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User Topic: N P D Thread part 9
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, November 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He doesn't get it, really, he thinks the terms of the restraining order set when I filed means go ahead and do whatever you want jerk. My attorney needs to get her boots out and stomp his tiny insignificant butt into the ground. He just wont stop doing stuff to our money. Im not mad, I just have this small annoyance that I need to deal with. Just one more piece ofncrap. I knew he was being quiet for a reason, now I know why. Do they not realize that this affects the kids, oh wait, that's right, the jerk had an affair, why does he think rules apply to his NPD arse.

Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
Frank2010
♂ Member
Member # 29438
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, November 18th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wontdefineme,

What predictably unpredictable thing is he up to now? You realize he is just trying everything he can to manipulate the situation. If you let him know it annoys you he will keep doing it. Just laugh at him and tell him how funny he is. Don't talk to him but get the word out through friends or facebook or whatever is available where he can get the info second hand. Tell everyone how much he just cracks you up when he does this shit.....NPD = Public Image. When he start to think people and you only see him as a comical fool, he will suddenly become...."mature". KWIM???


Me 56 BS
Her 59 WS NPD(She is Empty)
D-day#1 05-01-10
Dday#2 06-04-10 previous ONS 9-24-09 AFF hookups

Status: S & D'ing


Posts: 1195 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: North Texas
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Tribe,

I've come to share a NPD No Contact story. It is that wonderful time of year - Holiday Custody.

First a brief explanation of history. In our D decree T-day was ill stated. At the time, it made perfect sense because T-day was Grandma's (his mother) Holiday. If I had known then what I know now I would have added about 6-7 more lines of legalese to the paragraph.

Also since the original decree there have been changes (see profile). To make it worse, NPD Ex never showed up on NYD for his visitation - yep, no call, no show and seems to absolutely not know that detail. The kids and I have never mentioned it (except to lawyer but it didn't actually come out in the court proceedings over the summer that I know of - course I wasn't actually there so who knows).

So...last weekend was his visitation with little one (who is now 14). When she returned home with no clear information regarding tomorrow. I waited one more day then went shopping last night.

Low and behold today at 3:15pm (mind you I'm at work) my cell phone rings. I let it go to voicemail and get this message.

Herrlo (yes literally which immediately makes me suspicious). Just wondering what time would be good for you for me to pick little one up tomorrow. Give me a call back. Thank you.

Now mind you - our agreed upon method of contact, email, was discarded by him back in the Spring.

So I call Little One. Now just last night, mind you, I went shopping for the food. When I got home her first question was "Has Dad called you?". I'm the one that had to deal with the brokenhearted look that crossed her face when I said no. Expecting this I made a quick recovery showing her the shrimp I bought for when I teach her how to play Scrabble on Thursday (this is important because I've never let her join in when me and her aunt are playing.)

So, I tell Little One via phone (I HATE that but I was at WORK) - your Dad just called. I will tell you right now that I find it completely disrespectful to call on such short notice, but if you want to see him, I will make the arrangements. Little One says "No, you already bought all the food, and we have plans now".

So I send a text (I hate texting).

I am sorry since I had not heard from you we made plans for the day.

Now this response should have come as no surprise as last year there was a very long discussion about how now that Grandma has past away - NOTICE IS NECESSARY. My job is a 24/7 and pulling a holiday shift is a big deal planned weeks ahead of time.

So I get in reply this lovely tidbit:

"The parties will share Thanksgiving and will work out the times between themselves" What time can I pick little one up?

Yeah the quote is the actual wording from the decree - you can see where I screwed up royally on that one. But, funny how he can locate that piece of wording but the piece regarding how he was supposed to pick them up NYD and pulled a no call, no show? or the piece about 50% reimbursement of expenses - he has never brought those up.

So I patiently send a reply:

It is unreasonable to expect us to cancel our plans the evening before the holiday.

And then proceed to do the most logical next course of action. I SHUT MY PHONE OFF. Yep, I was at work and not continuing the conversation til it no longer interfered with my employment as I did not consider this an emergency.

When I got off work and turned the phone back on, I found the following text messages.

I'm not doin this to mess up your plans. I assumed you would respect the separation agreement.

What does Little One want to do?

Please respond or I will ask Little One myself.

Do what ever you want. I'm not going to bring Little One into this. I will wish her and DS Happy Thanksgiving in the morning knowing that their mother did not respect a legal contract.

So it looks like with NC I won by default.

Of course, I will punish myself severely (over turkey and stuffing) for not respecting a legal contract with someone who didn't respect their vows or feels it better that I agree and teach Little One to be at the beck and call, or an afterthought, for every male in her life. (Remember that quote "Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option.Ē from Mark Twain? I really like that quote!)

My suspicion is that OW now GF was either fighting with him, was going to her family's (who hate him), or something of the sort. Well, my daughter is not a fallback plan for anyone!

Wishing everyone a wonderful day tomorrow. Stay Strong, Say No, and keep NC. Many positive thoughts.

Downy


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
ItsRocky
♀ Member
Member # 30327
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

downfall, if the agreement says the parties will work out the times between themselves - what does it say happens if you can't work it out? Do you have the tie breaker?

And here is a smidge of a thought - if Little One is interested in seeing her dad maybe he could take her out for pie from 6 to 7pm or sometime after your holiday dinner?


Thanks for all the support in my healing, outlived my usefulness on SI, time to move on.

Posts: 1460 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: SouthEast
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, November 23rd (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Rocky,

That's the problem with the wording - no amount of notice statement or tiebreaker statement. I truly should have known better, but at the time, Grandma was the one I was actually working the times out with - not him.

If Little One had expressed an interest, I would have made contact after work and sorted out something. That is exactly the reason I gave in last year on short notice. She is old enough to state her desires and for me to respect them. But after years of setting this type of example, even kids figure it out.

Downy


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well HEY DOWNY!!!!!!!!!!!!
<<<<<<<<WAVES BIG WAVES

Just cause he discarded the agreed-upon method of contact (email) - doesn't mean you have to.
teehee

The 'brinksmanship' game of manipulating legal agreements via dramatic, 'last minute' arrangements,
which (necessary to the N's desire to control-others-at-all-times) include ignoring *cough* basic planning, basic courtesy, your needs, little one's needs, AND ignoring previous 'agreements'
("What? We never lie lie lie lie lie")

is NOT a game any of us has to play.
I predict more 'default wins' in your future my friend! :)

YOU
are wonderful, thoughtful, and MIGHTY ENCOURAGING. Love ya downy!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
(((TRIBE)))


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The 'brinksmanship' game of manipulating legal agreements via dramatic, 'last minute' arrangements,
which (necessary to the N's desire to control-others-at-all-times) include ignoring *cough* basic planning, basic courtesy, your needs, little one's needs, AND ignoring previous 'agreements'

I got this one going on in spades today. Lift me up today, Tribe. I am feeling beat up.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((cg))) (((downy))) Holding you both up today.

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 11:15 AM, November 24th (Thursday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((cg)))
Ugh.
These effers never change.

Predictably, the holiday season provides additional opportunity for N-games.

(((For those with kiddos)))
Best thing I know to do is BOND with THEM. Let the kids be the conduits for information re: times, location, etc. Nothing's wrong with them calling you to tell you where they're at.

They get it, and can be the conduits for logistical information.

- teaches responsibility
- bypasses N

win win

And if they don't at first give you the heads-up...there's a good lesson there for them that you could impress any number of creative ways.
This is wrinkled a bit, needs tweaking, age-adjusting, etc, just putting it out there as an initial idea...

Say, you're due home to cook dinner for them. Go out to eat. Don't answer/give vague answers/assure them of the fact you're safe and ok...
When you get home, it's a; "See how it feels to be out of the loop?" lesson.

The point is, contact with Nclowns can be kept to absolute minimum. Brief email 'there it is' and boom - nothing else.
We know this.

Any contact, even negative "you screwed up" stuff is supply kibbles.

It figures cg would post *just now*
IT'S A WONDERFUL DAY!!

Remember the 'tough to post in jfo' thread awhile back? (forget which forum)
...and I told the story of the poster that said; "That was brave of you to post in jfo, jj." - and how it made me feel? (Uplifted, just overall "better")
Turns out dear cg,
that kind, uplifting one is downy.
I'm like, havin a party in my head lol

Also...for (((cg)))(((TRIBE)))
we gots flowers!

Yup.
'narcissus'
and THAT figures too!



Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks for the flowers, jj. And a party in your head is a party worth attending!

We are here for each other and like the supports that lean on one another to stay upright? yeah, there's a term... anyway, that's us.

I am finding the calm place to wait. It helps to know the fears in my head can be drowned out by the party music in jj's head. Thanks for the hugs, the stories, the pm's, the prayers, the comradeship.

I have no words for the isolation created by the unfathomable horror. NOT having to describe or justify or explain it even to one or two fellow travelers... ya'll know. I am sooooo glad to not be alone.

one minute at a time today. until the minutes are hours and the day is done.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
fallenangel02
♀ Member
Member # 15044
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, November 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

soverybetrayed:

i know how u feel. no matter what kind of low life they are...u think that they will have bit of sympathy...that they will be there for you when u really need them. and then it hits you...u lose believe in humanity all together...i am so sorry that he is being so ignorant of you at this time.

i know i had a breast lump removed..it was not cancerous...but WH emailed his frends saying that it was cancer and what not to get sympathy for HIMSELF. while i was in surgery..he was on his laptop in the waiting room. i had gone inside the pre op area..crying...cuz i felt so alone..that he didnt care...a bit...that I am the mother of his child...i live with him..we are more than just strangers...and how can he be so cold...he just did not give a damn..i lived or died...made no difference.

i recently had a baby( on a IUD, go figure) i had stitches ...i was in so much pain..but he bitc*ed day and night about how the house was dirty ...ALL DAY. I got so sick of hearing it..i got up the next day and started cleaning.

guess what..my stitches came loose..i bled more...later i found out..i never stopped bleeding after labor...my uterus is filled with clots..i may need a D & C ...my dr. first gave me meds to help control the bleeding..next day at home..he was still making me work around the house..i was soo deeply hurt...that he couldnt let me rest...for couple of days...if it was his mom or sister would he behave the same way?

i was talking to my family...and again he started i am saying all wrong things to my family. !!!???
what? now r u gonna tel me how to talk my family? mind your own business.
so i have stopped taking all call from anyone inf ront of him..cuz he listens..then bitches...that u said this to ur frend and what not..

today i am hurting..cuz i am healing all wrong down there wtih loose stitches and what not..it hurts when i move..walk ...sit...i am doing as much as i can of the hosuework...but he is still houes is dirty...how i am not taking good care of baby...how i am teh enemy of my 5 yr. old son..? i dont give him good food..id ont do anythign for him...

its killing me...!!!! and i am thinking why do i even care for my 5 year old..why do i even bother..to keep him safe from his food allergies...when at the end..i am his enemy...i am stopping him from being healthy. let him eat whatever he wants...i am soo FED UP !!!!!!

seriousy..all morning i have been listening...to what a bitch i am...how i dont do anythign right..and he is talking allt his to my 5 year old..ur mom is this..ur mom doesnt do this..your mom doesnt knwo this...and my 5 yr old is like yes yes yes...

ALL MORNING and afternoon i have been putting up with this !!!!!!
i can nto go out..cuz i am nursing the new born who is only 2 weeks...and i am not well..

i hate him..i hope he dies.


BS: 26 - me
WH: 31
Dday 1: dec. 27, 2006
dday 2:june 14th 2007

Posts: 268 | Registered: Jun 2007
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, November 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awww JJ now I'm all

Ya know I love you too!

The point is, contact with Nclowns can be kept to absolute minimum. Brief email 'there it is' and boom - nothing else.
We know this.

Any contact, even negative "you screwed up" stuff is supply kibbles.

Amen, dear friend, Amen.

NPDEX's idea of contacting the children for t-day consisted of a text message. This has become the norm lately. It seems neither child responded. (expected from DS but I guess Little One got caught up in the day's activities and just didn't get around to it).

So Friday morning, while at work (our busiest day of the year). I get this overly concerned text that he has been trying to reach Little One and is concerned about her safety?

I replied with the obvious fact: "She is sleeping"

Nothing more.

Ahhh but the ways of teens, who in and of themselves tend to be a bit N at this stage of the game. Little One went ballistic (once she finally got her pretty little butt out of bed) at his "fatherly concern". She vented all evening, no calming her, about his questioning of her safety while she was "home" with her "family". Oh my, wrong side of that coin he landed on.

Also on jj's comment about teaching children. I've always believed they learn quicker and easier by reversing the situation. I had a bit of trouble with DS not calling to tell me where he was. When I didn't come home as expected one evening, he called my cell very upset. The only reply he got was "sucks huh?" He is very good at calling me now.

Love the flowers jj. Glad everything turned out ok cg. ((hugs wounded)).

fallenangel, I hope you are making plan to get out of this abusive relationship. There is a lot of help available out there. Please take care yourself - sending many positive thoughts.

Downy

[This message edited by downfall at 9:10 PM, November 26th (Saturday)]


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, November 26th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fallenangel,

I'm so sorry for the pain and lonliness....what he is doing to you is abusive. And absolutely cruel.

Do you have anyone that can come help you at all, or can you take your 5 year old and baby and go visit someone who will help care for you all and allow you some rest?

He should not be saying those things to your 5 year old either, of course a little one doesn't know what else to say or do and is also probably feeling left out with the new baby, that's horribly cruel. Try not to let yourself go with those thoughts about your 5 year old, the NPD is manipulating you both.

Much love and prayers for help and rest for you, please please consider getting someone to help somehow. Don't let the NPD's resistance to the outside world peeking in stop you - you have a right to health, safety, sanity and you alone are responsible for your children (because he obviously isn't capable). You need to take care of you so that you can take care of them.

Let us know how you're doing. We care.

edited to add: can you call your ob/gyn office and ask for some advice? Be honest about what's happening and they may send a visiting nurse

[This message edited by rainagain at 9:10 PM, November 26th (Saturday)]


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, November 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rain has very good advice. I would call the obgyn, or the hospital where you delivered, or a lactation service, or the baby's pediatrician- anyone who might do a home visit and could offer help or services.

((((fallenangel))))


On a whole 'nother topic: I have read threads that call into question the use of the NPD term and how often it is "thrown around" on the threads. The idea is that every asshole is not an NPD asshole. I agree with this concept in its facts. And there are certainly a lot of cheaters that are assholes, just asshole cheaters. And that garden variety of asshole is plenty awful enough!

My concern is that to doubt the NPD classification to anyone who IS in fact dealing with an NPD is quite damaging. The NPD has already called into question the sanity of its victim. The NPD has crafted the illusion of anything other than sick psycho disordered freak. If someone has read, researched and fears they are dealing with a NPD FT, then I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt!! NO ONE would choose or want that lack of remorse, selfish, self centered, game playing, unpredictable, dangerous punishment at the hands of a spouse, parent or even boss or sibling.

The statistics are that 1% of the general population is certifiably NPD. I would guess this is low. How many true NPDs go for treatment and diagnosis? Most NPD is diagnosed by those who begin to heal from the treatment at the hands of one, or through IC who are treating the victim of one. But let's go with the 1% for the sake of argument.

Out of 34000 members, then 340 members would be 1%. But this is not the general population. So let's double the membership. This would catch the cheaters NOT here in the Wayward forum and who are the declared NPDs by the BS who are posting. So then 1% would be over 600. And how likely is it that the population of people dealing with betrayal and infidelity is far higher than the general population? So I would argue that 600 members healing from the treatment of an NPD is a conservative estimate.

It is statistics I guess. And statistics can be used to prove or disprove anything in the hands of a masterful number cruncher.

My point is, don't let what someone else says or doubts about what you've been through or feel trivialize or undermine your healing. We fear what we don't understand. And there are plenty of people who don't understand the NPD.

If 1% is NPD, then the victims of NPD are only slightly higher in percentage. Lucky us.

But it is lucky us, because we have each other for affirmation and support. And this forum allowed us to find one another, support one another, and to heal in the very safe place that is the TRIBE.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, November 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are a few that caution about jumping to NPD for a reason - and I can understand why. In those early days everyone is so desperate for "WHY?" that every stone, story, diagnosis gets unturned.

If it hadn't been for another SI member pointing out some huge red flags, I would have stayed a victim for much longer than I did. When that member did make reference to NPD, I was INSULTED. There was nothing wrong with MY husband (read immediate denial of my own inability to face the truth).

Every NPD site, statistic, book, article, etc. will tell you that infidelity is one of the most common traits of a N. So how does that affect the statistical norm of how many BSs will end up here because of a N versus all the other one night stands, mid-life crises, etc.?

And how do you tell the difference? "A degrading value judgment." Was the affair more just an affair? Was it (and the other affairs and/or the porn) used as a weapon?

Several good links:

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/08/malignant-narcissist-and-serial.html

http://www.datingatmidlife.com/David%20Buss%20article.htm

Infidelity as a Weapon

What does a narcissist do when a woman becomes her own authority? He cuts her down to size. He has numerous tools at his disposal but the most efficient of all is replacing her with another person. No matter how valuable she felt her 'role' to be, he lets her know that itís no big deal to find another woman eager to fill her shoes. If the narcissist is especially sadistic, he'll choose a woman who will never measure up to his wifeís competence---a woman who will never threaten his superior status as a maN. In other words: The narcissist trades down, not up. He punishes his wife for being whole.

Thatís a brutal thing to say, I know. But when we talking about infidelity and narcissists, we not talking about sex with a human being---weíre talking about the subjugation of an object. Weíre talking about exploiting women so the narcissist can prove his manliness to other men.

If his wife was criticized for wearing the pants in the family, he'll shame her for his perceived humiliation. A narcissist will find a way, even if itís self-destructive, to put an uppity woman in her place. Why? Because a narcissist interprets a partnerís equality as a devious attempt to steal the throne from beneath his royal ass.

I think we miss a crucial truth behind a narcissistís intentional infidelity. Most people make the faulty assumption that infidelity is all about sex. Itís not. When attempts to control the object-of-his-affection fail, he forces compliance by putting her family at risk. He knows she will subjugate herself when the life she has constructed is threatened; she'll weaken immediately when self-trust in her own perceptions is crushed by his betrayal. Sheíll be stunned, if not broken, which satisfies his sadism no matter what his tears lead others to assume.

If his wife dared to be his equal, if she received admiration he felt was his, he will punish her. Maybe heís not as obvious as the batterer leaving bruises, but he'll batter her in ways that are socially acceptable.

People cannot fathom the hatred seething beneath the narcissistís unconscious envy. Rarely do people define infidelity as abuse for surely a husband could never envy nor disrespect the mother of his children! Itís strange to even think a man would detest his partnerís competence! The narcissist is no fool though; he has studied peopleís reactions and knows his intentional infidelity is socially permissible. In fact, ten bucks says the narcissist predicts (and quite accurately, too) that his wife will bear the brunt of social query. If she was too articulate for some peopleís tastes, he knows heíll get away with attacking her self-worth. If she was too confident, too smart, too self-directed, too intimate, or dared to see herself as his equal, sheíll unwittingly pay a price---a price to be exacted not only by the narcissist, but also by society.

Narcissists have affairs when they cannot mature a relationship into a shared partnership. Assuming a woman to be equal to their superior birthright is a demotion in status, at least in the narcissistís distorted perceptions. Narcissists donít share anything. Every relationship in life is based on a superior-inferior, win-lose construction.

If his wife is too Ďfullí of herself, heíll humiliate her and cut her back to size. Heíll discredit her. Call her a nag, a shrew, a woman who talked too much. Degrade her worth by reinforcing her sole purpose in life: serving men. Whether her service means saving face in public, or using her mouth to save his ego in private. from: http://n-continuum.blogspot.com/2008/08/intentional-infidelity.html

http://samvak.tripod.com/faq29.html

http://www.chameleongroup.org.uk/npd/sex.html

Many positive thoughts.

Downy

ETA: I used to have another article on how it wasn't as important to label the N was it was to recognize yourself as the victim. I'll see if I can locate that one again.

[This message edited by downfall at 7:17 PM, November 27th (Sunday)]


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, November 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.chameleongroup.org.uk/npd/first_step.html

Important part:

There is much one can read about the symptoms of NPD and yet exactly this can be more than confusing, and you might find yourself going through a checklist of symptoms in order to arrive at some conclusion. However, the list above should give you some idea. Still, there is another element which is just as important and this quite possibly the most important item for you to look at:


Look at yourself and ask yourself how you feel and whether you are the person you once were and knew. If you live with a narcissist, you will develop a cluster of negative feelings centered around the emotion of fear and an image of inadequacy. This self image of being inadequate then will be due to a change in self perception. This is, it is a cognitive concept that you are not familiar with and which is in contrast to how you used to see yourself. Clearly, such a negative self image will have serious effects on the way you feel and behave. The dominant feeling is, as alluded to, fear. Fear of doing things wrong and fear of being punished. And thus, the way you behave too will become modified whereby you will watch your every move and where your actions become unnatural to yourself.

The issue is - in a sense - more complicated. Because, all of us have negative feelings and concepts about ourselves even if we never encountered a narcissist. So in this sense, what the narcissist does is to build on the already existing negative self images and enlarge them to a maximum. The situation is even worse because we are aware of short comings in ourselves. This is where the narcissist is most successful. The narcissist will endeavour to increase these short comings. I may give a personal example: once, I gave up smoking, the narcissist exercised so much pressure on me until I started again (I still smoke sometimes). The narcissist would really like to see you in the gutter.

However, if you see that you have substantially changed for the worse you can be sure that you are living with a narcissist, and a check list is not necessary any longer.

Probably the most important lesson I can relay is to read, read and read more. Never stop reading. Things will get better and life will go back to "normal". Your mind will want to think in normal ways...go back and read more!

There is almost always a reason why you ended up with a N. Most likely one of your parents is or was a N or a similar personality disorder. Recognizing and dealing with the FOO issue will give you the personal power you need to become whole (and avoid future Ns).

This site has some good worksheets at the bottom especially if you have children with a N. http://www.angriesout.com/grown17.htm

[This message edited by downfall at 7:02 PM, November 27th (Sunday)]


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, November 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's why I post about the "4 pillars" of R...alot.
The first and most important one to me is Remorse. Now, I've read where some WS's 'get it' later...and 'learn' remorse...I still don't understand that, but that may be just my local focus hocus pocus.

At the very least, it keeps me from pulling the trigger on "leave the bich/bastard!" posts, but boyo cg! I get that it's not ok to make diagnoses on the boards...but...really? I think there's a statistical majority of posters here who are dealing with Nclowns. Meaning:
if the victims of infidelity congregate in one place (here at SI)...ahhh...let me put it this way. How many times have you held back from saying run the fuck far away from newly hurting ones in jfo??

For most of them, I just want to hug them and give them leads to the biggest ballbuster attorney in their area. The stories of abuse piss me off that bad.

Regarding remorse,

I think I'd be some destroyed soul, not being able to hide the look on my face, doing anything I could to repair, etc., if I were a WS...
We've read the stories.
Lying, artful creative, and ultimately pathetic lying. Abuse.

fallenangel, please get out of that abuse. Please.

downy,
thanks for the links. I liked this one especially, and have pulled some quotes from it:

http://www.angriesout.com/grown17.htm

A false self develops along with a fragile self esteemÖdefining identity as feeling good when being given to or giving to others.


An inflated self-esteem is a defense to cover up their sense of shame deep within.


These people are the takers of the world leaving pain and destruction in their wake. If their behavior is left unchecked, they become con artists, manipulators, sociopaths and dictators.


The two greatest fears we humans have in relationships are fears of engulfment (smothering, being controlled by someone else) and fears of rejection and abandonment. And to spice up the human drama, our greatest longings are the needs for connection and the opposite need for space and individuality. This is the great Cosmic joke!

Without someone to put the brakes on their unhealthy and abusive behavior, they can become tyrants.

They can verbally abuse and punish their spouses and children without seeing the pain that they cause as they believe that the person deserves they abuse they dish out. They may try to enlist a child to side with them and turn against the other parent.

(((TRIBE)))
I love you guys. dam.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
ItsRocky
♀ Member
Member # 30327
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, November 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Page 22 of the NPD Thread part 9 - could be the most healing page on the whole wide web!

Thank you tribe! Especially the postings & links from jjct!


Thanks for all the support in my healing, outlived my usefulness on SI, time to move on.

Posts: 1460 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: SouthEast
toughgirl8
♀ Member
Member # 29812
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, November 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((everyone)))
Downy- what u posted had me in tears. This is why I see my FWH as NPD not because of the A. Reading up here and talking to IC has led me to my diagnosis of my H.

Case in point: at friends kids birthday party, a friend of my friend -someone I didn't know identified me as "super mom" as nicknamed by my friend due to my toddler twins. In front of my friends my H says (under his breath but loudly enough) "now if we could just get her to be a super wife..." ha ha ha. F'in hysterical. But it's "only a joke" just like every other nasty comment. I have no sense of humor. Apparently never have.

13 years of this. The A was secondary. With my 180 came blatant emotional abuse. He had lost control and was desperate to get it back.

And the part about fear... OMG... I live in fear of his criticism over Everything. It's never enough. I'm never enough. Successful career woman with 4 kids good family and lots of friends. But I'm not good enough in so many ways.

He puts me down and keeps me there ever so subtlely. Little covert manipulations I shouldn't notice. Oh but I do. I feel it every time. What should be my safe comfy home is a friggin war zone and I have to be on the defensive and be ready to avoid the shitstorm at all times. I'm so tired.

You're all reminding me of why I keep coming back here and can't move on. It's not just the A and lies I can't get past. Even in peace times I'm not truly at peace. This N is the father of my kids and I had such a torturous summer I compromised again to keep some level of peace. I'm still here. For a little peace and my kids.

(((all))) and many thanks for reminding me I'm not crazy.


Me-37
WH-41
M-12 yrs
D Day-3/2010
4 kiddoes
Some may say I have a short temper, I say I have a swift and assertive reaction to bull sh't. ;)

Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2010
nutmegkitty
♀ Member
Member # 33882
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, November 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Downfall, your first quoted part is so spot on with my WS it is scary. I nodded my head throughout the whole thing.

Wow.


me (BS)
him (NPD Ex)
2 dds
DDay 10/7/11
OW
OC

Divorced 1/17/2013

"Diamonds aren't a girl's best friend, freedom is."


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