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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
Remains
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Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wd really like to hear from WS. I don't want any opinions from BSs as I think they will prob feel as I do. Tell me if I am wrong.

Basically, we got together Oct 2009, DD May 2011, he supposedly slept with her 4 times, his ex, Dec 09, Jan, Feb & July 2010. There are many things that indicate he is being truthful, and a few big things that indicate not. Since it all came out we spoke about it intensely for the first couple of weeks. Then we hit a block. I wanted to know what triggered the July episode, why after 5 months break would he go back, and after we were a definite item by then, 9 months into our relationship. And why did he stop seeing her then. Why not just carry on. Trigger for July was the main thing. He clammed up, defensive, angry, would walk out, go home, we wouldn't see each other for a few days, back together, nothing mentioned, til I brought it up again. That question along with others. He talked now and again, but mostly angry, defensive, walked. And we spent pretty much the next 6 months like that. For every 10 times I brought it up, he would calmly chat about once. And he did finally chat about that issue. But...the answer was nothing major. I wonder if he did not know the answer and that's why he clammed up and walked. Tho in my head he was hiding something major. He is an avoider BTW. He does not like to deal with 'issues'.

Anyway, throughout that time, and up until a couple of weeks ago, he has told me the odd lie. Basically to do with not wanting to discuss something I ask him. His way of avoiding the subject. Often to do with sex, her, me. I didn't want to know gory details, but I did want to know basic. e.g. was she kinky. Is that why he cdn't resist going to her. He would say no. I think the answer is yes. And about 3 wks ago, another blatant lie to me on the sex subject, I broke with him & told him I cd not be with a liar. I have made it clear all the way through that he shldn't lie to me and that my way of dealing with it is to talk all through calmly but honestly, for him to answer my questions that swim in my head. He wanted to get back together, I told him I cannot if he ever lies to me again, big or small. And that I need to talk about it all. All. To the N'th degree. And possibly again. And no more lies. He felt he could manage this. I told him fine if he can't. He said he can. So, he was finally more truthful. I have spoken to him several times and he has answered all. We have been calm. And all seemed really good. (Only been for 2-3 wks since our last split tho)

Then...I bring up a subject last Fri that I have not brought up for a very long time, unrelated to his ex, but all part of the same kind of behaviour, and it happened around the same time frame. So it was while he was a very bad bf and very slyly cruel. BTW, he has done a complete 180 on the good/bad bf behaviour. Is now pretty darn perfect with general behaviour and attitude. Obviously the affair scenario sours it all. I brought that issue up, he got cross, 'not this again, we have done this so many times (but this was in the period following the incident in early 2010, and maybe once or twice in the aftermath of DD) and so Fri he refused to talk. No chance of chat whatsoever. We were at his house, and so I went home. I feel I have now got to the end of the rd. This, after him finally saying he'd talk when I need to etc. And I thought we were getting somewhere, as did he. After him agreeing no more lies, and to talk, HE thought we getting somewhere! He now says that he can't take it any longer, that he can't take the constant accusations (there were no accusations, just chat, but I do believe that there may be other occasion/s with a.n.other due to a few suspicious circumstances, evidence, and his affair pattern of behaviour I do bring this up here and there and have made it clear I believe there is something else he hasn't told me). But his refusal to chat, no accusations whatsoever fuelled that (tho I did throw it at him after he got cross at me for wanting to talk, and after his refusal to talk). I am fed up with this issue, I just want to talk til its all gone from my head. He is fed up with this issue and feels he has talked enough and wants to bury it now. I have told him we've only just started due to him refusing to talk so many times and lying here and there. We just got to a point at which he was willing to talk, and be totally honest. And now he has pulled away again. Is this just normal behaviour? Am I expecting too much? When is it enough talk? How does it feel as a Wayward for yor partner to want to bring it up and go through it to the N'th degree? Does it help? Am I being unreasonable in my expectations?


Posts: 5 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: England
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Remains - You are not unreasonable. You need to talk it all out and he needs to answer questions, as many as you have and as many times as you ask.

I wanted to know what triggered the July episode

Having said that, it is his responsibility to dig deep to figure out his "why". You are exactly correct about wanting to know the "perfect storm" for the July episode. That holds a big key.

But, it is his job to do. It is not your job to figure it out. He needs to go to IC or read books or whatever. He needs to give all the details to someone neutral who can put the pattern together.

He needs to make the relationship safe for you. That means full transparency, no contact with the affair partner or anyone you have a bad vibe about, and do whatever he needs to do to make you feel safe.

You cannot reconcile alone.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

noescape - You had a lot of good questions and comments, but I don't have time and Baxter has done a great job of addressing them. I just wanted to comment on one thing.

Finally, its not the first time I have heard that possibly she cant trust me or feel safe; is it because bad behaviour has repercussions?

There are a couple of reasons why you are not "safe". It is not because of repercussions of bad behavior - most WSes can handle those and they possibly welcome them... One reason for your wife is that she avoids intimacy. The "relationships" that she eventually developed with those online trolls were not real relationships. The things she told them were currency - specifically engineered to keep them interested. They were not her deep dark secrets.

Your wife learned long ago that intimacy hurts. The people that she trusted most failed her. It is easy to sit back and say "hey, you're an adult now, grow up", but we carry around all the ages we ever were inside. That little girl who was betrayed and violated responds emotionally in the way she always has.

There is something else called compartmentalization. That is a survival skill that everyone has, but which is developed to a higher degree in children who have gone through abuse. You need to put the hurt in a box so that you can survive. So, yes, she can put on the veneer of being normal, meet you, get married, etc. People who are able to compartmentalize do that.

(As an aside, if you ever want to see what child sexual abuse does to people who cannot compartmentalize, check out sexual abuse survival forums as a secondary survivor. You will see people (mostly women, but a lot of men also) who cannot make friends with anyone, who subsist on government handouts because they cannot hold down a job, who a quivering masses of jello... because they cannot put the hurt in a box enough to be able to go on with their lives.)

Another aspect to someone being "safe" is "will he believe me?". Consider this infidelity you are suffering through - how does it feel when your friends in real life say "come on, get over it", or "you must not be giving her what she needs", or "just kick her out", or "you need to move on", or "it's human nature", or whatever minimization is given? How does that feel? How does your PTSD feel?

An abuse victim gets that, too. Whenever you say "she says there was abuse" or "it was so long ago" or "you're an adult now" (i.e., "get over it"), that minimization hits the exact same way. Probably deeper, because the little girl who was violated is receiving that message. Confirming the initial message of "you are not important" and "I can violate you" and "you have no power".

The absolute worst thing a child sexual abuse victim can hear is "I don't believe you" and all of those minimizations say exactly that.

By the way, it does not have to be child sexual abuse. Any kind of child abuse can cause these responses. Think back, really think back. If you were 5 years old and abandoned emotionally by your parents, what would your world view look like?

I am now at the juncture where I really dont care about her issues

This is good. These are not your issues. These are her issues. She needs to dig deep, look for them, process them, and share with you what she discovers, when the time is right. It is not your job to figure this out.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, February 28th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi I would like to get some feedback from ws. DD#1 aalmost 2yrs ago. I know it was PA, WS still won't admit. Since that day he swore NC but I still felt he was disconnected with me. Ater several failed attempts to get the truth, I stopped asking. His behavior screamed he was still in A but he went underground deep. I found evidence that its still ongoing. Once again I haven't caught them together but found out how they were communicating. He has now picked up a pretty sig porn addiction and ow likes to send XXX pix.
My question is does it sound like he's emotionally involved or is this some sex thing with OW that he can't stop. He's been dam near perfect for the last few weeks and has been initiating sex again with me after a looong dry spell. I have not confronted yet. I know he will say its just pic exchange and he doesn't care about her. Don't you think there has to be some type of emotional involvement for him to risk our M. I made it clear if he broke NC, I would file D. He tells me he loves me and only me? I just don't get it. Is he acting with me and has her in a little box on the side or does he love me and into something that he is having a prob getting out of. Basically I guess I'm asking...could someone have a LTA and not have feelings. I'm rambling sorry but I am just baffled as to why he would take such a chance..thank you


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..divorced slut who prefers committed men, specializing in befriending and bopping the fathers of her kids team mates
Status..%&$#@?$

Posts: 3974 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
BaxtersBFF
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Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ostrich,

I'm not an LTA WH, but given what you describe, it seems like there is an addiction-type thing going on. Not sex addiction, but addiction to the A and the AP. It is very tough to stop, even when facing loss of you wife and kids. We see it here all the time...

The problem with the addictive side of the A is that the emotions get wrapped up in it.

This is my opinion, and not everyone agrees, but I think that the emotions are very real to the WS while they are in the A. Once they are out, then we can look back and see how nuts we were and how off base everything was...but that is all retrospect.

As far as how your WH is acting now, he is pretty good at compartmentalizing. There might be some different dynamics going on since it went underground and he knows you know, but until he can get away from OW, he isn't going to see what he is doing to you. The BS's here can give you a lot of help regarding your next step.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Ostrich80
Member
Member # 34827
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, February 29th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Baxter...thank you, that explains a lot. Only thing is, he doesn't know I know. I haven't confronted. I'm just having a hard time accepting that he really likes her. Before on first DD, I believed him when he said she ment nothing. That can't be the case now. Ouch that's a toughie. You made some great points, thank you so much for the insight. Just don't know what to do becaause I really just want to ignore it but I can't....haave to get rid of this knot in my stomach. Ugh


BS..me
WS..him
Been with him over half my life
4kid
DD1 10-01-09 DD2 02-12-12 discovered it never ended
OW..divorced slut who prefers committed men, specializing in befriending and bopping the fathers of her kids team mates
Status..%&$#@?$

Posts: 3974 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: midwest
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@unexpectedsong

By the way, it does not have to be child sexual abuse. Any kind of child abuse can cause these responses. Think back, really think back. If you were 5 years old and abandoned emotionally by your parents, what would your world view look like?

This really resonates with me. I can try to understand what she views the world as (though has hesitantly trickled through such information to me-but never been unguarded about it).

I was a victim of child sexual abuse myself (non-familial; I did make foolish mistakes which caused that); but I also had to deal with it (I think to a large degree I did). I'm not perfect. I am sure abuse hurts more when it comes from people who you trust and think should be the ones protecting you.

What can I do about it? I mean I DO care and care deeply. But I cant keep thinking/being made to feel that I am responsible for all of it (and hence try to fix it), or keep trying to help her out of a 'sense of duty' because I am her H and we have 3 children together (specially difficult after the multiple betrayals). yes I had a role to play in a broken M, but I cant take responsibility for her parents or poor relationship choices in her teens as much as I cant take responsibility for her A's.

If we dont have access to a good IC (believe me, they are CRAP where we live; she tried), what other options can I guide her to? And would she be willing to change anyway? (I doubt it after 2 years of continual 'working on it')

Anyway - thats me being far too concerned for her again and then trying to own her shit.

Regardless, I dont know if I can carry on except for 'the good of the kids' and its really killing me. I still have adrenalin induced sleepless nights when I stay up reading half the night; forums, books etc.. Even those nights when I force myself to lie in bed, the mind movies and puzzles she has left me with keep me up for half the night. I didnt think this would be the norm almost 2 years after DDay but its still my reality. We are more distant then ever and she has completely shut me out emotionally and conversationally (not that I am trying; cant keep communicating and being vulnerable with a continually deceitful person).

And so both our barriers are up high. And she is pregnant (ours). And I cant be there for her; to hold her or comfort her or just rub her feet or her back and tell her its 'going to be alright' or go for a walk with her (even suggesting one gets shut down). We went on a vacation a month ago-my 'before delivery/newborn' treat for her. i thought it would be something she could appreciate and draw closer to me for. It was fun, though there was almost no closeness between us. Nothing. And it just got worse (i.e. more distance between us) since. I dont know what I can do right... ever, in her eyes.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
BaxtersBFF
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Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:02 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ostrich,

It looks like you are already doing it and getting ready...

Gather evidence. Start setting yourself up with a safe exit. Confront, don't reveal your sources. 180. Out the OW and your WH. And be ready for the fallout.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
newbeg2011
♂ Member
Member # 31892
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Star
I am a WS . I think your H is keeping you on the hook plain and simple . If he is not willing to throw himself at your feet for forgiveness and show you true remorse. Whether he is seeing her again or not he is not worthy of you and your kids. I do believe is cheating behavior is still going on. I am so sorry for your pain. His actions I think show he does not want you to move on but he is not going to commit becUse he likes this double life style.


Never forget what I have done to BS but don't let guilt make me quit. STAY IN THE FIGHT ! ! !
WS 47 me
BS 47 her
5 Great Children
DD 1/15/11

Posts: 213 | Registered: Apr 2011
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, March 1st (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From what I have posted above-can you tell whether she is or isn't holding back information about a PA(s?). What is causing her to when she knows that R is something we both want badly

No, I can't. Doubt anyone else can either. 

The "R is something we both want badly" is really confusing me. I don't see this is what she wants at all. I think she's detached and y'all are in a "dry divorce". 

Whether she had a PA or EA plus kissing, which to me is a PA and sounds like some Jr. High convos I had is really not the main problem here.

While it might be another blow you have to endure it's more her thought process now that needs to be your focus as it's screaming at you. She is not working on herself or your marriage. 

You keep saying you can't heal this alone. Right. That's exactly what you're doing, though...or attempting to do.  

Look at what you have right now. Take realistic inventory of what you truly have to work with. Keep doing the work on your patterns and behaviors that enabled your previous choices. 

Part of WS's healing is firm clear boundaries with actions and people that are not conducive to our health and growth including those from ourselves. She just may be one of those you'll need to enforce your boundaries by removing her from your life other than as a co-parent. 

It's not an easy thing to acknowledge and accept. It may take time and some shoring up of your strength. 

Understand you can evaluate at any time and change the process and path as your circumstances change. Just don't keep railing at the dark when you're the one not turning on the light. 


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:48 AM, March 2nd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it's more her thought process now that needs to be your focus as it's screaming at you. She is not working on herself or your marriage.

Yes, I truly have/had given up at 'arriving at the truth'-its become such a sham. It shouldn't be so hard for someone to convince me otherwise if 'they're trying as hard at R'. Her thought process is completely opaque to me, as much as her feelings. All her commitments or protestations of sincerity have yet to be backed by consistent or repeated actions. I know her justifications trump all her needs to be open and honest about her part in the R process.

You keep saying you can't heal this alone. Right. That's exactly what you're doing, though...or attempting to do.

Why? Because I was the WS too. Because I gave her a sour M to brood over for 6 years on her own while (in and out of A's) and I had not realised how bad things had really gotten. I felt I had a lot to make up for. I didn't question her motives because all I ever see is what she shows on the surface; going in deep is not an option-not only not for me but for her herself. We had worked through some things like emotional honesty and needs etc... but, as I said, it stopped primarily because she had no interest in disproving or changing (on her own) her continued dishonesty (TT).


Keep doing the work on your patterns and behaviors that enabled your previous choices.

Thats where I dropped the ball, my R was suddenly mated to the M & her R. I didnt think independently of what I needed to do to make my own changes in and of themselves-for my own good. It was always a response to her need or to her complaint (which again would be from shallow, on the surface emotions. Not dismissing her emotions, but I never get to delve into her insecurities and truly understand why she is/feels the way she does)

Just don't keep railing at the dark when you're the one not turning on the light.

Thank you. Very insightful. EVERY BS & WS should understand this at some stage after DDay. Its ok to be shell shocked/PTSD initially, no one can fault you for that. Eventually though, you need to start functioning and healing again, whether your WS/BS wants to contribute or not; you are, after all, your own person. I allowed my M to define who I was as a person, it should've been the other way round.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
nlovemyfamily
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Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, March 2nd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Want to hear from WS or FWS about the payoff vs. the losses associated with long term A or if you D your BS then later realized the payoff didn't make up for the losses? Just can't comprehend any payoff when you lose S, family, home, extended family, pets, finances, respect, honor, integrity. BUt I realize there must be some payoff to stay in the A relationship in spite of the losses! Any ideas welcome from WS or FWS...please!

[This message edited by nlovemyfamily at 4:50 PM, March 2nd (Friday)]


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, March 2nd (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlove,

I don't think any WS here can answer your question. You want information/perspective from a WS who is unremorseful and who hasn't taken responsibility for their own actions. We aren't that type of WS. Those types of WS aren't allowed to stay on SI for very long.

So, from my perspective, there is no payoff.

I think there are two things that will make a WS believe in the payoff (my opinion only...). First, there is the drug-like effect of the A. It is real for many WS. It is pretty incredible. Second, there is fear of introspection. Those two things can combine in any ratio to create just about any possible outcome. There are other factors which influence these two things, but that is the basic gist.

There just isn't any payoff.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:09 AM, March 3rd (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF, if you'll allow me, I was the unrepentant WS after my first M disintegrated due to my A 10 years ago.

The payoff you ask? Just read up what's been going on with me. I'm seriously fucked up. I never had a M with the woman I chose to marry as a WS. 3 children and 9 years on, I found out that all I had was fantasy land (not that it was great, like sexless and no intimacy and no respect)... It was never real and it crashed and burned within the first year, only I didn't recognise the extent of the damage till 7 years later.

You want to know payoff? It's delusionment that you can have a normal relationship off what started out as an A. I believe some forums call it an affairage. The pay off is that you believe it "turned out all right, after all", only it didn't and never will because you're a lying betraying SOB who married his slut and now get exactly what you both deserve, the karma train, comeuppance, whatever you want to call it. The relationship is always distrustful and fraught with lies (don't I know it).

The perceived payoffs (such as emotional connection, soulmates, sex buddy, etc...) every single one will die in 3 to 6 months coz, guess what? Reality has the habit of rearing it's head and imposing lifes version of gravity on it. I.e. it's the fucking LAW and ain't nothing you can do about it.

Now put up with that and THEN see what happens further down the road (my fucking story)....

Can you see WHY society and humans instinctively consider cheating to be so WRONG? It's wrong not only for the betrayed but also for the wayward, only the wayward doesn't know it and may never. If I hadn't discovered my wife's A's 2 years ago, I might have never snapped out of my fog, even though the M was shitty and crap.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, March 3rd (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's early and I hadn't consumed enough coffee yet...so I responded to noescape thinking he was nlove...my apologies.

noescape,

I have read some stories of couples here who are the product of a previous A. My understanding of nlove's original question was that she wanted feedback from someone who was here on SI as a WS or FWS, but who was D or was with their AP. You came here as a BS, even though your current M is the product of an A between you and your wife. Is that the correct situation for you?

The basic understanding, if I'm reading your post correctly, is that you are right, relationships which start out of A's are never going to last. Basically, that relationship is built on sand. It will most likely fall. I think most people here would agree with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your issue now is that it has taken you 7 years to find that out. Your WW, who was your OW before, is the OW now with some OM.

I took the word "payoff" to imply something positive. There really isn't a positive payoff. The payoff you describe now is what we talk about as karma. That seems to be what you think you are experiencing now.

How do you get through this? Work on yourself. Even BS's need to work on themselves. I'm not sure how much time you spend reading in the Wayward forum, but there are a lot of people working through issues similar to what you talked yourself out of all those years ago. You are going through hell right now. But until you stop to take care of yourself, to be yourself and heal, you will not find a path out of patterns you have established. I think to some extent, getting out of the M is the easier part. Getting to the point of being a healed/changed person who can take care of themselves is much harder (my opinion only based on my experiences).

One final thing, my FIL married his MOW and they are still together over 30 years later. They seem happy. Heck, they are happy. But my FIL opened up to me a little bit many years ago and basically implied that he was sorry for what he had done and he wouldn't have made the same choice twice regarding his A. Deep down, I know he is a good person. He made some horrible mistakes in the past. He also knows that there is no going back. So he seems to focus on what he can do to make his life good right now. Somehow he has done it. I think his situation is pretty rare.

It's wrong not only for the betrayed but also for the wayward, only the wayward doesn't know it and may never. If I hadn't discovered my wife's A's 2 years ago, I might have never snapped out of my fog, even though the M was shitty and crap.
Yep. Sorry for your pain.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 7:22 AM, March 3rd (Saturday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 3rd (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry BaxtersBFF and others, I never went into the details of my story since I never came here into JFO (2 yrs out from DDay), I couldn't post as purely a BS, since I've been a WS and I had some very specific advice required since I had read up and posted and MC'd etc.. etc.. for over 18 months.

To set the record straight, I've adjusted my story for who ever is interested to read it. I hope it reflects on who I am without trying to make myself look like a victim or a 'right minded' person. I've made so many mistakes, I'm certain I wouldn't have made the same choice, as in the words of your FIL

he was sorry for what he had done and he wouldn't have made the same choice twice regarding his A

Sorry part is that it took me this long and something so traumatic to snap out of it completely, but thanks for your words.

as I read in someones signature here; the best revenge is to let the OP keep your cheating spouse. Well said.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
uncertainone
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Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, March 3rd (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Noescape, there are actually a few couples who have openly admitted their marriage was an "affairage" who post here. I would guess there are a few more that don't admit it as well.

Bottom line is those issues need to be adressed and worked on for both parties to be successful in the future whether together or seperate. 

If your wife refuses to work on hers there is nothing you can do but accept that and focus on your work. 

Make healthy choices for yourself and your future. While this is an excellent site, doing that simple thing will keep you out of it (other than to say hey and share your growth) in the future.

nlove, not sure if your post is a question or a swipe. I'll go with question.

Even if one doesn't lose all things on your list there is no pay off for those that have self respect. 

Like all else it's a spectrum of where people fall in the health band. Some don't care and feel the past more than justifies their choices. Even if that past is their sole creation of events.  They're happy so "you" just need to deal.

In those cases the payoff is obvious. They have what they want and everyone else can suck it. 

Now, how do either of those scenarios and all that fall in between help your understanding of your situation?


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
rcantbleveit
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Member # 30476
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to hear straight out from a WS if there truly is a way to reconcile a marriage after the affair?

How should a BS handle the situtation if they still love and want the marriage?

Do we go to NC so that you can think about what life is without us? Or does NC make you think we're done so you might as well go away in order for us both to get on with our lives with OP.

Do we continue to take your calls & be there when you need us? So that you know you're still loved, wanted and needed? Or does this make you take advantage of your BS?

Do you lose respect for us when we are still loving you, or did the A come about because you didn't respect us in the first place?

Is it true - once a cheater, always a cheater? I keep hearing this but I just don't believe it. People can have a change of heart, they can make a mistake, they can realize that the grass is not greener, they can realize that the problem wasn't their spouse or their marriage but the choices they made outside the marriage.

I don't think that all OM or OW are bad people just trying to destroy other people's marriage. I do think both parties are selfish in having A's but that doesn't necessarily make them bad people.

When I talk to other BS, they have so much anger and sometimes hatred toward their WS. They talk about how their W's lied and weren't there for them throughout the marriage and that things had been distant for years.

They are completely devastated by the A but deep down, they knew their marriage was not in a good place before it.

Sometimes I think I must be a mental case because I beleive we truly did have a good relationship. We enjoyed our time together and sex was pretty damn good. We have great kids/stepkids, great friends and good family.

We treated each other with respect and were very affectionate toward one another outside the bedroom.

Friends and family were shocked that he cheated and then left me. They are just as shocked that he still calls & comes to see me. Noone can understand what he's done or is doing. I don't see how he couldn't talk to me or want to see me.

Friends have been out with him & OW and they say their is no chemistry between them and she is nothing special to look at or talk to. Neither one of them trust the other.

She's constantly posting pictures of them on fb at parties and I think she looks great but he looks tired and older. He does dress up now in suits & tux which he never did while we were together.

The last time we got together, I really studied him and he looked beat up, tired, older, stressed. He keeps conversations impersonal except when talking about GS.

When she calls him, she's usually blasting him for something or she says the same things over & over. He is either pleading with her not to be mad at him or acting irritated that she calls.

I'm not a looser even though I'm sure most people on here think so because of me still holding onto hope that somehow someday we will make it through this, Love does last forever, it does conquer all, families can work through their conflicts and stay together.

According to friends, family & acquaintances, I'm an attractive, strong, loving, funny and trustworthy person that anyone would be proud to have as a friend & partner. I see all my flaws and although I do know that I'm loving, loyal, faithful and trustworthy, I don't feel attractive, funny or strong. I can see strength in how I've dealt with this situation & the fact that I keep getting up everyday trying new things & expecting the best to happen that day.

Reading SI has helped me in so many ways and confused me at the same time. I just want truth from a WS regarding what they want and expect from a BS?

I just want truth in why they seek out A's instead of putting energy and spark into their marriage?

I just want truth from my own WS in why he had an A instead of telling me that he has resentments built up against me that he can't get past and then not tell me what the resentments are.

Can a WS tell me how to get this conversation started when he does call to get together without him closing me off with "I called you because I want to see you, enjoy your company and laugh like we used to and I'm not going to answer questions or talk about that".


Posts: 226 | Registered: Dec 2010
confused82402
♀ Member
Member # 34616
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, March 5th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted about this in the general forum last week to vent but really wanted to get a wayward's thoughts about it.

My H had an affair with a co worker. They were good "friends" for years and in oct of last year the pa started. My h now realizes that it was an ea first bit doesn't really know when it slipped from friendship to ea. I found out in January of this year for sure. I pretty much already know something was going on I just hadn't confirmed it yet.

I thought he was really in love with her. I thought our marraige was over. So I told him if he loved her and wanted to be with her he could. I would leave peacefully. He said no and immidately went NC and hasn't looked back since. He did every thing right from day 1 without any prompt from me which is a good sign.

Things have been going really well. He's been transparent, open and honest and of course has not contacted her at all. Sometimes he has a hard time talking about it but will eventually come around.

Wweeks out a week ago we were in bed cuddling and trying to fall asleep. I was still awake but he had fallen asleep before me. He rolled over and I said something to him and thats when he said "I love you so much OW."
I reacted calmy and just got out of bed to leave the room and gather my thoughts. It hurt. Bad. He followed me and apologized profusely. He said it was a slip in words. He said he knew where he was, he knew he was with me and couldn't believe that came out of his mouth. I could tell he was truly sorry. I could feel it in his words and see it in his face.

My problem is I over analyze everything. So of course Ive been thinking about this a lot. I'm starting to wonder if he really does love her. I just can't understand how you can have a slip in words while professing your love to you BS. I can't wrap my head around it. I know the affair is over but maybe there are some residual feelings left for her.

Have any of you WS done something like this after you affair ended?


Me- BW
Him - WH
Dday - 1/16/2012

~Honey, don't try to make sense out of nonsense...you'll drive yourself crazy in the process ~ my momma :-)


Posts: 507 | Registered: Jan 2012
wanttofeelwhole
♀ Member
Member # 31830
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would really like to understand why a wayward would put time, energy and money into reconciliation if they are in no way changing their behavior.
I understand compartmentalizing and the fog. I understand using these tools in order to cheat. It is my personal opinion that compartmentalizing is how a betrayed forgives. I understand why and how affairs start and continue. I understand the thrill of secrecy and new love. I even understand the lame excuse of being confused and not knowing what you want, this to me is having your cake and eating it too. I even understand reconciling and falling back into the trap of external validation. In my opipion, there are reasons, not excuses, for the actions people chose. I am not trying to make light of affairs, but people make mistakes, it's a fact of life, it is your actions after the horror that define you as a person.
Is the attempt at reconciliation genuine or is it just to pacify the betrayed? Are you afraid to lose the life you have created, but unwilling to unveil your true self? I just cannot imagine putting in all that time and money and be faking it which is why I want to know. Do you realize when you're doing all this that it is not for real or do you believe you are in reconciliation?
I am not trying to be judgemental or mean. I am just trying to understand. I have made many mistakes in my life and even though I may have justified a bad behavior in my mind, I still knew it was wrong and I would not have wasted my time, energy or money "fixing" something when I knew my heart was not there.


Sorry I don't edit the typos
Love is giving someone the power to destroy you...but trusting them not to.-Unknown
For every good reason there is to lie, there is a better reason to tell the truth.-Bo Bennett
Memory is a complicated thing, a rel

Posts: 786 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Sliding down the backside of the rainbow
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