M33 - Kipper has such a laid back attitude to life - If only we could replicate that in our lives even just for a short time.
My H had 7 sexual encounters with 2 OW over 19 months. There was inappropriate emails with 1 OW since mid 2007, and then texting/emails with both up until Dday Aug 20 2011. He said he didn't even realize all the texting he was doing and that it had become an obsession.
Upon discovery he was totally NC, severing all contact. NC has not been attempted by 2 OW. WS is totally remorseful and we are in Indiv Therapy as well as Couples Therapy. WS says they really meant nothing to him. Says he got "lost". We are both having a hard time functioning. He is searching for the meaning of why and how he could do this to me.
I never had a clue. There were no dates, gifts, etc. Just brief encounters during business trips and at the end of his weekly night out with the boys (now nonexistant).
None of this took away from our time, family time. He says he always loved me, and now loves me more and it was a wake up call. He was (or so I thought) a GREAT husband and father.
Any advice is welcome...is this considered an LTA? Has anyone experienced this type of infidelity where WS put little emotional value on A even though it lasted as long as it did??
This is a really short ugly chapter in a really long great book.
Welcome to the LTA house. You will get some good advice from some very smart and caring people if you chose to hang around.
You WH like most WSs will have a hard time coming up with reason concerning why he did this. My W told me several reasons. Her statement that she was sick and crazy was probably the most accurate answer for the why in her situation. It is hard to understand how a relationship that goes for so long can have no emotional attachment. It seems that many of the LTA WSs want us to view all this as a series of ONS and not as a LTA. Keep checking here. The best and the brightest will be giving you plenty of advice and support.
Now, now, settle down. You know I did not mean to insult you. I was very sure you fixed Baby Paddy those pancakes or should I say Paddycakes. I just wondered how it all worked out.
I was not scared to go there concerning the batteries. I did mention BOB. BOB = battery operated boyfriend! I figured if I knew that everyone did. I really am the last to know anything about anything. For instance I don't have a clue who Kipper is.
I think there is going to be a new job in my future. Yesterday was nearly a 12 hour interview and I think I am a (the?) leading candidate. This organization is 4x larger than where I am now, and plans to grow by 50% more over the next 10 years.
Welcome, sorry you are here.
He is searching for the meaning of why and how he could do this to me.
In my opinion this is key. If your WS cannot figure this out and address the cause, any hope for R is slim. My FWW has figured this out, and we are still talking about D.
There were no dates, gifts, etc. Just brief encounters <snip> He says he always loved me, and now loves me more and it was a wake up call. <snip>
... WS put little emotional value on A even though it lasted as long as it did??
Yes. FWW's last OM lasted over 2 years. No gifts or cards at all so far as I know. He offered to buy her a dress for a fancy gala they attended and she refused and charged on on an account instead. They met for lunch and to be together during the day, travelled on business together and texted and talked a lot. FWW liked the fact that there was little emotional involvement. She wanted the affirmation and ego stroking and attention from the OM, and he just wanted the stroking. She also had a sexting/phone A with her BIL that was again about the attention for her, and the stroking (himself while on the phone) for him, no emotional connection for either of them.
The OM prior to the last one there was more emotional connection, she planned to leave me for him at some point, and introduced one of her DDs to him. She grew tired of him after a year because he wanted more time and commitment. She did not like the emotional connection that he developed.
She says she always has loved me, and thought I did not love or like her. I do not believe that she always loved me, but I understand now that because of her issues, she did not think I loved her. Since she judged herself by what she perceived others thought of her, it was important for her to find someone (OM) she perceived loved her so that she could feel good about herself.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:49 AM, November 30th (Wednesday)]
I would consider it an LTEA (long-term emotional affair), so yes, you're in the right place if it feels right to you. I'm afraid I don't have any advice for your situation in regards to the non-emotional component as Mr. STBXNell (Soon-To-Be-Ex + Nell, me) was in an emotional BF/GF (boyfriend/girlfriend) situation... albeit a deeply ridiculous middle-schooly one for two "adults" in their 30s. They had sex quite often and saw each other nearly every day. (She was his COW... Co-worker Other Woman.) He loved her and ignored me (and therefore our two young sons), insulted me, and basically acted like a complete and utter asshole for a long time, which he claimed was caused by MLC (mid-life crisis)... I bought his story and tried to support him. Silly me. Mr. STBXNell got rid of all the messages, cards, gifts, notes, etc. or kept them at his office so there were never any clues other than his shitty behavior for me to find. Anyway, I don't know much about it but has your WH's (wayward husband) IC (individual counselor) or has your MC (marriage counselor) looked at whether your WH is SA (sex addict)?
Kipper is a gentle British cartoon dog. Love Kipper. The Boyos used to watch it but now they only like superhero, anime and/or Disney Tween crap. Oh, well. At least WWE isn't on their radar.
We had a nice night last night. Went to the park after school with a couple of the Boyos' friends and then home, where Boyo1 quickly did his homework and then we rented a movie, had dinner and popcorn on the couch and got to bed at the normal bedtime. Then I started gathering financial stuff. Big night at Nell's house! Mr. STBXNell has been callig the Boyos every night to say good-night, and calling me in the morning. I let it go to voicemail Monday and Tuesday but accidentally picked it up this morning (while in traffic, so I didn't check to see who it was). I have been keeping my side of the conversations limited to the Boyos. Him... not so much. That's okay.
Okay, Nell out.
ETA: left out an acronym!
And, ats, YAY YOU!!!!!!
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 10:33 AM, November 30th (Wednesday)]
As an early Christmas present to all of the lovely ladies of the LTA tribe I am calling a meeting of the High Council of Menz Stuff and we will be addressing and most certainly dismissing PFM, Mr.Nogood, Mr.Dishonest, Mr.Nell and any other nominated candidates from all future rights and privileges of being a "Real Man".
Jollum: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This is the best Christmas present ever!
Twigs: Welcome to our little corner of SI. I don't think there is a simple answer as to "Why" as WS does what he/she does. I think it's quite complicated, but the main thing you MUST keep in mind that it is NOT YOUR FAULT. There are plenty of people who may say they are unhappy in thier marriages, often marriages that are 10x + worse than ours, and the spouses do NOT cheat. I believe the number one reason is the moral nature of the WS. They allow it to happen. They made a choice. We were in the same marriage, and we did not choose to cheat.
Read the healing library, and come here and post often.
Nell: you are sounding great. I like the idea of the ring. When I took off my ring, I bought myself a nice birthstone ring to wear instead. It was a committment to ME. Although, I haven't kept that committment as well as I should. You shouldn't just buy yourself a plain ring, buy yourself the most beautiful ring that you can afford, something you really like for YOU.
M3: I love Baby Paddy!! God bless her! I'm so happy she "graduated"! She is doing great, as is her Mom. Where do you think she learned it all?
Allgood: He took pics of OW when she was sleeping?? I find this quite disturbing. geez. It's so adolescent, it's pathetic and also shows how little respect he has of her and of anyone for that matter. Allgood, don't contact her any longer. She is NOT worth your time. She wanted xWH? Let her have him. That is the best punishment of all.
Ats: Congrats on the job. A 12 hour interview??? Wow. How are things going with you and Mrs. Ats? Are you just waiting to see about the job and then make a conclusive decision?
Miracle: Lol, I'm not going to discuss "Bob"
Thank you everyone for the feedback. I think finally after 2 years of therapy, I might be getting somewhere for myself. It took so long to get over the trauma, I guess because of TT and NPD kept upping the ante. The new thing now is that he is moving back into "our" house overseas and the OW and OC will be staying over there on the weekends and several days during the week.
I wish I could just go complete NC and completely support myself......
One foot in front of the other and start moving in that direction. At least I'm not as terrified as I once was.
Ats - Good luck - I'm sure things are on the up for you.
Honest - dont be so hard on yourself, you have come so far.
As for me just sitting at my desk, huge grin on my face & singing "I'm Kipper the dog". This has brought back so many wonderful memories of when I would watch this with my kids - it was so uncomplicated then.
Nell - I love the toe ring idea.
take care Tribe
I don't know Kipper the Dog, my youngest is 13, but I did like "Little Bear" and Blue's Clues with STEVE and "Spot". There was something charming and calming about watching some of those pre-school shows. Also, taking care of the kids was less complicated. You don't have to think about yes or no can you touch the hot stove, but with teens, there is soooo much gray area!!!
WYE, let us know how your Mom is doing and how you are holding up.
Laura: hugs for you. You have been a bright guiding light for so many of us.
FNF: Let us know how you are doing with WH. Please, please get as much help as possible, from your kids. They are grown now and can share the responsibility.
Last night just as I was leaving work FWW called and sounded very strange. She then told me POSOM had contacted her via text and he had a new phone number and wanted to "talk" with her. She did the right thing and told me right away. I was proud. She looked so upset all night that I was worried of the affect it was having on her. Anyways....I did my best to keep my composure. It has been about 2.5 years since she sent the NC letter and he has kept NC until yesterday.
Only you guys would know the range of emotions I've felt and am still feeling at his fishing attempt. I am very, very pleased with FWW's behavior through it all. I am just having a little trouble not wanting to dismember this guy. I had her return his call on the outside chance he possibly was calling to apologize Yeah right! She said her name and then he started with "how you doing"? I then jumped in and told him how she was doing and also told him that if he ever contacted her or any member of my family again they wouldn't find enough of him to bury. He hung up in the middle of that and I called him right back and left a voice mail telling him that if he contacted her again it was on and it was all between me and him.
I know I shouldn't have let him contacting her get to me so much but I have to admit I feel better having told him what I did. I confronted him the day after she sent the NC letter, which he told me he received, but I was too devastated to do anything other than tell him he could have her. At least he got to see me. FWW told me before they ever got going very far he wanted to know if I was the violent type. She reassured him that I wouldn't hurt a fly. Which has always been true. However, I am 6'4" and weigh 280 lbs. and even though I'm not violent I've been told I'm certainly imposing by a lot of people. Hopefully he has put 2 and 2 together and realized that if I get all of this mass of a body pissed off he better not be the one who I'm coming after.
I can't believe how bad it set me off with him contacting her. Maybe if FWW hadn't been doing so well lately I would have not really cared. I'm still on an adrenalin rush and I'm happy he doesn't live closer to us or I'm not sure what would have happened.
Oh well. I feel a little better now having written all of this and I'm hoping the urge to ruin him via electronic methods soon passes. Then I'll be OK.
You're asking if its possible to have a LTA and have no emotional connection with the affair partner...
well, IMHO it happens all the time.
In your case,your WH had 2 OW ..was he 'in love' with both of them?
I struggled with this 'love' question for a very long time after d-day.
My FWH had a 5 yr LTA with the same married co-worker!
In my mind...people had affairs because they did not want to stay married. Boy, was I wrong about that!
Just look at all the stories on SI.
There are so many situations where immediately after d-day the WW or WH is begging for forgiveness and begging the spouse not to divorce them.
So...that shows that many people have affairs eventhough they value their marriage and want to stay married.
My FWH was very open and honest after d-day...told me alot of details about the LTA and the one thing that he was adamant about was that the MOW meant NOTHING to him.
That he never loved her, never thought for a minute that he might be in love with her, never wanted to marry her, never wanted to divorce me, loved only me... etc. etc.
He went to IC for a long time after d-day and this was one issue that I insisted he investigate with his IC.
They came to the conclusion that eventhough the LTA went on for 5 yrs...he really treated it as a series of ONS.
he told me later that he never worried about the OW went he left her, he never thought about her, was not concerned for her welfare or her well being like he was about me....
he never had the urge to surprise the OW with gifts, or flowers, or anything at all like that.
he never wanted to spend any money on her....and he didn 't want to take any family time away from us..so thats why all the sexual encounters were on work time or on work related trips etc.
There's a movie that just came out: 'The Descendents' with George Clooney.
Another BS that I know went to see it with her FWH.
She said it was very accurate in it's depiction of infidelity and it's effect on the spouse and family.
Clooney's wife has an affair in the movie and he finds out after she is in the hosptal with a very serious condition.
I don't want to give anything away in case there are some here that may want to see the movie....but there is one thing that is pertinent-Clooney confronts the OM and tells him about his WW's dire health issue...and the OM could care less....
That's pretty telling isn't it?
If you truly love someone you are concerned about them, worried about them, etc.Want to rush out to be by their side in their time of need....
nope... usually doesn't happen with affair partners.
Affairs are very sick , artificial strange relationships.
We as BS try to make sense of them...and there's no way to make sense of crazy!
we try to imagine what it must be like and we compare it to what we know.. our own normal dating experiences but LTAs are different.
[This message edited by njgal480 at 5:16 PM, November 30th (Wednesday)]
All the Tribe:
Been lurking a bit on LTA, feeling very positive most days but just suddently I am going downhill again and I don't know why. I've achieved so much this past 12 months but now maybe I'm giving myself permission to grieve and to really get ANGRY. I wrote a letter to OW1 the other night, didn't send it but it basically laid out in full the devastation that she and idiot stbxh have caused. My 13 year old is graduating from Primary School in a couple of weeks and there is a Graduation Dinner and all the parents are seated at tables. We have to choose two families we would like to be seated with. Why the school does this I don't know because there must be plenty of divorced/separated couples who don't want to be anywhere near each other, but anyway . The thought of sitting next to my ex is sending me into a panic attack. I have been really good all year, putting up with sitting next to him at concerts and parent events but this is too much. I know I should be able to put it all aside but the thought of him sitting at the same table, cracking jokes and pretending everything is normal is likely to send me off into a complete meltdown. This is just another occasion, another moment in one of our kid's lives that he has ruined. I'm just pissed off. He could sit on another table of course but that will just be even more embarrassing for our D. He has crapped on so many people through all of this including other people's kids.
Sorry for the rant but I'm in danger of doing something I may regret at the moment. Just needed to get it off my chest.
Hope everyone else is OK. WYE - Howz your Mum?
Gotta go now and do something to cheer myself up. Have a good day everyone.
Sorry you've joined the ranks, but you will find tons of support here. Take care of yourself.
Sorry I'm not around much....just too much going on in WYE land.
Mom is ok. Wish I could be more positive than that, but it's as good as it's gonna get right now. Healing is iffy, her finances are atrocious, I need to get her out of my house somehow, but honestly have no idea how. If she can ever life independently physically is one thing...she still has to be able to afford it. Sigh.
Things with fWH are good though. He's doing everything right still.
A little nervous, our insurance year ends today and we are changing in January, so for the next month, no therapists for either of us. I know I'll be fine...but I'm worried about him. He's finally gotten to the point where he's making legitimate progress.
Hugs to everyone, I've been reading on my phone when I can, but can't post.
Speaking of sexual deviants, Boyo2 thinks his butt is HILARIOUS (mooning people, booty dancing, etc.) and unfortunately the other little kids think it's funny, too. So he keeps doing it even though he suffers multiple consequences when he's caught. It's going be a freaking riot when child protective services shows up at my house. I love zero tolerance.
Oh Nell....I couldn't stop laughing. It reminded me of my son when he was about 12ish?
So sorry your mom's health and finances are so rotten. Wish I had something helpful to say.
I'm not much of a bling girl... I love my plain gold band. I was contemplating whether to get it engraved when I get it resized as a toe-ring.
if you have not read the healing library please do so, taking care of yourself is also a priority, so make sure you are eating, drinking and exercising if possible.....and take each and every day one step at a time, somedays it will be by the minute and others possibly by the hours and then still others each and every second...
ok, all that being said...i read your post in jfo, i have to say...7 encounters as much as it is possible that they may be all it is highly unlikely that there weren't more...from the sound of these women they were ready, easy and available and since he had been in contact with them for so long its highly unlikely that the encounters were so few in number...
i think asking him to take a polygraph, now as opposed to later on is a good idea....i also don't buy that he was unable to perform intercourse...he was obviously able to get it up for a bj several time, able to do his business by masterbation....sounds alot like he was "able" to me....
i hope i am wrong
as for the why...that is something he needs to find out otherwise you will never feel safe and even then there are no guarantees....
you both need to be in ic and mc like yesterday....you will need the help in getting through the muck....
i never heard of kipper either and i have had steady little ones in my care for the past 19 years....and honest blues clues was one of my favorites....there were and are so many that make me cringe....
nell: what did i miss, when did he move out or is he away on business?
wye: me heart goes out to you....your plate is still overflowing...but i am so happy that your ws is "there" in every sense of the word right now
ellejay: never apologize to us for rants...we all do it, some more then others and some who need to do it more often...its a necessary emotion and outlet ....we need to feel it to heal it and we need to go through it to move past it...
as for the dinner...sorry this will sound so crude...but i think you need to suck it up a bit, the dinner is not about you its about your kid...and yes there will be time and time again where you will have to put it all away and do whats right for your kids....if you don't i am pretty sure you will regret not doing so....and the example you set for you kids in doing for them is just so damed good and honorable and puts you into the category of great mom....our kids never asked for any of this shit....and it sucks that our ws's never kept all of it in mind and realized that their actions would touch every member of the family
allgood: you are too quiet....where are you??
ats: sending lots of si mojo your way...i hope you not only get this job but take this job, especially since that would mean that you would never have to deal the posom....
jollum: yay mrs jollum...and for the record i think what you did with your reposnse is quiet heroish...fighting for you woman is quite sexy
honest: keep in mind that its all a process and the only way through it is one step at a time, sometimes those steps are side steps and sometimes those steps lead to a brick wall and you need to double back to find a way around it
fun its good to "see" you, would love to "see" you more often....do you still have unwanted houseguests...
I know it isn't about me and if it was just the A's I would gladly sit there and suck it up. However there are other issues aside from that which are pretty horrendous and could compromise him greatly by being there. I'm sorry to sound vague but trust me on this one. I will of course suck it up if I have to and behave on the night. My D is everything to me.
Hope everyone Ok today.
The Boyos and I tested for our next belts in martial arts last night and we all passed, so woo-hoo for us!
Beeeee caaaaaaalm. Ignore, ignore, ignore. The nice thing about those kid situations is that it's necessary to put on your social mommy face and make small-talk with others, so it will be easy to keep your head turned away from him and your mind off of him, if nothing else. But, yeah... sucks.
how are you today?
On the weirdness of AP relationships... the thing I could never wrap my mind around was Mr. STBXNell's COW being okay with knowing that she was sharing WH with me, only getting attention when she pitched a fit (manipuated) first and then only on WH's timetable. I mean, obviously APs have serious self-esteem issues, but why would anyone, given any other option, choose to put herself in second place? I mean, I wouldn't accept anything less than 100% from Mr. STBXNell, and she was begging for 40%. I gotta tell ya, folks, he is just not all that great.
Ats: Congrats! That's awesome.
Jollum: Lol - good for you! And good for FWW. But the lawyer in me wants to warn you that you cannot leave messages like that on a voicemail. Please be careful.
Deep: How ARE you doing? Last I remembered you were going to move on with your life, while still remaining in the house. How is everything going?
Nell: You sound well. Good for you!
On the topic of Kipper: my 9th grader used to watch it & it was only recently re-discovered by my daughter after she broke the dvd player & we were resigned to watching old vhs tapes. She loves him.
As for me: I'm not posting much because I really have no idea what I'm doing. I have agreed to go out with the X on Sat night, however, I am not excited by the prospect, nor have I been happy to receive any of the renewed attention from him this week, don't really want to talk to him & I'm certainly not able to do it with any level of enthusiasm. I'm just real pissed off and otherwise have no real interest in him. On the other hand, I'm trying to acknowledge how unbelievably angry and hurt I was when I found out he was still with OW and have to admit that while I seem to be able to get along without him, I'm not ready to let him go completely or know that he's with someone else, particularly OW.
My head knows that just because we still love each other and miss each other that it's not enough and I don't want to get more attached to him than I already am.
I think that I would be most comfortable with him getting his shit together without involving me, which would include his abstaining from engaging in any kind of contact with OW or any other female so he can focus on what a fd up mess he really is.
I'm not ready to let him go completely or know that he's with someone else, particularly OW.
I'm avoiding work. *sigh* But I have to do it, so Nell out again.