(((NPD's are like children stuck in an adult body. They are emotionally immature and incredibly selfish....much like children. But when you're the target of an NPD rage, you are dealing with a full grown man who is out of control.)))
Picture a 5 year old who has a tantrum.......he is pissed at mommy and daddy......but he kicks the dog.....throws spagetti at mom, and hits dad......all to try and get what he wants.
The do not develop emotionally due to some sort of emotional trauma during the ages when they shoul start developing emotonally....in a sense they are emotionally retarded. The same as a child whose motor skills do not develop due to a physical trauma, or a metally challenged child whose brain does not develop properly. Once the damage is done.....there is no undoing it. They spend the rest of their lives in emotional shut down and the emotional part of their brain does not develop beyond the point at which it was shut down. It is sad but real.
[This message edited by Frank2010 at 8:23 PM, February 18th (Saturday)]
Status: S & D'ing
I guess what I'm concerned about is if I kick him to the curb, and he commits suicide, is that going to be something I caused? Is it even likely?
You are not responsible for his consequences. You do what you have to do to take care of YOU. If that means he has to go, then he goes. If he falls to pieces, is homeless, if he robs a bank, gets hit by a bus, steps in front of the bus while thumbing his nose at you... YOU KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE PRIZE: Your future, your mental health, your needs.
It takes time to retrain our responses to need in them. Start focusing on the need in you. We have to find ways to feel good about taking care of us.
This is why No Contact is so important and necessary.
I'm not wobbling, really. I guess what I'm concerned about is if I kick him to the curb, and he commits suicide, is that going to be something I caused? Is it even likely? If he's Borderline rather than NPD, (as his resemblance to that article earlier was very profound,) or some mix, does that change the picture at all? Does that mean I need to handle his exit from the house any differently? Does any of that even matter, and crazy is crazy and I just need to get done with this?
Caregiver is exactly right. You cannot control or be responsible for his actions.
The statistic show that more women suffer from "borderline PD" and more men are afflicted with NPD.
Keeping that in mind, I wouldn't worry too much about him committing suicide. Even though NPD's have a limited capacity to love others, they do love themselves.
If he is making threats or hinting that he might do something like that, I would suspect this is a manipulation tactic.
If I were you and he threatens suicide, call the police and report that he is threatening suicide. They will pick him up and take him in for an evaluation. And that's it. Don't do any more.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 8:49 PM, February 18th (Saturday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)
I don't know if I'm taking on guilt I shouldn't, or if I'm being manipulated, or if I'm just afraid of doing the wrong thing, or...
Amazing how his suicide issue came up at just the right time in the squabble.....isn't it? Funny how he never mentioned it at the time when he was hurting so badly.
Manipulative cry for sympathy IMO. Secondly, if he does go through with it (which I doubt), he is responsible for his own choices......it is his choice to pull the plug. Thirdly, the next time he pulls the suicide card, call the paramedics or police and report his threat, that is where your reponsiblity ends. A couple of those will let him know that if he says it....he had better be serious about it. Cause after a judge hears it enough times, he will take it serious whether douche bag does or not. I'll be he doesn't bring that topic up again though.
ETA: Once the tactic quits working....he will move onto another tactic.
[This message edited by Frank2010 at 8:35 PM, February 18th (Saturday)]
I love the idea of calling 911 if he says it again. He wouldn't be so quick to try the pity me route again. And it couldn't hurt me in the divorce, really, especially if he ended up with a psych eval that wasn't so rosy. I hate that I sound like a cold-hearted bitch, but maybe that's where I need to be, right now. Because if I don't focus on taking care of what I need, he could potentially suck me back in. Maybe cold-hearted is the key for me, right now.
Does that sound more like the right thinking? I just know that I've got to end this, and I've begun getting plans put together. I've got a list of things to get done, and hopefully it won't be long before I can report that he's out. I long for that day. To know I don't have to deal with the eggshells... What a thought!
Does that sound more like the right thinking?
I hate that I sound like a cold-hearted bitch, but maybe that's where I need to be, right now.
You certainly can't deal with a man with a cold heart if you are dealing from a warm heart.
My STBXWH has threatened as well. I'm sorry you're going through this, but stay strong!
Married: 11 years, no kids
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo
I have a list:
My friend is going to "take me out for coffee," which is code for going to my son's bank, (NOT ours!) to start an account to change my direct deposit to when the time comes. I will be explaining the situation to them, and asking them to NOT mail anything to the house. I may have to get a PO Box just to handle that part, for now. I'll give the key to my son, and he can pick up all mail.
My son is going to loan me some money to accomplish this, so WH won't find a trail. On another trip right before I toss him out, we will also go to storage and I'll buy a new lock, and not tell WH, so he can't steal things.
I'm going to get a secret cell phone, so I can call 911 if necessary, and also be able to call Social Security to talk with them, (without WH knowing!) about the necessary changes in my situation, and what my situation really is. I also have to find out how long it will take to change the direct deposit, so that I can time it properly. That could also lead to more resources for me and my son.
I will be taking him OFF my doctor, hospital AND pharmacy records as someone to contact and as someone who has any right to my information AND MEDS! That will all be transferred to my middle son.
I will BURN the Power of Attorney if I can locate it, and I will have my middle son sign a new one to be notarized, so it will supercede the old one. My son will keep control of it, so WH can't find it.
There are other things, but these are the big ones I can think of right now. I am a stone-cold-hearted bitch, and there will be no stopping or changing this plan. It is now "in the open" with two people who will not let me waffle on it, and then there's you all to help me keep that bitch ball moving.
The last month or so has been difficult, confusing, frustrating, enlightening and scary. But what it's shown me is that I'm a lot stronger than I thought, more intelligent than I have been given credit for, and in general, a lot healthier emotionally than I imagined. That article I read today crystalized the last of the picture for me, and I stopped wanting to fix him at all.
I have to say a huge thank you to all of you for helping me through this. Without you all, I'd be wallowing in despair, and not knowing what to do anymore. SVB, you started it for me, and Frank, you took me through the worst of the fear, confusion and wobbling. But ALL of you have carried me through the initial stages.
I cannot say how grateful I am, because words just don't convey it. I know I have a long way to go, but you all just pulled me out of a very large, rancid pile of shit that would have engulfed me completely. I wish we had heart icons, but I'll have to settle fores and ((((((((((HUGS!))))))))))
I think I may sleep like a normal person tonight. The relief and expectation are beginning to creep in... I'm starting to get excited about this whole new life thing!
I read this one: The Dance
She explains the dance/marriage between a Narcissist man and a Borderline woman.
Some of it didn't apply to him (the entitlement, grandiose thinking - he gets off more on self shame and then blame), and some of didn't apply to me (promiscuity, lack of self worth - unless I'm fooling myself), but holy the parts that did apply really opened my eyes.
I could definately relate to having a disorder when it comes to rejection. She described my mother to a T (and the results of her mothering). I definately have abandonment issues. H clearly has issues with engulfment.
We have both been push/pulling for years!!!
The author, who I think is brilliant btw, basically says that in order for someone to BE invloved with an N, that they MUST have damage within themselves to even be attracted in the first place.
I'm finding this so interesting! I'll bring it up in therapy tomorrow.
I hope someone else read it. I would love to hear what others think.
& that's fine you know? It's about time we worked on ourselves and our own physical, mental, and emotional health!
How much time have we already wasted being 'all caught up with a dumb-ass'? Managing their all unnecessary and artificially manufactured dramas?
Hooray for me and my "issues", it's *me time* baby!
(My issues keep me from being boring, that's for dam sure!)
Know what you're going to find?
Your very own awesome.
Re: suicide threats.
Maybe some are reading the certainty of the posts that pronounce it as manipulation & threats, and wonder; "What if it's not? What if they're serious? What if they do carry it out?"
What strengthened me was a collection of 'advice' or 'counsel' letters I had been reading - the subject was adultery, and they had been written in the late 18 or early 1900's (!)...anyway, to the threat of suicide, the author tells the (husband, in this case) - that he should not yield to her 'wicked demands', & that if if the WW should carry out the threat, it would be better for him to look upon her, 'silent in death', than to let her murder not only her own soul - but that of her H, and many others.
It strengthened my resolve greatly!
That being said, the vast majority of the time, it is an empty threat. A desperate and thinly-veiled attempt to suck you in.
When you're further out, and away from this juvenile, attention-seeking insanity, you'll see it for just that: juvenile.
In fact, you'll get to where you have a pretty good sense of the age your Npet 'arrested'.
(mine's about 13 )
Oh, and the reason for the 'certainty'?
Pffft! I wonder how many of (((tribe))) haven't smelled that particular merde-dropping!
Go on out now.
Find your awesome.
We didn't choose our parents or our upbringing.
And yes, they do make us interesting and not boring!
I'm really enjoying researching this. One reason is because whenever I read the list for N characteristics, I could see myself in it too. For instance, I'm not the one with the rage problem, but I have the entitlement down. He has the passive aggresive trait/lack of self-worth/shaming, If I'm honest, I often think I think I'm better than others.
Between the 2 of us, we make a whole Narcissist!!
Just thinking out loud...
The problem lies when most of the characteristics (7 of 10) are present and make up the foundation of the individual's personality. Then it becomes Narcissistic Personality DISORDER.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 11:36 AM, February 19th (Sunday)]
I read more of the articles, and I can say with fairly good accuracy and truth that, although I have issues, I'm not BPD or NPD myself.
Part of the reason I can say this is that I spent years in therapy, dealing with that horrible childhood. I had a great counselor, and we did a lot of really hard work. Obviously not enough for me to steer clear of and then see my way out of Npet land. But looking back at who I was when I met him, and who I am today, there is a VAST difference in those two people... the injured child I was and the damaged but stronger adult I am.
I am convinced that, with some work, I can become whole. What I believe happened, and this is today's first epiphany, is that meeting him interrupted the journey I was on. I was well on my way to becoming healthy, and he waylaid me. Casanova came on strong and protected me from my family! What he really did was damage my relationships with a lot of them, and my friends, and in doing so, isolated me.
So I have work to do, but not as much as I feared. I have been in arrested development for years, but all this has given me some insight into how I ended up here. And that I can resume my journey into healing. It's not a great way to spend 25 years, but hey... what can I do about it now?
Continue the journey. That's what. NOT let this be where I stay. KEEP GOING and get to where I was going. And I have great friends to help me do that.
We are the sum total of our experiences, and who I am is not that bad. Damaged, yes, but destroyed? Never. Just a little delayed from my destination.
in doing so, isolated me
I have been in arrested development for years, but all this has given me some insight into how I ended up here.
[This message edited by gma56 at 2:54 PM, February 19th (Sunday)]
Think of it this way, if he is bluffing and you call he will know he can't play this again and if he is serious then he gets some help. Either way it is a win/win because if he was not bluffing and you don't call you will feel like you failed somehow.
I am sure we all have damage that draws us to someone like this. It is more important that we finally see it and take control of our own life and work towards a life that we are safe and happy. I personally don't believe that you can be safe and happy with someone who has a PD.
Ok now I have to go and catch-up on the tread and see how everyone is doing. You guys have been busy.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
Thank you for posting the article
Suppressed anger has been my problem for years.
In fact yesterday I blew up at DSS for his inconsiderate behavior towards me.
I know exactly what you mean, gma. I've walked on those damn eggshells so long that I have a hard time controlling the bursts at this point. When I discovered what I was dealing with, it became even harder. I would go long periods without ever raising my voice, then suddenly, WOW, out it would come, all at once.
The worst part was that it was usually NOT directed at WH, who was the cause of it. My childhood taught me to stuff it all down deep, and dissociation became my survival. Those things are not healthy, but it's the worst when it comes boiling out at someone who it's not meant for.
I always felt horrible when it happened, and WH used it against me every time. Of course, he can rage at nothing, and that's just fine.
But... once I don't have eggshells poking my tender feet, those things will smooth out. I know I can be better, even without therapy, just by getting WH out of my life. Therapy is essential, but not having that empty shell jabbing at me day in and day out will relive so much of the pressure!
Which reminds me. Not that I think it will be necessary, but I am including in my plans a letter to leave with my friend with instructions as to what to do if things go... not so well. That will include coming here to let you all know if something happens. I'm covering ALL the bases. Just in case. Then you'll know it was me if you see it on the news, and can give the police my posts.
But no stressing over it, guys. The cheater deaths last week or so made me think of it, because someone said, "I always wonder if that was an SI'er." I do, too. So I'll remove the chance for any doubt.
Also, if I don't post tomorrow, don't panic. WH gambled, we're broke, and the internet might get shut off. Man, I'm sick of this. Oh, and he's blaming my middle son, because he's so selfish he won't pay OUR bill.