels hopeless.
Son's birthday today. He's turning 30!! Got nothing yet. Then Thanksgiving!
There is never a good time!!!
Gotta run...hang in there guys!! We are all in the same boat!! (HUG)
Sabina, hugs. You have a lot of stuff on your plate. Good for you for cutting yourself some slack.
Cheetah, ugh. So he's watching porn at work? That can't be good. That's the kind of stuff that will get you fired. I'm fairly certain my WH doesn't and hasn't done that, he has been so careful about not giving his work number out to therapy/12 step people, refusing to have convos with them at work, calling me to look up their numbers so it won't show up in his web history when he does step out to call them, etc so I'm hoping that means he wouldn't dare do anything suspect at work. I guess you can never know though.
Here's my take on it Cheetah. When we were going through informal disclosure, WH was still thinking he just acted out because he had the opportunity until he got I caught. I had to point out he MADE time, and time during Xmas holidays, when he was laid off, appointments at 9am on Monday mornings, that it became more frequent, etc before he would accept that perhaps he had a problem. That healthy people do not pay for sex and lie to spend that time away from their family when they are LAID OFF AND ARE BORROWING MONEY TO PAY THE BILLS, for example. I'm thinking when you are ready to confront, it will be similar for you. Healthy people do not sneak off to ABS to buy porn to watch at work, and risk their job and possible prosecution. Their stupid little compartmentalized fantasy land does not see it that way. I had to explain things like that several times before he realized THAT was the reality, not "everybody does it" and whatever other stupid nonsense he was using to rationalized it in his addled brain. But you are right, finding the right time to do it is critical.
[This message edited by hathnofury at 11:31 AM, November 19th (Saturday)]
Just to clarify. He is not watching at work but outside in his car on his DVD. Probably during breaks or lunch.
He has never been one to do the internet thing so I don't think I have to worry about that for now.
I am doing okay today for the time being.
Thing for today for all of us is:
Let go for the moment and do something nice for ourselves.
Even if it is just to sit with a cup of tea and look at a magazine.
I realize I have children, grand...that are depending on me to make the holiday nice.
So, with that thought in mind...everyone...let's just forget about the knuckleheads for a moment and think what we need to get done to make it a nice day for us...just us!!
Hope this helps. I sometimes have to talk to myself this way to get moving!
We are not crazy, we are not wrong, we are not trying to control...we are trying to survive the nightmare!
Hang in there everyone...we have each other and we are not alone!
[This message edited by cheetabump at 4:12 PM, November 19th (Saturday)]
[This message edited by cheetabump at 4:10 PM, November 19th (Saturday)]
[This message edited by cheetabump at 4:08 PM, November 19th (Saturday)]
Also for you guys, my sawh didn't use at work either at first, then it was breaks, then it was too and from work and breaks, then it was throughout the day (didn't use internet at first) eventually leading to hours wasted at work and at home, 7 years of it growing more out of control, until this year affairs began. Keep talking about it, keep vigilante, and most of all pls don't fall victim like I did to believing "its only..." Hugs to you all and thanks for letting me vent.