Enough with the mowing. When I see the word mow, I can only think of one thing……… Mind you, if I did mow, I’d like to mow MOW over while I’m mowing.
Allgood – just the daytrip? Whatever, have a great time and enjoy those kiddie rides as much as they do! Woohoo!
Nell, are you going to read it? In the months after d-day, I was strangely drawn to all art forms of adultery/infidelity/affairs. Films, books, articles, paintings. Now they just make me slightly nauseous and bring out the sarcastic side.
As a matter of fact, he still asks me to have another baby at least twice a week. Not even the fact that I appear to be in menopause has deterred him.
I think he wanted the security of a bigger family – wife, kids, dogs the whole domestic kit and caboodle, perhaps to offset his own childhood and the flighty and flirtatious nature of his mother who worked f/t and spent a lot of time doing amateur dramatics and bar work (family business). And now that it would seem she had an affair when H was about 12………. it kind of makes sense him wanting me as a SAHW&M, setting up the businesses at home for me to run and now wanting the normalcy of what he felt we did have – and his security – by getting a couple of dogs. Enthusing and agreeing that the time was right and a house isn’t a home without dogs. Blah, blah. But he has said that he will not form attachments and we will deal with the problem one way or another and move them on. I think he might be in KISA mode.
Have a fun filled weekend – does everyone else have Monday as a national holiday too?
[This message edited by UKgirl at 7:51 AM, May 27th (Friday)]
Speaking of food! (UKgirl, skip this part!)
I had a slight over-reaction (maybe, or maybe not) to something this morning, handled it relatively well with WH. It involves something that I have been asking him to (not) do for... oh... 13 years: Please close your mouth while you chew. The sound of spit mashing with food in someone's mouth makes me nauseous (literally). In the past, I have asked and asked and asked WH not to chew with his mouth open, and have even picked up my plate and left the room when I could not stand it any longer. WH continues to chew with his mouth open. I've asked him a few times in the last several months but have basically given up. Boyo1 also chews with his mouth open and I remind him to close his mouth, too. This morning, Boyo1 was in the backseat of my car smacking away and when I asked him to close his mouth, he continued. I pulled over, looked him in the eye and said "BOYO1! Close! Your! Mouth! When! You! Chew!" Then I stewed about that for a while... blah blah blah... then WH called about something and I told WH the pulling-over story and said that the sound makes me nauseous. He responded "Yeah, it doesn't bother me at all." I said I know it doesn't because he does it all the time. Then I said that I've asked many times over many years for him to stop, and I'm done asking; that if he doesn't care about my feelings about this that's fine (shouldn't have said it in that way); from now on if he and Boyo1 insist on continuing to chew with their mouths open regardless of my feelings about it, that I'm simply going to pick up my food and go sit in the dining room where I can enjoy my meal.
(deeeep breath in)
He had nothing at all to say about that.
I'm feeling slightly FU at him about a few things at the moment and need to get a handle on myself. No alcohol fo sho.
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 10:01 AM, May 27th (Friday)]
I hope everyone has some fun in the sun.
My W of 20+ years wants to be able to have an intimate relationship with me. Her hope is to love me some day. How fucked up was I to live two decades with someone who did not love me. A roommate who resented how I made her feel, and was too ashamed to let me know the real her.
I have a lot of anger and sadness. She takes it as destiny she will become "normal" and we will live happily ever after. I am less and less sure. There are some big issues ahead, like the split between her family and me. The anger I still feel at times over her As, and the opportunities when she could have ended them. The TT, and I am sure there are significant things (other OM, sex with bil) I do not have proof of. How can loving her be a good or healthy thing?
Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with you all the last week.
Please forgive the long post but I need to share.
FWH has gone to the movies with the children. (We are up to visit them for the weekend and for me to see my EMDR lady). I suggested he go as I have lots of paper work to do for school and he did. I was a little disappointed he didn't argue and he will probably come home and say "The movie was great but I should have stayed with you". Sound familiar? Do what you like and then apologise later and it's all OK. Isn't it????
I wish he had argued - at least a little. I hope I am not falling back into old habits - always thinking of him and putting my own feelings aside.
I don't think that he has remembered that today is our antiversary. And I will not remind him. I found out exactly 1 year ago what he had been up to. I waited a little over a week before I told him I knew while I got my ducks in line.
My mother's funeral was on the 26th and he had been a fucktard for ages. I was feeling really down and because I had been so busy with mum in hospital I could not remember if I had paid the phone bill (and couldn't find it). So went online (which I hadn't done for years) to check. Saw 81 local phone calls!!! Shocked - as I am lucky to make 2 or 3 a week!!!!
You can only get itemised numbers on online bills so I clicked the appropriate place to check who he had been phoning. Even at this point I did not suspect an A. I saw 3 numbers called repeatedly which I didn't recognise. I checked back as far as I could (12 months) and saw them sometimes several times a day and late in the evening. I checked our personal phone book and my mobile. No sign of these numbers. I then brought up an online calendar and noticed that all the suspicious calls were on weekdays around 9am when I had left for work. I used my bank records to check the weekend and late evening calls. These showed me that he made these when I was out of town for some reason. I felt sick and began to suspect.
I stayed cool and spent every moment alone over the next few days literally going through the phone book looking for the numbers because we don't have reverse directories in Australia(fortunately as we live in a country area it is only about 1.5 inches thick - but still a mind boggling task!). Luckily OW1's name starts with C. I found her but the number listed two initials- she was married!!!! I rang the number and a woman answered. I hung up. What to do??? I then thought of a VAR and went and bought one. Hit pay dirt very first day but when I checked it wasn't OW1's number he called and he was telling THIS woman he loved her, talking dirty with her and talking about lots of things to do with her farm and her family. I was SO mad. I spent a week investigating- identified her and found out lots about her. He continued to call her (and she him) daily when I wasn't at home and he spent a weekend with her when I escaped to the children and told them what he had been up to.
Anyway when I confronted him I didn't let on I knew about the other two numbers. At this point I still didn't know if they were OWs.
Anyway he begged to stay and I let him. Cried, screamed, swore, threw things and even hit him a number of times over the next two weeks. Repeatedly begged him to tell me if there had been others. He swore repeatedly that there had not. Finally I got him via the VAR talking to OW1. He was telling her all about me finding out about OW3 and how tough things were for him. At some point in the conversation (I could only hear 1 side) he said "No, she has no idea about you or name (OW2)"
My world collapsed. I called him at work and told him I knew about the other 2 and to come home and pack his bags. He came home begged forgiveness blah, blah, blah and ......here I am.
I hope you don't mind dear friends. I just needed to write it all down. I am happy to say that although my eyes filled I did not shed a tear while I wrote that.
I had another EMDR session this morning and it was once again very good. The sessions aim to help you to remember, visualise, imagine etc without the pain and to logically analyse your feelings, perceptions, fears etc. It really is helping.
Imagine this - I can now picture him in bed affectionately cuddling and talking "nice" to OW2 and feel NOTHING!!!!!!No hurt, no anger - NOTHING!!!! And my therapist has told me this is permanent!!! It truly is amazing.
It is quite strange letting go of the emotions. At first I was not sure if I wanted to let go of the hurt and the anger. I was a little afraid of what the outcome would be. Would I be doing a kind of rugsweeping? Would I lose all feelings for him as well? Yep - it was quite scary! But I think this is the right thing for me.
So this is where I am at after 12 months. I will continue to try R for as long as I feel like it. Do I love him??? I don't know. I don't think I even care much whether I do or not. I am staying in the relationship for me. For now it is all about me. I am trying to be happy. I am trying to decide if being with him I CAN be happy. One day maybe I will feel differently. One day I may say "Stuff it" and tell him to leave. Or one day I may be able to say I DO love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. Right now..... I just don't know.
Love you all. Thanks for all you have done to help me survive this first 12 months.
The lying and TT are awful. I try to wrap the lying up into the same package as the A, but it just seems like salt in the wound.
How fucked up was I to live two decades with someone who did not love me.
NO NO NO NO YOU WERE NOT 'FUCKED UP'!!!!!!!
You were loyal and faithful and tried to make your marriage work. But like all of us you were fighting a losing battle with a spouse who was not totally committed.
Our Ms are now NEW. They may still be fucked up but they are NEW marriages and the rules are new. We get to rebuild a relationship with our FWs if we can and if WE WANT to. At present I WANT to but I can't say I am fully committed. But I will TRY. We are all TRYING.
It is Ok if we feel all is not good at times. It is OK if we mourn our dead (never existed???? imaginary????) marriages. But they are dead. It is sad. It is so so sad. It is very sad that we didn't get the real marriages we dreamed of when we were kids. But now we have to deal with the marriages we have now. TODAY. Or maybe decide we don't want the marriage we have TODAY.
Please stop being hard on yourself.
She said she wants to want more, to want me, but all her life she has not wanted to depend on anyone.
And this attitude to led to.....?????? Sorry but I want to slap her. So she doesn't want to depend on anyone? What does she want?
She takes it as destiny she will become "normal" and we will live happily ever after.
How does she define happily ever after and normal?
I'm sorry. You have more patience than me. It should be about you.
But, most of my energy is spent worrying/preparing/dreading talking to my kids about it.
Honey it is tough but I am a bit like NJgal and Tryn. I think in the long run you will find it is not as bad as you thought. My kids have not said much about how they feel about FWH. Their relationship with him had not been great for some time (Probably since he started with his OWs). If anything it is a little better now. Like M33 I was a bit hurt at how quickly they seemed to "get over it".
But I also think there are a number of things in play. Maybe they now realise that his neglect of them and crankiness with them was not about them at all. But about his As and his guilt. My therapist has helped me to realise that his attitude towards me was not about me. Maybe they have reached that conclusion on their own - that his neglect and crankiness was not about them???.
Your kids will be sad for you but will be an enormous support in the future. I met a young girl recently whose dad cheated and left her mum for the OW. She said to me "I still love my dad but I don't think I can ever forgive him for what he did to mum. My brother and sister and I still see him often but want nothing to do with OW. We also keep a close eye on mum - so does the rest of the family. If anything it has brought us closer to mum and each other."
Dday was almost 2 years ago for her mum.
One of the things I thought of was that if the kids didn't share my outrage, I would be kind of mad.
I wouldn't say mine were outraged. They were more sad and disappointed. It must be such a hard thing for kids to process. They will I think come to this later. My DD told her father about 3 months after I told them that she would refuse to speak to him ever again if he cheated again. Told him if he wanted to leave me that was Ok but that she'd never have anything to do with any OW in future because of his cheating and that if she found out he left me for an OW she'd cut him off too!!!! (love that girl!!!)
"I'm outta here"
Hope you and your kids have a great weekend.
"Look buddy, this dude won't listen to me and he's being abusive to me and our kids and I'm at my wits end so if you can't get this guy to listen to me then I'm outta here because I'm at my wits end with this guy and have completely given up hope."
I am so glad he seems to be listening to you now.
Essentially, I have 3 things to say to IC (1) This is how WH behaves, are you sure you have him on the right medication (2) WH is abusive and it has to stop (3) WH's behavior both historically and since Dday isn't really the behavior of a person who wants to be married. It's the behavior of a person who wants to live what tryn calls the "married but single lifestyle."
When is he seeing him? Soon I hope.
I just want him to be fully aware of WH's behavior since Dday -- spending $65K we can't afford on a new boat, being abusive, ruining all my holidays, How long it took him to go NC with XHSGF, etc. As well as his historical pattern of behavior -- drinking, drugs, needing little sleep, infidelity, spending crazy amounts of money, mood swings, violent outbursts,
Yes you have put up with enough shit. I hope you detail all of these to his IC. He still has so much to deal with and it sounds like his meds need changing ASAP.
Hey all! Heading to the beach for the weekend in a few hours. Can't wait! My kids LOVE the beach...
Hope you have fun.
Your DD will have a wonderful time in France. I teach French and have only been once but I can't wait to go back. One day I hope to take my kids. you should take yours when you can too. Try not to worry about her. She will come home full of great stories and eager to travel more. It is a real eye opener for kids.
we all need to write down at least one thing good either about someone else in the family or a really positive experience and every nite or so at the dinner table read them....
How is this going???
your kids are older now and its time pfm took a turn
Unless it's a BIG issue I'd like to see him make some mistakes. Might wake him up a bit?
what a wake up call it will be when manchild learns just how imperfect his dad truly was and is....not gonna be pretty...but hopefully we can build him up so that he has something which he can fall back upon when the ground gives way from him...
I suspect that because he is a clever kid he will quickly add 2 + 2 and realise that pfm's ridiculous expectations were not about him but about pfm's own inadequacies. How many times in life do weak people criticise others? I see it all the time at work. The most incompetent are the quickest to point out others mistakes. makes them feel better about themselves. I suspect manchild will see this. If not maybe you could point it out to him??
FWH and kids have just arrived home from the movies. BBL if I can
DS24, Navy pilot, comes in today for the weekend. DS17 has asked if we will tell his older brother about the A so that he doesn't have to try and keep secrets from his brother. Naturally, FWH has left on a trip so the big reveal will be left to me. I was going to put an angry face icon here, but honestly it doesn't make me as mad as I thought it would to have to talk to DS24 on my own about this mess. It will be a relief for him to know. I hate the lying part and I'm certainly not good at it. I don't know how DS24 will react...sigh....
ats - I agree with Laura, stop beating yourself up about what you did or didn't do in your M. As bad as you think you are/were....you NEVER cheated on your W. NOTHING you did justified her behavior. Yes, she has some sh** in her life, and has some pretty crappy stuff to deal with, but you're not part of the crappy part. She just doesn't have any idea how to cope with her past and thus she takes the path of least resistance which includes not being honest with you about her feelings. Take care of yourself....you deserve to be happy...really happy.
I know this will be a really hard day for you.
DS17 has asked if we will tell his older brother about the A so that he doesn't have to try and keep secrets from his brother.
I think you should. Your son will be very angry I know but Ds17 really needs this. He needs his older brother to lean on. I know it is so hard and you are so worried about the hurt DS24 will feel but I truly believe that in the long run it will be for the best. Don't be afraid to let him see how you feel when you tell him. Cry, vent, let it all out. He will appreciate the opportunity to hug his mum. To be there for you. It will help him to feel he is able to help you. DO NOT WORRY about the effect on FWH. If he came home and DS24 punched him out he would deserve it. If that is what is stopping you from telling DS24 then forget it. FWH will just have to "put on his big boy panties" and deal with it. Our FWSs have to really stepup and face what they hav e done to their WHOLE family. We BSs focus on how their infidelity has affected us but as time goes on I realise more and more the direct and ripple effects of their behaviour. They need to show remorse not just to us but to their kids as well if they really want R.
Thinking of you
Like you said... it should be all about you right now.
What is good for you?
And..if your husband is treating you well,behaving in a loving manner toward you and the children...then enjoy the present.
About the movies with the kids...I know how that goes...it's one of those damned if they do and damned if they don't situations that makes my husband crazy. I'll tell him that's OK for him to do soemthing then later feel a bit neglected or abandoned when he follows my suggestion.
I think its all a part of the trauma... and our loss of self esteem, anxiety, fears of abandonment.
Your husband thought he was doing a good thing by going to the movies with the kids...
and.. I also know about that feeling about not being quite sure about letting go of all of the negative emotions and memories. I think I still hold on to some of it because I fear that letting go of it all will somehow exonerate him completely, or cause me to forget to the point that I will not be able to prtect myself in the future etc.
all irrational thoughts because in the here and now re-living the traumatic events over and over is very damaging to us...to our psychological and physical well being....
so, trying to let go of all the negative triggers is a good thing-for us.
The idea of using EMDR for BS is relatively new thinking.
One pioneer in this is Dr. Ortman who wrote Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder.
What bothers me about her statement is that her idea of a perfect life now.... is to live on her own without you.
And her therapist was the one trying to convince her that was not what she wanted?
That would be so painful for me to me hear.
After all that you have endured in order to reconcile....really? this is what she thinks?
Do you believe this is truly the way she feels or does she just say dramatic things like this because she feels guilty and ashamed or is tired of peeling away the layers?
Of course you feel a lot anger toward her family, the OM and her for continuing the affairs....
The thing that helped me to get over all of the anger and grief was a very loving, supportive FWH. He was the one convincing me that we were meant to be together, that I was his life, that he could not imagine a life without me....
I was the one that was unsure...
he was not.
I am so sorry that your wife's psychological issues are holding her back from truly embracing the idea of reconciliation with you.
Thanks for he feedback. I can say YES to all you wrote. unfortunately I already had the "This is our antiversary day" convo with FWH and yes it was very upsetting. On the plus side I got to vent a little and he got it.
he's sitting across the table from me so can't write more. thanks for your response.
Your son will be very angry I know but Ds17 really needs this. He needs his older brother to lean on. I know it is so hard and you are so worried about the hurt DS24 will feel but I truly believe that in the long run it will be for the best. Don't be afraid to let him see how you feel when you tell him. Cry, vent, let it all out. He will appreciate the opportunity to hug his mum. To be there for you. It will help him to feel he is able to help you.
Gotta go...he just drove in....wish me luck!