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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 26
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle, jollum, njgal, and dip ~ thank you so much for the kind words and compassion. I really do not know why this all was so upsetting for me.

Maybe it is as jollum pointed out

never, ever let anyone tell you your pain isn't valid or that one type of pain is worse than another. No one can know what anyone else feels in the way of loss, or grief.
I was letting other people's opinions make my grief seem invalid. It is so obvious now that you pointed that out to me.

miracle ~ so sorry for the loss of your dad, too! And, you are right about putting a different spin on it (about FWH justification) I know I need to talk to Mr. Sister, but he often times thinks I am just trying to beat him up and make him feel bad for what he did. He is a major conflict avoider. Everything must be great if Sister isn't talking about it. His actions are good though. He is thoughtful, kind, caring and transparent. Just doesn't like to talk.

njgal ~ thanks for the book recommendation, I'll have to put it on my reading list.

jollum ~ you are so right about the compassion here. Especially here on LTA, I think I am going to be hanging out here for awhile as opposed to the other forums. Thanks!

dip ~ loved the mankini! Woo-woo! You are right about people always seeking answers or understanding. I know that is what I have been wanting for the past 16 months since D-day.

I really think that death is much worse. I also think the infidelity is harder to get over.
Yes, I can agree with this, this makes perfect sense to me. It isn't so much a pain thing, it is getting over the betrayal which is harder. *light bulb*

Welcome to the tribe, b&l, the people in LTA are a righteous group.

It is understandable all the fear and anger you are feeling. I think you probably should give it a real try to be able to say you did, as miracle posted. I don't think you should put yourself on a deadline date as of yet, either. It does take time. Lots of it!

peace and serenity, tribe


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8926 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sister

Please never, ever let anyone tell you your pain isn't valid or that one type of pain is worse than another. No one can know what anyone else feels in the way of loss, or grief.

Jollum said it better than I could have...but for ME
I would choose the pain of this Affair/betrayal everyday for the rest of my life than to lose any one of my children or nieces or nephews. I have never lost a child either and I'm sooo sorry for you and for Miracle and the boys family.

Dip and Miracle are right...

Parents really should not have to bury a child.

It's just not the way of nature.

ATS
It hurt me to read your post. Sorry she said those awful things.

[This message edited by 0115 at 6:37 PM, July 26th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 8:02 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I always wonder why people try and compare apples and oranges or my tragedy vs. your tragedy. Isn't there enough sadness, fear and anger in the world to go around? Does it really matter if I feel worse than you? Or you feel worse than me? On any given day there will be someone sadder, happier, younger, older, richer, poorer, prettier and uglier than I so why stay awake nights worrying about it! There's plenty of other stuff that can keep us awake at night...like where does one even buy a mankini??

Welcome to the newbies. The Tribe in the LTA forum has become a sort of family to so many of us here. There is no one else that knows what it feels like to have had a spouse have a LTA. Don't get me wrong...it's not better or worse, just different. In some ways it may be easier in that a BS may not even consider trying to R with a WS in this sich, or it may be more difficult to process the information. Honestly, I think that everyone is different in how much and how fast they process, so the bottom line is, don't expect any kind of "normal" reaction. Give yourself time to just accept what you're feeling and know that your feelings will jump around. They don't call it a roller-coaster for nothing!

njgal - How long before you made the decision to take the leap and accept the efforts of your WH to R?

Should I stay or should I go?
I would have these very convincing arguments in my head....and these could go both ways...one minute I'm conviced that I should pack my bags and leave and the next day I'm convinced that reconciling is the best thing possible.
The uncertainty is crazy for me. I am a planner. I plan vacations 1-2 years out. But I don't know if I'm even going to be living in this house in 2 months?

Tryn - If I was really confident that I could find someone to have that exciting feeling of being in love again, I wouldn't hesitate to leave this M. And that scares me as I think that that means that I'm leaning toward staying because I'm afraid. I don't want to live my life one way because I'm simply scared of what may be down the other path. The devil you know vs. the devil you don't.

Honest - You sound stronger and stronger.

Miracle - You doing okay tonight? How are your kiddos doing with all this?

ats - Hugs to you my friend. I can feel your sadness.

{{{Tribe}}}


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SisterMilkshake… I am glad you shared your story with us. To me, it is a story about a beautiful woman making the choice to love child. I haven’t thought about this for years now but I had an Aunt and Uncle that took a troubled boy in like you. The boy ended up murdering another man at about 21 too. He is in prison and his life is over. And at that time, when all this happened, I was innocent in life to any real pain that happens to people. I admit today that had my W not cheated on me, I would not know your pain. I can now understand how you felt and in fact did shed a tear. I can understand how my Aunt and Uncle felt. To compare pain and feelings is sometimes the only way for others to understand how you feel. That is why people compare. When grieving, you often cannot hear what someone is saying to you anyway, but for some reason real comfort is having someone feel your pain too.

broken&lonely… I have felt those exact same feelings you described. Advice? Live your life in condonation and with conviction and be rich. I drove through the most beautiful West Virginia Mountains tonight.

Forgivenotforget… You OK?

These things made me question whether or not I made the right decision. My b'day is coming up soon and I am waiting to see what he does. If he treats it like another day it will be another "nail in the coffin" of our attempt at R.

Yes, I bought a toaster as a gift one Christmas. It was just a regular 2 slice machine too. Is that a normal day?

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:04 PM, July 26th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2635 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stong..
Tryn - If I was really confident that I could find someone to have that exciting feeling of being in love again, I wouldn't hesitate to leave this M. And that scares me as I think that that means that I'm leaning toward staying because I'm afraid. I don't want to live my life one way because I'm simply scared of what may be down the other path. The devil you know vs. the devil you don't.

Are you afraid that men won't find you attractive? One man I know finds you attractive. Your H! So what make you think another man won't?

I recommend you post a profile on Match.com with a profile saying you are S and just looking for someone to goto a movie or something. Just platonic. See what happens.


Laura, nell, allgood, Nofun, m3 posted pic... All very attractive women.

poof

[This message edited by trynhard at 5:13 AM, July 27th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2635 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trying to review over the last posts...my head is still not taking it all in...however when trying to reread

awakened....i am so sorry hon, it sounds like so much is goin on for you...and its got to be so so hard to be there in disney whilst knowing that as soon as you get home your world will change....

and good for you for standing up to your mom...not easy when you first get started...its hard to become an adult in their eyes and yours when you are with them...so bravo to ya...

sending love your way...


tomorrow is the first day of the wake...not looking forward to it...i dont think this one will be as calm as the last one...


will be back tomorrow to see if i can reread all posts better....

oh and jollum your words were beautifully said about comparisons...and dip your words as well...you are one smart cookie...



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:34 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi tribe

I am knackered. (Aussie slang for stuffed, buggered, exhausted, shit _ I don't know!) = huge day. I have read all the posts and remember nothing.

I know there is lots of pain out there but also optimism. Forgive me for not responding to each of you individually. I will try to read again and get back to you later.

I did want to make one observation about the word clouds.

Wordle prints the most common words in the text in larger font. What really struck me was the word "honest".

Honesty has always been my most important value. I don't care who you are, if you are honest you are my kind of person.

I knew FWH told "fibs" but didn't realise he was dishonest about the big stuff - so maybe .... what? I don't know. Maybe our R depends on him becoming "honest"!!

Love to all.

I WILL read again later and maybe if I can get my head to work I will write again

Love

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1st, I will be thinking of you iwam as the wake occurs today. These evfents always seem to stir unrelated emotions for me.

The true irony is that the more I become detached, the more FWW reaches out to make contact and touch. The last few days have had spontaneous ugs and touching. She left this morning to visit with her father for a week. Last night she gave me a bottle of rum as an anniversary present. It was unusually in that she called the place where I had ordered it to find the name, and then went out to buy theat brand El Dorado Special Reserve. This level of planning, while typical for many, is unusual for FWW. I was pleasantly suprised.

She also gave me a letter she had typed up:

It is our anniversary again. It was not possible to find a card to say what I wanted to say. I know it has been three years (19 months actually) since you realized what was going on. There has not been one day since that I have not in some way been trying to improve me and improve our situation. I know there is a long way to go and I know you are tired or maybe weary is a better word. There have been many many years of dysfunction, poor communication, hurts, misunderstandings, different goals and expectations. It is a slow process sorting through where to go next and how to proceed. I am not doing well describing how I feel or what it is I want.

My first inclination is to rehash the past, visit old issues, express old feelings, and yes, place blame on you and on me for not getting this right years ago. I am trying to have empathy and trying to reassure you it will be OK, I struggle with both. There is so much I still need to sort through and figure out a way to move beyond it. This taking ownership is new to me and it is much more difficult than I had ever imagined, perhaps that is why it never happened before and I lived comfortably blaming you, the world, etc for my unhappiness. However, mistakes were made by both of us and some of the damage may not ever be able to be undone or completely scarred over.

Some things will always suck and always hurt and those are the things hard for me to leave behind. I don't like things I have done; I don't like things you have done. But, can those be somehow resolved and in spite of past hurts, can love emerge and closeness occur? My anger, disappointment, tends to run deep from years of familia abuse. I don't trust, I don't bond, I don't feel intimacy, at least very very rarely. I do keep myself in a protected little box so I don't get hurt but I also don't feel love — the numb box. It has been safe and has served me well. I cant promise this will work, I cant promise I will ever be what you want me to be. I cant promise I will ever be what I want to be.

However, I do want to continue our journey and I do want it to have a mutually positive outcome for both of us. If you are OK hanging in there as it is, with the knowledge it may be fantastic or it may suck for a while, or may always suck, that is what I want. If you don't want to chance not knowing the outcome and not know when or if it will get better, I understand that too. I cant promise anything but that I do want to continue to explore our relationship, work on having fun days together, and work on having a tolerable if not enjoyable future.

I do have an expectation that somehow someday we will not be a family divided. It may take a lot of work, but that is what I want for all of us, I have to have that. For me, I want to feel calm, at ease, and OK with who I am, what I want, and be strong enough to not worry whether or not the world, you, my family, my friends, bosses, anyone loves me, approves of me, or validates me as a person. I am not there yet, better, but not close at all. I cannot be a good partner to you or to anyone ever if I don't conquer feeling so nervous, so unequal, so intimidated, and always wrong or stupid. I have always lived in fear and worried myself sick over what you think, what my parents, my bosses, my friends, my children think of me. It has not worked well, it has made a complicated web of lies and living in and out of "character" for literally everyone. I feel sickly controlled by what you will think of me, and most of the time, I think you disapprove are disappointed, are not happy with me, etc. These are my issues, not the facts hopefully. In my failed pathetic attempt to have you like me and to have you like my children, I have "protected" you by not telling you how I really feel. This has been a pattern of mine in every relationship since childhood. Trying to protect by sugar coating or not being truthful has not worked well at all, I have tried to avoid conflict by not being honest with anyone on who I was and what I truly was feeling or thinking.

It is a huge challenge for me to be different and to be who I am and what I am regardless of other's opinions. I have been living in total stress and with huge anxiety worrying about pleasing you and• everyone else and it has been a miserable existence and I have failed myself, you, our children, and everyone by do so. I want to be different and I am striving to be different, however, after over 50 years of getting it wrong, it is taking a while to get it right!

Will you try to stay in this a little longer? Will you have some more patience with me? Will you stand beside me and provide support if I need it? That is what I want, but I also know you are tired and you don't see an end in sight. I don't either, but right now my path is to keep trying to get better and be a real person and to have a real relationship with you. If you are in — great, if you want out, I understand that too and will be cooperative. I would ask for you to at least allow me to be employed before we separate so I have some financial security.

I know this hasn't been easy and I know by me saying I am sorry a million times doesn't ease the pain. It is more than apologizing at this point, its more about me being honest in the future and daring to be who and what I am in spite of what others what me to be or want me to feel or want me to say. I would like you to continue to spend time with me because you did tell me I am "a nice person"-- and once in a while I actually can catch a cleat with a rope. But, if you want to go do your things and start a new life, I will respect that and will cooperate amicably.

For better or worse.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3961 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats

WOW

She is trying. Some of what she said shows she still has a long way to go but she is trying.

I admire your patience.

I truly don't know what I would do in your sich.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
jollum
♂ Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats....what Laura said.
She obviously has been doing a lot of thinking. Just remember to protect yourself my brother. You "may" want to walk with her her but protect yourself and make sure when (not if) she trips up, you don't get pulled down with her again. She has to do this not you. All you can be is a support person.

Strength to you


Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
jollum
♂ Member
Member # 25152
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwam...thinking and praying for your family today.

Laura28,

I am knackered. (Aussie slang for stuffed, buggered, exhausted, shit _ I don't know!) = huge day. I have read all the posts and remember nothing.

Could this be because you are upside down???
After all if I look at the globe correctly Australia is definitely upside down from us....just a thought...


Posts: 269 | Registered: Aug 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats-
how do you feel about your FWW's letter?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats,
I have a response to the letter. But that's unimportant. I'm with njgal in wondering what is YOUR response?

Laura,
Damn straight you're knackered. I hope things are going well at work and it's a good kind of knackered. Get lots of rest and drink plenty of water. Take care of you while you're taking care of business.

Sister,
I'm glad you epiphanied. (Making a noun into a verb is a pet peeve, so I do it to make myself giggle. That's why I'm a dork.) I agree with whichever tribe member brought up the idea that we (the collective "we") compare pain in an effort to understand it, own it, get through it. "Is this like a death of a loved one? Is this like a broken back? Is this like losing a job?" Not necessary to waste much energy on it, but I think we all do it to some extent. jollum, right on.

strongish,
I'm a planner, too. I used to plan for trips weeks in advance... it was part of the enjoying for me. I would think of all the fun stuff I/we would do, and list out what I/we would need to bring in order to do that fun thing... so "spend an evening on a pontoon" would be written down as "bathing suit, waterproof flip-flops, bug spray, collapsable cooler, cotton wrap, hair bands". Now I can just barely force myself to think about packing the night before a trip... and only because I absolutely have to... and even then it's half-assed. I doubt it's a change that WH notices, but it's a huge mental shift for me, and not in a positive direction.

m3 and Allgood,
Check in please.

tryn,
I had to giggle at

Live your life in condonation and with conviction and be rich.

Only because it sounds like something my dad would say, if you had added "...and don't say anything stupid" to the end. (Actual job interview advice. Thanks, Dad.) My family makes me laugh. Buncha goofballs.

miracle,
You know you don't always have to respond to the rest of us, right? We can be here for you unconditionally. Thinking of you all.

0115,
Moment of stupid-me truth: I used to think that I couldn't be A Serious Writer because I hadn't faced any adverse conditions... never lost a parent, sibling, child... grew up in a healthy, middle-class home... etc. etc. etc. Now I realize that none of that matters. I can somewhat imagine how someone else might feel when faced with extreme loss, extreme betrayal, etc. And I was always able to imagine it (as well as anyone could) because I have empathy. I fear that in our culture, people who have faced culturally-approved "hardships" (rape, but only if you dress nicely... child abuse... surviving a murder attempt, but only if you have never purchased drugs... KWIM?) are given some sort of mental award for responding with forgiveness and/or compassion and/or acceptance--awards because that's unexpected, as opposed to expected--and are elevated to some sort of saint status because they didn't seek revenge instead. I don't think this says anything good about our expectations. I was thinking about this last night while watching "America's Got Talent" or whatever (the one with Sharon Osborne)... one guy was a down-and-out guy who was feeding his family by washing cars, and he sang (badly) a Frank Sinatra song and everyone just fell over themselves... not because he did a good job, but because he's The Underdog and, man, we looooooooooooove us some underdogs. Until they do something we don't approve of, in which case The Underdog is then retitled Unworthy Scumbag and we wash our hands of him.

...Where am I? Oh, Side Track. Didn't mean to go there. Making a U-turn...

So, in Nelland, WH has "a happy hour to celebrate the end of a project" at work on Thursday. I was, of course, triggering over this, as "happy hours" were one of the many excuses used to meet up with COW. Didn't occur to WH that this might be a trigger, though I have told him in plain English every time he has a "happy hour" that such things trigger me. So I sent a text that said. "I am uncomfortable with your "happy hour" on Thursday. Solutions?" He responded a couple hours later with a semi-resentful "why don't you just come to the happy hour?" but left all logistics to me (not that I have any expectations... it's my problem so it's my responsibility to solve it). Then he sent me a very nice text a couple hours after that, including an "I'm sorry" (yes, you are) and using the words "I will do whatever it takes" (a big fat lie). That was the end of that discussion. I spent valuable mental energy on puzzling through what exactly I wanted/needed and, basically, decided that
(a) I am not going to show up at WH's happy hour because that would be stupid, pointless and further waste of my precious time.
(b) I am proud of myself for stating that I am uncomfortable with something without flipping my lid or having any expectations of outcomes.
(c) I can clearly see that WH's loving words still do not match his actions (i.e. he is not HONEST).
(d) What I want is to NOT WORRY about what my husband is doing when I'm not looking directly at him (and sometimes even when I am). WH could make his easier on me, but chooses not to. So it becomes my problem to solve (as opposed to "our" problem).
(e) I am healing. Alone. Not because I'm a bad BW (to not look to WH for support), but because WH has not done any of the work to be able to support me. I have no reason to feel guilty about my thoughts, feelings or actions. I am doing A+ work here. Big fat gold star for me. pat-pat-fucking-pat

I'm off to buy "Co-Dependent No More." Because after an entire lifetime of avoiding self-help books, I now buy so many that Amazon has me pegged as a junkie and/or guru seeker.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 10:47 AM, July 27th (Wednesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats-
how do you feel about your FWW's letter?

Ambivalent?

I like that she identifies her issues, that she acknowledges she is struggling, and that she understands I have grown weary of what our relationship has been and become.

I am frustrated by what I still perceive as blame-shifting, or at least excuse-making.

... mistakes were made by both of us and some of the damage may not ever be able to be undone ....

I don't like things I have done; I don't like things you have done.

There really is nothing new here for me. She struggles to have an intimate relationship with me. She cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel. She hopes there is one, but readily admits it may not be there.

Still, this may be the most honest communication I have ever received from her in any form. This letter, combined with her researching a gift for me (she usually just buys something handy and sticks it into a bag) indicates to me that, at least yesterday afternoon and evening, she got it.

I can tell you that her expectations are much lower than mine for our relationship.

..., work on having fun days together, and work on having a tolerable if not enjoyable future.

And here is the difficult part, this may all be her fear of abandonment (divorce) prompting her to say and do what she feels she must to control my actions. She is aware by now that sex which she has used to control men all of her life is no longer working (at least not as well ) on me anymore.

Finally, as the truth of our relationship over the years becomes clearer. I become more and more embarrassed, and angry with myself that I tolerated being in a relationship with an angry, numb wife who never really loved me.

That's what I think of the letter.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3961 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats,
I become more and more embarrassed, and angry with myself that I tolerated being in a relationship with an angry, numb wife who never really loved me.

ats... sweetie... HER truth is not THE truth. You did the best you could with what you had/knew at the time. Embarrassed and angry are two feelings that cover other feelings. They're also unhelpful, especially in this way when they are needlessly self-directed. I'm not going to tell you not to feel embarrassed or angry, but I hope you use the time you have alone to dig under them and understand why you feel them.

(((ats)))

That letter was really hard to read.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nell:

pat-pat-fucking-pat

ow #1's name...i think its fitting somehow...although i am not sure how it fits... him fucking her, or is she a fuck...or more then likely...both

still trigger much...

You know you don't always have to respond to the rest of us, right? We can be here for you unconditionally.

thank you nell....first i know i do not have to respond, second i love love love it that you are all here for me and third...its not so much as responding as it is keeping up....with exception is if someone is in crisis i would like to respond...


sometimes when my head is overwhelmed as it is seems to be since finding out about this kid i cannot seem to concentrate on what read some of the time, so i skim..and if i were close to this family i dont think i would even be able to do that.....


ok, so todays notes...good thing that there was not much


ats: well that letter is honest i believe...and of course she is blameshifting still, she is still a work in progress....of course its not perfect but yet it is...it represents who she is now, who she is was and who she wants to be....and she is telling you point blank she wants your marriage for better or for worse, she is hoping for the better but still wants it even if its for the worse..

the only thing though i think that bothers me and again it could be my head not in the game..she never says she loves you...and that may also be that she does not know what love is,


nell: the down side to you healing yourself is you will forever resent him i think for his not having a part in it...resentment breeds contempt.....not a pretty place to live....


strong: i might have missed it, but did you ever answer why you want to sell the house?

and as for my kids..right now its not very tangible to them...my boys remember him, did not see him often enough once they got older...when they were little this kid was here alot.....my daugher remembers him....so far all are taking it well...it helps that they were not close to him...i think though that once they get to the wake it might be a bit harder for them to process...the last wake/funeral last month was a different entity...it was calm and rational...ive seen more irrational at older peoples wakes....until the funeral anyways..that was when the family fell apart and my kids were affected, but again from a distance...i will be with my boys tonite...my dd though will be with my friend, conicidentally the one who i babysit for..turns out that she knew the parents well....small small world keeps getting smaller...she also knew the last kid who died too....and until both deaths...neither of us knew the connections...

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
broken&lonely
♀ Member
Member # 31503
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. This seems to be a pretty diverse group of men and women in different stages of recovery and going down different paths. I'm sure there is great wisdom here.

Miracle - I like your idea of trying to look at it from a different point of view like giving him a chance to be a father, etc. I think that may be a helpful way to get through these difficult first months. I also appreciate what you said about regret. This is a huge part of why I've chosen to give R a chance. I don't what to look back later and wonder what if.

ats - I read the letter from your wife and your comments about it. Can I say from the POV of someone who is completely outside of your situation and not aware of your history, that it sounds genuine to me. I may be completely off base but from this letter alone, I think she's really trying to identify and work through her personal issues.

She seems to be very insecure about herself and her worth. I think it's a very brave effort from someone who sounds so scared of letting anyone close to her. She is exposing a lot of herself in this letter and that must be very hard for her. I'm very much this way and have always been guarded and held everyone at arms length for fear of getting hurt and I hear that same feeling in her words. I think that she's stumbling over words and maybe not choosing the right ones because reaching out is very foreign to her.

I think she sees the light at the end of the tunnel but when you feel this kind of fear, that light looks more like a train coming than the sun shining through.

As for her expectations for your future, it seems to me that she doesn't feel that she is worthy of anything better than "tolerable" and it doesn't really have any thing to do with you as a person. It's the way she feels about herself.


Me - BS (37) - Stronger & Wiser, Cautiously off the fence
Him - WH (38) - Earning his F
Daughter (2) - Light of our lives
Together 12yrs, Married 10, Friends for 20+
D-day 2.5.11
Attempting to find each other again

Posts: 381 | Registered: Mar 2011
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.

The more you detach the more she tries to make contact. This is classic push/pull on her part. She has been pushing you away but now she has to pull you back. It is a version of the "I hate you, don't leave me" thought process. Like you I have been through this. The pull part can be such a good time. Then the push starts which just sucks.

Of course the letter has blameshifting in it. As I said in my last post, this behavior is inbedded in their thought process. It has been there for a very long time. It is just very hard for them to view things any other way.

If you throw out the blameshifting what do you think of the letter? I saw much honesty and understanding by her. She knows she has many issues to work on. She knows it will be hard and that she may not ever be what you want. It must have been painfull for her to write about all this. It is full of guilt, anxiety, hopelessness and the abandonment feeling.

I do understand why you think she may be trying to control you now that she is figuring out that you really could be leaving. Your detachment or 180 is working. It got her attention.

My W could probably have written much of that letter. She has many of these same issues but not all.

I think most everyone here has felt embarassed about being in a relationship that was not what we thought it was.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IWAM - Thinking of you, your family & local community at this time.

Ats - everyone has covered my thoughts on your WW letter. I feel my WW is very much like yours in many. It would have taken a huge effort for her to write this letter (mine never has & never will). She has put herself out there, its not the perfect response you were seeking but at least its an acknowledgement that she is trying. Compare her efforts to some of the other WS in LTA.

For DP - he starts a new job soon - this one is closer to the mark in what he wants to do (a good career move) & more $$$.

(((IWAM))) (((ATS)))

Hugs to the Tribe.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Checking in as directed.
(It's nice to be missed!)

Strongish:

If I was really confident that I could find someone to have that exciting feeling of being in love again, I wouldn't hesitate to leave this M.

But will you have that in love feeling if you stay? If you have nothing to lose.... that says a lot. It's not so much an issue of can you do better and more a question of can you be happy where you are.

Ats: I was very impressed with your wife's letter until I got to the part you had bolded yourself - about a "tolerable future". My initial thought was she's got to aim higher, yet, I really believe she is being brutally honest with you in saying this as that may be all it can be.

Would've been a nice touch to say she loves you, what she likes or appreciates about you, etc. given the occasion - as this comes off more of a state of the union kind of thing more than an anniversary card.

DP: Congrats!

I suddenly found myself feeling sad, for the 1st time in quite a while, regarding the loss of my marriage. Successfully stopped the tears from forming tho.
I must admit I did call stbx to share this with him. He agreed it was sad, but did not mention much. Left it at that. We had no further contact the whole day & the thoughts left my mind pretty quickly. A disagreement between stbx & myself regarding child care arrangements at the end of the day reminded me why we argued frequently. He doesn't do as expected. Too long a story to recite, but I was pleased with myself that I did not get sucked into the drama & told him to stop texting me.

So, plodding along...
Good night all.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 5:09 PM, July 27th (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

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