I know you have been struggling recently with your feelings towards your H, as i have.
But somehow through all of that pain believing that I would survive and come out on the other side gave me hope.
YOU HAVE !
I know everyone here will agree that thru all this infidelity crap, it is sometimes amazing and sometimes shocking where our minds take us.
I have had this thought turning round in my mind now and then since Dday.
Those times i have begged God for an answer, wondering if there is some meaning in this, some sort of purpose.
I think about who i was before all this and who i am today. And i think if something were to happen to my H now , the person who i am would feel and cope in a completely different way than i would have before.
So i sometimes wonder if that is at least part of the purpose of this enormous pain we all feel.
Because although i have never known such pain, and know too it will never really leave me, i also definitely see this as some form of an awakening.
As hopeless as you feel today FNF, will you cope in a way the old you couldn't?
I hope you understand that i am not minimizing your pain or "explain" it away, I was really telling you what you have told so many others here, that you are stronger than you know.
huge, huge, hugs FNF.
Nell - I want to send out hugs to you too. I hope your MC can find someone who will help your "boyos" through this. I hope too that you are taking care of yourself and that your H is being as cooperative and non-confrontational as you deserve him to be. ((Nell))
Tryn - still haven't had enough time to myself to do that test but hopefully later tonight.
Allgood - of course your H misses you and wants to see if he can win you back. What have you decided to do? Do you think you'll take him up on his offer for a date?? Keep us posted. Your post made me smile. Who knows, maybe he's finally going to see the light.
Miracle - thanks for the laugh. His forgetfulness is driving me crazy but like you said, there could be advantages.
And i think if something were to happen to my H now , the person who i am would feel and cope in a completely different way than i would have before.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:56 PM, November 10th (Thursday)]
At the end of the day though, you will, I believe, do as I have. You will accept that the things he has done have damaged him and damaged you. You will accept the fact that though you may never love him the same way, you will always love him. You will find compassion and kindness in a place that perhaps there shouldn't be. And you will forgive him.
M3 - I know I shouldn't have but your post did make me laugh. I can't tell you how much the urge to run tempts me but then it would be my kids who would have to carry that burden and I just can't do that to them. Even if he was eventually put into a nursing home (he is not yet at that stage) there is still so much that they would have to do. So for the time being, if you all don't mind I might come in here to occasionally vent but hopefully I will get out of this self-pitying phase and prove to myself that I am alot stronger and a better person than I now think myself to be.
Hugs to you all and please forgive me if I forgot anyone.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:57 PM, November 10th (Thursday)]
If you want to care take as an act and expression of your love for him that is wonderful. If you are doing this out of a sense of obligation to him,
Again, hugs and so much gratitude to you all!
(((((FNF))))) Oh honey, I’m so sorry. It sounds like things are moving on in a pretty relentless way and you are becoming more of a caregiver than wife, companion or friend. I cannot imagine just how hard this is for you, but I would urge you to look into and take all the advice and information regarding help with his care as time goes on. Look into specialist care homes sooner rather than later and maybe take his opinion into account when looking at them. You have such a wonderful family and although you say you don’t want to pass the burden on to them, I think there is much they can do to support you when times are tough. Keep them fully in the loop and fully involved. And make sure you still carve out time for yourself – you will have to become more selfish as time goes on to ensure you look after yourself.
As for the ILYBINILWY, that’s understandable. As if you have tried to hold the elusive butterfly, but it’s dying before your eyes and all you can feel is sad. If it helps, I don’t love fWH anything like I did before d-day or even for the first couple of years after d-day. I’m pretty non-committal. fWH and DS17 were caught up in a motorway pile up – they were okay, just very, very delayed. But it’s an awful thing to say, I wasn’t that bothered. I was very concerned about DS17, but he was with his Dad, so I knew he was alright. But I was worried about what he was seeing and how he was coping. fWH? Whatever. And I was quite shocked at my lack of concern or compassion for his situation.
I had already decided that if something happens to fWH that fundamentally changes him and our relationship (and I obviously include another A here as well as mental and/or physical health issues) I will not be his primary caregiver. I did all that and got shat on, so I have determined to put myself first. However, I always said if he ever had an affair I’d boot him out and divorce him, so another case of I don’t really know how I’d react unless or until it happens to me.
I hope you will come to a place of forgiveness and acceptance and to appreciate that you stood by all your values during your marriage. He didn’t, but that was his problem. I’m with MIG, I think you have come through the other side in an amazing way – because you are an amazing woman. And I truly believe that the best and kindest thing you can do for yourself is to ensure you continue to live a full life and not be dragged down by being there 24/7 as his caregiver. You don’t need to be a “better person”, you are wonderful just as you are.
Hugs and more hugs (((((FNF)))))
And hugs to everyone here - we are an amazing group.
OW is a nurse in a nursing home, so I told him if he ever needs care, I will send him there and let her take care of him since she loves him so much.
You will get through and do what you have to.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
ATS - If you can share any thoughts of what you have learned during your process, I would really appreciate hearing them.
The first thing I have learned (and I embrace this) is that I am not responsible for others. For much of my life I felt obligated to take care of things, a trait I got from my childhood. Through my life I would be responsible and take care of things, if someone would not cover a shift I would go in, even if sick. Looking back, I tried to be so good, so helpful, that people had to like me. It did not work. This played into my relationship with FWW. I believe I married her in large part out of feeling she needed my help (KISA), and she adored me. I was insecure about myself, but could feel confident with FWW. Since my IC after the missed dday in 2007, and especially since dday, I have embraced the fact that I am responsible for nobody but me. Sure, when my kids were young I had responsibility to act and think for them, and I still have some legal responsibility for the youngest, but my relationships with others are now interdependent, not co-dependent. I no longer feel I automatically have to give up something I want just because someone else wants the money or time for something else.
I am with FWW now because being here suits me for now better than not being here (path of least regret). I no longer feel any responsibility for helping her or creating an environment for her to help herself. I like FWW, and if she asks I am usually willing to help, as I would for anyone, but I do this because I want to, not because I feel obligated. For most of the last 6 months if I could have left without causing my family and myself financial disaster I think I would have. Instead, I have been working to reduce expenses, lighten our load of stuff to be more mobile, and increasing my income. I am working towards having the financial freedom to act as I want. I am working on building my network of friends for support outside of my M.
When FWW had her recent surgery she felt guilt about needing care and assistance, I did not feel any obligation and was fine with taking care of her. FWW has made it clear in the past, while pretending to be joking, that if I were chronically ill she would leave me. She has had 3 surgeries since we were married, and is at risk for heart disease and breast Cx. While we cannot know what we will do until a situation occurs, I like to think that I will stay or go based on what suits me, not some need of FWW’s. If we have a renewed and strengthen relationship, then I would want to stay, regardless of the situation. If our relationship continues as it is or deteriorates, I hope I will eventually leave regardless of the situation.
Long-term financially, FWW clearly is much better if we stay together than if we separate, and I wonder how her realization of this affects her behavior towards me. My earning potential is 2+ times hers. I am 7 years younger, so in my low 50’s I have significantly more “work life” left to prepare for retirement. I am healthier. My parents are much better prepared to pass on some wealth (enough to be comfortable in my old age) when they are gone. Fixing things and dealing with problems typically falls to me. When FWW’s parents needed help, she turned to her sister for guidance on what she should do. When her older DD was a problem, she turned to her younger DD and sister. She says that she would never remarry or have another relationship with men, but I do not see her being alone. I think her unspoken (maybe unacknowledged) fear of being alone influences her behavior towards me. I believe that she often acts out of self-preservation, not love. To me, this would help to explain why making love, spending time together, being honest about feelings seems to be such a chore for her.
Finally, just as the LTA presents special problems in achieving R, so too I believe does the A discovered in the late summer or autumn of the M. There is no starting over. All the kids will always be our kids. Most of our adult life experiences, good and bad, we share with our WS. I remember the year when I had been M’d to FWW longer than her xH. It was important to me, marking that I was finally the H and he the x, rather than me being the “new H”. It is very unlikely and becoming a reality that I will never be M’d to anyone longer than I have been M’d to FWW. So I am not yet clear which will be the preferred path. Do I close out my life with FWW? A life without empathy or emotional intimacy, which is not what I hoped for, but is better than it was. Or do I tear my family apart in the hopes that I might find a decade or so of real love with another person? I can be happy regardless, but I would like to experience the bond like my parents and some friends have with their spouses.
So fnf, I encourage you to act as fits your needs. Be conscious of the differences between concern and pity. Let go of self-imposed obligation. I think the phrase “good money after bad” applies.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:53 AM, November 11th (Friday)]
I'm heading to the hospital....think they will probably decide if they are going to have to amputate mom's leg today.
Feeling a little overwhelmed and angry right about now.
And, to be honest, a little terrified. I don't think I've said anything here, but when I hacked fWH's phone, I found out that he'd searched divorce lawyers the day after my dad died. (Asshat)
He has always claimed that he did it out of fear or the future, mostly relating to needing to care for my mother. Claims he is in a better place now, will be here for me, isn't going anywhere, never wanted to go anywhere then, etc.
Claims he is in a better place now, will be here for me, isn't going anywhere, never wanted to go anywhere then, etc.
you are becoming more of a caregiver than wife, companion or friend
I absolutely hate coming across as a martyr and I don't want any of you thinking this about me. I am just in the adjustment phase and I will work this out so that I do take care of myself in the future. I thank you all for your support in this area.
ATS - so much of what you wrote resonates with me. I have always been the caretaker, and always got satisfaction in knowing that others knew they could lean on me. And I had and still do have many who I know I can lean on as well. My family has been amazing. Everyone of my children of course have "stepped up" as well as my mother, brothers and close friends. I think the main hurt is missing having a true partner. I feel so lonely in this area.
And, I miss sex. TMI And even though I guess I could still ask my H for this it just doesn't satisfy me. I've lost my attraction to him and it's so much work "to get there" if you KWIM??? Hopefully you don't.
Gotta run - here he comes.
Ok - back again
NoFun - I have also thought about the OW being "invited" back to take care of him now. I know she would be thrilled to do it too. I actually had a dream a couple of weeks ago where I did just that and when she walked in, I walked out. Hmmm, wonder what my subconscious was trying to tell me.
WYE - I will keep you in my prayers. I am so sorry to hear about your mother. I do hope they are able to save her leg. And as UKG said, hopefully your H will continue to be the support for you that you will need as you care for your Mom.
To all the tribe - thank you so much for your beautiful thoughts. I am grateful to each and every one of you.
Again, as UKG said, we are an amazing group. I love you all.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 1:13 PM, November 11th (Friday)]
It reminds me of the quote “never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.” Clearly I was an option for WH and he took advantage of my good nature, so now I try to think of and put myself first. His health is HIS responsibility.
WYE. Thinking of you and your mom. I’m relieved that your H is still being a rock for you. I think you did say something about looking up divorce lawyers and I seem to recall saying that he might have been second guessing your reaction to finding out. Getting his advice in case you threw him out. But that was then – and as long as you found out your standing too, then you can say you had that covered. I sought advice several months after d-day. fWH had investigated his circumstances by chatting to, but not giving away his situation, a few friends and colleagues who had recently separated and/or divorced. So he knew the lie of the land before I did.
FNF, you will always be heard. I wonder if you might feel less alone if you found a support group for carers and would-be carers in your situation. Sharing problems, anticipating situations, sharing information, etc over a coffee or lunch or an evening group meeting might help. And there will be people you can ring at odd hours should things get too much. I don’t know what to suggest about the sex though – I’m guessing it’s as much about intimacy as sex itself. And I’m not going to suggest the only way I can think of right now!
For me, I know that sex is very important to being desirable and a good M. If one person is unsatisfied, it becomes a problem that must be resolved in some way. My W and I are trying. I think I could have sex every day. That is my compromise, she is not some “hole”. She says she lacks libido. I know my W does not want to have sex. She makes the choice to have sex with me for me. I appreciate that. It still feels very good and she tries to get involved. She admits at some point does get into it. It’s always about the start. It hurts me to know what she thinks about sex and I really have a hard time understanding how she feels because I never felt that way. I still have that passion for a good rock my world.
Cried for hours last night.
Mom is losing her foot. The surgeon is meeting with her today sometime.
wye: you may have hit a wall, but you are still standing....i am so sorry about your mom's foot....your plate is so overflowing....
its at times like these that a support system can mean life support for your soul, i hope you have some peeps irl to be there with you.....you will get through this as will your mom....
I've been quiet these few weeks..thinking...thinking & thinking...
I'm not going to ruin xmas but in the New Year I will make separation with WW official. I will as I have done to date stay for the kids with the view to divorce in a few years when the youngest is a little older & can fully understand what has happened. Its not the affair of the last 2 years this marriage was going south from when our first was born. I didnt see or understand the signs as they presented themselves then. We havent slept together for years so whats the difference. I dont want to be 2nd choice anynmore = i deserve to be someones 1st choice. I want female friendship, a companion, a lover ...its selfish but my relationship with ww is toxic.
Even if she has a lightbulb moment in the next 10 minutes i know nothing will change unless see seeks help for herself & i know that she is incapable of doing that.Im tired of this shit - i want a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WYE - I'm so sorry for the bad news regarding your Mum. It will seem trite to say "take it easy" because you have to be there for her, but please look after yourself. Hugs.
DP - Sounds like you are coming to the surface. You have the right to a life where you are valued and are loved unconditionally. Your girls will come out of this OK, I've learned over the past 12 months that kids are more resilient that we think they are. I come from a broken home and I survived. I never wanted my own kids to go through the same but life isn't always a fairytale unfortunately. Hugs to you too.
DP – as we always say here, only you know when you have reached the end. If you have Christmas plans you want to stick to, view them in an objective and dispassionate way. Christmas is a project and once it’s out of the way, you can get out your GANTT chart and plot your progress as you separate and move towards divorce. You do deserve to be No 1 in someone’s life and I’m sure that person is out there. But get this out of the way first. No woman wants to be your rebound, so take things step by cautious step. The girls will be okay. You are a great father and a constant in their lives. You have done as much as any man could have done and this may be the time to call it a day.
Tryn', Your wife should never feel like a "hole" while you are emotionally engaged. you never treat her in that way and use persuasion rather than threat or force. She should feel loved and desired during sex. Even if I'm not initiating or if I don't "get there", I can still enjoy sex. Just sayin'
DS25 & DS27 are here for a couple more days. DS25 came with me to A&E. fWH has cracked some ribs so we were holed up at the hospital while they did tests and X-rays. He was given the max of morphine and sent home with painkillers to see him through the next few days. He fell down a steep slope on the golf course and landed on his clubs. But he’s okay. He’ll sleep (maybe….) propped up on pillows. DS27 got the car and clubs and brought them home. I love my boys, they’re just the best!
Pop in when I can. I am another who is coming to realise things are never going to be anything like they were before. I live with a liar. I still feel strangely detached and was completely unemotional about H’s pain. The only thing I was aware of was listening for any gurgling or rattling that might indicate a punctured lung or the symptoms of a collapsed lung. He was taking very short and shallow breaths. But DS25 has done first aid stuff and is a volunteer fireman, so he kept a check on him in the back seat as I drove. Otherwise? Not as concerned as I would have been or as I should be. I think the business of withholding information to his whereabouts and not telling me about a “random” text last month and done it. He’s not who I thought he was – and he never will be.
FNF-my heart goes out to you.
WYE- So sorry to read about your mother's situation.
your post about your FWW was so sad but the answer is in there...
Do I close out my life with FWW? A life without empathy or emotional intimacy, which is not what I hoped for, but is better than it was. Or do I tear my family apart in the hopes that I might find a decade or so of real love with another person? I can be happy regardless, but I would like to experience the bond like my parents and some friends have with their spouses.
Tryin- That sex thing that you describe with your FWW- is very common in women of all ages...especially with older women.
I will try to find the article written by an MD on this subject.
Seems that many women do not feel like they are 'in the mood' but do find themselves enjoying the intimacy once they get into it...
[This message edited by njgal480 at 10:02 PM, November 13th (Sunday)]
I have made it clear that I need physical contact (including sex) to feel connected in this M. FWW has been just as clear that she is not comfortable with sex and other touching. She sees emotional intimacy as being dependant on another person and she is not able to do this. When I tell her what I feel and what I want she feels bullied and unworthy.
We will do a few MC sessions after T-giving. If I get a job offer where I am interviewing it will be just before or just after the new year. If the offer comes I would move about a month later. If the offer does not come, I hope FWW can be moved out by summer.
Divorcing will not make my life better, and initially it will cause problems, but it offers the opportunity for a real loving relationship sometime in the future and puts an end to the limbo of this one. We will both leave this M more self-aware.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:25 PM, November 13th (Sunday)]