(1) Today is a new day. Yesterday, you yelled and you're not proud of it. So today you make a different choice. Apologize for yelling if you feel like it, and then let it go. Not a big deal, really.
(2) Non-adult son going to a country where he has zero rights and your narcissist XWH can keep him there legally if he feels like it, giving NONE of you--not even DS--any recourse? Hell no. Bring the older DSs in on this one if you have to. The answer is hell no IMHO.
Okay, gators are now biting. Must run.
I often wondered how I could have been so stupid to not listen to my gut for all the years my H was having his LTA. There were those red flags that I was made to believe were all "in my head." I was making something out of nothing. etc.
Then I think about Maria and this OW was in her home, interacting with the family for all those years and she didn't know.
Good morning, nofun. I'm glad you're here. I was beginning to think I missed the ascention. (Or whatever that's called.) I had hot yoga last night and watched The Good Wife, so am feeling pretty good today. How about you?
I'm ok, I think this weather is killing me. If only the sun would shine here.
My H, for the first time, brought up his A and talked about how he thinks OW wanted him for his assets. He said she used him. I just listened but what I really felt like doing was punch the shit out of him. All this A shit just brings me down.
I was afraid the gators got everybody! I was going to comment about the lack of posts last night, but I suddenly lost my internet connection. Strange.
Rain, rain go away. We need to send that rain to Texas!
Hugs to the tribe.
yes its been very quiet in here lately...
i too watched the good wife last nite, love this show...and i loved loved loved that alicia finally hooked up with will....
manchild's girlfriend broke up with him yesterday, she said he needs to get himself in order personally after his suicide talk....
smart girl....manchild claims he would have broken if off with her too that he was thinking the same thing...i know this i a bold faced lie....he seems to be taking it in stride and thankfully it happened before he has ic yesterday.....and he says he told the therapis about it...
he seems normal, but then again thats not unusual since i believe he is a rug sweeper about his own issues much like pfm....if aint in his face it does not exist..
maria and arnold:
i saw this womans picture this am....and her name that she goes by is the same as #1 as is her age.....if her son has the same name as possible pfm oc i may just have to scream....
Nofun: I know it hurts like hell that your WH is telling you these things, but it's also a good sign that he feels "safe" to tell you and thus will feel closer. It's just that we feel why do we have to go through all this pain for something they have done!!!
Miracle: I think it's part of a teen boy not to let anyone know how they feel about a breakup. He must put up a show of bravado. But, we must be grateful to his gf, she knew the right thing to do and told you DD about the talk of suicide.
Our kids will show traits of both parents, and especially with boys, unfortunately we will see thier father's traits. I see a lot of WH's traits in DS16, although DS16 is soooo very different from WH too. It can be maddening.
I do see, though, the best of my xWH's traits in DS31. That was his house the pic was taken in. A house he bought a few years ago by himself and gutted and redid by himself and xWH helped with the labor. There are good qualities in our WS's. That's what attracted us to them. We can just pray that our children will take the best of us and the WS.
Unfortunatel, I think sometimes my oldest DS has the worst of both of us!!
As for me, I'm more calm now. Thank you everyone for the reality checks. It's unfortunate that I need them. It's like I don't have a measurement to hold it up to. More things to discuss with IC today. I'm going to see if DS16 will come with me.
Love to the tribe.
don't let your child go over there. Remember what your STBXWH said about trying to take away OW's kids.
Ok... so who knew miracle and I were married to AAAHHH-Nold?
BTW -- I know I'm no super fox, but I'm still going to say that his OW is fugly. http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/entertainment-eonline/20110518/b242558/
Yet another "affair down".
Of course, I've been thinking maybe WH didn't affair down and I just suck rocks -- either way, dude still made me a promise.
But, back to AAAHHH-nold: he married rich, pretty Maria Shriver, pretty much the U.S. equivalent of a Duchess, and he screwed that up. Hey, he's rich and famous and egotistical so it probably won't ever really sink in for him, but he's an idiot.
Arnold wants to R. It's my bet he had a LTA since she worked for them for so long.
[This message edited by trynhard at 2:06 PM, May 18th (Wednesday)]
Of course, I've been thinking maybe WH didn't affair down and I just suck rocks -- either way, dude still made me a promise
Ummm..... yes, your WH did affair down. And, even when the OW is very pretty, got a lot of things goingfor her, etc. they are still affaring down in my book because there is something seriously wrong with someone who is willing to accept a relationship on the kind of terms associated with an A. It's just not the kind of thing that you necessarily notice on the surface.
Rushing to leave for ANOTHER conference so got no time.
Thinking of you honey. Take care of yourself and don't let dh get you down
BTW -- I know I'm no super fox, but I'm still going to say that his OW is fugly
She sure is. Poor Maria. We all know how she feels but she also has to deal with the world knowing.
Hugs to all. May be able to chat tonight from my hotel room.
it still boggles my mind how these lta vermin could live with so many lies....the acting jobs all of our ws's have pulled off is ocsar worthy at the very least....
poor maria, i feel for her in a big way...to have had this woman there on daily basis in her face....the betrayal is deep.....
as far as her having to do this publicly...on one hand its easier knowing you don't have to tip toe around it, if you want to scream or whatever you dont have to make excuses why you are feeling the way you do...but for someone in the public the way she is...i would not want the constant barrage of questions, speculation...and everytime i turn on the tv, the radio or read a paper...there is my life, my pain always there in my face, with no hope of escape....
its one thing when its out and your friends and family can rally around you giving support...quite another when you cannot escape it for a minute....no matter what you watch on tv, there is always some kind of announcement for another program at another time promising details of something you yourself may not have the details for....no matter what you listen to on the radio...same thing...and wherever you go...papparazzi shooting pictures of you in your turmoil, throwing questions at you....throwing you information that you may or may not have and then putting you on the spot...and then having your teenagers deal with this at the same time....
then for your poor youngest son.....he and your love child being the same age and days apart in birth.....that poor kid...both kids actually...the love child who never had his father the way his half siblings had....and the half siblings...having to deal with all who they thought their dad was....
i can see how far i have come in my perspective of all of this......how far i am from that raw pain....as much as my pain is still there, that rawness praise the heavens is no more....even with the new surprise of his new friend....the pain is there but its not that raw pain....the one where you want to crawl back in your bed and never see the light of day, the one where you don't know how to pick yourself up to go to the bathroom never mind go on with living life....the pain is there, yes, but that rawness of when youfirst learned of the betrayal and how deep it is.....no....almost like we are primed for whatever comes next at this point...
miracle house....lots of hormones lately seemingly out of control on the testosterone side....my dd is preparing to go to france next week...
in a couple of weeks is a sweet 16 on pfm's side of the family...it will be the first time for us seeing his parents since before d-day, first time seeing his sisters too.....not looking forward to seeing all the evil.....and if this child was not sick i would not go....but she is sick and i will do right for her.....and i also will leave if they do or say anything out of line...so i have my back up plan of escape if the need arises...my sil, pfm's brother's wife...also a bs....is also not looking forward to this...the 2 of us at least have each other....all of our boys know nothing of their dad's total betrayals...but do know about their grandparents and aunts and one uncle....gonna at the very least im thinkin goin to be an interesting nite....and a xanax nite too....
best part is i got a hot hot dress to wear...they are all overweight and i know seeing my figure will piss them off...actually anything ME pisses them off....and certainly anything good for or on me ....and more interesting is none of them know about what pfm did....only the the brother married to the bs sil.....
if you were able to follow all that i think you deserve some kind of metal btw....this family should have been a daytime soap.... ....i personally would love to kill them each off countless times....bringing them back to do it again and again....
i am hopin the quiet in this house is due to good and not evil...
I guess I've wanted to believe for a long time that my FWW's LTA wasn't any harder to get over than any other infidelity but I've finally begun to realize that this just isn't going away very soon. We will hit antiversary #2 in a little over a month. Our 30 year wedding anniversary is also this month and I can't even bring myself to take her out to dinner or celebrate it in any other way. It feels like everything died 6 years ago when she started her LTA.
She had a 4 yr LTA with a co-worker which I found out about almost 2 years ago. We've since had good times and bad but I feel utterly lost right now and the fact that it's approaching the 2 year mark is depressing me even more. I just want to crawl into a hole somewhere and die.
Has anyone else had this happen? I need to know if this is a normal part of the process or not but I need to hear it from other LTA survivors. I feel like I'm sinking further down all the time.
there is an old saying
long term affair = long term recovery
they (experts and people who have been through it) say that it can take anywhere from 2-5 years to "get over" such a betrayal.....that is when the betrayal is not long term...for us its a bit different and is quite clouded over with years and years of lies, for some of us entire marriages.....and its hard to wrap your mind around such a betrayal.....half the time we are just merely existing, moving from one thing to another, and then there are the times when it hits you like a ton of bricks....and you cannot process all of what needs processing, it can be so overwhelming...and then begins the questions of how you couldn't "see" it, for all those years how could you not see it and how could my ws do this day in and day out...and then come the memories of times spent and now you begin to question those memories...question what (s)he was really doing....i could go on and on.....the point i making quite badly is that on the lta end....its absolutely overwhelming in way too many ways....
what is she doing to help you through this? what are you doing together to get through this?
i hope you are both in ic and mc....it takes alot of work and the work needs be done by both in order to succeed...or at least succeed happily...
we have had a few members who have moved on to have good marriages.....it is very possible to have a good and happy marriage....i am not one of those though...so sorry about that....
njgal, tryn, dip, lovinlife and forgivenotforget are among those that are all in reconcilliations that are successful....all are in different stages of successful reconcilliation
we have a few who are in active reconcilliation....in its working stages
and we have a few like me who will eventually divorce at some point in time...
I feel like such an idiot still going over this stuff at almost 2 years but here goes.
My FWW is doing most things correctly. I say most because we just ran into a big hurdle this past week. She is remorseful I believe. She is going to IC and we are going MC (same counselor for both). Last week I awoke to her "sneeking" something out of our bedroom while she thought I was asleep. It was just cotton balls because she was going to paint her nails. Now in 30 years I have never once said anything about painting her nails being vain or trying to attract attention by doing that. I have, since DDay, told her that she dressed to attract mens attention. She had told me that she dressed specifically to attract the OM. Now she says she constantly examines everything she does to determine what her reasoning is behind it. This is exactly what I had hoped for. Then she said she hid the cotton balls because she didn't want me to judge her. Again, I was floored because I have never said anything about her nails but I was "going to judge her" all of the sudden so she acted like a 6 year old and hid it from me. I waited 2 days to see if she would bring it up but of course she didn't even remember it.
We discussed this whole thing in MC the other night and the MC was perplexed as to why she would hide something and explained to her that I'm going to have to start over on the trust issues again. She doesn't seem to understand why and when I told her that if she was willing to lie for something this stupid she would be willing to lie at anything. I told her I do not believe I'll ever really know the truth about anything. She can cover lies like no one I've ever seen, except of course her father and mother who were both compulsive liars. Wish I'd have known that before I said I do.
Now we are barely speaking, my doing, and I told her I think she should leave for a while. I said that because every time I say I don't trust her she throws "what do you want then, do you want me to leave" in my face so this time I said yes. Suddenly she wants to discuss her leaving "calmly" and keeps asking me if that's what I want. This BS is killing me and I just feel like I'm at the end of my rope today. Thanks for letting me talk.
ok...the cold hard truth...most if not all of our ws's are broken people, they are people who do not know how to do right, were never taught correct and moral values, either by example or by word.....so as much as it sucks and seems unfair, to a certain extent the bs needs to guide them.....
there comes a point in time that you need to decipher between relationship issues and affair issues....and there seems to be a direct connection sometimes....discerning between the issues may also be key....getting to the heart, the raw emotion will help turn the key to open the door....
does your wife also read books on the subject? and has she figured out the why she did it?
until you feel like she "gets it" you will never be able to move forward...and that is a hard concept for some if not most ws's....the ws often times feels like i am doing everything i can, why can't (s)he see that and move on, i learned from my mistake, i got burned and i won't do that again....and in that kind of thinking they cannot possibly see that if they do not dig it could happen again and we will not feel safe....its all about us feeling safe...the ws has to earn trust, it is no longer freely given, but it can be earned.....
and stop feeling like an idiot....just look at how long so many of us have been here.....its a really hard process, its long and its work...and even when divorce is the outcome, healing takes time and healing takes alot of work on all parts...and when you have to heal yourself it can take longer, because you don't get the answers you need to move on...at least in your case she is there and she is working with you even though sometimes it feels like she is working against you...
gotta run, one more fast thing...stop threatening on both side for leaving...that will get neither one of you anything but defensiveness....put that aside, you both know its an option, but i hope its a last option....
there will be others who will think that sometimes they have to leave in order to hit bottom so that they are ready to do the work and come back....its all an individual choice and need.....i personally think its easier to work through it together then apart..unless (s)he has some issues to work out and you cannot reconcile until it happens like getting sober....
gotta go get my son now, will check in again later...
Now we are barely speaking, my doing,
Jollum, Do you really want to to R? If so, this is my words to you. Forgive your W.
Let me help you understand what that is and means. Let me tell you what you are going to have to do. All of this will make you feel so much better too.
What is forgiveness.
1) Being aware of what someone has done to you and still forgive
2) Choosing to keep no records of wrong
3) Refusing to punish
4) Not telling what they did
5) Being Merciful
7) It is an inner condition (this is the hardest for me)
8) It is the absence of bitterness
9) Forgiving God for this
10) Forgiving ourselves
Make sure you think very hard about these. Maybe it is time for you to stop going to IC? Why keep bring this stuff up and punishing your W? Just something to think about.
First… forgiveness is a choice… It is not a feeling… You can make your brain do these things to help your W.
1) Make the choice to forgive
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did.
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt
5) Let them feel good about themselves
6) Protect them from their greatest fears
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next
8) Pray for them
Make a commitment to yourself to do every one of the above. In time your wife will feel better about herself and you will feel better about yourself.
You want you Marriage? This is what is a good marriage. Your are going to need to study the below, show them to your W. Commit you will do every one of them. Then DO IT to the best of your ablity.
Studies that show what people in healthy marriages do:
- Shared Spirituality
- Have a support system of other couples who strongly believe in Marriage
- Frequently Affirm each other
- Spend quality and quantity time together
-Communicate and Listen easily and well
- Approach conflict constructively as a learning experience
- Have a mutually satisfying sexual relationship
- Are open to change
- Have s sense of commitment and faithfulness to one another
- Have unity based on shared values and goals
- Have a sense of Play and humor
- Have a deep sense of Trust
- continue to experience Forgiveness
- Value service to each other
You have to turn this thing around. What you need to do is all the desirables.
These are Desire Builders
- Positive attitude
- “Present and Future” Focused
- Cooperative attitude
- Positive “self Talk”
These are Desire destroyers
- Withdrawal (You are being undesirable!)
- Negative attitude
- Continueing Negative behaviors
- No communication
- No reliance on God or lack of spirituality
- Holding a grudge’
- Name calling
- Negative “self talk”
- “Must win” Attitude
- Living the past
OK, I am living proof that you can make it through this. I wanted to kill myself. I wanted to kill the OM.
I feel good about me. If my W wants another man today, that is ok. I can acknowledge and be Ok that she loved someone else for 8 years. I’m ok with that. I can say it easily. My wife was in love with another man. She had a very close relationship with her lover. It felt good to her and she wanted it, did it and enjoyed it all. She betrayed me and hid her feelings. It is what it is and I cannot go back. In all honesty, I changed. She changed and we have a good relationship. We treat each other very well today. I still choose to keep my relationship going because that is my choice. And you know what, my boundaries keeps me aware. If she doesn’t want me, that is her choice. I will hurt and move on.
I sure hope you finds something in my post.
[This message edited by trynhard at 3:44 PM, May 19th (Thursday)]
I'm with jollum though...having a tough time.
Welcome jollum - it's been almost 2 years since dday for me also....aghhh...