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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 6
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I set boundaries after Dday2 but how capable are SA's at sticking to them?

Boundaries are absolutely useless without consequences, and it HAS to be a consequence you are willing to enforce. Obviously his boundary violations weren't deal breakers if you haven't filed for D. I'm not trying to be harsh, just realistic because I have to tell you I have told m H a million times if you do X I will divorce you, and I never have. So I totally understand where you are coming from.

But now that I have said if you do X I will do Y, and I actually DO Y, I have seen a difference. For example, we snuggle up together every night at bed time. It is one of the highlights of my day, and H says it is the highlight of his. The first time I said "I'm sorry, but you just lied to me so you don't get to snuggle with me" actually had an impact. I'm not sure if H thought it was just an abberation because we had a repeat a few nights later, but now that he knows I'm serious we haven't had one of those "I know you are lying" fights in a long time.

So think about what consequences you are actually willing to follow through with that you think would actually be a consequence for HIM. Does he dislike sleeping on the couch? How about if you X, you will have to sleep on the couch for some number of nights. Or if you do Y again, I am going to buy a bed and you will have to sleep in the basement indefinately.

Good luck with this, sometimes I think boundaries and consequences are almost harder on us then they are on our SA.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
copingwithdoubts
♀ Member
Member # 21431
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with DAC. Don't make ultimatums you cannot or are unwilling to enforce.
Let him know that continued crossing of boundaries causes you to re-evaluate your decision to stay emotionally invested in the relationship. After all, how can you feel safe if he is lying and minimizing?

Do not bother dragging confessions out of him anymore. The proof of innocence is his burden ... he is the one who has a problem with the truth, and he knows it.

Instead of pleading for the truth tearfully and emotionally, firmly state your issue with his behavior, and make him defend his actions. You have every reason to not believe him at this point, and his justifying bad behavior will make him see how ridiculous his arguments are.

If he satisfies you that his behavior is innocent or unintentional, reinforce that trust has been built. Let him know how you appreciate his honesty and respect for your boundary.

If you are not satisfied, it is logical to assume he was acting out in some way. In a calm voice call him on it and discuss what he can do to regain your trust if the situation arises again.

Keep repeating your boundaries and explain exactly why the behavior is damaging to you and to him. Try to stay calm and donít get too emotional. Most important, do not argue over technicalities ... these are your boundaries to feel safe, not his.

If a breach is a deal breaker, follow through with consequences that you are going to be able to enforce.

Always try to stay calm and unemotional. Be matter of fact ... he knows the history of his behavior. Itís a pretty safe bet that if the tables were reversed, he would not believe you. Explain that regaining your trust is going to take long term consistent, rational behavior.

It also helps to understand that the ramping up of emotions during these discussions is deflective behavior attempting to distract you from the subject at hand. Don't let him get you angry or bully you ... in hindsight I see this was my husbandís MO for most of our marriage. You will lose your focus and his respect. Be firm and demand his respect with your conviction and logic.

These are strategies that work for us. We rarely have these discussions anymore, but occasionally a situation will arise that we need to address.

Sorry if this elementary or rote, but these strategies have been life changing for me. Because of FOO issues, all my life I felt I was trying to dominate or control loved ones if I asked for accountability ... now I see what flawed logic this was and how it allowed others to manipulate me. I am a resonable woman, and I deserve to have my reasonable boundaries respected.

Hope this is helpful,
CWD




Posts: 349 | Registered: Oct 2008
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@brokenk-

I'm not good with boundaries and consequences either. I never learned this in my FOO, so this is a totally new skill for me. IMO dazed is correct- the key to boundaries is setting and enforcing consequences. Start small, never set a boundary & consequence you won't enforce. Because then the SA learns you don't have a backbone.


@ hatelying-

Don't believe what he says unless NC is verified independently by you. I hope for your sake he has done this & will follow it. Watch & wait & veriify.


@ dazedandconfuzed-
Thank you so much for posting the cuddling/noncuddling consequence. That has given me an idea of a boundary & consequence to set with my SA. MY SA took me off of our joint account back in late January. For the last three pay-periods (6 weeks) he has promised me 'we'll do it on x day', but it has never happened. Today I am going to say if I am not put back on the joint account by X day (this week) I will begin sleeping on a futon in our room or in the living room.

For input from all-

Does that sound ok? This has been driving me crazy & I'm putting my foot down. Better late than never I guess.


~ Sabina

[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 10:55 AM, March 13th (Sunday)]


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
DOH!  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ CWD-

Thanks for the timely description of how to have a boundaries & consequences discussion. I'll be having one of these today , so thank you very much!

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
brokenk
♀ Member
Member # 30193
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree I need to work on the consequences. Before we really knew (or accepted he was an SA) I set the boundaries and told them they were deal breakers. However, now knowing he's an SA and that relapses of a minor scale are going to happen I need to reevaluate the boundaries and consequences (not so much the boundaries but the consequences).

Working through the workshop, I no longer get angry with him when we discuss things. he confessed because I asked about something innocent dealing with the baby and he got defensive. I calmly just asked what are you feeling guilty about because you are being defensive over something very innocent. He then confessed. We talked for a while very calmy about what happened. I explained I understood he would have challenges and he hasn't reached the part of his workshop that gives him the skills to deal with them. But we still discussed his behaviour was unexceptable.

I need to think of something for the consequence that I can stand behind. I'd say sleeping on the couch because he hates it but that's when I found out he is watching soft porn instead. ARG! I like the cuddling idea. He hates when I wont sit on the same couch as him or wont let him hold me when we fall asleep at night so perhaps that's the way to go with this.

I know ihave created this by not standing behindmy consequence this time and just kicking him out, but i feel perhaps the consequence was too harsh concidering he is going to have to learn to work through these challenges. He did well stopping his behaviour this time and I did praise him for that, now he has to work on not participating in that behavior at all. We have decided to revisit boundaries and consequences in MC this Thursday and I think that is a good idea. Thank you all!

He even noted that he has seen such a huge change with me taking this workshop. That I no longer yell or get angry when he talks tome about what he has done and that he feels he can come to me more. It's even sparked him to take his workshop more seriously. The truth is I am just letting go trying to help him recover and focusing on myself. But in the mean time I have to protect myself and my family. He says he sees the old spark back in me and he is happy for that. Sadly it's there because I am preparing myself to move forward with or with out him.


Me(32)- BW
Him(36)-WH Evilgeek
1st Dday 11/20/09
2nd Dday 11/20/10
Successfully R`ed.
Found out we are Pregnant 12/6/2010

The best thing about the future is that it comes one day at a time.
Abraham Lincoln


Posts: 568 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: California
copingwithdoubts
♀ Member
Member # 21431
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sabina ... wow! It's like I read your post before I wrote mine. I'm pulling for you! Stay strong! It is really hard to break those old patterns, but so worth it. Even if he doesn't cooperate at first, you will feel strong and healthy! It's a heady feeling!




Posts: 349 | Registered: Oct 2008
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive me for posting so far behind everyone - the world has been a bit messy so I've stayed off the boards until I could make better sense of it. So here's me catching up a few posts at a time:

Tal:
Question: for those SAWSs whose acting out involved a lot of masterbation. Does this contribute to erectile dysfunction when trying to have real sex with a spouse?

In our case - yes. We thought it was his Type I diabetes, but that was only part of it. We asked his CSAT and he said even looking at porn w/o MB can cause it in some cases.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aisling, (I hope I spelled that right)

Here is my question - how likely is it that someone who has been entering into online discussions, photo swapping etc, via swingers and dating sites, has only begun recently meeting people and has only had sex once?

In my SA's case he had been surfing porn for a few years, and doing the dating/social/adult sites for two years, but he was physically sexual with two women.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 7:54 PM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone.
Well.....my SA and I are meeting this Saturday at marriage counseling for the first time since last year. For me, I told him, I just can't stay with someone who is lying to me. It will drive me crazy.

You all know I filed for D back in September and now we have to go to medaition for the kids. He is still wanting to R. I think because he has a high position in the church. Sadly, I think he will choose the church over me and the kids.

Guys, I just can't have him lying to me. He keeps doing things for me. He leaves stuffed animals in my car, etc. and is jealous when I am alone when he has the kids. Wondering what I am doing.

I am hurting so terribly right now. We would have been married 22 years in May. What the hell happened?

My gut is saying what you all tell me. Boundaries, Boundaries, Boundaries. I have been strong to implement them. He is still messaging OW. :( He is not in group. My IT says everyone is doing it now (cheating). Argh!!! I don't want to be here. I don't want a divorce, but I will give up my own self respect if I don't continue.
I am heartbroken. I can't live like this anymore.

The worst is that I still have guys hitting on me at work and when I am out and the only one I want is him. :(. Life is a journey I know. But this journey sucks!!!!


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
hatelying
♀ Member
Member # 31234
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, March 13th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Torn2bits: I relate more than I care to admit, but I haven't had the courage to enforce boundaries.


Married: 18 Years
D Day 1 - OW #1: 12/18/2010
D Day 2 - OW #2: 03/29/2011
D Day 3 - OW #3: 04/15/2011
Filing for divorce

"I'm the kind of woman that when my feet hit the floor, the devil says, "Oh crap, she's up!"


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2011
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 3:28 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought I would check in...I am back to JFO forum. Found out tonight there was more than porn and sexting/phone sex. There were prostitutes, an ex, a woman in a bar, and more drugs/alcohol than I first knew about.

This is not as bad as DD1 on 10/25/10, but tonight hurts...bad.

I have set the following requirements if R is ever a possibility:
IC...now
no porn...at all
no other women
no drugs
no alcohol
no more lies.

I know a firm 180 is in order, as well as continued counseling and self care, but I am floored.

Any wisdom appreciated.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

argh! {{{{bent44}}}}

I have no wisdom, but I have been through what you are going through.

I'm glad it doesn't seem as bad as the first Dday, but please do lots of your self-care things anyway. Sometimes it hits me later on. This past time when I discovered continued lying about SERIOUS issues, I found myself in a big chaotic funk and realized, "Oh, this is another Dday" and I started to treat myself more gently. The impact of what you have learned is overwhelming. I'm so sorry. more hugs {{{ }}}

Do you see a CSAT for you? Mine has helped me a lot. I don't see her as often as I'd like as she is a long way away. Also, do you attend a support group specifically for sex addiction partners? I have found that the phone list of S-anon people to call is a real help. Some times I just need that lifeline. It's been amazing to me to see others who are in my situation. I see their pain and mine feels shared. I see their experience and I resolve to try what helped them. I see their successes in making their own lives good ones, and I feel hope.

I am still a mess and can't catch up with everyone's posts yet, but I am reading and I care. Hugs to all {{{{{SPOSA}}}}}


Posts: 1059 | Registered: Aug 2010
Nouveau
Member
Member # 1731
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh God, bent44. I am so sorry. Is it ever really "just porn"???

When someone told me here a few months ago to not be surprised if I had only discovered the tip of the iceburg, I began to see she was probably right.

And there is probably even more that I didn't know about.


I sing the songs of a woman who has passed through anger and outrage to a kind of stunned resignation in the face of overwhelming human folly.....

Posts: 4895 | Registered: Jul 2003 | From: The great frozen tundra
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boundaries vs. Control
Boundries vs. "Dealbreakers"
Slips vs. Relapses

Previous work in other -anon programs have helped me a great deal with defining what a boundry is (as opposed to a "dealbreaker" or trying to excersize control over an addict).

Boundaries are for ME and define what I am and am not willing to do. A boundry, for example, would be that I am not willing be without a way to verify my husband's words at this time. For right now, I want to be able to check on his computer usage and phone usage if I want to. This is about me feeling safe and building trust. Boundaries can be flexible. There may come a day when I don't feel the need to have the option to look at what he's been doing. For now--I want monitoring software on the computer. If my husband does anything to disrupt that software (like try to delete it or reformat the hard drive) then I will no longer feel comfortable with him having a computer & internet in his home office.

Another boundary is no porn usage. If my husband starts buying porn or starts watching porn on the internet again, there will be a consequence. The consequence could be him moving into his home office & an in-house separation. It could be that I will need him to move out of the house completely if he relapses.

If he has a "slip", I will view that differently than a full-blown relapse. Say I get a Victorias Secret catalog in the mail and my husband finds it and uses it as a masterbation aid. He realizes that he's acting out & takes steps to work his program (calling his sponsor--giving me the catalog, etc.) I would consider that a slip.

A slip is acting out--but using his program to correct his course off of the slippery slope. A relapse is acting out & continuing to act out without taking steps to correct his course.

A boundary, to me, is different than a dealbreaker. I expect that there is a possibility that my husband may have some "slips" in early recovery. If he has a slip with porn, it will be crossing my boundaries & there will be a consequence. A dealbreaker for me would be acting out with a real woman. I would not be willing to continue living with him if he communicates with another woman in inappropriate ways, has secret female "friends", or engages in romantic/sexual activity with another woman.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband continues to go to meetings & is working with a sponsor.

Do any of you have experience with a spouse who identifies with being a sex AND love addict? My husband seems to think he has componants of both addictions.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
brokenk
♀ Member
Member # 30193
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tal

My husband also displays both traits, since his last affair was with a woman who was actively p ushing for them to have sex and he was the one saying no. At that time he really just wanted the admiration and ego stroke which is very like the love addict. Mine is also monogomus (sp?) with his affairs which is another trait of a love addict. He owuld only cheat with one other girl at a time, dumping another one to be with one that was more suitable to his needs.


Me(32)- BW
Him(36)-WH Evilgeek
1st Dday 11/20/09
2nd Dday 11/20/10
Successfully R`ed.
Found out we are Pregnant 12/6/2010

The best thing about the future is that it comes one day at a time.
Abraham Lincoln


Posts: 568 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: California
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That sounds familiar! From what I have seen of the patterns: the porn was acting out sexually. The women (in real life) were about playing Knight in Shining Armor & getting admiration/ego strokes. I know (from my own verification) that there was only sex once with OW#1, and not at all with OW#2. My H was fine with OW#2 being romantic, but got very uncomfortable & tried to pull back when she began wanting a sexual relationship.

OK--pieces of the jigsaw puzzle are starting to come together...


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
Tal
♀ Member
Member # 3300
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nouveau--SA is so individualized that it definately CAN be just porn.

One of the stories in the SA text (their version of the AA Big Book) is about a guy who was exclusively a porn addict.

My husband said he identifies himself as an SA at meetings, but says the words don't come out easily. One guy told him that he had the same problem at first--because his addiction was just to porn.

So yeah--it can be just that.


Posts: 2145 | Registered: Jan 2004
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, March 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When someone told me here a few months ago to not be surprised if I had only discovered the tip of the iceburg, I began to see she was probably right.

The same thing happened to me. I was so completely shocked that it would be anything else..then it was just "one" OA...and then TT until our final DDay. I'm glad that's done.

Tal,

I understand it can be just to porn too. My SA was at that level for the longest time. I think he became bored with it, lost the thrill of it I guess? Then moved onto other things from there until he realized he had a problem. He tried to stop acting out on his own but he wasn't able to stop surfing porn. He said he could white knuckle it for weeks and then just get bored or stressed one day and sit down in front of the computer and before he knew it, he was surfing again. He says that even while he was doing it, he knew he didn't want to but didn't know how to stop. I think that's what scares me about this so early into his recovery process. SA had (has?) so much power over him, it scares me to pieces sometimes. I want to have faith but it's just so soon!

Although, on a more positive note, I thought he'd been sober for 8 weeks, turns out it's been 10


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
bent44
♀ Member
Member # 31386
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, March 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If a drunk, drug-addicted, sex addict knocked on your door today and asked to come in and spend time with you and your daughter, would you let him?

This was a response from my post in the JFO forum that I cherish. I have put a post if on my mirror that says "If this is not the type of man I would want my daughter with, why the hell would I want him as a father/husband?"

Thanks to friends, we had a good day- they even made sure I ate.

WS says he has contacted a CSAT- we'll see what he does.

I have told him the man he is today doesn't make the grade. What he does with that is his choice. I am clearer now about what I want in my life than ever. Desperation no longer dogs me (momentarily anyway).

I still haven't given up that 5% of hope, but am not willing to sell my soul to get it, either.

May we all have sweet dreams.


"If you marry a chicken, don't expect an eagle."


I don't know if my chicken will ever become an eagle. But rest assured, I'm going to be a phoenix. Nevermind that I am still in the ashes stage of the process.


Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: California
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