All I could do is stare at him in disbelief and cry. So, I thought, alright if you want to fix things... and I began to tell him, in excrutiating detail just what he had done to me, just how bad I had hurt from his betrayal, and how badly it hurt now because I had finally begun to be able to find my feet underneath me and he sweeps in like this.
It became what I'm learning is his NPD wall: HE didn't do it, well, okay, maybe he did some things, but he wasn't the only one that did things wrong. Things were going to have to change. (Of course, when he began listing things that needed to change, it was all things for ME to change, like NOT putting the children ahead of him.)
I told him no. This isn't happening, and this isn't going to happen. So then, he asked me to dinner. While I was getting ready to go (and praying the entire time), it hit me. It's like a fisherman. When the first bait (swearing his undying love and devotion) didn't work, then he went to the second bait (yelling, intimidating, shaming me). When that one didn't work, he switched again to the third bait, bribery.
What he didn't expect is that I'm learning to see him beyond the smoke and mirrors. I've begun to like the feel of having a backbone. I let him buy me an expensive dinner. I even let him take me to the department store. I walked around with all good cheer and spirits, watching him trying to pick up this thing or another, and I never took the bait.
We pulled in front of the house and he admitted that his OW has backed off from their relationship. Surprise, surprise, surprise! Then I gave him my answer about reconciliation - I don't trust you anymore.
Now, he's pouting because he couldn't bait me. He wasn't able to confuse me or scare me (God was giving me the grace I asked for). He didn't get anywhere at all. And I feel... like I just won a battle that I've been fighting for 17 years.
Me - BS, 41
Him - WS NPD, 54
Kids - 20S, 17D, 15S
2 grandbabies - Twins!
17 yrs & 5mnts to the DAY of M
There is no turning back from what he's done to me. On the road to D.
Great start!!! Maybe that will buy you a little space so you can take time to study up on NPD. The whole motel thing....he was a martyr. Put HIM in front of the KIDS????? Uhhhh, NO. That is "I need to be the center of the universe". Ummmm.....the kids are the center of the universe and he is URANUS!!!!
All the fake remorse.....ummmmm, my other source and supply fell through....would you feed memy ego kibbles till I can find a more reliable source than skankerella???
Good job on feretting all of that out of him. NPD is a foreign language.....it always needs translation....remember that. Sincerity is not in their dictionary.
Status: S & D'ing
I especially learned about the different "stages" that a N goes thru when finding their next victim
I can now clearly distinguish when each of those stages occured in our 18 yr marriage and I have to say that, WOW- I'm surprised we lasted that long since he's such a mess!!!
I admit that I have a different perspective now of XWH, I feel sorry for him because he will continue to fool himself into believing he's happy and I even feel kinda sorry for his 23 y/o OW (wife) She is so young and naive- boy, is SHE in for a rude awakening when he starts into his Devaluation stage! Its not a matter of if, its WHEN!
[This message edited by Faithsurviver at 10:09 PM, January 15th (Sunday)]
Book: stop walking on eggshells. Paul Mason.
It is written in a male victim- women aggressor perspective and you will be suprised the many traits and behavior that a bipolar woman has that is narcissist.
It does talk a bit about NPD and that might be the closest perspective and feedback as to how the dysfunction works.
You need to be checking your local libraries, alot of the books I have gotten from there, no need to spend $$$.
I don't know if it ever happened to some of you but there comes a time when we feel and question if maybe it is US who are personality disordered and to an extent we are but not the extent of our Ex's.
The mere fact that we can accept we have faults and work on changing makes us different and not as "broken" as they are. The learned behaviors in order to cope with Personality disordered people is so covert that before we know it we realize that we are as bad as they make us out to be at times, but KNOW this.. we have empathy, we hurt and turn outward for help, we work on change..we will be better.
I don't know if it ever happened to some of you but there comes a time when we feel and question if maybe it is US who are personality disordered and to an extent we are but not the extent of our Ex's
Great subject to bring up. Ha, I even posted some time back that I was concerned that I was NPD....and yes I have more narcississtic traits than I used to have...and probably even more than is healthy. I find this to be more true in the selfish, self centered, aspect. Though I have become almost as selfish and self centered as STBX....I still have the ability to feel empathy. I still have the ability to admit fault, I still have the ability to feel remorse (even though I have been more prone to blameshifting than is healthy), I still have ability to love (though much more gaurded). There are more similarity/differences, but you get the drift.
Living with an NPD, we have all had to adjust who we are, to cope with their brokeness. Possibly we have adjusted some aspects to an unhealthy level.....but we will NEVER be NPD
A certain level of narcississm exists in everyone. It is necessary for survival. Otherwise we would just be doormats. We have to look out for #1 at least a little, or the NPD would walk all over us. Trying to set those limits to healthy levels is the hard part.
I guess the only concern I have left about this topic is, How do we reverse the "programming" back to a healthy level??? I am hoping that removing them from influencing our lives, and being involved with "normal" people, will start the process automatically.
I wonder if there are any books or published info on just this specific issue??
It seems like I have gotten behind on my reading and now I have a growing list of things I want to research and read about. I think I am starting to become obssessed again. Difference is, this time around I have a lot more going on in my life and don't have time for the obssession.
Thanx for the book suggestion. I have added it to the list. As for the library suggestion.....small town library....they are not much help. Hell the bookstores don't have half of what I would like to read. I think Amazon is going to have to become my only resource....due mostly to time constraints.....but limited because of financial constraints. It is a real balancing act.
[This message edited by Frank2010 at 11:18 PM, January 16th (Monday)]
My eyes are so very blurry from reading for 4 or 5 days all these posts. I decided it's better for me to post here than in General, because I really have come to believe I belong here.
You all have written the story of my life for me, so what in the world can I add? It's unnerving how much of what you've been through is what I AM going through, and will be forced to go through for a long, long time to come.
I have come to several realizations, and none of them are good. My XWS was NPD, too. He bragged about breaking my ribs, ran to the OW's house (LITERALLY!) whenever she called him, blamed me and accused me of everything under the sun, always had MY symptoms, got physical with me many times... He was a piece of work. That marriage only lasted 5 years, because I was so fresh out from a damaging childhood, I wasn't going to do it.
My next relationship was with someone who was NPD. Jeez, I sure can pick 'em. He was not physically abusive other than when he'd drug me and rape me. There's more, but that's enough about him. My middle son is his, but he never knew it... I wouldn't subject my son to that. He lasted less than a year.
Thought I was doing well to recognize the bad guys.
Then I met current WS. 25 years later, I find the term NPD, and realize they ALL were. Holy moly. Yeah, I can spot a bad guy a long way away! And apparently, attract him straight to me!
Frank, thank you for the help you've been giving me through PMs. I SO appreciate what you've given me so far. And the rest of you, too, in these threads. I hate that I have to be here, but I am positive, now, that it's the right place.
If you've read my other posts on General, you have a good basic story on me. Horrible childhood full of every abuse imaginable. Two marriages to NPD cheaters. This current one seems to be a serial cheater, as well.
sigh... Well, I guess I'm officially a tribe member. Yay for me, huh?
I'm not so much scared, at this point, as I am sad. I really thought things were different in this relationship, and it turns out I picked just as badly as before. It makes me think that, when I finally get out of this, I'm never going to have another one. I don't want the risk anymore. I'd rather live alone with my dog, than take a chance on finding another soul sucking psychic vampire.
I could be wrong about WH, but I'm actually becoming more sure of it every day. I plan on asking your questions, Frank, and I've come up with a way to introduce the subject so that it doesn't sound like I suspect anything. I'll let you all know what his answers are.
I don't feel like puking all the time, anymore, at least. That's what I've felt like for days, but it's subsiding. I read someone saying they wanted a physical confrontation just to get the "marks" to prove violence. I'm ashamed to say I want the same. I'm just afraid that, in the shape I'm in, I'd get more hurt than I could handle... so I don't think I'll be poking the bear right now, if at all, if I can help it.
Right now, he's trolling on FB again, and earlier today was on Mr. Skin and Nudography.com. Gotta see those naked celebs. Won't have sex with me, though, unless he's drunk. I figured out what the game is with the sex thing, today. He wants me to beg for it. Well, I'm not going to. I never liked the whole begging thing, as I find it degrading. So he's going to have a good... long... wait. No way in heck am I debasing myself for him.
It's hard for me to fathom not having emotions, or being able to love. I cry for people, hurt for them, love them... I just can't grasp how you could NOT do those things. I know it's real, because I live with it. He's horrible to people behind their backs, but sweet as pie to their faces.
He says I'm the reason he has no friends. Well, when he gets a call from the same guy EVERY night at this time, and has a friend who's stuck with him through every rotten thing he's done, and lots of other people who see the charm, I'd say he has friends. Of course, they won't last once supply ME is gone, because he's going to break out and prove who he is, at least for a while. Both the friends I mentioned in particular are also friends of mine. Neither of them are going to like him after this is over. Both have had horrible abuse in their relationships, and you can guess how that's going to play out.
Another thing he does that makes me really mad is that he picks fights with people, seemingly just for the fun of it. Reaction need, I know. Road rage? You bet. He'll nearly crash us just to "get back at" someone who did something he didn't like. Scream in my face like some of you were talking about. Say the same stupid thing over and over, and expect a "Gee, honey, you're the funniest guy alive!" reaction every time. Day after day.
Gotta be the loudest guy in the room. Smartest. Funniest. Most everything. Complains about every last thing. Is mean to service people if they disappoint him. Flirts with every female in his range. Has more females than males on his FB friend list, and never interacts with half of them in "public," which means chatting. Most of them are Fillipino or some similar race. Most don't even use English on their pages. Pretty simple deduction.
I'm playing house and rugsweeping while I figure out how to start saving money. Our income is MY SSI, which he spends like water. I haven't had actual cash in my hand in months, other than for Christmas, when he had no choice because my entire check was in his wallet. (He's on the account because he overdrew mine so many times they closed it, so I had to be added to his just for direct deposit. Now he has a card. sigh)
Anyway, I am both pleased to have found you all, and sad that it was necessary. I am emotionally detaching from him, which isn't actually too hard, because he's been such an ass I've been doing it for a while. It's a matter of getting things in order to get out. Like I said, that could take a few years, at this point, unless he goes off on me and leaves marks. That would solve that problem.
So here I am, tribe. 2X4 me freely. I've lived with it so long, it doesn't hurt much anymore. Especially not now that I know what I'm dealing with. Detachment isn't as hard as I thought it would be... is that just wishful thinking on my part and I'm headed for a fall?
I hope not.
He gets me every times, he said for his new years resolution he would start going to church, now whenever I leave the house is when he watches his shemale porn, so I am thinking this is a good step.
Not so much, I had to pick up my daughter from work and he calls me to see if I am on the way home, so this morning I check and I was right he was watching porn at 5:05 so I guess what everyone says is right they will never change.
he will just keep giving me false hope and making me feel like I am the one that is crazy.
He has almost all the addictions that go with NPD, porn, gambling and lying.
He says his lies so quick that you can't keep up. he lied about the money in the bank and said it in such a convincing way that if I did not know he was lying I would have beleived him.
Then last night he started complaining about my daughter not helping around the house and said that he is trying to do the right thing and he is at the end of his rope.
It is at that very moment that I want to confront him and tell him everything I know and I have to remind myself of the NPD rage that I would have to suffer if I did.
I just can't help thinking that if he will lie to me about money and feelings than what else is he lying about.
Last night when he was complaining I brought up the fact that he also has to do something to save the house and as soon as I said that he was done talking. I also told him that I was the one that was hurt and I spend so much mediating and trying to keep peace that all my feelings have been pushed to side.
I don't know if this post makes any sense I just needed to vent.
The hardest thing in the world is finding out that we have fallen for someone that is not only Mr.(or Ms.) Wrong, but Mr.(or Ms.) REALLY Wrong!
No one sets out in life with the idea that their ideal life mate will be twisted, abusive and utterly self-absorbed. To me, it seems the worst part of an NPD - that they are so f***ing charming. They can light up a room and make everyone think they are the most wonderful person ever. It's like finding a treasure chest full of poison. At least it seems so to me.
I'm wondering now though, has anyone ever heard of NPD running through families? His mother, his brother, his sister and he, they are all the same to one degree or another. Is it possible or just coincidence?
[This message edited by SoHurt at 7:05 PM, January 18th (Wednesday)]
Right now, right this moment, I am so angry I want to hurt him. I can barely contain my anger, and it's about to boil over. This is not word for word because he's SO FREAKING LONG WINDED, but it's close enough.
First off, he's got a gambling issue. (This suspectedNPD WS.) So he's been justifying going out to the casino so he can "get his free $5 and win some cigarettes." Then it grew to going out there for the drawing to win $100. Well, until I threw a huge fit about him spending MY SSI money at the casino, he was spending LOTS OF IT. Drinking while he did it, too, because "it hurt his back to sit at the machines!" (He's an alcoholic.)
For a while, he would say he was going to get me cigs, but being gone long enough that I knew he was gambling. When I called him on it, he got PI$$ED! He switched tactics and started telling me who he'd run into. On and on it goes. Nothing stops him from doing precisely what he wants to, when he wants to.
Tonight, he said he was going to the drawing. I just said, "ok." No problem from him, he's happy as a lark. I'm having a bad day, and he KNOWS that. It's a high pain day, my emotions are raw, (not that HE cares,) and I'm just generally not ok. After I argued him about the history of MY van that he destroyed, then with my 24 year old son about his whining about the situation HE PUT HIMSELF IN, WS hugged me and said, "oh, honey, it's ok. He'll never listen." I told him AT THAT POINT, that I was in a foul mood and just wanted to be left the F alone.
So he goes to the drawing. Bad enough, that. The van breaks down just before he gets there, but he fixes it after. He's all greasy, so I believe that part. Here's where I am losing it, though.
When he's done with his (ALWAYS!) long-drawn-out explanation of every moment of fixing the van, (LIKE I GIVE A RAT'S A$$!) he then says, "I didn't win." I said, "Well, you don't want to hear what I have to say about the whole thing, so...."
He gets po'd and says, "then let's sell your cigarettes, since that's how I've been getting them." I very pointedly look up at him and ask why he's being snotty to me when he knows I'm having one of the hardest days I've had in weeks. He sighs THAT sigh, and says basically, "because you're being mean. I just told you all this that happened to me." At this point, I'm getting angry for real. "Oh, so knowing I'm having the worst day I've had in weeks, you feel it's ok to make a remark like that and I'm just supposed to say ok? But you can say mean things to me."
THAT sigh again. He explains that I'm being "back handed" with that comment of mine. (I thought it was pretty clear, actually, as it usually is when the casino is concerned.) And that we just shouldn't talk about it. He walks out.
About 10 minutes later, I am ready to go out there and say, "No, not leaving it at that! YOU make snarky, back handed comments online about men and women being friends, knowing how I feel about it! Especially AFTER you destroyed my trust! And now you want to talk about me making back handed comments? YOU? The king of self-serving, manipulative, cruelty? YOU? YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT MY COMMENT? LET'S DO IT! Let's TALK about who's the rotten partner in this marriage. Let's TALK about who did what when he shouldn't have. Let's TALK about who is STILL doing what he shouldn't. ALL WHILE PREACHING (LITERALLY!) AT ME FOR NOT BEING A BETTER CHRISTIAN! YEAH, A$$WIPE! LET'S TALK!!!"
So then he comes in here and starts separating the laundry that got dumped on the bed because he's done nothing with HIS STUFF for weeks, and the hamper was needed. Starts asking ME questions about HIS stuff. I give one word answers and won't look at him. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. Did he put HIS STUFF AWAY? NO. IT'S ON THE BED, BUT NOW IT'S IN A LOT OF PILES INSTEAD OF ONE.
Good God In Heaven! I am so frustrated with this daily bullshit! Oh, yeah, YOU'RE the poor guy who has to put up with ME being mean and rotten. I feel SO sorry for YOU! He's sitting out in the living room laughing like nothing happened.
I can not WAIT to get away from the self-induced drama of his narcissistic world! I'm going to go bat sh!t crazy!
Ok... I feel a little better now. Breathe. Do Not Poke The Bear. Do Not SHOOT The Bear. Ignore The Freaking Bear. There Is No Bear. Self talk lecture time. breathing in and out.....
Maybe it is the result of an abusive childhood. I'm not sure. But, once my trust was broken, once he had hurt me that incredibly BAD - I was finished. Done. Wipe my hands of the whole mess.
It is making him nuts though. Ever since Sunday when he tried for the false R and I wouldn't have anything to do with it, he has moped around like the injuried party. In those weeks before then, following the D-day, he was sh*tting a skittle rainbow of happiness while I was falling apart. I cried (alone) but it was obvious that I was devestated though I never said much to him besides figuring out how to divide things and whatnots. After 17, almost 18 years, yeah, he knew I was completely rocked to my very core by his betrayal and the insult to injury, that he was dancing around like Mr. Happy Pants.
I got stronger. I took steps to put MY life right and back together and to move on without him. None of it was kept a secret from him all those weeks. He knew I was looking at houses and he was just fine and dandy. Of course, then he goes away this last weekend. He comes back, rushing in like a bad version of a romance novel and wants to R. Really? (I posted the play by play some posts back so not going to repeat it again.) I never took the bait. Not once. Not even a smidgen.
So now, last night, a discussion about how we will file our taxes becomes him suddenly being the one that tried to fix our marriage and somehow now I am the one that is breaking us apart. Really? Wow. Talk about an NPD that is trying to squirm his considerable a** out of the consequences of what he has done.
Unfortunately for him, I don't care. In that first week, he damaged everything beyond recognition. He watched me fall apart with his smug smile that was so sure of his OW. He took every bit of trust I ever had in him (Which was no small amount, he's been my best friend since I was 17) and made a bonfire out of it. He can't hurt me anymore. I refuse to let him. His guilt, his shaming me, his tears - none of it affects me after what he's done.
The only thing I can't figure out is why. Is he suddenly trying to fix our marriage and I'm the resistant one so he can tell people he's the saint? Is it because I don't care and that's so damaging to his NPD ego that he's doing his damnedest to dig in one last time? Or is it just because the OW walked away and he's lost all source of Ego Kibble (LOL Frank!) so he's just desperate for a snack?
I wish I could figure that part out. Not that it would make it any different. But, then again, I'm learning that you can't figure out an NPD. Because their motives are so completely to the extreme of self-indulgenence that most normal people will not, and can not, ever understand that kind of thinking.
My WS is such an A$$. He is an NPD Olympic GOLD MEDAL WINNER of an A$$. He wants so much attention all the time, it's ridiculous. It actually makes me ill. Like yesterday before the two arguments. I was reading something, and he kept poking my arm so *I* could pay attention to what he was saying to my son. Nothing I give a crap about, just wanting that focus on him. Before he went outside, though, he was on FB trolling. He'll be back on there in just a couple minutes, too. He spends ALL day trolling in one place or another. I found an AFF history line on that laptop this morning.
I tell ya, it's gonna be hard living with this until I can get out. I can't just leave, though, like you are. Mine has the ability to become violent, and he's already been to prison. So I won't take the chance that he'll just let me go... He's adamant there will be NO divorce.
Oy, this could be a long, arduous journey to the light.
I'm so sorry to hear that you are trapped in the situation that you are in right now. I hope that you can check out places in your area for resources that might help you begin your journey to becoming better for yourself. My thoughts are with you... NPD hell isn't fun at all.
I am starting to bookmark places I may need to contact, and am looking for answers everywhere. I do NOT want to be his Kibble source for the rest of my life, which is what HE wants... until one of his little Fillipino Fillies decides to come on over or take him away, or AFF "comes" through, that is.
The thing that he did lately that hurt me the most? We were arguing about our relationship issues, (prior to me figuring out he's most likely NPD,) right before Christmas. We haven't had much sex because of my health issues, for about 3 years. When I brought up that he's ignored my advances for months, you know what he said to me?
"When you started that, I wondered, 'Now, what's she up to?' cuz you haven't wanted to in forever."
EXCUSE ME? WHAT I'M UP TO?? I was floored by that accusation. WTF? It's suspicious that I want to have a sex life again?
I said something along the lines of, "It's always been a strong connection for us, and I want it back. We're drifting apart."
He just stared at me for a few seconds, then looked away.
I was so stunned. This is a man with a SA's drive, who is turning sex down?
Then I flashed back to a previous conversation in bed: When I was giving all the signals, he said, "You neutered me by pushing me away so long."
No, actually, I think living on porn did that. I think looking to his "girls" on FB for attention did that. I think YOU are doing things I should be suspicious of!
What a nice guy, eh?
[This message edited by SoHurt at 6:29 PM, January 19th (Thursday)]
I'm a slow learner haha, but once I 'get it'? Oh baby, I own that shit!
That's why I say that one of the signs of truly detaching - actually it was more like a watershed moment for me -
...is when one of your biggest problems is not laughing out loud in their faces,
at the stupid, insane, and entirely predictable "ME-BS" comin outta their moufs!
Catching up, but LMAO @ Jpapa's
we are all trying to swim to shore and away from our specific sinking SS Narcissis with their dirty mirrors, caulk tubes and zebraduck bathroom accessories.
Frank said something so simple, it was in plain sight...that here on this thread, the realization we're dealing w/ N's is far more important than the piddly li'l old affair -
Heck, the A was the thing that unmasked their assholier-than-thou-ness,
and saved my ass from a lifetime of suffering.
Thank you Jesus!
My STBXWH was sexually abused as a young child which I think contributed to him compartmentalizing and his personality disorders. He's going to IC but is no longer sharing any of his progress since we are divorcing and I am working on NC.
So, I'm not sure what he's been diagnosed with, but I'm pretty sure he has both NPD and antisocial PD. He's extremely passive-aggressive and has been emotionally and verbally abusing me for years.
I am so happy that he didn't take me up on my offer to try to R and that he's moved on to his next victim.
I am working on healing myself.
He moves out of the house in about 2 weeks, and I have to wait until the end of May for the divorce to be final.
I'm just not sure what to expect. Since we have no kids, we should be pretty much NC after the D. He kept telling me he wanted to remain friends and to be there for me, but I always responded that friends don't treat each other the way he treated me and I want nothing to do with him when this is over.
Are there others of you who have divorced an NPD that don't have kids/a reason why you must stay in contact after the D is final?
What should I expect? Since he's moved on to another victim, will he leave me alone? My friends think he's going to show up on my doorstep in a few years when MOW gets sick of him and beg me back since he can't live on his own and is such a mess. I don't want to have anything to do with him, so I'm hoping he'll just leave me alone and find his N supply elsewhere.
Married: 11 years, no kids
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. -Michelangelo