Lostsuol - good to hear from you again. I was the one who said something about Tryn's decision to trust felt forced to an extent. I don't know if that was the best choice of words as it sounds derogatory, which is not the way I meant it, but it just seems like he has just made up his mind to be 100% committed to R, includinng the forgiveness & trust. Which I think is amazing, mostly because there is no way Icould make that leap of faith like that. But, then again, he's successfully reconciled. So, I'm certainly not knocking the approach, but I do think it's normal to have moment of doubt sneak back in.
NJGal: I did tell 2 of his sisters today, they told a 3rd & I imagine told his brother by now. I told him it's up to him to tell his mother before someone else does, but it won't be me. He can explain to his mom why she's hearing it from someone else.
You know, no one asked me why, but I just told them we weren't getting along, etc. had tried to work it out & it wasn't working. X gets the benefit of my desire to protect my kids on this one. It's very important to me that they never feel like they have to choose sides. I don't want his family "choosing sides". So, the kids don't need to know about his infidelity anymore than they need to know why my x was unhappy with me. It's a 2 way street, tho clearly his faults are far more egregious than mine.
I'm not on a search & rescue mission here. I'm not trying to fix my x or make him pull his head out of his ass. I'm moving on. He's hopeless.
ALright. Got to go.
ats, to answer your question:
Nell, wondering what insights you got at IC?
It would be easier to be in love with my husband, to get my needs met by my husband. But so far, it's not happening. I have been judging myself on the failures of this relationship, even when I think I'm not. I've forgotten everything I've done, everything I've provided so that WH could help save us. But he has done only what feels nice at the moment.
Anyway, gotta run.
Ats: confusing feelings aren't they??
What are you feeling now? Waiting to see where it goes now?
Allgood: He seems to really like pushing those buttons. It seems we after so many years we are hard wired in....so hard to disconnect
them. I like NJs advice (as always) about outing him to his family.
Tryn: Trust your gut. No harm ..no foul.
NJ: Hope you are enjoying your vacation.
Laura: What the??? What was up her behind...possible FOW friend?
hard for me to keep up...I am reading and trying to keep current so I am not being purposely forgetful of anyone....my natural shyness along with not wanting to just push and shove my way in the forum makes for a quiet BP... I do want to say thank you to you all, being here is just so ...good for me.
I told him it's up to him to tell his mother before someone else does, but it won't be me.
. . . to get my needs met by my husband. But so far, it's not happening. I have been judging myself on the failures of this relationship
My W has made bad choices in life too. So far, her record is killing an unborn child and cheating on her husband, twice.
I see y'all doing a lot of "if only's" don't beat yourselves up so much. When you know better, you'll do better.
Having said that, I do that to myself all the time too, LOL.
Well, I'm very busy because nanny has betrayed me as well. So shocking that the nanny my WH poached from his mistress has betrayed me. Ah, my soap-opera life.
I'm a little bummed though. You could just quit, you know? Instead there was drama, which is not quite over yet. (she stole a bunch of stuff while we were on vacation, showed up high to quit, turns out according to The Pharaoh she's been sleeping on the couch while I'm upstairs working, etc.)
I was pretty sure food was disappearing, so I started going to the grocery store every day instead of buying in bulk, then I started setting other limits with her such as...[insert any reasonable limit you can imagine here] and then I think the kicker was when I said I needed her phone back because now that she's married her husband should be paying for her phone. Next thing you know, within hours she's wasted and texting me to pick a fight, blow off work the next day etc. You know what I did? I told her that I was sad she didn't enjoy taking care of the kids anymore but I understood and then I ignored her, changed the locks and went away for the weekend. When I came back, she didn't even bother to text that she wasn't coming to work on Monday but finally showed up around dinnertime completely high to tell me she was quitting but she could still come until I figure out what I'm going to do. I said no thanks. Jeesh.
But I'll tell you one thing -- it's a good thing I changed those locks, because when she showed up Monday night, she didn't even try her key...she rang the doorbell. So, she'd been here trying to get in over the weekend I'm sure.
I mean, I do have 4 glasses left. And one serving bowl. And 3 dishtowels... no cleaning products, or first aid stuff, or batteries, or tupperware or water bottles ... I do still have some stained bibs and torn towels, sigh. I don't even know what I don't have.
Anyway, that was 10 days ago and I haven't ever been happier! I have my house to myself for the first time in over 4 years. This is awesome. I'm guessing this means my codependency work is working? Anyway, I'm full-force like 18 hours a day to do my job and take care of these kiddos. I have no plan for what's next. I know I don't want a nanny (snort) so I guess I'd better start looking at daycares.
The kids, by the way, are in hog heaven after just one week. I'm glad they like me so much. After interviewing The Pharaoh a bit, it turns out nanny was doing a crap job anyway. Sunshine, in particular, is like a different kid in only good ways.
But, I still have to deal with the "you stole a whole bunch of our stuff and I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to just call the cops or let you bring it back. " bullshit.
So, let's see:
WH betrayed me
OW, who I met because of WH betrayed me
Nanny, who I met because of OW betrayed me
Fruit of the poisonous tree?
Ah, my friends, I have been reading sporadically and I hope you are well. Laura, happy birthday, belated. ATS -- you sound very calm and peaceful.
Tryn - dunno about the VAR. I feel ya though.
I am pleased and relieved to have nanny gone, sad that she was not a friend like I thought she was, but I do repeat tryn's "people are not loving or loyal all the time" and I remind myself that she was the freakin' nanny. Still, I have this heavy feeling of impending doom weighting me down. I'm especially intrigued that WH doesn't want to do anything about all the stuff she took.
it's a good thing I changed those locks, because when she showed up Monday night, she didn't even try her key...she rang the doorbell. So, she'd been here trying to get in over the weekend I'm sure.
Overall, I say that my choices
- Be desirable
- Communicate safely when my W is not being desirable
Those have all made me feel much better. I am not sad or hurt very often. Do I have daily thoughts about infidelity? Yes. The thoughts are when I post here. When I post here, I have no real hurt type feelings; Just thoughts. Don’t get me wrong, I can feel some people’s pain too at times. I have betrayal thoughts when something reminds me too. Those hurt feelings do still come. I think the last time I had a bad hurt was maybe last month? It lasted maybe 5 minutes. What is amazing is that it always is about sex. It is about her not being sexy to me, not wanting me sexually, not ever initiating sex to me, that kind of stuff.
I try to appeal to my own common senses and I do composed myself and started living for today again like I always have. I realize that it’s Rhett that carries Scarlett down the stairs. I know for me to expect my wife to pick up the new wave woman’s movement to ”initiate” is probably ridiculous. But Damn, once a month would be good. Maybe I miss the flirting signals, heck I don’t know. She always says she just doesn’t have those feelings or some sort of other excuse. She has tried a time or two but only a day or so when I communicate what I want to her. It never really comes from her soul. It would be nice to have that in my life. But when I do something special, it is always very good and good feelings abound.
FNF… My W cheated on me sometime in 1988. I never caught her and she was going to take that secret to the grave until she confessed to me shortly after my dday in 2008. Her excuse was youthful mistake. You might be right about my need to verify because I am so aware of her history. I am not naive to know that some people cannot be moral.
Actually, this is something I planned on doing now for over a year. The plan was to allow my wife to get comfortable again and at my 3 year dday. iwant always says trust must be earned. I have given my W trust for the past 2 years. I don’t check anything. I have looked at telephone records but that will never be the way I will know. Well, she is about to earn some more trust. I am going to track her car movements for a month or so. I am going to listen to her discussions in her car. She knows about GPS tracking and she is very intelligent. She might never take a chance with parking at a hotel, but she can slip if he is picking her up somewhere not making sense. They may only meet once a month or whatever. I think I can put 2 and 2 together with those 2 machines. If any of those look the slight bit suspicious, I will hire a PI. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts on my acting.
My best friend says, “it’s like you want to catch her”. Maybe he is right. Despite my mostly having great feelings and enjoying my life, I do have fantasies about being single again, dating, being on my own with my kids, those kinds of thoughts. These are nothing new and had them since dday. They are only thoughts and not actions in any way.
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:40 AM, August 22nd (Monday)]
I hope everything checks out fine and you can reach a new level of comfort in your marriage.
M3: That's just shocking about the nanny. Damn! So, what do you make of your wh's reaction?
So, 5 of my x's siblings know about the split. I am close with 1 of his sisters so she's kept me up to date as to what the buzz is. Mixed reviews: 1 made no comment as to fault, 1 assumed it was my x, 1 assumed it was me & 1 said it's both of us. The sil that knows the whole deal about the A, etc is doing a great job of redirecting thosse that seemed to think I didn't want the M anymore without telling them anything about the A. My concerns that these adults would not be able to keep the truth away from the kids was validated as I learned that my 1 sil had already made some snide eemarks to my 14yo nephew about why I wasn't at every family function anymore ,etc. so that was an intentional sharing of information, never mind the unintentional damage that would be done when their gossiping after a few drinks, lol.
So, I'm feeling relieved. A few more siblings need to be told, but this was the main "core" of people that I had regular contact with. How and when his mother finds out, well, that's all that's left to do.
He had to pick up 1 of my kids from his sister's yesterday. He didn't say anything to me, but he seemed sad when he returned. I'm assuming they discussed the break up.
All I got.
"you stole a whole bunch of our stuff and I'm trying to decide whether I'm going to just call the cops or let you bring it back. " bullshit.
Of course there is the option to call the police and the consequences are less severe if stuff is brought back. I might be inclined to see how good my homeowner's insurance is after an event like this.
Tryn, for me it was never about catching my W, it was about hoping she would prove me wrong. I think this is why I was always so devastated when I found more. I had hoped to find nothing, or that she could explain it away (like she did in 2007).
I'm being way too hard (she used the term judgemental) on myself.
I have been loathe to say anything to WH because I don't think he can handle it without help, and he isn't getting help. So I'll bring him to help and then see what happens next.
I believe that this is true. If our WS has issues in perception or coping mechanisms then MC is not particularly helpful until the WS is at least aware of these issues, and hopefully had some progress correcting them. This has been shown to me again with FWW’s and my return to MC over the last few months. When we got to the real core issues, she was not able to step-up to be an equal partner in the M. Her shame, compartmentalizing, magical thinking and hoping everything would be OK, insecurity prevents her from engaging as an equal. She either shuts down, or becomes very defensive throwing out all the accusations towards me. The big one is how awful I was as a stepfather to her girls, and that I use her affairs to keep from talking about that. The facts are I am willing to talk with her about how disappointed she was with our M early on. I offer often, but she does not really want to talk about it because then she will have to face her mistakes as well as mine. In a similar vein, we cannot address issues like the lack of sex, until she is able to not feel guilt and shame about not wanting to have sex with me.
allgood, I am glad that you are getting the word out. The more perception matches reality, the easier I think life will be for all.
BP, from me, you are welcome to just lurk and comment as you are comfortable.
I am not naive to know that some people cannot be moral.
ATS - glad to see that you and your W had a bonding session this weekend. I hated to see you so discouraged. I know your W has a long way to go but it seems so evident from your posts that you are not willing to give up on her or your M. This special time with her hopefully gave you the encouragement you needed to keep going.
Allgood - don't know if you missed my question but I was wondering if you considered going with your H to talk to his mom.
NoFun - you've been MIA. How are you? Check in if you feel up to it.
Hugs to the tribe and hope all those vacationers are having a great time.
Hopeless. But okay with that.
Nell - your situation reminds me so much of my own in that my H is always on his best behavior when he's not so sure of where I stand on our M. Once he starts to regain some confidence that I'm in it for the long haul, he reverts back to old behaviors. Problem is, with each episode I build up my walls a little higher. He has been on his best behavior for a while because it's been months since I've let him "back in."
Not the best way to live but it is working for me at the moment.
The problem is these guys refuse to do the work in IC to change. My H would tell me, "I don't need to go but if you do" ...
A while ago I wrote a post and I still feel this way. Having us leave is not the worst thing that could happen if our S's don't make significant changes. Indifference to them is another sad and hurtful outcome.
There is a man who was a member of the board of directors where FWW worked the job before last. He resigned from that board and went to another board after she started working at the organization.
At the organization where the opening that became her last job, this man was a member of the board of directors too. After she started working there he left this board, but went back to the board where she had been working (job before last).
He is divorced now. She has applications out for new job including another organization where is on the board of directors. He would be her style of person. Kind of needy, but with money.
To be honest, I have no evidence there was ever any A, just an unusual comment from him to us last year. FWW consistently denies any relationship before or after dday. He is on a few different boards. I am sure it is all coincidence. It is just frustrating that I even think about this.
Anyway, I have a sister that lives out of state & that I have basically no relationship with. There was no official break in the relationship, we were never close, we never enjoyed each other's company, etc. and her moving away really just sealed the deal. WHen I told her I was breaking up she shared with me that she was having huge problems in her own M (which I had suspected) which don't appear to be resolved at all. But, we don't have the kind of relationship where it went any further.
I have 2 very close friends of mine that are very supportive - have been since they learned of the A and through this separation as well.
My parents have been supportive in that they have offered whatever help necessary, etc. and have respected my wishes that basically they mind their own business. Lol. My family - I never ever relied upon them for emotional support. My mom always has good intentions, but she and I do not have the same views on life, do not have the same life in any way & I find he to be very critical and judgmental. It's beyond annoying. Actually - Forgive - you were AWOL when I told my mom about the s/d - her immediate reaction? She said "You get that from your father's side of the family." She was completely serious. I did not respond to her suggestion that there might be something genetically defective about me that caused my current circumstances. But, that is kinda a classic example of what to expect in the emotional support category of my family. Lol. Soo - I go solo most times. But my sil and 2 good friends are there for me. So, I'm ok. Thanks for asking.
And, I hope you are ok too.
Musicians dont retire, they stop when there's no more music in them
Thinking of you all.
I have been MIA.
H and I have been doing a lot of fun things this summer. The problem is I can't let go of the A shit. I start obsessing and triggering. I still think about the A on a daily basis. I get so hateful, angry, and I feel so alone.
FNF - my H could never share his emotions and therefore it was always difficult to connect and even more so now as I truly believe "a tiger does not change his stripes." He may be a changed man, (meaning he won't cheat again) but those stripes are still present. There is no intimacy or emotional connection. I, like tryn, day dream about being with a new man, or just being alone.
I blame myself for my H's LTA even though I know better. If only I did this, if only I didn't do that. Grrrr....
At this moment in time, I am not ready to end the M. I don't think I could emotionally deal with a D right now. Plus, I am one of those people who needs to know where I would be financially. I'm more afraid of the financial aspect than anything else.
I am still taking steps to get my ducks in a row....just in case. I am having my business and our properties appraised. So we shall see.
Hugs to all
i read up on all...memory is sketchy but needed to shout out to a few of u..
tryn: trust may be a choice but its also a feeling...like peanutbutter...you dont choose whether or not u like it u either do or you dont....you opt right now not to trust but to let it all be.....trust comes with time and earnings...the benign trust is gone and will never be back
evil: sorry no ur wife is far from evil...shes made lots and lots of mistakes..i kno around si cheatn is not considered a mistake...its a choice...a very bad choice...because she makes really bad choices does notmake her evil....she never wished harm to you....
pfm is not even evil..his family..yup 100%, but not him...he made and still makes poor choices...
and as for her abortion...i am totally pro-choice...i have never had one but if i were in a bad position i probably would have....and onlythose who have been in those shoes imo should sit in judgement of those who have felt they had to do that,....its not an easy choice and more often then not its usually felt like the only choice....
m3: i would tell the nanny to stay away and if she is ever seen near u, urs or ur house again u would and should call the police...u mightalso be able to file a report without pressing charges just so its on record if u need it to be
those who dont post...its ok...and we would never feel like u r horning in....this site is all about sharing, its huge group therapy for all
nell: chocsing to live they way u do...not acceptable to me....if u r doin it for your boyos...then at least have some sort of plan for u, even if its eventually..planning for our own happiness is a need not a want.....we need to look forwardto things, goals and happy shit
honest: again hon...u need to post, u need to purge it out...i kno u keep upwith ur journal...at least i hope u are...
ats: still not sure how to address u thses days....i sense u need a peace of the mind more hen anything and so far u have not been able to find a path to give u that...
ok..memory is done of my catchin up..
miracle update...we are actually having a good time...my kids are havin a great time....pfm and i are arguing, but it seems to have some sort of control to it...and i have to admit we are laughing too which helps....its just so hard when i look at him and see who he really is...i told him yesterday that when i lash out its because i need to and if he does not want to take it he could leave, but as long as he opts to stay he needs to take it and shut up and god help him when he snaps at me which he has been doin here and there,....when he does it gets real real ugly and he;s quite lucky my kids are not around for it because if they witness the real ugly, the odds are the s/d would be bumped up...
ok..tired of typing on this laptop in this odd position...
I cannot change the fact that yes, My W was evil. Evil can be hidden you know? The reality is that I don’t believe my W has continued her relationship with her OM. It might be a matter of me trusting myself to believe what I truly feel, and not the safety check off list.
Anyway, Iwant, I hope the kids back safely at school now. Back to empty nesters for us now. When do you start?
Hey Nofun, your absence did not help you forget? A point of debate in my mind right now....
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:12 AM, August 23rd (Tuesday)]