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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 24
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honest,
I came here to see how you are doing. It looks like you've settled into your next steps quickly, I'm guessing because you've been waiting for it to happen for many months now. I like all of tryn's advice. As you do things for yourself, even little things, you will feel more powerful and strong and your fears will get quieter.

You have much love waiting here for you whenever you need it. Please don't apologise for taking it when it is offered. We are all here for you.

WH spent all day working on his business plan. We talked about it a little bit. He luvs it when I interact with him on his big ideas. I checked the "Not 'Just Friends'" book while we spoke; he has not read any more than he did after day #2 of reading. The only thing he did while I was gone was to tell me over and over how much he missed me. I had to laugh at his Monday morning monologue that included describing how hard it was to get the boys to the daycare provider all by his poor little self (I didn't do anything to make his life easier while I was gone... no meals in the freezer, no clothes laid out, no backpacks packed, etc.) and said, "I don't know how single parents do it." I responded that he will get into a zone and figure out the schedule and it will be easier by the end of the week. I didn't snark at all. Very proud of me.

I also spent a few hours with WH's parents while I was back home. Not enough time to get annoyed much by his dad's narcissism or his mom's co-dependency.

I miss my family and friends a lot. I don't spend any time hoping to move closer to them any time soon, though. When Boyo2 graduates from high school is probably the soonest that will happen, unless something happens that makes WH want to move closer (for his own sake, not mine).


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you, Nell! Why did you go see your IL's? Just curious.

Honest, not really a "message from God" - that just doesn't sound right now, but anyway my point is that there are all sorts of places that specialize in helping people who are having the types of problems you're having.

Of course you don't respect him.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun,
I am sorry to read that you are struggling last night, but I agree that making it 5 days is a sign that things could be worse. Welcome back, and I hope you business and family lives both smooth out for you.

Stongish,

…yet he has no recognition or acknowledgement that I have been depressed, sobbing, lethargic, etc. for months! He's still not mad at OW for her part in hurting me and I want him to be furious at anyone that would hurt me...even himself. But he keeps holding back.

We have always had the option to end our M if it was not meeting our needs. It is just that in the aftermath of dday we realize we should have played that card in the past, and it feels like we need to be ready to play it now. If, you want to R everything I read and live points to time being important. I believe that this is especially true with a LTA where the WS must have issues beyond being selfish to be able to engage in an EMA for so long and keep it “simmering” without dying out or boiling over. FWIW, it took FWW 7 months to provide most (?) of the details about the depth and breadth of her A’s. At 8 months out, she was still telling me how good OM was in bed as a way of explaining her A’s to me. He did something special doing oral, his cock “fit her just right” for orgasms. It took her a year to decide really to commit to the M, and it took 18+ months to figure out that her issues that led to the A’s also played a large role in the dysfunction of our M.

LTA? I think that is anything over a year. That way all of the holidays and dates are tainted, and is show that there is something more in the WS and OP than just bad judgment or some alcohol influenced selfishness. Carrying on for a year, not getting bored or wanting to leave for the OP shows me that there are intimacy and other issues in the WS. FWW’s first LTA the OM was “in love” with FWW, it was just supposed to be a “fling” for her. His over involvement is a big part of what ended that A. The last OM and she never had love, just a pathetic need in each of them for external validation. This A went 2+ years until dday, and was going strong on dday.

m334455, yes FWW had IC on Friday. She also had an issue at work on Friday with a person who is probably more broken than she is sending a hurtful email. She is also upset about her trip this week where she will be where her rape occured, and a coming trip to DD's graduation where we are going and her xH and his W will be there. They surely know about her A's from her DD's who she told about the A's while they were going on. She introduced on DD to two of the OM.

The proximal cause for her cutting Friday is that while we were having sex felt she lost control and flashed back to her rape. She then disassociated and hoped it would "be over soon". She did not say anything to me during sex. She did not say anything this week that she had been having thoughts about how on her trip she and her father and sister will be going to the town where her rape occured and this was bothering her. She is still keeping secrets she is afraid will upset me. I am not allowed to be upset in her view. She would rather hurt herself emotionally and cut herself physically than say anything to upset me. She is afraid if I knew how messed up she is I would leave her. Thank goodness she is not messed up, just a couple of A's and some cutting. She feels guilty for marrying me.

She is getting better acting on the surface, we will see how the next few months go. I am less optimistic than I was a couple of months ago.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:03 AM, April 4th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My DDay was 12/28/10...then again in February when I found out it was not a 9 month A but over 3 years. The NC rule has consistently been broken. I did not tell her BH. My WH is the Executive Director of HR....the OW is a buffet hostess....my WH had me convinced that he would lose his job. The last contact that I am aware of was in October but my WH says she only called him bc I had heard that they were seend talking at work and I had called her home number to tell her BH....he wasn;t home. The OW texted me and told me it was over and that she was sorry. I really have no hard proof that the A is still continuing...so I don't know if I should contact her BH now or not...or just wait until I find out if it is still continuing. My H has been attentive and appears to be working on our marriage. He does still drink but not to the level he was. I read the 180 and I have started to implement some of it. Not checking in with him as much and not sharing all of my fears and insecurities. He actually asked me yesterday if something was wrong...if something was bothering me. I said no. I am so confused. If this is an honest R then I don't want to sabotage it but I also don't want to be sucker punched again. The only real concerning evidence that I have recently is that last weekend I found an empty bottle of Cialis in his truck hidden inside a sock. He says it was for me and that he was embarrassed and it was in his truck to get a refill.....His cell phone is company issued...we don;t get the bill. I did put an app on it where I can see the calls and texts last October but let him goad me into telling him it was there. (when he was lying about the texts and calls from her in October after I called her house) What I saw for the week that I had it there before he knew did support that she only contacted him bc of my call and it apeared that he was doing his best to avoid her but not coming out and telling her to go away. I am in IC, have lost a lot of weight and haven;t really been taking care of myself:( Trying to do better. I have 4 boys who depend on me and need me. Definitely been a tough year. He denies the OW allegations that there were others. It bothers me that he seems more upset by the NC calls he made to her then the calls she made to me.

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The proximal cause for her cutting Friday is that while we were having sex felt she lost control and flashed back to her rape. She then disassociated and hoped it would "be over soon". She did not say anything to me during sex. She did not say anything this week that she had been having thoughts about how on her trip she and her father and sister will be going to the town where her rape occured and this was bothering her. She is still keeping secrets she is afraid will upset me. I am not allowed to be upset in her view. She would rather hurt herself emotionally and cut herself physically than say anything to upset me. She is afraid if I knew how messed up she is I would leave her. Thank goodness she is not messed up, just a couple of A's and some cutting. She feels guilty for marrying me.

She is getting better acting on the surface, we will see how the next few months go. I am less optimistic than I was a couple of months ago

ATS, you have no idea how shameful it is. None. It's horrible. A child believes they've done something to deserve the abuse, and often that belief is reinforced. The adult? The adult can be reassured, instructed, etc. that no, the abuse was undeserved, unavoidable, etc., but the emotions, the shame, were laid down by the child and cannot be converted to adult emotions. Much like the way you might feel like you're five years old when a puppy licks your face.

The abuse victim will flashback during sexual activity as they begin to heal. This is because to heal they must de-compartmentalize their sexuality. Unfortunately, the abuse is the foundation of their sexuality. A person who did not experience abuse as a child will look back at their first sexual experience as perhaps a kiss from a person they had a crush on as they entered puberty. The abuse survivior's first sexual experience might be something like a parent forcibly fondling them to orgasm as a small child.

There's no real comparison. Her A's were, in part, a way to re-victimize herself. Experiences that are similar or that call to mind the abuse can be very arousing to the victim, though they may also cause dissociation. This just inflates the shame. What must be wrong with you if this is true?

Should she have said something to you? Well, yes and no. She probably CAN'T on some level once that process starts because she was not allowed to say no to the abuse so she's well-trained to just lie there and take it at this point. What could you do? Well, I would suggest a safe word. She might not be able to get out "no" or "stop" but another word might work.

Then, there is the fundamental unfairness to you, which she wholly recognizes.

Consider encouraging her NOT to travel to that town. I think it sounds very unhealthy.

I know this seems objectively worse, but things really are getting better with her. Yes, she's messed up and broken. You know that. If it's too much for you, you should divorce. This isn't going to be a quick fix, but she's working very hard.

((ATS))


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Questions I have and hoping you can help me....in a LTA is it typical for the NC to not take hold right away? Is it typical to not have full disclosure? Does WH not admit to contact unless caught? Are his lies motivated by not wanting to lose me or bc he is continuing A....realize these are probably not question you all can answer. WIsh I had a crystal ball?

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ScaredStill --

Let me translate your story into cynical but usually right veteran BS terms.

(1) Tell her BH right now, today.
(2) Yes, your WH might lose his job. If I were you, I'd consider outing him to his employer actually.
(3) The OW and your WH think you are incredibly stupid to fall for their bullshit text from her that it's over because you sorta kinda almost but didn't call her husband.
(4) Yes, the A is still ongoing.
(5) Your husband may not drink at all.
(6) You need to do a HARD 180. If you don't want to talk to friends IRL, you can vent to us here. You need a huge amount of support at the beginning of the 180. We can give this to you.
(7) The Cialis was not for you. It was hidden in his truck in a sock. Not for you.
(8) Put the app back on the phone.
(9) Put a var in his car
(10) consider having a PI follow them
(11) The OW's allegations that there were others are most likely true.

You are not in R. Not even close.

Here is the most important advice:
PUT YOUR OWN OXYGEN MASK ON FIRST.

Here are your priorities:
(1) Drink Water.
(2) Eat healthy food.
(3) Get a little exercise each day and enough sleep at night.
(4) Keep going to IC.
(5) Cooking for your kids.
(6) Grocery shopping
(7) Laundry
(8) Your job if you have one.

Very, very basic. If you do have a job, tell your superiors what is going on and see if you can take some time off.

You probably think my response is a wack-job prophesy, but my guess is that others will agree with me.

((scaredstill))


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everyone has so much to say, but because my lil Diva won't allow me the time to respond fully, I'm just jumping in to address Scared cuz that's all I have time for:

Scared:

In a LTA is it typical for the NC to not take hold right away

I would say so. There's an emotional attachment. There's habit. There's whatever underlying shit causes them to engage in this for so long unchecked by their own sense of morality/conscience,etc. Bottom line: all stuff that doesn't stop just because their A has been discovered.
Certainly was the case with my H. I know he struggled with not calling her and then I discovered 1 mo after DDay she had gotten him a cell phone & they were in regular phone contact if nothing else.

Does WH not admit to contact unless caught

Some do, some don't. My H certainly didnt admit to shit unless I had him completely cornered. If I had to guess this would be the case with most LTAs as the WS is a proven adept liar. There's also the obvious self-preservation need to withhold information that will lead to the BS either freaking out or kicking the WS out.

Are his lies motivated by not wanting to lose me or bc he is continuing A

I would say that the WS doesnt want to lose the BS in all cases or they would've divorced or would not otherwise be putting up with the fallout after DDay. That the A could have gone underground is a possibility.

Focus on what your H is doing to help you and help him. This would include IC/MC, being transparent, being emotionally supportive, appearing fully on board for what will undoubtedly be a roller coaster ride.

All I have time for. Laundry awaits..


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Questions I have and hoping you can help me....in a LTA is it typical for the NC to not take hold right away?

It depends. My guess would be "yes" more often than not, BUT you should absolutely insist on immediate NC. My WH got one text from OW BH's cell number that he hid from me 6 months after Dday and when I saw it on the phone bill I almost filed for D right then. BIG fight.

Is it typical to not have full disclosure?

Yes. You need to insist on as much disclosure as you need, but you also must recognize that with the scope of the A they're never going to remember everything. It's not a couple month fling, it's a double life. It's like asking -- what day of the week did you last eat donuts? Well, I can say Saturday, because last time I had donuts was 2 days ago, but the time before that? I don't know! It was a weekday...

Does WH not admit to contact unless caught?

If you are not in R, then yes. When you are truly in R, you should know about it immediately and also it might be a situation where he forwards you an e-mail he hasn't even read, etc.

Are his lies motivated by not wanting to lose me or bc he is continuing A

Both. He's a cake eater. He wants you both. Had everything set up just right for him until you bitches started to complain...

....realize these are probably not question you all can answer. WIsh I had a crystal ball?

Oh, I'd say the rest of the tribe will agree that my magic SI radar "crystal ball" is spot-on here.

Keep posting. We're here to help. Talk to your IC about what would indicate R -- these things do NOT.

ETA -- Allgood, you're so gentle and reasonable! I'm all for her and your "ghetto" anger has gone all uptown!

What do you charge to do laundry, BTW?

DOUBLE EDIT --

Scaredstill -- R'ing from an LTA isn't easy. R is never easy anyhow. Bottom line, you're going to eat a shit sandwich either way on one level or another. But you do need to be firm. Very, very firm. I think I put it best when I simply explained to my husband that if he'd managed to convince himself that I must have known/suspected, etc. that I most certainly did NOT, not even a tiny bit and that he had been deeply loved and deeply trusted and this was wholly unacceptable. There was NO tacit understanding/approval/etc. on my part and there never, ever would be.

But, in the end, the biggest stumbling block to R is always the BS when it comes to an LTA. So much has been stolen from you. If your WS puts every ounce of effort into R that they need to (and they must eventually do that, only you can decide how quickly) and if you decide the M can be good for you and continued and will most likely be faithful in the future -- even after all that, at the end you will have to be able to forgive. Forgiving is absorbing the loss, issuing a pardon. Saying, this happened and it was horribly wrong and it hurt me deeply and that can never be undone. But, rather than punish or seek revenge, I choose to absorb the loss. Someone must feel the pain from this evil, so that someone will be me. I will feel the pain, and choose not to inflict it back on anyone but instead I will absorb the loss in it's entirety.

But first, the A must stop for real, for certain, and for good. On one level it doesn't matter whether the A has stopped or not at this moment, because you are not convinced it has stopped -- therefore something necessary to R is still lacking. First, it must stop and you must be convinced it has. Then, there is the stage where you worry whether it or another A will start again ... then, other problems after that, but this is baby steps, so first accomplish the first step.

[This message edited by m334455 at 9:00 AM, April 4th (Monday)]


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your replies. I think deep down my gut is saying u r right....but I so don;t want it to be true. I go to IC today....I have printed off the 180....going to share. Really hard bc I feel if he is being true then the 180 is causing me to withdraw??? The OW wanted my H to leave me...she wanted to tell her BH...so why would she not just tell me in October that it was continuing????

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can so tell that I am not alone and that you all know exactly what I am feeling....right down to my priority list:) Eat, drink, sleep, cook for the kids, shop, do laundary.....I have just been reluctantly going through the motions....need to snap out of it and live with a purpose:)

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"ghetto" anger

I never really thought of it that way. Lol.

That's cuz ghetto anger takes a lot of energy that I lack at this particular moment.

Ghetto.
Lol.
(I don't know why I like that so much!)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Scaredstill,

Allgood, Honest, Deeppurple and I each have 4 kids too. Miracle has 3. Nell has 2 ... others have kids as well. Heck, I have an IRL friend who has a WS and 6 kids! We know how overwhelmed you are.

It does not matter whether or not the 180 brings you closer to your husband. The purpose of the 180 is to take care of you and remind you of all the ways you are wonderful without your WH and your M. Maybe your WH will notice and want to be with you more. Maybe he will not and you will simply heal faster as you move apart from each other. Either way, it's very healing and powerful.

Of course you don't want it to be true. Unfortunately, this is your real life. Go cry like crazy, then make a nice cup of hot tea, then do something that feeds your soul. Today would be a nice day to plant some pansies...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood,

I hear ya! I had a text exchange with a fellow Mom friend that went something like this:

M3: Would you and your crew like to come over for dinner tonight?

Friend: Can't. Got a puker here.

M3: I'll trade you your puker for an incontinent dog and some mysteriously sticky chartruse green spill on the bottom of the fridge.

Friend: Ah, motherhood is so glamourous!


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

:) It just so happens that I bought some pansies yesterday.....you are right today would be a good day to plant them.

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Friend: Ah, motherhood is so glamourous!

Ain't it the truth!

Scared - welcome to LTA! The "tribe" here are great people. I already love them, as I am fairly new here, too.

I would say you can not believe ANYTHING an AP says. Most want to hurt and devastate, but at the same time they have to be careful not to alienate their AP (your WH).

That is why the OW sent me a letter exposing the affair between my FWH and her, except she was pretending to be her dead ex-husband so my FWH couldn't blame her for exposing the affair. You can read my profile if you'ld like the whole stupid story.

Please, don't engage in conversation with OW, you need to go NC, also. OW is poison, and she wants to poison you.

I agree that OW BH needs to know. It is the right thing to do. Wouldn't it have been nice if someone had told you the affair was going on? He has a right to know what is going on in his marriage, IMHO.

(((Tribe)))

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:35 AM, April 4th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8988 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I regret that I didn't tell her BH when I first found out....now I feel like I shouldn;t unless I know it is still happening? What if it is over?

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I am obviously new here :) Am I in deep denial and do you all just want to slap some sense into me?:)

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
Scaredstill
♀ Member
Member # 31710
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe I need to get some ghetto anger:)

Posts: 83 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: DE
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, April 4th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, Scared. I feel as if I'm the resident 180 queen, so am responding to those Qs.
Really hard bc I feel if he is being true then the 180 is causing me to withdraw???

m3 already answered this, I'm just adding a "yeah, what she said" to it. You need to get strong, to find your joy, to figure out who you are and what you want... you can't do that while focusing on your WH constantly. Gardening will be good. You can look at your pansies and think "I did that." Find something every day that you do for yourself that brings you peace. Exercise, volunteering, creative projects, etc. Just for you. Trust me, your WH will take care of himself. You can cross him off your to-do list.
The OW wanted my H to leave me...she wanted to tell her BH...so why would she not just tell me in October that it was continuing????

Well, yeah, OW wanted to permanently move to marshmallow lollipop babytalk world, where bluebirds would talk to her from her cartoon windows and your WH's farts smell like petunias. I'm sure she also wanted to WIN, to be CHOSEN, to have VALUE. To be the buffet-hostess with the mostest. Can you look at her with objectivity and see how pathetic she is? Of course your WH would choose you. You're a loving, faithful woman and the mother of his children and the nurturer of his soul. He didn't want to leave you; he affaired waaaay below him with someone below him in education (I'm guessing), in pay grade, in position, who has few morals and no boundaries. So did my WH. But that's not the point for you. That's for him to figure out on his own, in IC.

Here's your point: Would YOU choose him? Can he make YOU happy? Do YOU want to be married to him? You can't really answer that if you're focusing on him and tying yourself up in knots in the process. So... 180.

IF he is currently true to you, THEN he has a shitload of work to do to earn his place beside you. And even if he does the work, there's nothing that says that you must give him what he wants. Screw him. He took and took and took what he wanted, stomping on everyone in his path. Your turn now. 180.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

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