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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 26
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakened-
sounds like you are doing all the right things.
The ball is now in your WS court...its up to him to prove to you that he truly wants to change and wants to save the marriage.
Hopefully, once you get your foot in the door with your first job it will lead to other opportunities.
Baby steps...both with getting back into the workforce and in terms of recovery. It takes time.

Strongish-
I felt the same way after we S. Except I also felt extreme grief, anger, and disbelief that I had invested so many years of my life and this was my reward.
It's funny that you use the word cherish.
I remember writing a long email to my husband saying that he had not 'cherished 'me in the marriage..like they say in the traditional wedding vows.
And, he answered back that it was true...that he had taken me for granted for many years and now he realized how wrong his thinking had been.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey - so often we're posting problems and bad things. Today and tomorrow I have to work. I don't like it. Much of it is my fault -- I am behind. Some of it is because my nanny missed many days of work -- I also need to make up those hours. My family wanted to go boating this weekend, but I just couldn't go. Also, someone was coming to see the house today.

Today, my husband got up early and cared for all the kids while I worked. He cleaned the house to get it ready for the showing and then he took the three older children to "camp" overnight on the boat.

So, I must make this brief, because I don't want to squander the gift of having this quiet time to work, but I just wanted to let you all know that I dropped the ball and my husband picked it up.

Also, he said the reason he let Baby Paddy cry so long is because she was trying to climb up the gate, which Sunshine just learned to do. PT and OT have both said we need to let her work on stuff like that for as long as she'll work at it no matter how mad she gets. I'd still prefer she do it with a dry diaper and a clean face though, LOL.

Last night, he took our oldest fishing with a friend and the friend's daughter. He actually asked early in the week if it was OK with me for him to go (I'm not his babysitter, mind you, but when you have 4 small kids there has to be some consensus about who is where when!) and then on Friday he decided to take The Pharaoh. He also spontaneously forwarded me the e-mail string from the guy he was going out with -- kind of offering up "proof" that he was really going out fishing.

I am SO glad he did this. I've never asked him to do anything like that, so it was his own trust-building idea, but also, this might sound really weird but he got a haircut on Thursday and that's a huge trigger for me. Because he was meeting OW in a hotel near his barber and using the haircut to cover up why he was out of work early / home early, etc.

Anyway, I thought I'd share some positives for a change. Now off to work. I'd still like to be on the list of ladies who have good jobs in 3 months...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Did a quick trip to visit the kids. They are good but busy with their own lives.

On Friday night I had a mini meltdown and yesterday all I wanted to do was come home. They had big plans for the weekend so FWH and I came home earlier than planned. I like to be "home".

So now it's Sun 7am and I am back in my living room. FWH is in bed and will probably sleep for another hour or so. I'd love to be able to "sleep in".

I have been thinking a lot about 2 things forgiveness and "making love". At the moment I am struggling to even know if I can say I still "love" FWH but these two are crucial if I am to stay with him.

I have come to believe that during all the years of his As I was no more to him than a "relative". He lived here with me and the kids but was far from committed to his family.

0115

he would retreat to our room when kids' friends would be over or we were hosting a party.....He said "I would be texting the OW." NOW ge sees what he has missed out on.

Like your FWH mine was too busy with his whores to make the family a priority. He would be "busy" doing jobs around the farm when the kids and I were at home or doing family stuff. I took the bulk of the load in the house and running the kids around to events, sport, dancing etc as I thought he was working hard for us. I now know that he needed to get his chores done when we were home so that when we weren't he could go visit his whores. So he missed out on so much. I need to feel some compassion for him re this. I think he now mourns the loss of time with me and the kids. Unfortunately his status as an absentee dad has really damaged his relationship with the kids esp DS20.

I now know there were many times when I was away weekends with the kids that he spent with his OWs. I would come home tired on Sun evening and he would want sex. What I didn't understand at the time was why it was always so perfunctory - very "wham bam thank you mam". I now know that we often had sex because he wanted to avoid suspicion. It was just a part of his "cover". He "made love" to his OWs all weekend and fucked me so I wouldn't be suspicious about the lack of sex.

So I find it hard to be compassionate about what he "lost" with his family and sex remains a big trigger for me.

If I am going to ever be able to forgive him I have to work on being compassionate. So hard.

M33

You're on your own now, so own that, get past the fear of it and figure out where you want to be.

This to me is the crux of the problem. As 0115 says we always thought we were part of a team. But we never were. So now the problem is to see if a We WANT to be part of this team b If FWS has what it takes in the "new marriage" to be a reliable team member. I do not want to be on my own. I want to be part of a team but am still trying to decide if I can trust my FWH to be on my team.

Honest

Loved your fishing story. Life's simple pleasures......

There is absolutely NO remorse. His actions show time and time again that he has chosen OW and OC's over me and DS's.

Honey this is what you need to constantly keep in mind. Perhaps a poster in your closet to look at each day (like Miracle said for the dream cloud). It will help to steel you for his arrival.

Tryn

Signs Birds and butterflies.

"why me lord" "why do I still think about the A, and infidelity" "Will I be 5 years out still under these reminders" "will I ever get to total peace?'

Yep. I get it. This is where I have been a little too much lately.

But so many times over the last 8 months or so when I needed a sign a butterfly would appear. Sometimes even when I didn't KNOW I needed a sign one would flutter by. Now it is cold here and there are no butterflies. But you have reminded me by reposting a butterfly pic. Another sign maybe?

Awakened

How do you post pictures on here like you do?

Honey you need the URL for the pic if it is on the internet. If it is a personal pic you need to put it on a site like photobucket and then get the URL. If you go to this link it explains more

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq.asp#FAQ1

You need to be careful what you put up. We LTAers got into LOTS of trouble with mods a few months ago for posting personal pics.

I do believe he is sorry he did this to us (regret) but he cannot put that into action (remorse).

Let's face it, he has ran from the work since day 1 and is very selfish.

Some FWSs are so SELFISH AND STUPID. As miracle says he's another who does STUPID well.

So sorry honey.

Strong

I do not miss him.

I can honestly say I didn't feel like I was cherished.

I started feeling like I needed "permission" in order to do something just for me.

I now resent that.

Yes from me on all counts. I felt/am feeling exactly like this.

am I nitpicking ... making excuses to detach

No you're not. Our ddays are very close. In a sense I have a problem. I feel all of the things that you do but my FWH has really stepped up and shown so much remorse that I still feel I should be battling on with R. I think I want R but when I think about the feelings you have described I am not sure. I wonder too??????

But I guess I will push on with trying R FOR ME!! I keep telling myself this is my "path of least regret" at present. I need to give R my best possible shot. But at present I can honestly say I'm not sure if it will work or not. I just don't know.

I want to be in a committed relationship, I want to feel sexy and desired. I don't feel sexy or desires with FWH and I certainly don't feel attracted to him sexually. Can I ever feel that way again? Help!

I also feel all of these. Isn't it odd? You are S while I am trying to R and yet I have the same feelings.

NJ

he had not 'cherished' me in the marriage...
And, he answered back that it was true...that he had taken me for granted for many years and now he realized how wrong his thinking had been.

This is where my FWH is now. He says it in his actions (although he hasn't used the word) but I am still waiting to feel it. He is doing everything right but somehow it is not penetrating my soul.

M33

Anyway, I thought I'd share some positives for a change.

just wanted to let you all know that I dropped the ball and my husband picked it up.

spontaneously forwarded me the e-mail string....his own trust-building idea

Honey this is great. I can see the smile in your words. So nice to feel he is really trying.

Have a nice day/evening/night tribe.

Love to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong: as for the distance you now desire...

of course you do...seeing him is a reminder, hearing from him is a reminder...when you see him, hear him you see the pain...you see a man who is sorry but maybe not sorry enough to do what it takes....

right now with distance you have a reprieve of sorts from it all....

at least thats how i feel, i only get the hours though that pfm goes to work....i feel such a sense of peace when i dont have to see him, hear him or deal with him in any way shape or form..

but for you it does not mean that you are done...although it may not bode well for r either....it merely means you need the time out from him


cherished...i was never cherished either...not at all, not during babies, holidays or even birthdays...i accepted his bad treatment....thats on me....


awakened...i love all that you are doing...now i want you to add one thing more...find something you love that gives you peace, whether it be gardening, walking...something that has you moving and do it....daily if possible....get connected to your inner self through your physical motion....


allgood: yes i can see the difference now, you are getting there...so yay for you....


question...how are you emotionally able to put him behind you...or at least know its in process....i know once he leaves the process will be that much easier but how do you do it while living together....

still stuggle with some of it and any hints on how to make it better would be appreciated...


ats:....good for you getting referrals and boating with your ds....keep moving towards things that are healthy


honest: when i read your posts and read all your stuggles, i sit here and understand....we seem to have so much trouble truly accepting who they are....we know it, we see it, we acknowledge it...but still we hope, still we have this expectation, still we look for any sign that who we thought they were is showing up.....and they never do....they NEVER DO!!!!....

hence comes my stuggle of acceptance and detaching completely....

and each time they show us who they are...their true selves we hurt...because when they show us who they are we not only do not believe them we dont want to believe them....but yet in a strange way we do believe them....we just dont want to have to....


no 2x4's....just support....and prayers he comes home safely and perhaps with a new more open eyesight of who his father is....and maybe their wont be a next time...maybe he will have learned that lesson of not trusting his dad...and that sucks....

we cannot protect them from everyone and everything, especially their dad's....or for some, from their mom's...

tryn...i am constantly amazed at the signs you recieve...methinks you have some really strong angels in your corner...


m3: its good to hear that he does right occasionally....


laura...your sounding quite doubtful again...but strong....doubtful in your marriage and strong in who you are....

and sounding doubtful is not only normal i would think but expected....you still only a year out...and its been a hell of a year for you.....

time, time and time....and the consistent efforts by him all help....


i was watching dr phil today (i tape it daily, and then play catch up when i can)...anyways it was about preachers who went wrong....sex addiction, porn addiction...anyways dr phil said something i forgot but still knew...

the men need ic....need help in replacing the bad behaviors with other behaviors that they can draw on when they feel that anxiety to do wrong...

basically the addictions were anxiety based...to ease the anxiety, sex, porn or drink, drugs...etc...were used to "fix" the feeling....

and i think for the ws's who were involved in lta's some of this is true...


he also told the wives that it had nothing to do with who they were, looked like, what kind of wife they were, how they were in bed....it had all to do with his anxiety at whatever...


and he also told the men that coming completely clean with their wives would be the only way to move forward and that every question would need to be answered, no matter how many times it was asked...and it may be asked over and over again because we dont' believe....


i love dr phil....his phrasing always makes me feel good about whatever...

miracle house update:

scrawny boy and manchild were at it again...these 2 seem to be on a merry go round of hurt....one is a bully and the other a skuch...well the skuch (scrwanyboy) got tired of being bullied and pulled a knife on the bully (manchild).....


i am so fustrated....it seems as though my life is falling apart in so many ways....

scrawny boy i believe is going through normal teen hormone surges, he is nasty lately, short fused and in general a nasty teen....he has good moments, but slowly or really speedily those good moments are fading....

there is a part of me that understands his need to lash out....but the mom in me is screaming that this is so wrong on so many levels...

the knife incident was quite short, pfm called the boys right after he pulled it, so distraction from the issue was the catalyst that broke it up...hopefully the lecture that followed will make him think twice next time or even better there wont be a next time...




i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle

Thank you so much again for your wise words.

SI has so much wisdom. I read your posts and those of other old hands like Tryn and NJ and so often what you say not just to me but to others resonates with me and I think YES!!

sounding doubtful is not only normal i would think but expected....you still only a year out

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!

I needed to be told that. I have been telling myself that(but not listening) and to hear it from another is so reassuring.

I am still on the roller coaster. And that's OK. It is not hurting as much since EMDR but I still have so much to process. At least now the feelings are not so overwhelming I can get on and do the processing. So this is where the doubts come in. Now I can think straight I can analyse, evaluate and hopefully find the future I want. I try to tell myself the doubts ARE normal and that LTA DOES equal LTR.

So often on here I read give yourself time before making major decisions. At least a year. With my PTSD I think my year must have started well after dday.

I am still early in the processing. And that too is OK. I have all the time in the world.

Fortunately for me FWH is making the time for processing easier in may ways. He is (mostly-hey he's human!) very supportive so without crankiness or fears about breaking NC I can at least think straight most of the time.

and he also told the men that coming completely clean with their wives would be the only way to move forward and that every question would need to be answered, no matter how many times it was asked...and it may be asked over and over again because we dont' believe....

Yes. For me this is hard. I still have problems with his "I don't know", "I don't remember" and more recently "I have already told you". I have to stamp on that one. Really start to put my foot down. I'm waiting for the right moment.

Now when we talk I'm usually fairly calm so he needs to step up more in this area.

Maybe this afternoon. We'll see.

there is a part of me that understands his need to lash out....but the mom in me is screaming that this is so wrong on so many levels..

I understand. DS20 can be a withdrawn, cranky, selfish, nasty, sour, ungrateful SOB at times . I am SO patient but it really gets to me at times. I try so hard to help him but at times he lashes out.

DO NOT TAKE IT TO HEART!!!!!

For DS20 I KNOW it is not about me. It is about his illness (and the fears that go with it) and his depression. When he is Ok I love him to death. When he is a SOB I try to detach. I have to. because if I try to reach out to him he just gets worse.

For your kids it is about growing up. Yes those boys can be difficult SOBs at times but it is not about you. Soon they will put on their big boy pants and become the adults you raised. As a teacher I see it time and time again. Naughty kids (and some of them are SO BLOODY NAUGHTY)raised in good homes with love and boundaries grow into great adults. I remember specifically comforting a sobbing mother some years ago. She had come from interviews with teachers about her very naughty son. I told her "He will be OK, he just has to grow up". By the time he left school he was one of the most admired kids in the place - by both teachers and students.

Your boys will be fine. They have a mother who loves them to death in all the best possible ways. YOU just have to survive it.

Love

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2726 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWIW miracle, my sister pulled a knife on me once when we were teens. It's only the end of the world if they use it...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - I just finished with the battle of the 2 brothers here today too.
Omg.
I'm meeting a friend out on the Island tomorrow for the day because I seriously need a break from all this or I am going to snap.
I have the same kind of dynamic you described. Today is the 2nd time inside a month that I've had to physically separate the 2 & it's becoming an increasing problem for me to hold my older one back. Luckily, the middle one (who provokes the trouble) knows to run, so even if I can't hold him for long, it's enough so he can get away.
Why can't they all just get along?

Anyway.

On detachment:
What has worked best for me is to use all of the hurtful, painful things & ask my self why I would want to be with someone like that. I've just over & over again said that I have feelings for him is not the point, he's just not good for me. This has sunk in over time and yes, his ongoing stupid behavior just reinforces my conviction. I can step back & say he's got a lot of good things about him, but we are just not good for each other. I've really through a lot of reflection come to the conclusion that my deep attachment to him was born out of habit and not knowing anything else. Fear of letting go. Fear of not having what's always been most important to me: my family all together.
I do blame him for being the cause of my children's pain when I told them we are having problems & knowing Part 2 of it all is quickly approaching (I've decided on next weekend, with him moving out a week later), which will be more devastating than the 1st, well, it makes me really hate him. I knew it would.

And, when I get upset about not having my intact family, I think about how my family has never been what I wanted it to be & even though it makes me sad to think it can never be what I wanted to give my kids, I start to think about how when the kids are grown, do I really want to be with him? It's nice to have a safety net - someone who's got your back, etc., but it seems our only joint interests were drinking - something we did when we met as teens & I outgrew & he didn't. So, what the Hell would we be doing as empty nesters? I see my marriage for what it was. It was not an intimate, nor emotionally supportive relationship.

And - on a more superficial level - I have stopped communicating with him when we are apart unless it's necessary. I don't check his phone anymore. I don't ask him anything about what he's doing. I avoid him when we are both in the house together, which is pretty easy to do - I just need to avoid the tv, lol.

O - and he hasn't share a bed with me in months. And, he's been keeping his clean laundry downstairs where he sleeps so he doesnt even come in our room in the morning to get dressed. This has made a BIG difference. Just not in each other's space.

I have found new friends to socialize with. I'm making plans for myself, instead of waiting for the invite to come. I've joined a book club that meets once a month & met a bunch of new people. Everytime I interact with other people, I remind myself that I have enough going for me. There's nothing wrong with me.

All I can think of at the moment.

ETA: M3 just reminded me - my sister pulled a knife on me too - thank
God I was quick enough to run out of the house right past my parents & would you believe that they didn't believe me? Dang! Now that's a whole other story about sibling rivalry.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:42 PM, July 16th (Saturday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:37 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - You are exactly right. This S is giving me some space and time to B R E A T H E. I need to remember that and not get so anxious thinking about where we go from here. Can you tell I'm a "fixer?"

Miracle - Your boys are growing up....all those hormones and nothin' to do with them. Hang in there....they will grow up, eventually. Until then you might want to hide any sharp objects.

Laura - Our DDay's are close but you always sound so together, like you are sure that you still want to make a life with your FWH. I don't know if I want that....make a life with my FWH. In a way I've been seeing this whole thing as a way for me to get a fresh start and live just for me (except for the kids, of course) for a while. I found a great townhouse today....new and affordable. Maybe once I get settled in my job I will look into it some more. Or not....again...I need to stop obsessing about where to go from here and just enjoy the peace and sometimes quiet.....


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, July 16th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a quick question please. How long did your spouse keep remembering MORE stuff. Not exactly TT but just more incidents, more conversations, more places. I'm glad he's being honest and it IS opening a door to his life that I never knew. Just wondering how long does this phase last? Btw I don't ask for sexual details so that's not what he is sharing.

Thanks for your help...I'm reading and feeling for all of your different situations.


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:57 AM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115-
For my husband it was a combination of not remembering details and also feeling such shame and guilt about his actions that he could not bring himself to talk about it.
One thing I tried to do was to limit the discussions about the LTA to the MC sessions. That didn't always work...because at times I was bursting with questions but I did not want the infidelity to be all we ever talked about.
I did think about it all the time as do all the BS but ironically, the WS do not think about it at all. Once there is NC and after d-day many WS feel a sense of relief that it is over and then they are ready to put it all behind them!
Meanwhile, the BS becomes obsessed with the details of the affair....
that's where my MC plan came in. We went 1x per week and that was the deal. he would try to answer all my questions and I would try to limit the 'discussions' to the MC office.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115.. I never got the whole story. It just doesn't matter. There comes a point where you just know enough.

Your spouse could give you every truth they know. With more truths, it just does not make you feel better. I can assure you, the more you end up know, it just does not matter. Imagination of what they did is not real, the fact are real and reappear.

Enough information I needed was this...
- Who the AP was
- How many.
- How they got away with it.
... Where it happened
... How long
... What did they do (meaning, did they do it because the need for BJ's, or whatever sexual needs)
... You need to understand how the lie was believable.
- Why they did it to you?
- Why not tell you?
- Maybe a few things like that.

What is enough? I know my W F'd OM hundreds of times over the 8 year span. The reality is that no matter all those details of where, how good it felt to them, what was said. Each time to them it was the same, Sex feelings good. Attention feels good. Despite what anyone can say, it was romance. It was the love of romance and all those things that go along with it. You don't have a LTA without more too. It is a relationship by choice.

You can accept or not.

To me, accepting means this.
- I can and will have feelings that are not good.
- I can and will have memories until the day I die.
- It is ok for me to have hurt over this.
- I can still love my W.
- The focus shifts to improving the M.


To me, Not accepting means
- I somehow need every detail, every moment in time during the double life.
- You cannot control yourself enough and cannot let it drop.

Please listen to this next statement carefully.

You are in grief. Grief has stages. An early part of grief is punishing offending party. Punishment comes in many forms and ways. The punishment must make the offender feel enough pain to never want to hurt another human again. I punished my W greatly. I am not proud of what I did. I think it comes naturally. Nothing I can say to you will change the punishment you need to give your H. Most punishment after LTA is The End.

When you stop punishing, it will be time to start forgiving. You may achieve this point or not in the M you are in right now. And you know what? If you R, there are no guarantees in life. Our spouses may or may not cheat again even after punishment. But knowing that, accepting that risk is what you do.

I can feel you. This old slogan is bull shit. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!" You made a choice to trust your H and give him a second chance. He made a choice to fool you twice. It is not your fault. People lie. You cannot possible see a lie without proof. When the lie is exposed, you must make a wise choice if you want a relationship or not with someone that cannot tell the truth.

If you do get to that point where you accept, then I can assure you when you do all the desirables, and not allow yourself to be treated undesirable, you will be happy.

Can you see the courage and strength of Iwant? Allgood? And the other here like Dip, Laura, me and Njgal. We have made our choices. Some say 6 months is not enough time to make a choice. I think it is. Make it, then live it. If you fall during execution, then pick yourself back up and get into that saddle again. My prays for you is strenght and courage.. and all here.

Another self-portrait.. of me...

My head is cut off. I am back in the saddle by my own choice. I don't fear even the king of beast who may eat me. I seek to be the king... again. With faith, I am getting my lion back.

BTW.. I have my "lion" back.

but it does not mean you know when to be wise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd3uO10Fzx8

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:13 AM, July 17th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
awakenedbytruth
♀ Member
Member # 29435
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

URGHHHHH! Someone please stop me from these conversations....

In part, when discussing the S last night he alluded to hoping that it makes him feel the desire to wake up want to do the things I need him to.....not what a stupid website, book or doctor tells us to follow. I get pissed. I said, no website, book or doctor has told me what exactly compassion feels like.....I just know in my heart it's not there. That instead of running from the guilt, reassurances and love would have made the difference to me. My hyper vigilance didn't just create itself.

He goes on to say that I don't take any responsibility for the faults of the relationship. I get to play the victim. I return with yes I did. I felt bad for my part in you feeling undesired so took a look at myself and made changes. Guilt = action = remorse. Yes he says, but he doesn't know if I really got into it. He said, You said before that at times you didn't want to but you did it for me. I should have left years ago instead of having an affair, because I told you many times I wanted more.

I said, we don't live in a fantasy world where a *#$% can fly all over the country and show up in a wig and wait for you to finish your work day. WE live in a world that includes children, work, hormones, irregular periods due to an IUD after you were too scared to do it on your end....so yes, may not have always been in the mood at first but have enjoyed it more this year than many prior. I'm sad that you thought differently. Yet, here we are again, talking about YOUR needs. I don't feel safe with you. The only thing that changes the path we are on is ACTIONS that show me that I can be safe with you again.

Oh my goodness, the hardest part is that he sits in his corner grasping for ways to make this justifiable to him. Makes we want to SCREAM.....Hurry up and get out, get out, get out!!


“Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.” - Raymond Linquist
Me BS-39
Him WH-41
Married 18yrs 2 Kids 11-9
DDay#1-July 5, 2010 (LTA 2 Years with CoW in corporate office)
Separating - 8/11

Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: West but my heart belongs to the South
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't take any responsibility for the faults of the relationship

Your H is living in some other world... He must live in a different country? Some perfect place where M is this wonder feeling all of the time. Where is that anyway?

EVERY marriage has issues. PERIOD. EVERY marriage over time has dissatisfactions. So, his solution is pure selfishness. I Keep the M and start a new relationship on the side in secret. How the hell does that solve anything for the M. It solves nothing but delivers mental trauma making it much harder to fix whatever he needs in life.

Awakenedbytruth, It sure does make it hard when someone is so into himself.



Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakened-
I forget..is your husband in IC? He definitely needs someone to call him out on all of this foggy thinking.
Very unrealistic expectations of marriage and also a bit of blame shifting.
Yes, we as BS need to eventually step back and take a look at our marriages (probably not possible to do until 6 months-1 yr post d-day) and take notice of what our role was in the marriage getting into the sad state it was...but, again, we are in no way responsible for the WS' decision to cheat! and cheat for a long time to boot!

Tryin- I agree with almost everything that you have to say but I absolutely do NOT believe that all LTAs were romantic or that romance played any part in them! IMHO there was nothing loving about the way the LTA affair partners treated each other. Love and romance is not relegating someone to BJs in a car...hiding the AP, being ashamed of the AP, ETC. ETC. I could go on and on....
the WS may have been infatuated with the 'idea' of someone desiring them sexually and also enjoyed the attention, false flattery etc.
Tons and tons of single people... have ONS and even long term meaningless sexual affairs and will tell you that they were never 'in love' with their sex partners and did not have romantic feelings...instead it was a zipless f..k or a FWB (friends with benefits) situation...or even in the case of many younger men..just a case of a convenient roll in the hay with an available slut...and they can go back to that same partner over and over....

remember the high school girl that may have been regularly 'visited' by a number of teen boys? but..when it came to who they invited to the prom or asked out on a real legitimate date..it was not that girl...
why not? if having regular sex=automatic romantic feelings then these young people should have felt a real need to see this girl outside of the hidden, secret, sexual moments they shared.....

no..as hard as it is for us to understand this.. it an affair is something that is very unique and different from anything that most BS have experienced.
We keep trying to analyze from our own perspective and our own experiences....
you may have been a more romantic kind of guy...but, trust me.. I knew tons of men in the past that had no difficulty having sex with lots of women that they had zero affection for and definitely no romantic inclinations....

so...once again... I disagree on this theory.... but that's my opinion.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm listening to you and I think you are thinking I'm still ASKING for information. I'm not. He's telling me more and asks if I want to know. Should I say no? Specifically he originally told me they only f***** in her house. I asked if there were other places, hotels etc he said NO. Now he said they F***** in his truck, in his hotel room where he was at a conference (3 hours away) and he was pretty sure they didn't in MY car.
I haven't ask for this info recently but as he is remembering more he's telling me. Should I just say I don't want anymore info? Does it matter where they performed their skanky sex?
Tryn and Njgal BTW. He said they were friends with benefits but thought he might have had feelings for her at one time so I guess you're both right on this one


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

0115-
you have to decide how much you need to know.I needed to know everything (for better or worse) and I had a lot of information because I spoke to the OW's BS. He gave me pages and pages of very crude emails... form as far back as 2002...up until 2005. I had some more recent emails. They were very graphic.
I also had phone records, credit card records and was bale to piece together a lot of what happened...and then I asked my husband for a timeline and because so much of their extra curriculur activites were work related-at conferences and conventions etc. he was able to give me dates, places, and what happened (sexually).
Was it helpful? well.... it helped me to trust what he told me afterward.Whenever I did question something that he said I would remind myself that he had admitted to so many very embarassing, gross details why would he lie about this?
and... that's why I believe him when he says she meant nothing to him. The emails certainly reflect that. There is zero romance in them and in fact they are particularly degrading to the OW (apparently that was what she liked)....go figure.

some people need to know everything, some people do not want to know any details in the hope that it will help them forget...but, I think it doesn't matter because then we just imagine the worst and create a scenario that may not have existed.
It's hard..either way...

and yes..some people.. romanticize the affair or the affair partner...
but IMHO love is an action.
And nothing about how they treat their affair partner is loving.
You can say you 'luv' anyone.
When I was a kid my friends and I would fantasize about various pop stars.
When I was a kid I 'luved' Paul McCartney of the Beatles ...but is that love? just because I romanticized it in my head?

But I digress....LOL

Why do you think your husband is giving you all of this info out of the blue? does he think this is what you want? and he trying to recall what happened?
If you do not need all of the details then tell him not to share them with you.
If he has a need to recall what happened for himself and his own healing maybe journaling would be a better way to go for him.
This way he can recall what happened and try to make sense of it and you do not have to hear about until or unless you decided to read what he writes...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJgal
My H is remembering stuff that I do believe he has blocked...12 years is a long time and it was an everyday relationship. They talked or texted everyday for 12 years. She was like his 2nd wife....yuck!!! He is remembering and he asks before he tells me. I think I want to know. I guess I'm not sure if I do. I don't know if it's doing me any good.
Thanks for helping me on this journey.


BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

awakened....your ws is gaslighting and blameshifting...

listen up here.....no matter what state the marriage is in, cheating, bringing in a third party will never ever make it better....choosing to cheat chooses the consequences and puts all accountability for marriage issues on hold until the infidelity issues are dealt with to YOUR satisfaction....

so do not let this man bully you into thinking otherwise not for one single solitary second....

and methinks he is afraid of all you are learning....if he really wants to fix it he needs to step up and he needs to do it soon....the longer they take the harder it is to the point of killing any chances...


0115: as for what you want to know or need to know...njgal is correct...that is solely up to you....

remember that once you hear it you can never ever unhear it...

for me i needed it all, everything possible....still dont have it...and that is one of the major reasons my marriage is in name only and why i am biding my time for my kids.....


allgood: enjoy your day

and thanks for all the info on detaching...

miracle update...detaching is not going well...pfm continues to lie....

tonite i went for a power walk...needed some time and space for me....pfm decides to take his bike out and be where i walk....tries to tell me that he didnt know i would be there....yeah ok....want to buy some stock in enron too....

i have so much anger right now....i was actually tempted to make a phone call after i saw him.....and now i am more tempted to get out of the marriage way sooner then i originally thought....if he continues to invade all of my space i will have to do what i gotta do.....because i cannot live like this, i love my kids but i am a walking time bomb right now....and thats not good for them either...

need to plan a girls nite out this weekend...


thanks everyone on the boys talk....they were better today....but that is the way it always been...and i never know when one will push the others buttons.....manchilds girlfriend is back from a family vacation...hopefully he will be a happy sucker and leave scrawny boy alone...

(dont know if i told you guys about this new girlfriend...she is adorable...and they both "wuv" each other... )


oh and tryn i am with njgal on the romance shit....pfm had one and only one that had the romance or love...all the others that i know of were sex....and one was sex and importance....the judge represented some kind of importance to their relationship....it made him feel smart and above station....he was raised believing in stations of living....i wont go into those details,....but they would make your head spin at the ludicrus beliefs his foo held....one example would be my sil's mother...she is from italy...they said because she is from italy she is ignorant....yeah ok....still got some stock left in enron for ya...

tryn...the video was funny


strong..yup i know the feelings of being a fixer....its probably why detaching is so damned difficult...but i gots zero compassion for him...i mean a big fat zero!!!


m3 and allgood: is this sister safe now???

mine pulled a hammer on me, my half sister...but she was like only 4 years old....other then that...nope....no weapon pulling


laura: put up your own little sign....time, time and more time....and that you are processing it all in your own pace which happens to be a pretty fast pace...and that you have so much to process and not all of it has to do with him...so give yourself a break....some things cannot be rushed and the more you try to rush it the more the rollercoaster will dip and turn...


(((tribe)))



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:20 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey NJ... I do understand how you feel about that subject. For me, I just believe you cannot have a LTA without loving the AP. Where a sex act took place makes no different IMO. To me, that is passion and lust which is part of the love of touch. Too me, A LTA is no mistake to me. LTA are diffent than a ONS or buying a whore.

For me, knowing my W loved the OM is a given. And at that same time, is part of my acceptance. I know I am the minority in that thought on the LTA board in this and the meaning of love.

For me and my thinking what love is, you can love a celebrity by sending that person a gift or affirmation, but you cannot receive love from that person. Only when that person gives you something or acts on something, only then can you receive love. I would call a love of a celebrity impersonal love.

Retrouvaille taught me a whole bunch of stuff like... morality enters in only when the feeling is acted on.

0115, you can decide what you need to know. For my W, her telling me details would be like sticking a knife in me and turning it over and over. That was her feelings about giving me that information. Sure, I would hurt. I never confimed if she gave him a BJ, what positions, what she like from him or anything like that. Today, it doesn't matter because I know they did it all. When you have sex with someone for 8 or 10 years, you do it all.

I know things that will protect me from being fooled again. I know they met on Saturday my W saying she was going shopping. They met when I was traveling. They had lunch get togathers. I know the time and I am aware now so I can react should I want. I know that daily calls lasting 15 minutes is not just work. After hours calls is not work. Things like that.

Your visions of your H having sex with his AP will be in your mind forever. FOREVER. That is the consequences of an affairs. That is price you pay when you R.

Did your H have sex before he met you? You need to get to place kinda like that. It really didn't matter who you H had sex with before he married you. Nothing you can do to change that history before you married him. You cannot do nothing about his history. The key is today that it is now history.

Our brains have this way of healing. The thoughts, the triggers repeat and repeat, over and over. In time, it just becomes part of you. In time, once you accept, I equate this to Dr. Phil's cognitive and desensitization therapy. Your brain seems to relearn a relaxed association instead of a fear-related association. You don't fear your H's sex partners before you married do you?

If you move on and find another lover, that lover will have a history too. However, you will be at a relaxed stage because you have no dependancy on that new partner. It is not some vow to God, a commitment.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:15 AM, July 18th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
0115
♀ Member
Member # 31740
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, July 17th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn
As unbelievable as this is we were BOTH virgins on our wedding night. HS sweethearts and married at 19 & 20. That, as sad as it is is why we married so young...he wouldn't wait so I said "marry me". STUPID STUPID STUPID!! I've never had to deal with previous lovers. I thought we were onlys...he still is my only.

Sorry for hijacking this thread...I'm just having a really hard time. I'm reading and thinking of all of you, I just can't say anything that is even coherent right now. Sorry to be so selfish.



BS (me) 49
FWH 49 newbeg2011
Married 29 years
Very Long LTA
DD 01/15/11-6/30/11
The hard work is done...let the healing begin.

Posts: 997 | Registered: Apr 2011
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