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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 24
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, April 30th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't worry about the expense.
What I keep saying since d-day is how expensive it is to separate/divorce.
I know that when my husband and I separated he was trying to really economize and not cost us a lot of money but..even then.. his apartment and other living expenses were costing around $2,000 per month..so in 6 months the LTA cost us around $12,000 extra plus the $1,000 I lost to the divorce attorney. I had to give him a $4,000 retainer...and then when I withdrew the divorce complaint he kept the $1,000.
Then all of the money that we spent on IC and MC...eventhough we have good health insurance it was not covered 100% and there were deductibles etc.
so...spending some money on workshops etc. not such a big deal in the scheme of things.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:15 PM, April 30th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you njgal. Your perspective really helps. I tell myself the same thing, that a S/D costs even more...but I've always been uncomfortable spending a large amount of money on myself. But considering what FWH has done, I kind of feel like I need to do this for me, $$ be damned!

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for helping me!! You guys are so wonderful!

I have tried in the past to just email him, but he still calls. I tried to just text him, but he still calls. He is not one to text or email. I usually don't answer my cell if he calls. If he calls the DS's cell phones, he asks if I am there and they hand thier phone to me. I don't want to put the ds's in the middle of it by telling them to lie to their father that I'm not there.

So I often get stuck talking to him and try my best to focus on the kids and whatever finances.

He still wants to cake eat. I still want to try to keep him co-operative because of the finances. <sigh>

Strongish, good news abou the workshop. You deserve to go for yourself. There is no price on getting yourself healthy!!!

Laura, the EMDR sounds hopeful. I pray that it works for you.

Miracle: No, it's YOU, not the house. Remember that

Allgood: thank you. I hope you are taking care of yourself.

NJgal, thank you for your kindness and giving me much needed reality checks!

Ats: I have tried that "recording" technique on both my mother and WH in the past. They are too smart for it, and really get mad!! But they keep at it until they push buttons.
Ats, try to step back a little and give yourself a break. I think you will know what to do in time.

I have to let go all the way, and I think I am really ready to do so emotionally.

I love you all!!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 2:50 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Just popping in to to let you know about OW3's Karma bus.

As parents we so often say things like I'd rather it happened to me than my children. I'm sure OW3 is saying that right now.

FWH came home from work this afternoon and I knew something was up. It took a while but he finally told me that she was working today and while he was on her floor doing a job she came and spoke to him. She told him that her son is in jail. FWH asked "Why?" and she said he was arrested for drugs and "something" - FWH didn't know/remember what - and that he has to go to court this week. FWH replied "That's no good" and walked away. It must be serious. If he's "in jail" now then he hasn't been able to get bail = serious.

FWH then went on to to describe some of the conversations he had with her about her son and his drug use during the A. I listened politely and tried to appear interested but unconcerned - but it did upset me. I have been constantly complaining about his "I don't know"s and "I don't remember"s, so thought it best to just let him talk. But it was so hard. I need to encourage honesty and transparency so have to keep mum I think.

But here's the problem. I would have preferred FWH not to have had the conversation at all. But OW3 initiated it and there were others present. FWH said he didn't want to appear rude in front of others.

I told him as gently as I could (he does get defensive) that it worries me that she came to him looking I believe for sympathy and that perhaps she is "fishing". He said quite adamantly that he is not interested in her and never will be again.

He once again offered to move away and/or get another job. Both sound attractive given our sich but I have too much to lose by leaving here (a great job and friends and family) and I am sick of the A crap taking important things from me. To be honest I think I'd rather lose him than all of these. I also think that if he wants to cheat again he will do it anywhere with anyone.

As for OW3's Karma bus, I am trying to be ladylike and dignified but the vindictive bitch in me is saying "YAY"

Strong

Definitely spend those $$$. Your sanity and peace of mind are priceless!!!

BTW I LOVE your MC!!!

Nell

WH read another couple of pages in the Help Your Spouse book. He came to me to tell me that he FINALLY gets (thanks to the graph in the book) that his A has taken a toll on my self-esteem, security, etc. So. Good movement.

YAY for Mr Nell. This could be the beginning of something great. FWH mentioned the other day that he should read it again. YAY for him too. I took a peek while he was at work and he has highlighted lots that I approve of.

Honest

Thinking of you honey. You are getting there. The strategies to avoid talking to him may not be working but it is SO GOOD that you are using them. It shows your "head" is in the right place now. So YAY for you too.

Love to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:37 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP

Thinking of you tonight. Hope she stays in. You have a pm

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest:

Tough crap that he doesn't text or email. Seriously.
You are not asking your boys to do anything that any other s/d parent is asking a child to do. They can hand the phone to you, you walk out of ear shot, then say, is this an emergency? ONLY accept a yes or no answer, if he's past 1 sentence and you haven't either heard a Yes or No or something of an emergency nature, then just say "Ok. There's no reason for us to be speaking. I've got to go."
THEN HANG UP BEFORE HE EVEN BREATHES!
Rinse & repeat as often as necessary.

Now, of course, this will get him royally pissed, so you really need to finish up that conversation with him about the finances asap & follow up with the paperwork.

In the meantime, please go back to school. I think it will help you feel less vulnerable financially and even if your prospects about future employment are as bleak as you have said, it will still get you out of the house meeting new people, if you go at night, it's probably going to be a lot of adults starting over as yourself, and it's something to help you gain your confidence and self-esteem back.

(Kid gloves here): What steps forward have you made since he left? Or are you still repairing the damage caused by his last visit? Set a deadline for yourself. I know it's easy to let time fly by when you have so much on your plate, that's why you should pick a date on the calendar and stick to it.
Personally, I would enroll in school asap for the Fall. Let him pay for it. Write a check, put it on a credit card, whatever. YOu do not need to discuss it with him.

I probably have more, but I just hit a caffeine low and need to refill.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura:

I would have preferred FWH not to have had the conversation at all
.

My thoughts exactly.

I get it that other people were around, but there should be an expectation that he do something to minimize the contact. First, would be to find an excuse to walk away, otherwise, if he must remain present and not "look" rude in front of others, he can certainly refrain from actively participating in the conversation. No follow up questions. I'd be royally pissed, but you were right to let him talk.
(Aside: do people at the hospital know of the affair? If so, I think rudeness is perfectly fine.)
Also, I didn't like that this conversation caused him to share a whole bunch of stuff with you about conversations about OW. Would worry me that he's reminiscing in a sense, maybe not positive, but thinking about their time together.
I don't know. I could way off base on that last piece.
Do you go on the thread about working with coworkers? Maybe there's some better suggestions there.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura: It is so hard to listen to WH talk about OW, but he is confiding in you and feeling safe to do so, and that's a good sign. I agree with Allgood, that the OW is fishing, not perhaps to get another PA, but the EA she had with him and she felt she had discussed these problems with her son with him before and wanted someone, anyone to talk to about this. She has to keep her boundaries. She has to know that your WH is off limits to her period, amen.

I think this is an opputune time to discuss with WH how he can maintain NC under these circumstances. Do these OW's need to be told again about NC by the BOTH of you? Geez.

Allgood, I know what you said is the next step, but because WH is a NPD, I am afraid that he will stop the finances and be retaliatory to get his way. I am walking on eggshells.

Your suggestion is VERY good for me. Give myself a timetable. You are absolutely right, I am still healing from his last visit. Settihg goals even for each day is something I need to aim for.

I have to sever that emotional cord. WH wants to keep it and has it as a noose around my neck.

How are YOU Allgood? {{{{Allgood}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong: i agree with the others...the expense is nothing compared to the expense of a s/d or the expense to your emotional rollercoaster....YOU are worth every penny and then some...big time on the then some....


njgal: you are awesome....your posts are truly inspirational to all of us, even those of us not in r...


laura: karma is a bitch....but i gotta say this is taking me in both directions...on the one hand i am lovin that he is telling you everything which to me is the most important direction...lets face it our ws's are smooth operators, they can meet anyone anywhere doing anything...but the FACT that he TALKING to you about it is truly inspiring.....yes it sucks to hear it all, but its so much better to hear about it from him, along with reassurances that she means nothing....had mr nogood done this with allgood they probably would be planning some kind of summer vacation instead of a summer of separation....

on the other hand is the hurt youfeel knowing that he didn't reject her outright....and then of course ran home to tell you about it....and this is not only understandable but hopefully a possibility for the future...this is what he needs to aspire to.....and you keeping mum was smart, really really smart...this was one place i was never so smart...i have a really big mouth, a sarcastic one at that making me a not safe place for pfm to spill his guts...this is one of my few regrets...but its not a regret that tells me things would be different if i had because pfm still should have done whatever he could and that would include telling me everything without the trickle truth....risking it all, and trusting me with who he was and is....and that is something mr laura is giving you....sick as it sounds its a gift...he is baring all, stripping himself down and allowing himself to be vulnerable to you, trusting you with all that he is and was....

now the only thing in your post i was not clear about was how it came about that he started talking...did youhave to prod, and how hard...cause i would also hope that prodding needn't be necessary...so if you did that is also something he needs to aspire to, coming straight to you without any prods and spilling it all....


honest:

the kids do not have to lie nor be in the middle...when you know its him, either do what allgood says or start giving new reasons you cannot get on the phone..

-"tell daddy i will speak to him later i cannot talk to him now"

-"tell daddy my hands are dirty and i will talk to him later"

-"i cant talk to your dad right now, it will have to wait til later"

"i have to go to the bathroom, tell him to text me later"

-i am on my way out the door and i cant be late"

-"now is not a good time for me to talk to daddy, tell i will speak to him tomorrow"

"tell daddy if he want to speak to me he could call my cell, i don't want to tie up your phone"


the list is endless...he will get the message...


and i love what allgood told you about a deadline...you need to protect YOU and YOUR KIDS...go back to school while you can...and who knows...the job market sucks right now so it the perfect time to complete the education anyways while you don't have to fit it into a schedule with a job and definitely while he could pay for it....

i think once you are out there actually going to school and meeting all kinds of new people it will give you a sense of 'life'...something we feel so often was taken from us or drained from us...


nell: i will back off for now...i still feel like you are waiting for him to do right, and he i think is smart, he gives a little, very little to appease and in his mind to hopefully be enough...but i don't think he IS DOING as opposed to appeasing you....is he p/a....and again i know i could well be off base...it wouldn't be the first time nor the last...


allgood: im with honest...how are YOU??? and what are you doing for YOU...???inquiring minds want to know...

and do you have a plan of action re the kids and telling them about mr nogoods leaving....and what you will say to pretty much everyone....your families i am sure will be full of questions....it would be best to have answers ready when they pry, and they will pry...it will hurt just a tad less if you are prepared for it especially if you have answers ready...


miracle house:

my mom left me a mothers day card and it made me cry, it was one that said:

"to a beautiful daughter and a great mom"
inside

"even though you lead a busy life,
you still find the time
to be the caring daughter
you've always been...

just wanted to tell you
how much that means
and to wish you
a happy mothers day.

hope its filled with everything you enjoy"[/quote](and the part that made me cry some buckets)
in her own handwriting (mom HATES to write)

"p.s. me and the kids aer LUCKY to have YOU!!!"

mom is the picky type, takes a long time to pick out cards, she has to mean every word it says...and the fact that she hates hates writing on her own, almost phobically..and then to do just that....it means so much to me...so this was a soul feeding morning for me...


there is a song i adore...its a good one for those of us not in reconcilliation....by adele

"Rolling In The Deep"

"There's a fire starting in my heart
Reaching a fever pitch, and it's bringing me out the dark
Finally I can see you crystal clear
Go ahead and sell me out and I'll lay your shit bare
See how I'll leave with every piece of you
Don't underestimate the things that I will do

There's a fire starting in my heart
Reaching a fever pitch
And it's bringing me out the dark

The scars of your love remind me of us
They keep me thinking that we almost had it all
The scars of your love, they leave me breathless
I can't help feeling
We could have had it all
Rolling in the deep
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
You had my heart inside of your hand
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
And you played it to the beat
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)

Baby, I have no story to be told
But I've heard one of you
And I'm gonna make your head burn
Think of me in the depths of your despair
Making a home down there
As mine sure won't be shared

The scars of your love remind me of us
They keep me thinking that we almost had it all
The scars of your love, they leave me breathless
I can't help feeling
We could have had it all
Rolling in the deep
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
You had my heart inside of your hand
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
And you played it to the beat
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
We could have had it all
Rolling in the deep
You had my heart inside of your hand
But you played it with a beating

Throw your soul through every open door
Count your blessings to find what you look for
Turn my sorrow into treasured gold
You pay me back in kind and reap just what you sow

(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
We could have had it all
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
We could have had it all
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
It all, it all, it all
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)

We could have had it all
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
Rolling in the deep
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
You had my heart inside of your hand
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
And you played it to the beat
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)

You could have had it all
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)
Rolling in the deep
(Tears are gonna fall, rolling in the deep)
You had my heart inside of your hand
(You're gonna wish you never had met me)

But you played it
You played it
You played it
You played it to the beat. "

its got a great beat too!!

put this with jar of hearts and king of anything....3 really good songs...all make me cry and empower me at the same time...

(((tribe)))

(edited because i cant do quotey thingys today)(not to mention my hugs to the tribe gots in the middle of the lyrics )

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 1:56 PM, May 1st (Sunday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle,
Yes, among WH's issues are P/A-ness. And his comfort with his role as Rescuer in the Krugman Drama Triange (manipulation). And his extreme sense of self-interest. And his justifying and defensiveness.
And, yes, I am waiting for him to do right. I won't wait forever, or even probably much longer. Taking care of myself now and putting ducks where they belong as I go.

It's all good.

honest,
I know you're in a tight spot, just please make sure that you're keeping a clear head and making sure your own best interests are top of mind.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest, AGNG and Miracle

Thanks for your thoughts re NC. I'm sure there must be some people at the hospital who know but not many. He was pretty careful. He is a very "friendly" guy and any rudeness would have been remarkable. The problem for me is that I can push the NC with him (and them) but I think it would just make him less likely to tell me about contact which at times (because of work) is unavoidable. The contact does worry me but it worries me more that these types of conversations might continue in the future and he mightn't tell me if I react too much.

Would worry me that he's reminiscing in a sense, maybe not positive, but thinking about their time together.

When he told me about the discussions of OW3's son's drug problems he was quite unemotional. He could have been discussing a story he read in the newspaper. He never uses her name with me (as he knows I hate it) and the only reference to her was when he said "She told me once...." and "she was worried....". Before he told me about the conversation yesterday he also said "I wasn't going to tell you but.....". I think this is why I tried not to react.

the FACT that he TALKING to you about it is truly inspiring

I NEED him to be honest. This is his biggest fault. He has always lied to me rather than say something he knows will upset me - before, during and afters the As. When I found out I got very little info - mostly "I don't know...I don't remember..." I think for me the key to our R is him opening up and risking my tears or anger.It is one of the reasons I signed up for EMDR - so I can control my reactions.

He knows how I feel about NC. One of my dealbreakers is finding that there has been contact and he hasn't told me. So I am hopeful. You see in a way he HAD to tell me about the contact but I interpret the rest (telling me about their previous conversations) as a a bonus. He HAD to tell me about the contact but he didn't HAVE to share the rest. Yes it was VERY hard to hear but the pain was outweighed by the positive of him being honest KWIM??? Miracle actually described it well:

sick as it sounds its a gift...he is baring all, stripping himself down and allowing himself to be vulnerable to you, trusting you with all that he is and was

did youhave to prod, and how hard

No. We were sitting on the side veranda having a cup of tea. He has become very good at assessing my state of mind by expressions on my face. During a lull in the conversation he asked "What's wrong". I said "Nothing. I was just thinking about how much I like sitting here with you because I know that none of them did".(I bought a new table and chairs for this area after dday). He told me about the contact then.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Love

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all

Just dropping in quick again

FWH has left for work and I've got to get going to0.

Miracle

Loved your song. So sad but true.

We could have had it all

This phrase really struck a chord with me. Throughout the time he was in the As our relationship was pretty shitty - as was his with the kids. This is what has hit me the hardest. We could have had it all !!!! Until the trauma of DS's illness we had the "perfect" life - but FWH wasn't in it. He put his energy into his As rather than his family.

Sucks big time thinking of what we could have had!!!!

What I now need to do is stop focusing on this and focus on the future. I need to convince myself that there is nothing to be gained by that. My head knows it but my heart doesn't! I guess that's where forgiveness comes in!!

Love to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

laura: yes that phrase sticks in my craw too, when d-day hit one of the things i had yelled at pfm was he had the life of riley, an expression meaning the same of having it all....i used to tell him this all through our marriage, he was so bent on the small inconsequential shit and of course his foo was a huge huge issue between us....i didnt know at the time obviously that there was also an ow....an ow that he was in love with...

anyways laura: you still could have it all, and this is something you i hope at some point in time believe....njgal i think is beginning to feel it now....does it suck that your husband should have been like this from the getgo...of course it does, it sucks great big monkey eggs.....but the fact remains that if you both work at it and it is a joint effort you could still have that 'happy' marriage and have your happily ever after....and yes again it totally sucks what its taking to get there...and once you get to the point where you begin to feel safe if you could manage to let go of the past, just enough to enjoy your present i think you will find happiness and a relationship you should have had all along and the only thing that will be missing is that blind trust...that is shattered and beyond repair, once its gone it never can come back, but you COULD trust again...but this time it would be an earned trust, one that will be continuously earned and kept...

and yes laura, allowing him a safe place to speak i think is the key for you both....and it still sounds so warped....because you are the injured one who needs to be careful for him....when he should be the one being careful for you....but if you think about it our ws's, all of them are injured....lost boys and girls all stuck within their own individual issues....

nell: p/a i am learning has so many manipulations within their coping mechanisms...scary shit it is.....but once recognized explains so much...i still need to remind myself that alot of what pfm says and does is p/a...its taken me so long to understand some of the dynamics behind it...i still forget every now and then that he is p/a..and i try not to, because forgetting lets down my guard to what he does....to not put myself in the getting duped category again on pretty much every category...

between his p/a and his defeatest crap i find myself restraining myself from flinging anything and everything within my arms reach at him...including my kids, whom are all much bigger then me....

the other day i actually asked my mom out loud in front of him if i could hit him...her response..."go for it, what do i care"..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle

I love that song too.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura: You sound like you have a good handle on the whole NC/work dynamic thing. Overall, I think it was positive, I guess I am just thoroughly disgusted when I don't see a WS that is thoroughly disgusted with OW after Dday. Your story hits too close to home for me - having seen the pic of my H and OW at the Xmas party together. Could've just been idle chit chat, but I made it very clear to him that she' not a friend, she's someone who helped destroy our marriage & should be treated with disgust, not someone to even make polite conversation with. And. of course, he didn't tell me about it. Miracle is right, had Nogood used your H's approach, it would not have been a dealbreaker.

Honest: my last thoughts for today are that walking on eggshells is no way to live. At some point you have to make the leap of faith. To do nothing does not insulate you from harm. For one, on some level you recognize it's harming you, you just think the harm of moving forward with s/d will harm you & the kids more.
I don't agree.
Your emotional health is directly tied to moving forward to s/d. Furthermore, at some point, he may pull the plug himself & you will be ambushed.
Take some baby steps forward.

How am I?
I'm ok.
I got upset the other night & cried a bit - no more than 5 minutes & it was probably the 1st time I had cried in over a week.
Anytime I have good memories or see current behavior that is reminiscent of good memories, I just remind myself that is only a fraction of his personality. Thankfully my H has said and done some incredibly callous things during R which remind me that I'm on the only path that leads to happiness.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, May 1st (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't have a lot to add tonight (I'm up watching the crowd downtown celebrating us catching/killing Bin Laden) but I did want to mention to ATS that I read somewhere that 90% of the problems in a marriage are not solvable.

But you know, in the absence of deal breakers you're just tradingone set of problems for another with a different relationship.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:37 AM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, I get the "I like this because you never did it with HER" thing. There's one little thing that has always been a shared intimacy between WH and me (nothing TMI; I could do it in front of my parents), and I cried the first time I did it with him after DDay#1. He does it with me now when I'm having a hard time and he wants to comfort me. Sucks that THAT is the only thing I've got that's still special, but at least there's SOMETHING.

Allgood,
You're doing awesome-ly.

Ready for another week of FUN!!!

Hugs all around.
XO-Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We had another dreaded talk. Didn't get anywhere. Got the flowers and the apology card AGAIN. I'm sick of it already. He was still harping on "what about me?" I asked him to read the book by MacDonald...he raised his voice and said NO...I WON"T READ IT!!

So like Nell, I have to list my options. They all stink. I'm just really tired. Mentally exhausted. I don't know why I even bother.

IC said H has unrealistic expectations of what a M should be.

I told IC that I have thought about FOO and that what I came up with was that H's Father totally disrespected women and therefore my H disrepects women and I am concerned about my son.

I do not want to think about this; I am wearing my brain out. Maybe Retro is in order. One last ditch effort?

And Nell, I think you hit the nail on the head!!

Gotta run....sorry about everyone's struggles. Life seems so difficult at times. Hang in as they say...it will get better!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun: He apologized for saying he wanted a divorce? Is that what he said? I'm just a little confused. That's where I thought you had left off- he said enough & he's out. Now, he says he didn't mean it? Or something else?

IC said H has unrealistic expectations of what a M should be

I think I'm getting closer to acceptance.
Part of this is my realization that my H too, had unrealistic expectations of what a M should be. He also has unrealistic expectations of what it should look like after DDay.

I'm accepting that I'm not seeing his signs of struggle akin to mine is because he was never fully invested in this marriage, he didn't fight for it after DDay, when there was more reason to hope R would work, he's not going to fight for it now after 1 1/2 years of R & seeing how broken the relationship still is.

The epiphany is not going to happen.
I believe I've really accepted that.

Recently I started thinking about another couple, H had an A (not sure of length), they R'd for quite a while, had another kid, a year or 2 later, they split up. A few years after that, he's remarried to a beautiful girl. No looking back. Still involved with his kids, but no problem leaving W behind, no second thoughts.
That's the way it will be with us. H will be a good boyfriend. He's attractive & funny, fun to be with.
He won't be looking for anyone who's expecting more than just having a good time. He will be looking for someone like OW, someone like him. They will get on great & while I would love to think one day he'll regret the event of the last 3 years, I do not believe that will ever happen.
He's just not married with kids material.

Got to run.
Peace to all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, May 2nd (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

G' Morning Tribe,

nofun, I am sorry that your H is willing to buy flowers and say "sorry", but not willing to do the work to remove the need to apologize and buy flowers in the future. I suspect it is more than not wanting to read, but his realization of what the book will say to him. The issues he would have to face. I do not see Retro as benefitting you and your H. IF he read the book and was looking for solutions I think Retro could help, but he is not. Even if he did actively participate, Retro is about communicating needs and feelings, you would still be communicating (albeit more effectively) with a broken soul.

honesttoafault:

I am afraid that he will stop the finances and be retaliatory to get his way.

This is the source of his power. I know how much easier it is for all of us to post from afar that you must take steps to be independent, but you must. Any job or work can provide a cushion of money. I do not know if you really want to put up with the status quo for a couple of more years while you go back to school. What can you do in the next 6 months to move from where you are to independence? What happens if you D him? Not his meaningless words, but a real through the courts divorce?

Allgoodnamesgone,

I'm accepting that I'm not seeing his signs of struggle akin to mine is because he was never fully invested in this marriage…

I think this is more common than not in a WS, an intimacy issue that prevents full commitment to the M and other person. FWW always had one foot out the door, or put another way, wore an emotional body condom (both examples her words). To her, full emotional commitment would mean losing herself. Ironically, she is struggling now in IC to find herself. In the early months after dday, we would discuss how the M was not so bad for me as it was for her. She say this as proof that she was meeting my needs better than I was meeting hers. I think a bigger part was that I was fully invested in the M, she was always creeping around the edge wishing it would be better, but seeing the faults and being ready to protect herself.

Things are again better in the Atsenaotie household. We had a long sincere discussion Saturday night and hashed through the last week. When will I get to a point where I can hold my course emotionally when FWW withdraws to deal with her issues? In the past, I would rush in to try and “save” her or make things better, now I veer (sometimes sharply) into a 180 and feel the separation and disconnect growing.

What I said to her about her about her response to desired salary on a job she has applied for was only a small part of the crisis we experienced this last week. She has been feeling overwhelmed with triggers and reminders. The office for this new job she applied for is in the same town, and just around a long corner from last OM’s business. She and he would meet the area for lunch. Specifically this is where they were having a long lunch the day I broke my wrist and she would not return my phone calls. The agency FWW was fired from, where she and last OM met and travelled together at has been in the news, and people have been contacting FWW to talk about her time there.

Her black and white thinking does not apply just to me. From our discussion, she applies it to herself also. The discussion had many words like never, always, horrible, can’t forgive. She feels like she will never be normal, never be good enough for me. She is a horrible person who did horrible things to our M, herself, and me. She does not think she can ever forgive herself. Intellectually she knows this is not right thinking, but emotionally, this is how she feels. Our M is either perfect, or horrible, there is no middle ground for her emotionally. She also told me that the IC sessions are throwing her off balance for about 2 days each time. She spends a stressful day before preparing and thinking about what they will talk about, and then it takes has a day to recover and stop feeling so awful.

She also elaborated on some of my remaining questions. When I asked her, she talked about how she felt and why she did not leave me for first OM when she said she hated being with me, longed to be with him, and he was urging her to move in with him. I think she has convinced me she did not send any erotic photos to her BIL. Particularly a set of erotic photos I am aware of that last OM saw and had copies of. From our discussion, I am feeling less paranoid that I may not be DS18’s biological father. Finally, she told me that when she talked with DS15 about our relationship, and apologized to him for his having to live through our struggles, he asked if she had an A. She waffled on answering, and he changed the topic saying it was not his business.

Sunday was a good day, I took FWW shoe shopping as reward for being open with me. When I am rational, I get that she is feeling shame, and exposed, and that she is sharing things with me that are very uncomfortable for her, and that she has not shared with others.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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