Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Depressed4ever (43230)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 6
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 2:30 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong -

Thank you for the response.

I am sorry you had a bad MC before. I hate to say this, but I don't think you are ready for MC, even a good one. There are too many issues for your wife that she needs to uncover first.

We tried to do individual IC and she was getting some help, but not the kind that can give me the answers we need to answer "why." We did uncover some things from her childhood, like that her uncle tried to molest her, she moved out of her parents house at 14 and had 2 abortions, he cheated on her, horrible things like that. Even her mom may have cheated on her dad when she was the same age as our daughters are now, and she remembers the argument. Okay, so that's all messed up and horrible. But does it explain anything for what she did 20 years into our relationship and 17 into our marriage and after having 2 kids???

But... what is it you want? Do you want her to admit that he is ugly? What then? If that helps you, then that is a good goal. But if you want her to examine her issues, focussing on the OM's appearances does nothing. Would it have been better if she found only hot men?

I think mostly they were hot men, as far as I can tell, but what do I know, I'm no judge of hot men. The first guy she met with was a bodybuilder - she made out with him and texted him hundreds of times, but never had a PA with him. The second PA she had, he was tall and handsome, but I found out he also had sex with men! He was a serial cheater and bragged that he had never been caught the entire 9 years he's been married. (I broke that streak for him - I told his poor wife.) The first PA, though, that's the guy I mentioned having a new picture of. He is 14 years younger than her, and just looks like a skinny dork. I just don't get it. I don't know if she would tell me he was ugly, if it would be just to make me feel better or if she was telling the truth having had some time to regret what she's done. I don't know what it would or could do, I just feel like I want to do it. I would think this guy is universally considered ugly, not something I could say about the second PA.

So, I don't really know what to do. I can't really handle all this, so I'm just doing the best I can to survive all this. I need help. She needs help. We can't really afford the kind of help we need right now, which is a direct result of what she's done. She wanted me to be more successful, well guess what - now I lost the job I had so we have less money. She wants me to be better in bed, well guess what - now I have images of other men having sex with her and my self esteem is shot to Hell and now I don't even want it as much as I used to. It all sucks.

Appearance has nothing to do with it... unless all the men look similar and they all remind her of someone. Otherwise, any OM is just someone else who posted and responded to her.

The only things she specifically requested were white, tall, full head of hair, fit, etc. Otherwise, we ended up with a range from as tall as me to taller than me, skinny as a rail to a bodybuilder. She definitely wanted to make sure they were good looking, at least to her.

This is the real issue. She needs IC. She needs to talk about what happened to her when she was a child that led her to feel that sex with strangers constitutes validation and why it is a comfortable coping mechanism.

This is something you cannot do. You know nothing about it, you cannot stay neutral, you are not a safe haven for her (be honest - you would blow up at any detail she gave you about the affairs or you would want to go kill the person who hurt her when she was little), you do not even know what questions to ask. This is too big for you.

I read about how I shouldn't blow up when she's telling me details, no matter how bad. Of course I want to kill them all, but I also want her to tell me, so I shouldn't shut her down when she finally opens up. I think I've gotten pretty good at that now, and she's so careful with what she will say now that she doesn't really say as much as I want her to.

I don't know who or where I can send her to get these answers. There's also the problem that many therapists don't really know what they're doing either. I met with 6 or 7, and none of them knew what I was going through, not one. I'm talking about the professionals that took my money to not know what to tell me.

Let's say this, though - if she admits what she's done and she's sorry and regrets it, and promises never to do anything like that again (which is another issue she's going to have to earn her way back to 99% trust, right?), and I love her still and know that even though this is the most difficult thing I'm ever going to experience (which I hope to get over in my lifetime), and that I'll work on trying to forgive her for the sake of our family, that's the path to R...so if i tell her there's nothing she can tell me that I will punish her for and I want to understand why, what can she do? What can I do? I think it's fair to say both of us want to heal from this, but we just don't know how.

I realize there are people who know more than I do out there, but I'm not an idiot. I'll read up on it and get a doctorate in this field if I have to in order to understand. I sometimes wonder if we're making this too complicated than it needs to be. I remember times when I wanted to screw around, but I didn't because I knew it was wrong and it would hurt her. I think maybe she just wanted to screw around, but I thought women were different, and that she would never do that to me.

Does your wife want IC to find out why she finds sex with strangers to be so compelling?

In our own do-it-yourself MC session we had today, she actually made a comment about how she wanted to know if her past played a role in all this. She knows how stupid she was being. We just don't know where to get good IC.


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
neverbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 32711
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks wwnomore and aubrie84.

WH called us both the same things and said the same things. It really tainted our relationship if he could so easily replace me with her.

Thank you again.


When the infrastructure of a building is gone the collapse is inevitable.

Posts: 934 | Registered: Jul 2011
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 2:46 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To neverbelieve and wwnomore and the topic of doing/saying things to the AP that you wouldn't with the BS...

This is another thing that really bothers me. My WW wrote some amazingly creative things to the OM, and her texts were really flirtatious, even with me at the time.

She's cooled off, and I want her to want me more than she wanted the AP's. If I bring it up, and she tries, I can't know if it's not an act. It really sucks because there's no way either of us can win.

I think if you're a BS like me, you would want to be desired, and if you're not desired it would hurt more. Especially now that it's on the forefront of our minds. Before, if she wasn't in the mood it wouldn't bother me as much as now, where I have to wonder if she would have been in the mood if I was someone else.

To avoid the second guessing by having a conversation about it, I would err on the side of showing as much sexual attention as possible, and calling them whatever names you think they'd like to hear. It could possibly build confidence when us BS's don't have much anymore.

As for the sexual acts, that is killing me, too. My WW [TMI Alert!] - - - - my WW had sex with this younger OM 4 times in one session, and sprayed 2 of those times. When I read about that, all I can think is that she was so extremely excited with the extra adrenaline that it was her. On the other hand, 4 times in one session is unusual, isn't it? And he bragged he knew how to move. This is so horrific for me, and I don' t know how to handle this. I feel like I'm competing in bed to be the best my own wife has ever had, and it's almost like I'm obsessed with making her spray, but she doesn't want to even try for me. If I did it at least once maybe I can put it behind me, but I don't know if it will ever happen.

Can a WW ever desire her own husband as much as an AP? Or are we just too much of the same thing, not new enough to be exciting?


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 3:01 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie84 - I noticed your D-Day being so soon! Then I read your story and my heart started to race because it seemed a little like ours...but then you stopped it!!! If only my WW would have done that, I would be so grateful. I wish she had pulled the breaks like you did. If I could only talk to your husband, I could go a long way in helping him. The fact that you stopped it and you were the one to confess will go a long way in his recovery.

You can tell your husband that many women who fall into this, fall all the way to the bottom. You found a ledge very close to the top, and you are both so lucky it wasn't worse. With the actions you've taken already, I think it would be incredibly optimistic for your recovery.


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LivingOn -

Thanks for the extra information.

We did uncover some things from her childhood, like that her uncle tried to molest her

This is where she needs to start. Did she spend time with her uncle? Did she love him before he tried to molest her?

The only things she specifically requested were white, tall, full head of hair, fit, etc.

What did her uncle look like?

But does it explain anything for what she did 20 years into our relationship and 17 into our marriage and after having 2 kids???

Clearly, her IC did not do a good job. The next things to find out are: what was her dating life like? You mentioned her abortions, the boyfriend cheating on her. And then what? How long were her relationships? Was she married before? What were her previous relationships like? What were the men like?

Once you have that background, then you go into the affair. What was happening 17 years into your marriage? Did a child graduate? Did you have a new job? Downsize due to the economy?

The first guy she met with was a bodybuilder

The second PA she had, he was tall and handsome

The first PA, [...] is 14 years younger than her, and just looks like a skinny dork.

Were there any men that she met up with that she did not engage in affair behavior with? Was there anyone that she looked at and thought, this won't work, and left?

I don't know who or where I can send her to get these answers.

Is she initiating any of this? Does she call up therapists and ask them about their experience? Why are you "sending" her anywhere?

There's also the problem that many therapists don't really know what they're doing either.

Did you ask them if they have experience with child sexual abuse cases?

I'll read up on it and get a doctorate in this field if I have to in order to understand. I sometimes wonder if we're making this too complicated than it needs to be.

How much have you read about child sexual abuse?

maybe she just wanted to screw around, but I thought women were different,

This sentence already tells me that you have not read a lot about child sexual abuse. Not sexual abuse of an adult woman, specifically about children.

Ideally, your wife should be doing all this and you should learning about secondary survivors (partners of CSA survivors) and about being a spouse of a sex addict. But it sounds like you are doing the research, so here goes.

Check this website and see which one your wife is:
http://addictions.about.com/od/sexaddiction/tp/sexaddict_types.htm

Here is something about CSA:
http://www.apa.org/pubs/info/brochures/sex-abuse.aspx

I will look up some better sites.

Keep in mind that, much like infidelity, it is not the "severity" of the sexual abuse that harms, it is the violation. Do not make light of what her uncle did to her (never think that, well, it wasn't like he raped her, or whatever). A kiss (or a correspondence) with someone else can destroy a marriage. An unwanted touch can rewire a little girl's brain forever.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 3:21 PM, November 11th (Friday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LivingOn,

Thank you. I'm in tears. Yes, Dday was not even a week ago.

Quite honestly, I was to a point, I had to either stop the A completely, or jump totally in and not look back. I knew in my heart of hearts, the A was not the route I wanted. As "good" as it felt in the short term, it wasn't what I really, really wanted/needed.

H knows that I found this site and have been posting and reading. He is encouraging me. I will show him your comments. Thank you.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"You can do it!" - R. Schneider


Posts: 5484 | Registered: Nov 2011
wwnomore
♀ Member
Member # 31675
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((LivingOn)) - I can feel the hurt in your words.

What I can say is that it is not about the sex, the pet names, or wanting AP 'more' at all.

For me, there was an element of 'new' in the sense that I didn't have the role of wife/mother to play in my A. So there was some freedom there that I took advantage of. That's not to say that I could not have been that way with BH. I chose not to do that, for various reasons (read my profile).

Not generalizing, but I would venture to say that most WW value and desire their BH much more than the AP. There is love, and history, and committment there that the AP can never ever compete with. Those things are way more important than anything an AP has to offer.

If you want to go further on the sex and spraying, send me a PM.


Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: Mid-Atlantic
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 4:16 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong -

Did she spend time with her uncle? Did she love him before he tried to molest her?

I'm not exactly sure of how much she loved him or how much time they were together, but obviously when an uncle violates your trust it must be bad. When he tried, she ran into the bathroom and locked the door, and he was begging her to come out, then begging her to not tell. She never told!

What did her uncle look like?

Spanish.

Clearly, her IC did not do a good job. The next things to find out are: what was her dating life like? You mentioned her abortions, the boyfriend cheating on her. And then what? How long were her relationships? Was she married before? What were her previous relationships like? What were the men like?

The kind of help she did get, that was good, though, was she realizes she's been extremely selfish and materialistic. She learned she needs to respect me more in every area (not just to refrain from cheating on me). There have been some major breakthroughs for her, but probably not down to the deeper levels. At least now she realizes she needs to look into her own past and figure out why she did it. She knows she has issues that still need to be worked on, and she's making the effort, which is helping me make the effort because it gives me hope we can R.
Other then that, she hasn't really had the kind of IC you're talking about yet.
Her dating life - she ran away from her house at 14 to live with her boyfriend, and I asked her why in the world her parents didn't go get her back, and she said that they were afraid they'd be deported if they did. She must have put her parents through Hell, but if it were me, I wouldn't care where in the world I would be sent to, I would go get my daughter! At all costs! So her boyfriend - his mom would buy them alcohol and even do drugs with them. I'm hearing all this and I'm stunned, too. You would never guess this about her. She was knocked up and had an abortion, and then it happened a second time while they were still together. Her boyfriend cheated on her with her best friend, and she was really mad, but took him back anyway. Keep in mind this is in freakin' Jr. High and High School! Next she got clean, left her boyfriend because of the drugs, and I think she was 17 when this happened. She had 5 other sexual encounters, I think they were one time deals, by the time she was 18, and then she stopped having sex. At 19 she became a Christian and was an angel until she met me when she was 21, and we started off as friends, then good friends, then best friends, then we realized we loved each other "that way." You could say I saved myself for her, so we tried to refrain from sex. Eventually she shared with me some of her past, but I didn't get the entire truth about her past back then. For instance, I only knew about one abortion. It was a lot for me to get past, but I figured she was a different person and I could forgive all of her past if I really loved her. (I didn't even learn of her second abortion until our 2nd child, 14 years into our marriage!!! The nurse asked her if she'd ever had an abortion, she said yes, then the follow up was, "how many." I was shocked when she said "two.") Anyway, we moved in with each other because we couldn't afford to get married, then we got married shortly after that. I was 20, and she was 24.
I think every man she's ever been with has been white. I'm pretty sure, anyway. I never felt the urgent need to ask about the men before she met me, which is much different from what I'm dealing with now.

Once you have that background, then you go into the affair. What was happening 17 years into your marriage? Did a child graduate? Did you have a new job? Downsize due to the economy?

Our little girls were 4 and 5. We were working together on the same project, and we were in a phase where we were both working from home. Amazing how creative she was with going out to meet OM's, and amazing I didn't catch on until it was too late. It only lasted for 2 months, but that was enough time for her to do what she did. Work was stressful, yes, but not enough to justify doing this.

Were there any men that she met up with that she did not engage in affair behavior with? Was there anyone that she looked at and thought, this won't work, and left?

Yes, she met with some and when she saw them in person realized how she wouldn't like them. Some of them she kissed and realized she didn't want to have sex with them. Some she developed very close bonds to, and one she just met him and had sex with him asap. It ran the gamut. It was like she was shopping for shoes.

Is she initiating any of this? Does she call up therapists and ask them about their experience? Why are you "sending" her anywhere?

My use of the word "sending" came across wrong - it's not like that. I mean, I did "tell her" we were going to figure out if we could work this out, and according to the "experts" we've met with we can, but otherwise I'm not "sending" her out for help. Sometimes it feels like I'm "dragging" her, but all in all, she really does want to get help. She has been proactive in getting the help she can, but it's not the kind of IC she herself wants in addition to everything else. The main reason she's not even calling is because we can't afford it right now.

Did you ask them if they have experience with child sexual abuse cases?

They'd probably all say "yes." In fact, we did meet with one together! One time. He said he was very familiar with these issues, yet he had no idea what it was like. He talked about how he was going to be such a great help and he was going to make all these changes for us, but all he talked about what he was going to do. I saw him a few more times individually and it's really all just fluff. I don't think he really understands what this is like.

How much have you read about child sexual abuse?

Not enough, I'm sure, but I do know the impact can do severe damage.

This sentence already tells me that you have not read a lot about child sexual abuse. Not sexual abuse of an adult woman, specifically about children.

I wasn't sexually abused as a child, but I thought about going crazy. I just never did it. I somehow feel there are still choices we are free to make, regardless. I can see how the past can come into play, and I'd like to try to understand, but I still somehow feel there was enough time that has passed she knew better and shouldn't have done this. Maybe it will help us both understand the "why" question. Not sure if it will answer the "how."

Thank you for those links and I will look into all that!!! I really appreciate your help.

Keep in mind that, much like infidelity, it is not the "severity" of the sexual abuse that harms, it is the violation. Do not make light of what her uncle did to her (never think that, well, it wasn't like he raped her, or whatever).

We did spend some time talking about this a long time ago to try to deal with it. I did take it seriously back then, and I even wanted to out him to her mother. He ended up passing away soon after we talked about it (I didn't do it!) and so I never said anything to her mother because it would just give her more grief.

A kiss with someone else can destroy a marriage. An unwanted touch can rewire a little girl's brain forever.

Don't I know it. My brain is certainly rewired forever!

Thanks again...


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 4:29 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie84 - it's also really good that you're keeping him informed about all the sites you're on. I know that's extremely important! He may be paranoid, so you have to understand and show him anything and everything and just be totally open book for him for a while. It will wear off in a while.

wwnomore - yes, that was another aspect that hurt me. I used to want sex all the time, and there were times she never wanted it. Then when she wanted it all the time with me, it was only because she was getting revved up from meeting with OM's. She had gotten herself into amazing shape and did it for them, not me. Then she did what I have asked her for, to have a day of sex, and she did it with OM - leaving me with the kids! It's like she gave them a gift she will never give me. It's a horrible feeling. She has told me the same thing though, that she loves me more and it's better with me, etc., but it still sucks.


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can agree with wwnomore.


OM was laying on the flattery. I wasn't a Mom or a housewife to him. I was a woman. All woman. I was an adventure. A hottie with a body. (tacky, yes) It was new and exciting and yes, I took advantage of it too.

If you want to compare, OM doesn't have crap on H. I know that. And I have to prove that to H again.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"You can do it!" - R. Schneider


Posts: 5484 | Registered: Nov 2011
horseluvr
♀ Member
Member # 30097
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS..My IC told me last week that she doesn't think my M is salvageable. H will NOT go to MC or IC. We have never had a discussion about A where I could ask questions and get answers, entire conversation was denial. DD was 2yrs ago, I believe A was going on 2-3yrs before DD. When I found out it supposedly ended that day. OW never contacted me, I did her, but she also denied. He had stopped having sex with me while A was going on. After DD, when I agreed to let him stay with complete NC, I was surprised that he didn't initiate make-up sex. I thought maybe he had a fear of me rejecting him. I initiated a week after and we had a couple months of HB. He was sending me xx texts, which is what he did with OW.

I have never found proof that he broke NC but I have suspected because of his behavior. I have asked him to go on a trip with me to coast or anywhere to get away, always makes an excuse. I feel a total disconnect and sex is pretty much non-existent. I feel like he is living in the home, but not planning on permanently. I am lonely and finally have just come to the conclusion that he got stuck with the consolation prize and is just not interested in a future with me.

I know WS on here are in R, right? I guess Im just looking for anything to help me make a decision. We're done right? I mean if it was the fog, wouldn't it be over by now. Since he won't talk to me about any of this, maybe Im just trying to get answers from some of you that have been in this sich. Ive been with him well over half my life and I just dont know why he is with me if he doesn't want me. Guess Im rambling , sorry..just looking for perspective I guess. Thank you for any insight you have to offer.


BS me WS him...3 great kids
DD 10-09 OW younger but doesnt look it,face looks like a dried up cow pie..note to c**tface:sunscreen

Posts: 2015 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: central calif
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, November 11th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

horseluvr -

H will NOT go to MC or IC. We have never had a discussion about A where I could ask questions and get answers

If you read your post and pretend someone else wrote it, what would you think?

He doesn't want to change. Can you live like this for 5 years? 10 years? 20 years?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
horseluvr
♀ Member
Member # 30097
Default  Posted: 3:55 AM, November 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would think why cant this woman see what everyone else sees. I know in my head, but for some reason, I make excuses for him. I know I need to quit trying to figure him out, and figure out why I stay with someone who doesn't give a shit about me. My IC basically said she thinks I do it to stall and prolong the inevitable. I have spent the last 5 yrs wondering what every little thing he does means, dumb i know..its obvious isnt it. Thank you for your insight..and no I don't want to be doing this same dance in the future.


BS me WS him...3 great kids
DD 10-09 OW younger but doesnt look it,face looks like a dried up cow pie..note to c**tface:sunscreen

Posts: 2015 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: central calif
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, November 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't beat yourself up for loving and hanging on. You are not ready yet. You will know when you are ready. When the pain of not changing outweighs the pain of changing, you will change.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 10:51 AM, November 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

horseluvr - so sorry you're living through such pain! My aunt lived like this for a long time, too. Knowing what I know now, I can't imagine the Hell you are living in right now. My aunt eventually left him and he married the OW, and she eventually found someone else and is happy again. You can do it if you want to. I wish you could at least talk to him about this before your turn your heart totally away from him. What if you told him you needed to talk, and that if he didn't make any efforts for your M, you would begin by closing off your heart to him and when you were ready you'd file for D? Would that wake him up?


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
horseluvr
♀ Member
Member # 30097
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, November 12th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I did tell him a couple of months ago that I was not investing anymore emotionally in our M. I told him that I would be a robot, just like him...easier said than done, Im not built that way. I don't try to much with him anymore, just try and keep it even keeled and explosive free for my kids. However, I feel like I am being rejected 27/7 and its not a good feeling. I feel that its going to end, but Im going to have to do it. Seems harder when there's not a big fight or flair up..just flat lined. He says hateful things, but then life goes on like it never happened. He's a roller coaster ride for sure. I wish I would have ended it on DD, nothing has changed. I don't know if OW is still in pic. I mean for some reason I feel like I have to have a really good reason or case to end it. Hard to explain


BS me WS him...3 great kids
DD 10-09 OW younger but doesnt look it,face looks like a dried up cow pie..note to c**tface:sunscreen

Posts: 2015 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: central calif
helpemegetoverit
♀ Member
Member # 30242
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, November 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you do anything sexually with your AP that you didnt, or still wont do with your BS even after the affair? (example being positions or places)

Yes, needless to say my BH and I have not revisited ALL of the many places AP and I screwed in our cars to 'reclaim' them.

Why do so many WSs call the AP "Sexy, gorgeous, baby" etc. when they don't do the same for their spouse, and the AP isn't any of those things?

This is part of the allure and addiction of an affair in my opinion. Being told all of those things and more, seeing in the APs eyes that they really felt it to be true during the affair, that feeling is addictive.

I would say that, when you are ready, test out being playful with your WS. Or talk about what they want.

LIvingOn

As for the sexual acts, that is killing me, too. My WW [TMI Alert!] - - - - my WW had sex with this younger OM 4 times in one session, and sprayed 2 of those times. When I read about that, all I can think is that she was so extremely excited with the extra adrenaline that it was her. On the other hand, 4 times in one session is unusual, isn't it? And he bragged he knew how to move. This is so horrific for me, and I don' t know how to handle this. I feel like I'm competing in bed to be the best my own wife has ever had, and it's almost like I'm obsessed with making her spray, but she doesn't want to even try for me. If I did it at least once maybe I can put it behind me, but I don't know if it will ever happen.

My husband has had trouble with this type of stuff too. Be open, discuss, and work on it. Ask her what she wants, etc. If you want to PM me for suggestions, I'd be happy to share, just not 'publicly' on here.

In general, I think that after years and years of being together, for me working for years with infertility to make a baby, raising kids, moving, etc...it was hard for me to be open in that way with my BH. This is MY issue, but I'm just letting you know what happened. I got to be 'myself' in sex with AP. I remembered that I LIKE sex....a lot. That I used to be a very sexual person and lost that for a few years after the birth of our second child. Your WS may feel something similar, be open and discuss (in MC if you need a safe place and feel you need an impartial third party).


Me: WW
Him: BH
Intuition is not a gift, but a skill based in self esteem.

Posts: 872 | Registered: Nov 2010
Arais
♀ Member
Member # 33628
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, November 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to ask - has any W had the experience - when they got to the point of meeting their OP - that they couldn't perform sexually?

Posts: 329 | Registered: Oct 2011
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, November 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LivingOn -

Read this post - it's in "I Can Relate" and it's for sex abuse survivors, page 1, third post, a repost of Stunned Dad's post from long ago. It's MiJa's post.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=158510

It is a good description of what happens to a CSA victim.

I want to reiterate strongly that your learning all this stuff and what possibly could be the issues and the whys for your wife is of no use if she does not do the work herself and internalize the results.

I'm just photons on a screen and I'm doing this second-hand from what I've learned through my IC process. So, take from it what works for you and leave the rest.

She learned she needs to respect me more in every area (not just to refrain from cheating on me).

Does your wife respect her parents? (I can imagine how she feels after they did not search for her when she ran away.) Could there be any projection or transference of how she feels toward her parents to you?

14

At 14 years old, even though she and her boyfriend are/were considered peers, it is still child sexual abuse. There is such a thing as child upon child sexual abuse. The effects are still there.

What my IC would say is that her parents created an environment where CSA could occur - first by not being a safe place where she could tell about her uncle and second by not bringing her back when she ran away. I would guess that those are not the only two instances of "unsafe-ness" in her household.

She had 5 other sexual encounters, I think they were one time deals, by the time she was 18, and then she stopped having sex. At 19 she became a Christian

The ONS sound familiar.

We were working together on the same project, and we were in a phase where we were both working from home.

Was she feeling stifled? Feeling too much togetherness? Feeling trapped?

It was like she was shopping for shoes.

She really should look into sex addiction. She should look for a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist).

I am truly sorry about your troubles in finding a good therapist. I got very lucky.

I wasn't sexually abused as a child, but I thought about going crazy. I just never did it.

I think this is normal.

I somehow feel there are still choices we are free to make, regardless.

Absolutely. My philosophy is that there are two ingredients for infidelity: (1) brokenness and (2) selfishness. You could be a very broken person and not cheat. You could be very selfish and a horrible spouse and not cheat. But if you put the two together, then trouble can happen.

What you want to do is find out "why" the brokenness and "why" the selfishness.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
LivingOn
♂ Member
Member # 31841
Flame  Posted: 12:59 PM, November 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong - I read the link from the SA forum, and it's really good. I think she definitely falls into that category.

You're giving me really good information and insights, so thank you!

Does your wife respect her parents? (I can imagine how she feels after they did not search for her when she ran away.) Could there be any projection or transference of how she feels toward her parents to you?

I don't think she does respect her parents, particularly her dad. I think that would translate to how she would find a man to be with, and how she would respect me. I have thought of that before and I'm sure there is something there. I don't think I'm like him at all, but the respect factor from her perspective may have a correlation.

When her parents didn't come for her, I think that would cause damage, but when I pressed for this answer she admitted that they begged her to come back and didn't call the police because they were afraid of being deported. So she really put them through a lot of pain, but like I said, if I were in their shoes I would not have let this slide, deportation or not. (They're legal now, btw, and she was born here.)

At 14 years old, even though she and her boyfriend are/were considered peers, it is still child sexual abuse. There is such a thing as child upon child sexual abuse. The effects are still there.

I haven't really put that much thought into this, because I actually don't want to think about it! But I'm sure this is an important issue that needs to be examined.

What my IC would say is that her parents created an environment where CSA could occur - first by not being a safe place where she could tell about her uncle and second by not bringing her back when she ran away. I would guess that those are not the only two instances of "unsafe-ness" in her household.

I think the biggest issue was that they worked too much and were never home. She rarely saw them and when she did I think she watched her parents get disrespected and treated bad. I'm sure it wasn't healthy to grow up that way.

Was she feeling stifled? Feeling too much togetherness? Feeling trapped?

I think she was. She started telling me she didn't want to work with me anymore, she even said she wished she'd never had kids (in front of them!), and one day she told me she didn't love me anymore and was only staying for the kids. Then she'd buy me a sexy birthday card with a book on sex positions and the card would tell me which pages she wanted to do with me, "I love you's" all over the place all the time. One day she'd go out and I thought she just needed space, and I wasn't paranoid or worried (like I should have been, apparently) and the next day she was initiating sex. It was very strange, but all the signs were there had I known I should have been looking for them. I could have caught it in time and I didn't.

She really should look into sex addiction. She should look for a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist).

I think she should, too. But she's telling me that once she says she won't do something anymore, then she won't, and that should be the end of it. I'm afraid of a relapse one day. When we get back on our feet financially we will need to look into seeing a CSAT. I think she would if I really pressed.

Absolutely. My philosophy is that there are two ingredients for infidelity: (1) brokenness and (2) selfishness. You could be a very broken person and not cheat. You could be very selfish and a horrible spouse and not cheat. But if you put the two together, then trouble can happen.

What you want to do is find out "why" the brokenness and "why" the selfishness.

You've really nailed it there. She has already been described as "broken" and even she would admit to being "selfish." (Add those up and it equals "cruel!") I think she's getting to the bottom of her selfishness and has really made progress with that, but the broken part, I think from what I read in the other forum on CSA that you posted, she has been compartmentalizing all the broken things about herself. It's scary.

Now, I feel like I'm compartmentalizing what she's done as well, and I noticed others who are going through what I am. You shove it away for a while then BAM, it hits you like a ton of bricks.

Yesterday we had an argument where she is fed up with how sometimes I'm experiencing symptoms of PTSD and anxiety and depression or whatever it is. Sometimes my heart starts pounding involuntarily, and it happens when I'm trying to sleep. I also start to sweat and then the images flash, and it sucks. Sometimes I want to ask a question but I can't because the kids are near, or I don't want to ruin the day, or for whatever reason I don't ask anything at all, and she probably reads that something is bothering me even though I'm trying not to show it. In turn, she feels like I need space or I don't want to be touched, etc., which makes me feel like she doesn't love me, and this cycle gets worse and worse until we have a heated argument. I don't feel like she's doing enough to help me by talking and researching, and she feels like I'm trying to sabotage the relationship because deep down I don't want this to work (which she just read in "Not Just Friends") and she doesn't understand why I'm still having a hard time.

She answered some questions for me and I got a bunch of new details, so when will I ever need to stop asking about the same things???

She said she will consider looking into reading these forums, so that was positive, but it's not like she's doing it on her own. When I read other WS's on here, doing this all on their own so they can get help and help their BS's, I wonder why my own wife who says she's sorry won't do this for herself or for me, it bothers me.

Thanks again, everyone, for being here to help.


Me - BS 40
Her - FWS 42
2 beautiful little girls, 5 & 7.
M - 18 years.
OM - strangers on Craigslist - met many, kissed 5, EA with 1, PA with 2.
D-Day - 6-23-10. TT - 4-??-2011
Working on R.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Dallas
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.