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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 27
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell- you take care of yourself & your boyos - Dip & I are here for you.
(((Nell))


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
trying2deal
♀ Member
Member # 2597
Red  Posted: 11:36 AM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is not a dating thread - please discuss that in the NB forum and stick on topic here. Thanks.


All truth, in the long run, is only common sense clarified. Thomas Huxley

Posts: 13203 | Registered: Nov 2003 | From: LI, NY
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE and God's girl-

Dealing with a LTA is an emotional roller coaster.

And my husband was/is just like your's....he definitely wanted me 'to get over it' as soon as possible.

But..unfortunately it's not that easy.

When Laura talks about her heart issues and heart attack post d-day it reminds of the physical pain as well as emotional pain that I was in for such a long time after d-day...years really.

So..try to remember... LTA=long term recovery.

A book that I found to found be helpful was Dr. Ortman's-Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder.
WYE- It might be helpful for your husband to read this book..or at least some chapters. It may help him to understand the trauma that you are experiencing.

Now... as for the FWH's reaction post d-day.

That was unexpected for me.

I had always assumed that someone who engaged in an affair and especially in a LTA must have wanted to get out of the marriage, was unhappy with their spouse, did not love their spouse and was 'in love' with the affair partner.

So...when I kicked my husband out of the house after d-day and proceeded to file for divorce I assumed that he would just slink away somewhere and most likely end up with the OW.

Meanwhile he fought to save the marriage.

He told me that he always loved me and still loved me.

That he did not want to get divorced.

That he did not love the OW...never had.

That the LTA went on so long because....well... he didn't really have one answer for that one.

He said it was a routine, that he didn't know how to end it, that he wanted to end it...etc. etc.

And then.. my husband had the added problem of alcohol addiction in the mix.

The MOW was a also an alcoholic serial cheater and that was a big part of her attraction-she approved of his drinking while I certainly did not.

So, yes, not what one expects when you think about infidelity.
But, it does seem to be fairly common.
You hear it on SI all the time.
Apparently people can have LTAs and still love their spouse.

It is hard to wrap your head around-it was for me.

And it took me years to get to this point,but, I do believe my husband loves me and that he is truly remorseful about his behavior and is comitted to saving our marriage.

I just wanted to share a little bit of my story .

To let you know that I was there too at one point but have survived this journey of reconciliation...with all of the ups and downs.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal....That is almost exactly word for word what he says about the affair.

I know that to move forward for real, there are just a lot of things I am going to have to accept eventually....just not even close to there yet.

Just saw my therapist. She keeps reminding me to let myself be angry. I'm working on it. LOL


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi WYE and NJ

What NJ said her FWH said is almost word for word what my FWH said.

After finding out what he'd been doing and hearing how he talked to OW3 I was convinced he was going to leave me for her. I knew he was spending every spare minute with her and had heard him tell her he loved her. He hadn't said that to me in years. I had heard him making plans for the future with her and her family.

Like NJ I expected D. I knew about OW3 almost 2 weeks before I confronted him. During that time I got my ducks in order and prepared for him to go. Told the kids and my family as I was sure this would happen.

The funny part is we are only together because he made the NC call to her. We had been arguing for hours - me saying get out and him saying I want to stay. Finally in frustration I said call and tell her you are not leaving me, you don't love her, you never did, you love me and you don't want anything more to do with her.

I didn't expect him to call so when he did I was sort of stuck - because I'd said "If you want to stay make the call".

Well when he did I couldn't very well keep saying go could I?

Anyway. As NJ said this seems to be surprisingly common.

Our FWSs lied to the APs in the same way they lied to us. He told me he thought he was in love with OW3 but realised he wasn't when he wanted to stay with me. You see he now had the choice and he chose me.

Knowing all this doesn't really do much to help with the pain though does it?? Or the rage for that matter!!!

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:46 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura-
You're right. The rage and pain stayed with me for a long time post d-day. Even now I still have my triggers and am still amazed that all of this has happened to me...to us.
I think that R is possible if your FWH is remorseful and works hard to make amends to you.

Laura...did your FWH discuss the LTAs with your children?
Mine did. Since everyone knew about the LTA he had to deal with that when we R.
He apologized to the kids and other family members.

I do remind myself of that when I trigger.
In many ways it would have been easier for him to just leave.
We were separated for 6 months. The MOW's husband had finally moved out. She was available as a shoulder to cry on and yet he never once broke NC with the OW. Not once during those months of our S.
And..he wouldn't have had to face all of our friends and family members that know about the LTA, the S, the almost D, etc.
He was determined to save the marriage and didn't care what others thought.

In fact, due to his determination and his sobriety (over 4 yrs now) everyone has a new respect for him.

Kind of ironic,huh?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Ellejay
♀ Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe

Checking in to see how you're all doing.

WYE - yes, you need to get the anger out. It isn't healthy. I am 11 months past D-Day and I still don't believe I have really allowed myself to get ANGRY nor even got close to expressing how truly angry I am. It comes out in dreams though (more of that later). I am just fearful that when I eventually do blow, I am going to do something I may seriously regret. It is still very fresh for you and you're doing so well. Be proud of yourself.

Godsgirl - hugs to you.

NJ - I too will try and get hold of that book you mention as I feel I have gone/maybe still going through post-infidelity stress disorder. Thanks for recommending it. Didn't even know there was such a thing until recently .

Laura, Dip, DP, Tryn and everyone else - you are so supportive, I learn so much from you all.

Land of Ellejay:

Just need to get down a very disturbing and violent dream I had last night involving my ex, OW1 and her BH. This is about the second dream I've had re OW1 & stbxh this week, don't know why I am suddenly reliving it all - must be the meds. I've put it in italics to differentiate between the dream and reality

In the dream I was attempting an in-house separation with my ex (IRL he's out of the picture and living elsewhere). I then discover he has had OW1 in my house, no less than 6 times. I come home and discover them in the bath together. He uses the excuse that he needed to use up the bath salts he got in last year's Christmas stocking (that's the only funny part of the dream unfortunately). So of course in the dream I go completely beserk. I confront OW1 as well telling her exactly how I feel (I don't get violent). Then BH of OW1 goes completely off his head and chases down my WH with a couple of iron bars in hand. The results aren't pretty, with BH ending up dead and my WH seriously maimed. Then a Tsunami hits Adelaide in the middle of it all (as if there wasn't enough drama in my dream) and me and the kids end up swimming for our lives with my old house sinking to the bottom of the ocean. We end up at a Buddhist temple along with about 300 other people who have escaped the "Tsunami" and my daughter (who in the dream is only about 4 years old, when IRL she is 13), falls off a balcony and cracks her skull open!

Now, you don't need a degree in psychology to work out the signifance of this dream but bloody hell!! I feel like I have been run over by a truck this morning. I am obviously still totally traumatised by all this and feel totally pissed of that my stbxh is probably leaning back on a porch somewhere, telling OW2 what a great place he's in right now. Does he have nightmares about what he's done to his family I wonder? Not bloody likely.

Just needed to get that out.

I really admire those of you who are trying to R. I sometimes think I didn't allow enough time for the dust to settle to fully evaluate things but then I remind myself of the level of contempt shown and I know I did the right thing for me. This hell takes so long to get over even with all the positive affirmations I try to give myself each day. Even with all the wonderful things I have to be grateful for in my life.

I am meeting with stbxh in a couple of days to nut out the final details of our future divorce. I am trying hard to be civil to him but I just want to run him over. Will this feeling ever subside? I guess the answer is - How Long is A Piece of String?


Love Ellejay


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1072 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi ellejay

I have no understanding of dreams or psychology so if it sounds like I'm way off ignore me

I know for me that letting the anger out was hugely important. I have sworn like a sailor, screamed like a banjee, thrown things and even hit FWH a couple of times. Sobbing the whole time!!!! It was awful, exhausted me and frightened us both. But I think it did help.

I wonder if your dreams are somehow your mind trying to let the rage break free. The violence suggests that to me.

I found that in the first weeks/months I was filled with a cold fury. I had my rages but even after them I was still so angry. I spent far too much time fantasising about hurting the OWs, their properties, their relationships etc. People told me I was wrong to do this. That THEY didn't cheat on me, but I found it helped, I think because I also fantasised about how bad they'd feel. So my rage even towards them had a sort of outlet.

When I find the anger building even now I like to think about them alone and lonely in their cold beds. Missing my FWH. I think how they are now OLD (60+) and wasted years of their lives on a MM when they could have spent the time finding a single man to have a real relationship with.

Now I have my occasional rages but they are milder and the anger between is far less powerful.

I don't know how you can deal with yours. Perhaps an IC could help you to work out some strategies.

You could also look at EMDR. It was quite painful but so worth it. It helped me enormously.

Anyway, JMHO

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Ellejay
♀ Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Laura

I have always been very passive and laid back which is part of the problem. If I'm crossed however, then watch out!! Hell hath no fury! I have always just let things go until it is at the point that I am tipped over the edge instead of nipping it in the bud straight away. I think this stems from witnessing very volatile situations involving my own parents during my childhood and not ever wanting my own kids to witness that, so I've repressed a lot of stuff and therefore unwittingly enabled stbxh's behaviour.

Of course, I don't ever want to get violent, that would be stupid and of no benefit to anyone. I think I just need to write down these intense feelings and then burn the paper or something. I don't necessarily want my ex or the OW involved to live a life of misery funnily enough. I don't think that would make me feel better. I said to my son the other night "You know, I've only ever wanted the best for your father, so if he feels he has what he's always wanted, then I am happy for him" My son looked at me with admiration and said "Mum, I'm so proud of you for saying that". Of course I couldn't just leave it there could I? Oh No!! I then HAD to add "Yes, if your father feels he has "the best" by taking up with a whore whose prepared to sleep with another woman's husband and cheat on her's............." I was off on an absolute rant once again.
My son just rolled his eyes and I could see him thinking "OK, I spoke too soon on that one didn't I".

Just about to go for a good walk so that should burn off some rage.

Thanks for your wonderful words of encouragement.

Hugs to all


Ellejay

[This message edited by Ellejay at 7:39 PM, October 22nd (Saturday)]


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1072 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, October 22nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that I have done that has helped me tremendously is write.

I'm a writer anyway, and have had a secret journal for years to document my father's illness, my mother's narcissism and now my husband's affair. I can write there, no one ever sees it but me.

There is something magnificently therapeutic in just letting the thoughts out.

Whether it's journaling or writing a letter and burning it, I think it may help.

If I didn't write, I would totally go crazy.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
Ellejay
♀ Member
Member # 30498
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, October 23rd (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE - I write a lot, always have. I'm starting to undertake "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron to get back some creativity which I have lost in recent years. This is the most therapeutic outlet for me. Also reading, which takes my mind off my own situation.

Hopefully, you soon have something more joyous to write about


Ellejay


Married 25 years now divorced.
D-Day: 20/11/10
Me: 48.5 plus 10% GST
Him: mental age 6 (apologies to all 6 year olds)
Betrayal: Who cares anymore?

Posts: 1072 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Adelaide, South Australia
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, October 23rd (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ellejay- Dreams are our way of working out problems.
I rarely remember my dreams but I know I had many mornings post d-day when I would wake up crying in the middleof the night or extremely agitated and angry etc. and I knew that I was dreaming about the LTA.

I think Dr. Ortman's PISD book will be helpful for you.

It is written for both those that are trying to reconcile after infidelity and also for those that are divorcing but are still dealing with all of the PTSD like symptoms.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:51 PM, October 23rd (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE: My thoughts and prayers are with you with your kids. I pray everything will be ok. I do empathize with you about your mother. It had been suggested that my mother was BPD (borderline Personality disorder), but when I was reading in the NPD (Narcissist) thread, it seemed not only to be describing WH, but my mother as well. It is very difficult to live with this. I believe growing up with mom, BPD/NPD "trained" me to put up with NPD WH.

Nell: I'm so sorry how everything is turning out. If there is no true remorse or a willingness on the WH's part to make changes, there is not much that can be done. It is very sad, and I know I have spent a lot of time lately mourning and grieving at what I thought I had.

Ellejay: I'm also quite passive and don't like to let go of my anger either. My therapist keeps telling me to get angry!! That it would be healthy and help me to move on. I'm afraid of letting go of the anger because I'm afraid of losing control I guess. I think I have so much anger built up inside me that it won't stop and I'll do or say something I will regret later.

Miracle: I am so proud of you and your achievements!! Keep us updated, it is so encouraging and inspiring.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, October 23rd (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest, you were never in control anyway. The only thing you can control is yourself.

Did anyone appreciate the irony of being reminded this is not a dating thread -- since we are all here, of course, because our spouses chose to spend long portions of our marriages dating?

It just sort of tickled my funny bone.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, October 23rd (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M, you weren't the only one amused by that odd reminder.

I get that the mods are trying to keep all the threads on topic....but really?

Anyway.

FWH and I were sitting out front this afternoon and booty call girlfriend of the neighbor across the street pulls up. He makes some snide reference, I look at him like, REALLY???

Didn't you have a booty call whenever you needed it for the last 3 years? Not funny anymore.

We haven't talked since that.

Ugh.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, October 24th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: I was also a tad confused about that mod reminder and was wondering if I missed something.
You are right that we only have control over ourselves, but that's precisely what I'm afraid of if I let the anger out, that I'll lose control of myself. I know in the past if I get so angry, I'm incoherent and sound like I'm speaking in tongues and then will spend days and days later about what I "wished I said"....KWIM?

WYE: I hate it when the WS makes a comment on someone's morality or actions which were precisely what they were doing! It's the old, "Do as I say, not as I do" hypocrisy.

As for me, I'm surviving NPD's stay. I have to keep reminding myself that I cannot believe anything that comes out of his mouth and am always looking for ulterior motives for his actions. Being nice to me? So he can get his Narcissistic "supply" or have me do some paper work for his business. <sigh> I now have another tidbit to add to NPD's nomination for top asshat: He was thinking about marrying a 19 year old!! I don't know if he really did or not or is now....He's 53!!
Oddly, this knowledge makes me feel better. It makes me feel that OW is not "all that" and so much better than me. I know that intellectually, but it made me feel it more inside. It was freeing. I can detach even more.
DS 16 and I were having a discussion and I told him that although I love his father very much, I'm just trying to make this "VISIT" pleasant. I told him that his father is incapable of having a true intimate emotional relationship, and it saddens me because that is what I want and need, but it's just the way he is. But, I told DS 16 that his father loved him the most, to the best of his ability to love. I believe that DS understood the last part and felt better.
I do believe that NPD does love DS16, whatever capability he has, although I suspect NPD just wants DS to make him proud......

I'm still sitting here waiting for the other shoe to drop. Walking on eggshells expecting NPD to do or say something hurtful....not on purpose mind you, but because of his unthinking selfishness. Mom is doing a little better in the Physical Rehab place, but driving me crazy. With this, I'm seeing HER more and more clearly and really have come to the conclusion that she is not only BPD, but with A LOT of NPD traits. Oh joy!

hugs to the tribe.


Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jan 2010
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 24th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest.

I was also confused. It happens quite often to me. I guess it comes with being OLD.

The do as I say not as I do stuff must be in the cheaters, BPD, and NPD handbooks. I guess it must be handy to project all this evil onto others.

So Mr. NPD was thinking about a 19 year old! Wow that is really pushing the limit. Made me think of the Steely Dan song Hey 19.

m3.

Dare I ask? We have not had a Babby Paddy update for a bit.

Laura.

OLD (60+) You are right again!

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, October 24th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She's doing fantastic. Talking up a storm. Her therapy has worked beautifully and she's age appropriate in almost everything.

She's also ... funny! She has started telling jokes sometimes and it's really cute.

And she's talking in sentences all the time now.

And, she likes pretending to be a zombie. She's actually quite scary!

This past weekend she was on a moonbounce with her brothers and other bigger kids and having the time of her life. I was so grateful.

Oh, and she's got only one ear pierced. I guess she's going to be a pirate?


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, October 24th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Honest

Hang on honey!!! You are doing great.

M33

So nice to have you back and great news re Baby Paddy!

And, she likes pretending to be a zombie

Wow. So weird you mentioned this. My DS participated in the annual Brisbane Zombie Walk last weekend. People dress up as zombies and walk through the streets of the city. The costumes and makeup are awesome. He and his friends had a ball and helped raise more than $13000 for the Brain Foundation!!!! Check out "Brisbane Zombie Walk" on google images - pics are incredible.

Dip

When I say 60+ is "OLD" it is only with reference to OWs!!!!

Gosh it's getting late. Off to work!!!

HUGS to everyone

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, October 24th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...and it finally just clicked in my brain; WH's A's had nothing to do with ME.

Godsgirl, I am glad you found this realization. Try and hold on to it through the difficult parts. When FWW and I first went in to MC early after dday 2 years ago, one of the first things our MC said to me was "it wasn't about you". At the time, FWW was saying that it was all about me, but really it wasn't. I hope that you and your WS are able to arrive at a way to resolve the OC question.

honest, it looks like you too have had an 'aha' experience about NPD's issues having nothing to do with you.

m334455, thanks for the BP update, I am glad to read the good news.

As for love, FWW seems to be making a push to work on us, but it is clear that during her As and the time prior to them she did not love me. She was looking for a fling, and a new beginning with her first LTA OM.

((Nell)), sorry that he is just giving up rather than dealing with his issues. At least you have a clearer path now.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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