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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 24
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

YourNellNow,

he thinks he's perfectly fine now that he's not balling anyone (as far as I know)

The actual sex is just a part of the A, a ritual almost. The real dynamic and energy is in the affirmation, the perfect fantasy relationship, the distraction from reality. The WS can not be having sex, but still be a "dry cheater" as mentioned a while back by overly focusing on work, flirting or evaluating possible options, drinking, etc. In the first year or so after dday the dynamics and dramma of the roller coaster of the primary relationship may even meet their need. There is a lot more to no longer being a WS than not f'ing OPs, but then Yyou know that. I hope that Mr. Nell can come to realize this if being M is what he wants.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun,
Sorry I went all Nell-centric there.

So your WH is "done" because you are not giving him what he wants (the M and W he had, didn't value and destroyed single-handedly), now that he's decided that the used-to-have M to you is what he wants, after all? And your struggle (the natural consequences to his own actions) is uncomfortable for him so that's it. Is that the situation in a nutshell?

Nice.

I would be on pins and needles to hear what his IC has to say. I sincerely hope his IC doesn't try to put any pressure or guilt onto you.

We're here for you.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Meanwhile, ats...

I've had a ton of ah-ha moments about WH's problems, to the point that I feel that I understand and can predict exactly what he will do in any given situation. And I'm right on his reactions 99% of the time. It's eye-opening and depressing as hell.

You're spot-on about the drama. He thrives on it. Or, if that's too strong, it's comfortable for him because he knows how to react to emotional manipulation. Those who blackmail him with "depression, anxiety, sadness, rage" (or removal of access to ego-stroking/sex) that magically disappear the second he capitulates actually soothes him because he sees the direct line between "they are sad, I rescue them by giving them what they need, they are happy;" unfortunately, he rather enjoys that line as it gives him a false sense of control. As opposed to seeing it as a "I take a stand, they don't like it, they manipulate me, I give in, they feel powerful and reward me for my weakness" situation, which is much closer to the truth. I can actually seeing him trying to train me to manipulate him (not consciously) by rewarding my ugliest behavior (miracle, my hissy fits) with positive, albeit short-term, change and capitulation; while punishing mature, healthy behavior (being open and honest, being kind, controlling my temper, trying to have mature conversations instead of screaming matches) with zero behavior change and ignoring me and my needs.

So my problems are more than just (just! haha) will I put up with his behavior (yes/no) or even is he a healthy person who will not cheat again (yes/no) but WHAT IS THIS RELATIONSHIP DOING TO ME and DO I LIKE WHO I AM WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THIS MARRIAGE? I do not like the answers, frankly. I do not like the person I am in this marriage. I like ME... but I have no respect for the person I am/have been within the confines of the marriage. In order to get what I need, I have to manipulate my husband. I don't like that person. In order to get what I need, I have to give it to myself because my husband does not have my back. I don't like that person. In order to get what I need, I have to give 100 times the amount that I need to get back. I don't like that person. In order to get what I need, I have to fight tooth and nail over every single thing or just accept whatever he decides he wants to give me. I don't like that person.

So.
Option 1:
I stick with this marriage and Mr. Nell never realizes his own internal brokenness, so I cope with the symptoms by alternately manipulating and ignoring him. (Yuck.)
Option 2:
I stick with this marriage and Mr. Nell never realizes his own internal brokenness, so I cope with the symptoms by becoming co-dependent, accept whatever crumbs he throws my way, and try my damnedest to alter the state of his universe to keep him happy enough not to destroy everything again. (Honestly, this is Mr. Nell's favorite... though he certainly wouldn't word it like this! ...and, yuck.)
Option 3:
Mr. Nell figures himself out while we live together, I support both of us while he does this, and we work incredibly hard for the chance to create a new relationship that works for both of us. (Possible, but not probable at this point.)
Option 4:
Divorce, and good luck to Mr. Nell but I no longer care as long as he's not fucking our kids over. (Easiest option for me given the current state of everything but I don't know if I like it.)

So, miracle, you asked a few days ago about my plans. I guess that's as close as I have to plans. Timeline? I don't know. Maybe I'll know when it's time when I've opened the door and there's nothing to stop me from walking through it?

Damn, I'm deep for a Friday morning.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

o time or less, could not finish readin all...but needed to yell out....fun..please bitch slap that so called man...he needs to grow a pair of balls a BE A MAN...for god's sake.....honestly..the nerve, the fucking nerve...

fun i would like to meet the man and have a few words...i would actually like to meet all of them...give me a room...some chairs and microphone...and then of course add in the whips and chains for some punishments....

yup bitch slap the so called man...

gotta run...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn!! I wrote a long post to every one and it "poofed"!!!

Don't have time right now to rewrite, but just wanted to give hugs to Nofun. Please let us know what happens with WH's IC.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DP,Allgood, and Miracle-
sending hugs to all of you.

Living in this limbo land has to be awful.

I couldn't do it.

I had to ask FWH to leave right after d-day.
I couldn't look at him let alone interract with him in a normal fashion!

For me I could not even begin to think about R until I saw a real big internal change in my husband.
He had to prove to me that he had an epiphany and that everything was going to change in our marriage (especially in terms of how he behaved and interracted with me!).

Nofun- I am sorry that your FWH seems to harbor anger towards you.
My husband used to get frustrated when I would trigger or would still need to discuss the LTA etc.
But, even if his initial reaction was that he could not believe that I was still not over it, that he was upset that no matter how much he had changed and tried to make amends that I was still upset about the LTA.
Sometimes he would voice these opinions and even leave the house! Take a drive around the block or go to Starbucks for coffee (since he no longer drinks) but....
he would come back home and always apologize, reach out to me, give me a hug, attempt to make amends.
As difficult as R was he did not give up.

I think that part of the reason may have been that he had a good IC for that first 1 and 1/2 yrs. That guy (the IC) understood how traumatic infidelity was for the BS.
And, at times I would hear mt husband repeat this... that he knew that I was traumatized and that was why the recovery was taking so long.

All of the WS would love for everything to go back to normal ASAP but... the problem with that plan is that #1-the BS has been traumatized and it takes a long time to 'get over' the trauma even under the best circumstances....and #2- I think that going 'back to normal' is the worst thing that you can do. Normal is what got you into this mess to begin with.
Everything about the old marriage has to be dismantled and a new marriage has to be rebuilt..sometimes brick by brick.
That's why IC is crucial.
The WS has to change on the inside. Has to understand why it happened and who he/she is and what they want from the marriage and what they have to do to reconcile and make amends etc. etc.

Tryin's suggestion of Retrouvaille is also excellent. The WS needs emergency intervention, the marriage needs emergency intervention. That's what Retrouvaille is all about.
It actually started out to help already divorced couples try to reconcile.
It's MC geared for couples that are in the 'misery' stage of marriage. And the hope of Retro is to save the marriage and to re-invent the marriage.

There are other marriage retreats out there geared to helping marriages in severe trouble.
I think that Chapman (the author of Five Love Languages) runs a retreat and so does Dr. Harley (His Needs, Her Needs and Marriabuilders.com), also there's a husband/wife team of psychologists out in Seattle Washington- gottmancouplesretreat.com (they are not Christian based). Although... Retrouvaille states emphatically that you do not need to be Catholic or even Christian to participate.

Anne Berch ( Beyond Affairs Network) does marriage retreats that deal with infidelity.

Nofun, strongish,Nell, girlfromipanema, ats...maybe demanding that you give something like this a chance before throwing in the towel might be worth it.

Its just a commitment to one weekend. And whatever the expense-it's less expensive than one or two months of being separated in terms of how much it costs to maintain 2 households etc.

just some thoughts...

I'm the counseling and therapy queen... I threw everything at our marriage after we decided to try to R-IC, MC, Christian counseling,meds,EMDR you name it.
Retrouvaille was also on my list as the next thing to try if these did not work.....

just wanted to throw this out to all of you in the hopes that it might help.

Miracle- I somehow missed reading the post about your DD. She sounds like a lovely, caring girl. You've done a great job as a mom!
Hopefully, you will be able to reschedule your girl's night out for another evening!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well, first of all i had a fabulous time getting up at 5 am with Baby Paddy to watch the royal wedding this morning. I di have a brief "ah, my prodigal husband" thought when they got to the fidelity part, but I enjoyed the whole thing! It was girl time! At one point Paddy said where's brothers? and I said "We don't need those stinky boys! This is girl time! This is a girl thing! Only for Mommy and Paddy and our doggie because she's a GIRL doggie!" And Paddy said "Royal Wedding!" Which really surprised me, because, you know, she's just barely one, and then when Princess Catherine and Prince William left the church we cheered "Yea! New Princess!" and clapped like crazy. Baby girl watched that wedding with me for nearly 3 hours. I do have to work on her a bit though -- she needed her diaper changed at the EXACT moment the bride stepped out of the car to reveal her dress. Clearly, improvements must be made before Miss America rolls around...

Nofun -- I guess I have formed certain uber-boundaries like tryn over the pass year or so, because when I read your post I was 100% sure I would have only ONE response to such a statement and the response would be "OK".

Man, I'm kind of bummed that the WH's have killed most of the ladies' interest in the Royal Wedding. It's like the girl Super Bowl!!!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow Nell, really well thought out.

...and try my damnedest to alter the state of his universe to keep him happy enough not to destroy everything again.

Of course you cannot do this, none of could or can. That is the thing; the FWS must somehow learn to express and meet their own needs, and to accept that we don't always get what we want. But that if they try sometimes, they just might find, they get what they need (break into chorus now).

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:34 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M33-
Wow! Baby Paddy is so bright!
Wonderful to hear how well she is doing!
Mommy/daughter time-priceless.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal, this is the change I need to have happen. Some reaching our to me rather than a scowl in the hallway the morning after.

Sometimes he would voice these opinions and even leave the house! Take a drive around the block or go to Starbucks for coffee (since he no longer drinks) but....
he would come back home and always apologize, reach out to me, give me a hug, attempt to make amends.

When we hit that point of needing time out, and I appreciate that is an OK need, I am the one offerring the apology for the conversation going off track to hurt feelings (last night), asking if we can meet for lunch (this morning), just to keep the lines of communication open. Otherwise we do not talk, she works late tonight, I get up and do things Saturday alone... We go days or more without talking.

I guess I need to just ignore her and let that happen the next time.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3 - I did say OK, and left. There was no drama, no emotion in my talking to him. I'm flat out dead.

I went into IC and let IC do all the talking, what the IC told me was exactly what my H had told me last night. IC told me H "does not get it." H is selfish, manipulative and controlling. He asked me if I had somewhere to go. He said he wouldn't blame me if I left. After we talked he said he was going to tell H just what he told me and that if H wants to save the M, he best step up to the plate and man up!

That's the short version. Oh man...I'm drained!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((((((((((((((nofun))))))))))))))))))))


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Fun))


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nofun}}}}}}}

I am so very sorry. You have tried everything you could. I get the impression that your WH went away with you on that vacation and hoped that would "fix" everything.

He does not "get" that he has to make major changes in himself and not just superficial changes.

The only thing I could suggest is that you try to be kind to yourself and HIM, in the sense that you do not need to get into an argument with him and tell him that you still care about him, want the marriage to work, but it's not happening this way.

Just focus on YOU right now, Nofun. Decide what is the best thing for YOU right now. You may want to try Retrou as one last chance.
Please, please vent here a lot now. You need the support. Don't try to be superwoman now. {{{{Nofun}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell: In the post that "poofed" I was writing to you that I absolutely loved your post. I really enjoy reading what you have to say because you put into words things that I am feeling and cannot express.

I also loved your "list". It is very healthy that you are not opting for #1 or 2. I know I did for many years just to keep the marriage at all costs at the expense of losing myself.
I would suggest that you give this list to your WH, with some minor changes in the wording so he doesn't get defensive, but is open to it. Let him know you really do not want the last thing on the list, but he has to work on the M and himself.

NJgal: Thank you so very much for all your kind words and support. You are keeping me on track about the reality of everything in my sitch. I am working on my list to reread it to keep it reality based and not keep pining for the fantasy I had.
Telling us your experiences and the details of what happened really helps to show how much work it is. I pray that you are in a happy place right now. You deserve it.

Miracle: What a wonderful thing your daughter is doing. You must be very proud. Since she is getting older and out of her teens soon, you will see the rewards of all your hard work and what a fine lady you have raised. Kudos to you, Miracle!!!

I'm going to post this now before I lose it.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well... fuck...
njgal, my reaction to your fine, wise suggestion
maybe demanding that you give something like this (couples retreat) a chance before throwing in the towel might be worth it

was "why would I want to waste more time trying to save THIS? What's in it for ME?" Thaaaaaaaaaat's not healthy, Nell. Crap. Found another broken piece I need to glue back together.

ETA: honest, thanks. There is another option... I stick with this marriage and WH never realizes his internal brokenness and I just live a completely separate life and we treat each other like roommates. Which was kinda what our lives had become. I didn't include it because it's no longer an option for me. I have seen the light! But it's too bright and now I'm all confused.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 1:11 PM, April 29th (Friday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in parts because my frustration level was low when losing all the long posts I wrote!!

Laura: I'm glad to hear that the doctor's visit went as well as can be expected. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. You have too much on your plate and you are doing a marvelous job, God bless you.

DP: Congrats on getting asked out. Although it is very tempting, now is NOT the time to be starting to see other people. You are raw with emotions and it is not fair to you or the new person if you cannot give your attention to a new relationship. Continue to enjoy those cooking classes and meeting new people. Let the lady know that you might take a "rain check" in the future, but are just going through a separation right now. If she is a good lady, she'll understand.
It sounds like you are doing a lot of pro active things for yourself, and that is wonderful. Keep up the good work. I think that with all you are doing, your self confidence will be enhanced and you will definitely find a new and rewarding job because the interviewers will see it in you. KWIM?

Ats: It is so very difficult to change a lifetime of behaviors. Your fWW was working on crisis mode and trying to change things and now might be in danger of going back to the old behaviors just because they are familiar even though they are not healthy for her.

I really believe she should be seeing an IC weekly not every 2 weeks. She needs a lot of support in keeping her changes.

Ats, your fWW has worked very hard, and you know this, but it has taken a toll on you being supportive for her. Are you still in IC? If not, I would suggest going for a while to help you decide what you want to do. I know you love your fWW dearly. I know you have forgiven her. You have been extremely understanding about everything and supportive above and beyond the call of duty.

Things will take a long time to change. Keep in mind your own adage about if things keep improving for 2 months, even a little, you will stay. Don't give up just because you are tired, and frustrated, which you should be. Start reaching deep down within yourself to decide what will be best for everyone concerned: fWW, your sons and yourself.

{{{{Ats}}}

M3: I'm glad you had that mother/daughter time. Baby Paddy sounds so bright!!! My two older ds's didn't start really talking until they were almost 2!!! (now they won't shut up! )


{{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gots no time again...

there are days though i don't like kids....they can be so stupid, but i have to say in the midst of stupid i gots one who is thinking....my dd rocks....her brother did stupid really well and she is yelling at him to correct it...LOL .....and to boot, she is also sticking up for him regarding some other kid...and scrawny boy too is going to be sticking up for his brother...its about time....now manchild will hopefully correct his handling of a bad sich....please please don't let him be like his dad on this crap.....so pray a little kkkk

oh and yesterday for my anniversary..we went out to dinner, me pfm scrawny boy and my mom...it went ok..quiet...pfm said nothing....and i mean nothing...he slipped a card where i sit back at the house later on....i didn't open til today...a card that says a whole bunch of meaningless crap considering who gave it to me and get ready....a gift card for $50 to target....thats it...

i know this is not a real marriage, but this man keeps insisting he wants the marriage, wants me back, is a changed man....i dont know...he just does stupid so well....but at least i didn't expect anything so no disappointment, just lots of validation that i am doing the right thing...lots...

ok gotta run, lots of cookin to do....

ad yes i am so so proud of my dd, for so much..she really is a wonderful human being...all of my kids i have to say when it comes to giving of self are...and also of me...they all volunteer me for anything....i used to do the same thing with my mom, actually i still do..


(((tribe)))

btw, i will be back later...need to address some of what i did at least read...ttyl


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothing says I have changed and will move the Sun and the Moon to regain your love like a $50 gift card from Target. Even I know better than that.

iwam, happy to read your positive children reports. They are at an age where they can be so obtuse, it is good that they are doing the right things. This is one of the happy/improving areas in my life, the DSs (especially DS18) are not so dense as I was beginning to fear.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, April 29th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so nell: i read your options and i have to say...where are you in them....where is your heart....

the wait and see thing that you are doing seems to be taking somewhat of a toll....and i get the sense that you are losing 'you'......where is nell and what she needs....all of your options are about him....what about you...coping is not about who you should be for yourself...neither is supporting him...they are actions but they are not actions of healthy..

just sayin..

fun: i still stand by the bitch slap...he needs it badly...i have to say though i am so confused, he was or seemed like he was changing, like he was being proactive...he still might not have been doing everything right, but he was showing signs of doing right...so what happened to change his tune...it just seems so black to white..

m3: it is so clear how much joy that child bring to you as well as a new sense of wonderment....use it m3, use that joy to propel you forward to find more joy instead of trudging...i get the sense that for you as it is with alot of young moms, or moms with young children...you get lost amidst the everything that has to get done, laundry, work, dinner, school, dance and baseball and god know what else....mom tends to take the back seat....so what is there for you m3..

maybe you and nell could meet up and figure out a game plan for you both to be women, beautiful wonderful vibrant women first, mommy's second...just at least for a bit...find your hearts...

of course you could both tell me i am full of poppycock and to go fly a kite....i will accept the poppycock...but i suck at kites...


allgood: how are you hangin girl....

and honest...how about you...have you heard from mr dishonest...whats the status of your impending sich...


ats, ats, ats....i totally get the fustrations, i really do....so what options do you have in your life to blow off some steam.....isn't boating what you love to do to reconnect with sanity....i think it may be time for aboat ride...and let her stew a bit, she will come round when she is ready...are you afraid that she won't come round if you do not prod...???


purple: good for you...doesn't it feel amazing to be hit on....


i know its wrong to feed the ego..BUT...when the ego has taken a huge beating that actually beat your soul....i believe feeding the ego just even a bit helps elevate the soul, so that the soul is open and ready...


njgal: yes, girls nite out will definitely be rescheduled....i like having that "me" time...especially when i share it...thats a bit of an oxymoron...


i watched the wedding in bits and pieces and i couldn't help but wonder, what do the ws think about when they hear those vows, the words spoken about what marriage is by the priest.....what goes through their heads, the ones that are attempting to get it, even if they are so off base they are in another country playing a different game.....when they hear the words faithful, forsaking all others....do they do more guilt, do they slap themselves or do they let it roll, like so much of what they already have done...let it roll, right out the door...ahhh...they would have to posses some sort of integrity wouldn't they....or some kind of value sytem based on true real morals.....as opposed to the living life on the edge, the edge of whatever mattress happens to be where they are....

bad me...too tired, think i need sleep....dd will be kicking the girls out by midnight, that is when i will turn into a pumpkin....and possibly some pie by morning if only i was getting baked... ...damn these are so bad, i will not torture anymore....nite tribe...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

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