Allgood, I did not say anything about your "one last time" comment yesterday, but it made me chuckle. No 2x4s... I think you're weaning yourself off of the niggling, which is good. You didn't seem to take a nosedive on the rollercoaster afterward... progress!
You know that FWW is self-soothing right now by fantasizing how much better life would be if she were alone... no one to hurt her, no one for her to hurt. Yes, it's hurtful if you take it personally, but you know that it's not a statement against you but in reality a statement against herself. It's hugely self-pitying, but she's working on it. That's not to say you owe her anything (you don't!) but, honey, you threw a little bit of fuel on the fire there when you brought up her being able to have her fantasy AND not lose her M and you.
I want someone to crave me, to be aroused by me.
WH cannot get DS's passport renewed, only I can.
How about Mr. Pfft. As in, the sound you make when you expel air between your lips and teeth when someone does something stupid.
180. BTW, the 180 is my hammer, and every problem is a nail.
Two things (quickly, as I really should be getting ready for work right now!). First, the night my parents left, I was feeling sad and lonely and told WH when he asked (I was on my way out of the room to crawl under the porch and lick my wounds) and he insisted on coming with me to hold me and apply words to the wound. Did not want that right then. But I kept the explanation short and sweet (I'm sad that my parents left; I feel all alone again.) He responded with "i don't know what to say; this is coming out of the blue." (REALLY? Because we have had this exact discussion forty kabillion times in the past year, and half of the times were accompanied by tears/drama so you should have remembered those.) Anyway. I was very good. Did not bitch, or over-explain, or anything. Just cried and let him hold me. (Didn't make me feel better, but didn't really do any harm either so whatever. If he wants to witness my tears, have at it. He's the reason they're there. Anyway, he appeared thoughtful and sad because I was sad, but I have zero idea what he was thinking.
The next day (yesterday morning) I spent half of my shower stoking the embers of my rage, then calmed myself down. Came out of the shower and told WH that I was thinking about doing EMDR, what it was for, who it was designed to help (PTSD). That I was tired of being angry, that I was tired of being someone who hates people, that while I was angry for good reason that it was not good for me any longer so I was going to see what I could do about it. Told him that it might get ugly while I was undergoing the therapy. I was very calm and matter-of-fact. No blaming, no pointing fingers, no boohoohoo poor me I don't deserve this. We both know who is to blame, who the fingers should be pointed at, and who does not deserve to have this problem. Then I told WH that he should get into counseling to deal with his shit, to which he replied "it couldn't hurt." Pfft. Dude. You gots problems. GET HELP. The only time the word "affair" was mentioned was when I said I didn't want him to go back to the psychologist he was seeing during his affair, because that guy was unhelpful.
Yesterday evening, he was Captain Superdonkey with a lot of meaningful gazes and caring embraces. (Textbook post-drama Rescuer actions. I should have offered odds on that, but I doubt any of you would have taken it.) But no mention of any real actions (i.e. counseling appointment).
Last night, I had a dream that he called the COW and I told him to get a lawyer because we were done. In my dream, he immediately packed his shit and left. I woke up feeling not much of anything. Will not tell him of this dream but am contemplating it. It's the first divorce dream I've had.
needed to get this out there...when i was talking last nite to my group in my aqua class...we were talking about weiner....pfm knows him...they had belonged to the same democratic club...its also where he met ow#2...who incidentally is a supreme court judge now...keep checking to see what bandwagon she might jump upon....but those judges...seem to be tightlipped...at least when the lips aren't on someone elses husband...
i am beginning to feel like everybody falls into one of 2 categories...
cheater or be cheated on...
the number of people who don't fall into either is woefully small....
hopin all you drinkers have clear unhurting heads this am....
nell: go for it girl...and i like that he wanted to be there for you and that you let him....everyone has to start somewhere...
honest: not off ad's...but off of the other stuff...its a step...i am all for the meds when needed, but i am one for doing things as au natural as possible...dont like drugs...unless of course im in labor... and no worries there..
have a great day everyone, here in ny we is havin a heat wave....so ny'ers...stay cool...
strong you have a pm, and check in, kkk
Here are instructions for fixing a pizza on a gas grill. If you need more info do a search for grilling a pizza on a gas grill.
Another option that has been avaiable where I live for the past two weeks or so, is to just put the pizza on the sidewalk or better yet blacktop road. You might need to "borrow" some of those orange cones from a highway department work zone in order to keep the pizza from being flattened like road kill.
My grill is not really a regular grill. It is a Kamado style grill. Probably the top two names avaliable in Kamado grills are Primo and The Big Green Egg.
Yes it is all complicated grilling all this stuff. It is hot dirty work. A very hard job. However it is not nearly as tough as being a mother. Score one for Dip the suck up.
Hugs to the tribe and best wishes to those who drank a little too much last night.
[This message edited by old dipstick at 9:01 AM, June 9th (Thursday)]
blueroses, how are you this morning?
I have raised the issue of not feeling my needs are being met in the M a couple of times in the last few weeks, FWW does not want to engage on this topic. We are going to get a couple of MC sessions scheduled and I will see if I can get her to engage there. I really think it is not unreasonable to expect some actions other than words, and as nice as they are, a back rub once a month or so does not take the place of a sexlife for me. I would also like to be able to make plans without assuming they will be cancelled for work or if her sister or DD wants different plans.
Nell: You are sounding stronger. I am glad that you decided to do EMDR and WH agreed to IC. It's a move in the right direction. Although you say it didn't really help that he held you when you were upset, it is a good sign. Sometimes I think a person does have to hear something over and over and it finally sinks in. I've seen that as a teacher when the lightbulb finally goes on.
As for the dream, I know for myself I kept wanting some specific big action to happen to knock me off the fence or out of limbo. Something I could not deny and would help me make a decision once and for all. But the problem with that is that there would be small things and I'd end up moving my boundaries to the detriment of my soul.
As for telling WH about your dream, lol, I was going to say to trust your gut, but as we all know here on LTA, we don't trust it that much anymore!
Ats: You have spent so much time and energy in helping Mrs. Ats and your M. Now is the time to focus on what YOU want.
But DON'T GO DOWN THAT SLIPPERY SLOPE when you go away for business.
It will only disguise the pain for a while, like drinking that vodka and in addition, open up a whole new set of problems. You need a fulfilling relationship, whether with FWW or not.
About taking that job? Hmmmm. It could be a new beginning for you, BUT you will not have the IRL support that you have now. You won't see your DS's as much. It will not help your M at all.
Ats, I suggest you go back over the last couple of threads and reread your posts or if you have journaled, reread that. You and Mrs. Ats have come a long long way. She seems to be starting to stabilize. I think she is going to be ok no matter what you do. You should be knighted for the efforts you have made to help her.
Now, it's time to help you and focus on what YOU want. Are you seeing an IC? If not, it may be helpful for a little while to help you decide what you are going to do now.
Miracle: Triggers abound everywhere! Were we so blind as to not to see all the infidelity? Or are we so much more aware of it, we see it more? Were we wearing Rose colored glasses and blinders? I do remember thinking ages ago that it seemed that the bitches got the nice guys, and the bastards got the nice girls and there were some nice people who did find each other. (sorry for the language)
I would see so much a real bitchy woman who complained and demanded and her H who was running after her trying to please her and giving her everything. But is she really happy anyway? (the same is true for the man who is mean and the nice wife)
I think they find people who will put up with their garbage.
My WH certainly found me
Doing well with 180, not really saying much to WS. MC tomorrow which I am feeling a bit nervous about for some reason.
Interested to hear about EMDR Nell, hope it goes well. At the moment, the searing pain I feel whilst remembering the pictures of the OWs that WS has on his phone is keeping me strong in my 180, and in my resolve to detach from WS. I just don't like that man in those pictures. WS has many admirable and even loveable qualities, but I feel completely emotionally unsafe with him, and I need to protect myself.
One day I will be less self absorbed and will be able to offer more here.
[This message edited by Whisperingwillow at 9:58 AM, June 9th (Thursday)]
OK, well, pigs might fly and everything, but how about I have a contingency; I would tell him I am pleased he has decided to work on himself and to examine his behaviour, I would tell him that I would be very happy for him to completely disengage from the OWs, as I don't think they are good for him in any way. I would say my guess is that he would eventually be much happier if he sorted himself out, and also, that it would benefit his daughters enormously. However, I would add, I really do think it is too late now for him and me to R; I have suffered too many betrayals, too many false promises, too many lies and too many OWs.
All hypothetical, but worth having a plan I believe.
Thanks for reading!
I can feel really strong and together, then I get a crashing wave of sorrow. Need to go out and buy b/day card for niece and B vitamins, after that will have a lie down and listen to a guided imagery download.
and if he does the walk not just talk the talk the rest will follow....he needs to build a new history...so he needs to show that its not just temporary and not just for you, he has to do for himself and it will last....
Just to add; I was wondering what I would do if WS did start to do what needs to be done, rather than just making empty promises, like actually take some action ...
May I also suggest that you ring or drop by the Citizens’ Advice local to you and pick up some leaflets. I think an initial consultation with them and with a solicitor will give you knowledge and confidence about your situation. Knowledge, as we know, is power. And the start of proceedings might serve as a dose of reality to your somewhat foggy fuckwit H. It does not mean you are proceeding with divorce, but if push comes to shove, you’ll be ahead in the game. I did feel good after seeing a lawyer. It did give me strength and made me realise i had choices too.
Gotta go. fWH is home from golf.
hugs to all.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:24 PM, June 9th (Thursday)]
I'm totally codependent. My Mom is, my Dad is, my WH is, my oldest son ... and def. IC#1 who kept giving me crap advice. Awesome read. I can't solve all my problems in the couple of hours it takes to read a book but it gave me a huge amount of clarity.
UK -- yeah, I'll go to MC if he'll go. Why not?
ATS -- I feel like we aren't very supportive of you. I think you're being a bit codependent too ... you're banging your head against the wall trying to get your FWW to get better because it's such a frustrating train wreck, but you can't do any of this for her. I don't think all the "yeah but shes..." that everyone is giving you help at all! (sorry tribe) I mean, the sentiment, in that there's no malice in her actions and even not a real amount of conscious thought, it's well-placed, but the reality is that (1) only she can get herself better and (2) it doesn't matter whether her actions are done "with malice aforethought" or not -- we'll call this one a strict liablity tort. (dorky lawyer humor)
My advice to you is ... drum roll ... ask W_A_L for advice. It seems to me from his posts he's been where you are more than anyone.
I do have a plan now after reading codependent no more. A healthy plan. Part of it is to go to Al-Anon meetings. I think that would be very, very good for me. I will ask my WH about MC. I'm just going to say, look, you want to do A, B, C. I want to do X, Y, Z and A and B might fit into that too but I can't live with C. I'm willing to go to MC, I'm willing to call it quits, I'm willing to do nothing and see what happens -- what sounds like the best path to you?
(ETA -- but I will also say, if he chooses do nothing, that's OK but you need to know that if C happens ever again I'm calling it quits, not saying "oh, now we really have to go to MC." it's over, forever, period.)
I think that's healthy. I could be wrong, but I think so.
[This message edited by m334455 at 3:37 PM, June 9th (Thursday)]
ats: first off, there are obviously things that she is doing that is not alright and you have every right to speak up...her travelin is a biggie....you do not feel safe with her doing so for obvious reasons...second her plans with her family...again she is crossing some boundaries with her priorities...YOU need to be her priority, YOU and the boys, her dd's too, but they are somewhat different since they are grown and on their own....
third: the sex issue...i think its time to address this one too, 6 weeks to me seems like a long time....
and finally i think ic and mc need to be a regular occurence....not just when there is time, the time must be made, making it all a priority...
she is making progress, but seems to be going off track and progress cannot be a seasonal occurance, it must be ongoing...
her job as important as it may be to her cannot trump you and her sons....not especially after all she has done....she needs to write a new history with you, and everytime she has been writing on this new tablet, it would seem that she takes a step out of it and stops writing....this is not something in which there can be breaks with exception to life and death circumstances, health circumstance which are far and above the ordinary...
the good news, it all sounds like marriage issues, with exception to her travelling and not 'a' issues...and marriage is or should be a working negotiation...
m3: you my dear are also on my mind, you have been all over the spectrum these days...
i think you need to simplify what you are looking for...in simple terms is there any hope that your ws can and will be what you need, and what your kids need...take each question like the one i just posed, one at a time, and progress each question in terms of a future...
as for the mc...well, i get the sense that he says one thing does quite another, and then of course there is much he doesnt say....bottom line it cant hurt, and worst case scenario give you a step towards mediation and securing expectations of what he is and is not capable of....
sometimes we see only what we want to see and not whats right in front of us...the human mind is an incredible piece of machinary...able to do so much, see so much and yet see nothing...
willow: as for your ws...he needs to walk the walk for quite awhile...there is no immediate fix....for most cases of infidelity in a marriage it can take 3-5 years to get to a point of ok, we have arrived at the destination now lets work on the marriage, the 'a' shit is worked out...for us in lta it takes quite a bit longer....long term affair=long term recovery....
and that is just the way it is...
in the meantime line up your ducks and do what you gotta do for YOU..
180 180 180.....
ok...will be back later...
or is it simply a mixed bag??? which is my guess....
this could be very good for your marriage should she not back pedal, it could be very bad for your marriage if she does choose to backpedal???
sounds like a total conundrum....
Jumping in quick before work.
Home early today after getting a call from FWW that she lost her job this afternoon
Shit!!!!. Just what you need. What is the current sich with your job offer? Do YOU want to take it? I suspect not. I don't like her being free all week while you are away. I really can't see R being possible in that case. JMHO.
I'm feeling better and better
That's great honey. FWH may have ADD but it's not obvious. I sometimes think he has asbergers with all his obsessions
I continued my mini-meltdown with stbx today. He just thinks this is not working. That marriage should be easy & enjoyable and that was not the way it was for us.
She said his behaviour sounds like abuse; like making his As my fault;
I truly believe it is. His blameshifting is just twisting the knife. So sorry honey
he refuses to change his boundaries and yet I have to be patient with his rug sweeping
No honey you don't. He really needs to step up and commit to saving your M. It's just not possible to R by yourself.
It’s exhausting…..and I sure hope it’s worth it.
Yep. We all have to fight so hard in the early days to keep going. Only you know how long you can fight for.Just don't lose "you" in the process.
I DID just finally get the breast aug I have been procrastinating about. I'd say that puts me right square in the cougar category.
I've been thinking about one for ages. First item on my D bucket list
Don't know how you can stand his asinine behaviour. Hope biopsy goes Ok.
well lo and behold the old lech is her husband.
I cannot stop thinking about COW. My gutter language is tormenting me! Is what I think you mean what you mean?
Sheesh I am running late. Gotta go. Try to catch up again tonight
Love and Hugs to all
miracle -- thanks. Yes, I've been giving myself emotional whiplash.
I am also guilty of saying one thing and then doing another. not quite in the same way -- like with this plan to move. I wanted to move into a less expensive place here -- then he said let's move back to where our families are and I'll commute and I said OK, but then after the recent upheaval I realized that I can't make a permanent move right now. It will only make things worse and my friends are my support system, not our families. so, I'll be guilty of saying one thing and then doing another too.
Al-anon will be good for me. My parents were not drinkers, but they are both adult children of alcoholics and my Dad (like me!) is mentally ill.
In other news in M3 land, it looks like my younger sister may also be bipolar. She's been undergoing treatment for depression and anxiety for some time now and it (the medication part) doesn't seem to work so great so her pdoc has gently suggested that they might need to try bipolar meds to see if she's soft bipolar given the family history -- she's pretty upset. I'm just calling her every morning to make sure she gets on her feet and off to work until she's adjusted to the new medication and I'm hoping for the best for her.
must go in a moment -- those beautiful children are downstairs having fun without me and we can't have that!
Your contingency plan sounds better than my contingency plan, for which I will need items like a generator and jumper cables. And possibly a hired ninja-slash-underwear model (male).
Jeez, do I really need to read Co-Dependent No More? Gaaaah... I don't want to be co-dependent.
How are you?
I gots nothin', really. Evil Twin (ET) and his alcoholic girlfriend arrive tomorrow. ET smokes a loooooot of pot while drinking and taking ADs. (This after being addicted to coke for a time.) And, according to WH, "she's [the alcoholic girlfriend] probably never going to stop drinking, but [ET] is helping her to control it." And Nell says If I did not have to deal with the fall-out from these utter trainwrecks, it would amuse me. But we are not amused, my friends... we are not amused.
ETA: Laura, COW = Co-worker Other Woman. But a great, great, great acronym. I love it!
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 4:34 PM, June 9th (Thursday)]