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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread part 9
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not viewed or read anything by Vaknin. An early warning from a wise survivor made me eliminate him from my searches. So I cannot speak to the validity of the warning or the article.

(My Opinion)
Sam Vaknin is a raging narcissist a psychopath and also a criminal. (actually this info is fact)

His education has come into question many times, especially his "Phd". I believe he has intentionally mislead the public and the people who seek out his advice. He is all self-serving.

He also claimes to be "self-
diagnosed".

I think that some of his articles and advice are ok. But you need to remember who is behind the keyboard. He's getting LOTS of attention through all of this. (quite a nice place for an N) Further, I compare accepting advice from Vaknin as accepting advice from my XNPDH.

It goes without saying THAT would never happen.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 3:04 PM, February 13th (Monday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As I reflected on Vaknin after Caregiver's warning, I came to the conclusion that while the man himself may be a fraud and NPD, his information is fairly accurate. I have gotten my information from more than one source (Many hours sitting in the floor of the self help aisle at B.Dalton). Most of the authors may vary slightly on their perception and interpretation of the behaviors, yet they are all remarkably very similar.

Learning what I have about Vaknin has killed any respect that I might have had for him (and the Femfree blogs which I gleemed a lot of information from). But in the end it does not change what I have learned about NPD.

I am through researching NPD. Caregiver gave me some great advice and I need to work on myself now. I know enough about NPD to know how to react when I discover that I am in their presence. I know most of the signs of NPD by heart. And I think everyone should learn about these things and understand what they are dealing with.

I personally became obssessed with the quest for more knowledge. I am letting that obssession go....or trying to anyway. I know enough. As Caregiver told me, to heal my wounds and quit focusing on NPD she told me this

Learning about the knife does not heal the wound.

I hope it was ok to quote you Caregiver. It was very sound advice.....for me and for the situation I found myself in. I have found a little Peace and a little more balance. I do not HAVE to be the expert on NPD.....I don't HAVE to know EVERYTHING. I know enough. I learned enough to ease my mind and sort out my confusion. I am done researching. I am working on being ok with who I am now. I am working on sorting out my feelings about where I am now. I am working on letting go of the past. I am focusing on what today will bring me. I am looking forward to what tomorrow will bring me. I am trying not to be sad for what I have lost. I am trying to be grateful for what I have left. I am trying to be grateful for what I will receive.

It is not easy, but I am trying.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
Jpapageorge
♂ Member
Member # 31800
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once again Frank, you are leading by example. Thank you.


"Either get busy livin' or get busy dyin'." (and I prefer to live)
"Shame on me for kissing you with my eyes closed."
Spectemur agendo.
Me: FBBF

Posts: 1656 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: California
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 5:35 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jpapa,

Nothing more entertaining that the blind leading the blind. Bouncing off walls is now a group sport.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frank, your obsession has helped many here. What our x's couldn't give us, you did, understanding of the hell we were in.

SI and this forum has helped me in the last couple of months and has given me the strength to detach and see him for what he is and for the person I turned into for the sake of the family.

Frank you are probably a lot closer to healing than you realize. But everyday is one day closer to us and one day further away from them.

Remember, we may wobble but we have already been to hell and we ain't gonna go back!

[This message edited by wontdefineme at 6:28 PM, February 13th (Monday)]


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sadtoo= wise survivor. I don't know that I ever expressed it before, but thanks for leading me through so many difficult days. It is good to see you.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:32 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sadtoo= wise survivor. I don't know that I ever expressed it before, but thanks for leading me through so many difficult days. It is good to see you.

My goodness. That is one of the nicest things anyone has said to me. it's good to see you too.
(((caregiver9000)))

It's really nice to know I helped in some way.

All of us have traveled a difficult road. We have all learned in our own time and in our own way. Sadly, most of my information was gathered from living it, so most of my "shared experience" has been from first hand knowledge. ((shudder))

Those of you who have been around for awhile will remember some of my nightmare.

I can't believe it has been TEN years ago in March that I had him removed via protection order. I am still in the same house, and for the past few years there have been no "sightings". However, I am worried again because my new H and I just bought a place in the country and will be moving soon. It's very strange, but i have many required upgrades that are being installed as we speak. A locking entry security gate with a keypad entry and video, surveillance system installed in the house as well as the outbuildings. We even went
as far as creating an LLC for our horse business and putting the LLC name on the property title. That way he cannot simply do a name search and find us. Maybe he's gone for good, but I'm not taking any chances.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:33 PM, February 13th (Monday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, count me as one of the people who has learned from you, Frank. But like every other obsession, this one has to go, too. Is now a good time to mention I'm OCD?

Seriously, though, I think we all react in different ways. And I think obsession is not a bad thing, as long as it's not extreme. After all, you have learned so much, you nailed my WH's NPD speak very easily. Because of that, I learned it quick, too. For that, I will always be grateful.

But it IS time to heal yourself, and learn to live again. You've earned it, and deserve it very much. So lead on, because the group of wall-bouncer-offers still needs someone - several, in fact - who can lead.

I am at a turning point as well, and I'm glad of it. The sadness of realizing I'd let the years slip by has gone for now... into the realization that I still have a son who needs to understand what's happened in his life, and is going to soon need to understand even more.

(((((tribe)))))


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, February 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too have a son I need to help heal and understand that he wasn't abandoned, but that his dad was just damaged and broken and didn't know any better. So now I have understanding, how do you help the kids understand so they wont be damaged and vulnerable to the NPDs of this world.

Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
soverybetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 32948
Happy  Posted: 11:35 AM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Valentines Day Everyone!!

I woke up this morning to a reminder of my stbxnpdwh, I have a canker sore! He was a 12 year canker sore! I will get rid of all canker sores in my life! But seriously, I am so at peace today because I am not having to watch him cheat on me with the.MOW neighbor gutter slut this year. I must be at the top of this roolercoaster to feel so at peace.

I hope everyone has a peaceful day.


Me-53
DDay 10/16/2010 DDay2 5/22/2011
Divorced 8/23/2012
I will get stronger and better but no matter where he goes, there he is....

Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Being an AWESOME ME!
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Valentine's Day, tribe! I hope everyone has a decent day, if it can't be a great one.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
Jpapageorge
♂ Member
Member # 31800
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Svb, it is too bad that there is no campophenique to get rid of zebraducks.

I, also, hope everybody has a peaceful V-Day. Do something nice for yourselves today since you are all worth the effort.


"Either get busy livin' or get busy dyin'." (and I prefer to live)
"Shame on me for kissing you with my eyes closed."
Spectemur agendo.
Me: FBBF

Posts: 1656 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: California
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very peaceful. He has been ignoring me for days. Must have found a cheap date for today, he is broke after all and his office is full of willing women to date married men. He could have proved to me what he was willing to do for his family and today would have been a good day to start. Thank goodness I haven't held my breath waiting. I guess his npdness is punishing me today for not forgiving him.

Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello, Tribe. I hope everyone has been enjoying a peaceful Valentine's Day.

Things here are relatively calm, though I'm always waiting for the other shoe to fall.

I found this over on my newest obsession - Pinterest - and thought of you all. A little Valentine's Day funny...

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 8:03 PM, February 14th (Tuesday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7635 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like

Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 10:26 PM, February 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are actually 2 things that Vaknin helps to point out:

1. That there's no such thing as an inactive or cured psychopath. They will always be looking for some source of supply, whether it's positive or negative. So you can either learn to live with an active NPD or an NPD who may change his motivations at any second when s/he doesn't get supply. Either way, you're dealing with a ticking time bomb.

2. That there's a huge difference between admitting wrongdoing and being treated for a personality disorder. This is the one that most people get caught up on. "My spouse admits that they're wrong! They do it all the time!" Yeah, but how do they do it? Chances are, they rarely admit to Vaknin's particular vehicle, grandiosity, which is:

a. I'm so original, nobody can understand me but me. So you'd better pay attention.

They are more likely to focus on you-based admittances, such as:

b. You keep me on a pedestal. Nobody could live up to your standards.

c. You don't understand me. It's your fault; you lack communication or understanding skills.

d. I've always lived outside of society's rules as a noncomformist. So I understand that you, with your limited view, can't understand me. Many people can't.

[This message edited by veritas at 9:59 AM, February 15th (Wednesday)]


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
Lola2kids
♀ Member
Member # 32789
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, February 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS has used c and d of the 4 you mentioned.

c. You don't understand me. It's your fault; you lack communication or understanding skills.

"You need to grow up and to realize that I have so much more experience than you and you never listen to me, you never take my advice."

d. I've always lived outside of society's rules as a noncomformist. So I understand that you, with your limited view, can't understand me. Many people can't.

"Never label me, I am unique and not like anyone else." and "After 12 years together, you know me so little?"

Today I got from him that if he wanted me back he would get me. He knows what to do to get me back. He knows that I would take him back because I want him.
It was quite chilling. I don't want him back but what does he think he can do to get me back? Talking the way he did to me today just gave me the creeps and I am glad I have an appointment tomorrow with my IC. Shudder.

[This message edited by Lola2kids at 2:15 PM, February 15th (Wednesday)]


BS: (Me) 47
Kids: twins DD(9)
WS: Him 49 (X...together 12 years)
D-Day April 18, 2011, he moved out Sept. 11, 2011...
They say that absence makes the heart grow fonder
I'm finding that I am growing more and more fond of his absence.

Posts: 1225 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: Ontario, Canada
Free2012
♀ Member
Member # 34070
Default  Posted: 4:12 PM, February 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too have a son I need to help heal and understand that he wasn't abandoned, but that his dad was just damaged and broken and didn't know any better. So now I have understanding, how do you help the kids understand so they wont be damaged and vulnerable to the NPDs of this world.

Dear defineme. I can so relate!
This is what I struggle with the most!
But so far the kids are doing fine and I think several things might help:
Be as strong, normal and consequent as you can! Show them to be somebody they can rely on, they know they can trust and try to never say anything nasty about their dad ( difficult but manageable).
They will soon see that you are the "home base" and consider the rest as "occasional and therefore manageable.
I learned a lot from caregiver/sadtoo/Frank to do things quietly and carefully which helped a great deal concerning the kids, too.
Never ever follow your emotions if your kids father is NPD !
I even answer some of his emails with the help of an ic! It helped/helps a great deal to never let the situation escalate!
Try to get other people involved, that spend time with your kids! Do not hesitate to explain the situation!
We got offered so much understanding in school/ neighbourhood..... It is very comforting and important!

Because the kids- bit by bit- choose to also get information elsewhere. So it is extremely important to be as open and honest as possible to them.


There is no way out but through

Divorced

BS: me 41 yrs
WH: him 67 yrs , married OW (39yrs) 5/13
2 kids aged 7 and 9
married for 12 years
D-Day 16.10.10
Divorced, final 03/12


Posts: 53 | Registered: Nov 2011
juki
♀ Member
Member # 34784
Default  Posted: 5:05 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I belong in this thread. I just ordered Narcissistic Lovers.

We have atleast a dozen caulking guns. Wierd.

Ok, going to finish reading this thread. Very illuminating.

Oh, he saw my therapist the other day, and I think he "played her". I can only go by what he mentioned as I don't see her until Monday. Has anyone else experienced this?

This thread has made me realize that I'm not crazy and unreasonable.

Thank you!!!


Me: 45
H(Sazerac): 46
M: 25,T: 27
S24

Posts: 550 | Registered: Feb 2012
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, February 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Juki,

Sorry you find yourself on this thread. The good news is that by the time you read and learn everything about NPD......the infidelity will not be your biggest problem. It will only be a symptom of the bigger problem.

And yes, my STBX saw 4 or more different ICs.....and rewrote the history of the marriage and portrayed herself as the Victim....the last one referred her to a Chrisis Center when my insurance exceeded the limits and I would not pay for anymore sessions.


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
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