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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 6
Mamato3
♀ Member
Member # 29624
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{ torn2bits }}}}

I think sometimes we need to give ourselves a break. We've been through a life-changing trauma, and some of us continue to have daily trauma. The emotional abuse involved in the trauma is horrific and confusing.

We wouldn't have married these men in the first place if we didn't have love and strong feelings for them, so when we want to show them this love and the SA disease steps in . . .well, it's just extra confusing and conflicting. Don't beat yourself up about wanting to give him a hug. Sounds like you're trying to figure out why you did want to do that. But you wouldn't be with him if you didn't have feelings for him, right?

For me, that's the suckiest, most confusing part of this disease. How can I love a man who would do these things to me? I'm lucky that he's working hard to stay sober and get into recovery. But if he weren't doing that, well, I don't know where I'd be.

SA is not a black and white situation, at least not for me.


Me - BW - 38
Him - FWH (and SA) - 39
2DDs (8&1), 2DSs (6&3)
1st D-day: 09.13.10 (admitted to EA)
2nd D-day: 01.31.11 (admitted to PA; almost two years with CW)
3rd D-day: 02.01.11 (admitted to more)
Working our SA/SAnon program

Posts: 64 | Registered: Sep 2010
momoffive
♀ Member
Member # 27352
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, July 20th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question about full disclosure -

How long am I looking at "not knowing" until SAWH works with CSAT to give me full disclosure.

In the angry heat of the moment tonight, I told him that I need full disclosure. I need to know, deserve to know and will need to know all, probably not all of the gory details, but the timeline of our marriage (who, what, when, where).

I'm tired of he and his counselor calling the shots...


BW 44, SAWH 45(sorry1)
M24 yrs
DD 23,16,13 DS 21, 18
Dday1-7/3/09 EA OW4
Dday2-9/1/09 PA OW4
Dday3 3/14/10 Farmville sexting, OW3
Dday4 3/13/11 Secret texting, would be OW5-she said no
Dday5 8/2/11 PA 10 years ago OW1, kissing 4 years ago OW2

Posts: 1123 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Pennsylvania
momoffive
♀ Member
Member # 27352
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, July 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I question him here of late he gives a standard reply of "I don't need to answer you right now"

Is sounds so scripted (which really makes me wonder if his CSAT would tell him what to say??)

It comes across as someone who's busted and won't talk without the presence of a lawyer.


BW 44, SAWH 45(sorry1)
M24 yrs
DD 23,16,13 DS 21, 18
Dday1-7/3/09 EA OW4
Dday2-9/1/09 PA OW4
Dday3 3/14/10 Farmville sexting, OW3
Dday4 3/13/11 Secret texting, would be OW5-she said no
Dday5 8/2/11 PA 10 years ago OW1, kissing 4 years ago OW2

Posts: 1123 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Pennsylvania
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Momoffive: My SAWH will not admit anything. It has been over a year. He has been in IC for 1 year. He says "what am I doing now". I have nothing.

I am tired of not knowing. I filed and it did wake him up a bit but he won't say a thing. He looks at women that look like her in front of me. I can see he is still attached to her emotionally. Its a horrible thing because I love him. I want him. He just wants to rug sweep and forget about it.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Revenge  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: full disclosure

My SAWH never got that far in CSAT group therapy, so I have no idea. Now he's clammed up. I wish I could help you with this one, but it isn't in the cards for me.

Sorry about that.

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Revenge  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: full disclosure

My SAWH never got that far in CSAT group therapy, so I have no idea. Now he's clammed up. I wish I could help you with this one, but it isn't in the cards for me.

Sorry about that.

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
sager
♀ Member
Member # 173
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, July 21st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: full disclosure... I do think it is imparative for full healing and trust. But i defined what is meant by "full" 'cause there are things that i frankly, do not want to know.

When my h was in recovery at first, getting any information was like pulling teeth. I eventually got as much as i wanted to know (mainly about if i was at risk). i knew about the phone bills because he wasn't very bright about hiding it.

In his most recent relapes, I got full disclosure in a matter of weeks. he started by lying when I asked directly, "Is there anything else that i do not know." But as he improved in his recovery, I didn't have to ask too many times before I got the whole truth.

Because denial is such a part of this disease, I think there have been times when even my husband did not have an understanding of the scope of his acting out.

Momof5... I think you are right that the CSAT has instructed him to say what he says. I would have hoped he would have said, "I can not discuss this with you at this time." i would ask if there is a plan in his recovery that he will disclose to you. His therapist may feel that he needs to have a greater understanding of what he has done before he talks to you.

I would also recommend that disclosure happen in a theraputic setting so that YOU have support and that the information is presented clearly. We did not do that the first time and i became truly suicidal.....

SAH and i are doing really well at this point. We have been going to MC and our communication is better than it has been in years. I'm pretty sure he is going to resign his job instead of going to arbitration. I think in the long run that is the right decision. But I am really worried about him finding another job in this economy and especially about health insurance. I just keep believing that all of this is happening for i reason and that all will become clear at some point. It is equally possible that he will find a great job as it is that he will not find one at all. Gotta stay positive!

Hugs to all my sisters living with SA.

Sager


married 21 yr.
d-day #1 8/17/01
d-day #2 7/9/11
3 children - 20, 18, and 16
H in addiction recovery
"Well-behaved women do not make history."

Posts: 1192 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: Upstate NY
Eudaimonia
♀ Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 2:08 AM, July 22nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm having a hard time finding S/P of SA1?

I have been popping in and out here on 6 randomly lurking for a few weeks now.

I was once a disbeliever in SA. No more.

I've posted my story/updates elsewhere on the SI forum. (personally, I like when I can be updated when there is a response and the other sections are easier to navigate). But, long story short: Numerous As of ALL shapes and sizes (literally). MASSIVE TT (ongoing). And lies lies lies for 10 years.

Yet, here I am. Why? Wtf is wrong with me?

WH is seeing a CSAT twice a week and I am seeing the CSAT once a week. WH wants to be a different man. WH is horrified with what he has done. WH wants to be a man deserving of me as opposed to who he has been. Still, why do I even consider that option? Me, who has scoffed at SA "hey, everyone loves sex, right? Aren't we all really SA?". After reading a bunch of books and listening carefully to what the other SA spouses have said on here, I think much differently.

I have so much more to say, but I am so overwhelmed with it all that I don't think I can clearly express myself.

That being said, I guess my main concern at the moment is what momoffive said:

How long am I looking at "not knowing" until SAWH works with CSAT to give me full disclosure.

This is killing me right now. His CSAT has made it very clear to him that full FULL disclosure is the FIRST thing that needs to be done. However, it needs to go through him first. I guess that's fair enough, I trust his CSAT, but what if he is lying to him too (which is minimally what he may be doing)?

Thank you all for being here. Really. I haven't read the whole 6 thread, but I read enough to see that I am amongst my peers and hopefully friends.


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 22nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Truth, totally identify with evverything you said.

Today wh called the csat our mc referred him to. Thats a good sign.

Last night we went through disclosure. It was like pulling teeth, and i confronted when i knew he was holding back. I told him as a result i still didnt feel like there was total disclosure, and things i called him on revealed i had access to things in his email and phone. His world came crashing down and i think he began to really see he had a huge problem.

After any confrontation and disclosure, i have learned from si THAT is the time for surveillance, when they will further cover his tracks. He reopened an email account he thought he shut down, probably to check if there was stuff in there and requested support to shut it down for good. In the meantime, i checked his web search history with that account and found evry that suppported what he to,d me, and then some. The latest searches were about glory holes and where to find them locally. Im going to be sick.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
Mamato3
♀ Member
Member # 29624
Default  Posted: 1:59 PM, July 22nd (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm lucky in that I think I know everything. Full disclosure happened quickly. In fact, I asked him to tell his family (parents, brother, and SIL) and he told them everything too.

I know DETAILS because I wanted to know details. For me, it helped me feel like I had some control back. (And, yes, control is one of my character defects. I'm dealing with this through my S-Anon steps).

At first, it came out like vomit. He just spilled his guts. Then as I had questions, he seemed to feel frustrated, but our MC helped him understand that it was helping me to know things. Now when I have a question, he doesn't hesitate to answer me. He might tell me he doesn't remember certain details, but he's open to the idea of answering me. And he doesn't act frustrated like he used to when I had a nit-picky question to ask him. For me, that shows he's open to full disclosure.

I'm trying to not be a fool and assume that at some point the other shoe won't drop, but I'm also trying to live in the present (this is very hard for me b/c I love thinking about the past). Baby steps.


Me - BW - 38
Him - FWH (and SA) - 39
2DDs (8&1), 2DSs (6&3)
1st D-day: 09.13.10 (admitted to EA)
2nd D-day: 01.31.11 (admitted to PA; almost two years with CW)
3rd D-day: 02.01.11 (admitted to more)
Working our SA/SAnon program

Posts: 64 | Registered: Sep 2010
momoffive
♀ Member
Member # 27352
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, July 24th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Boy I am in such a mood...

The other day discovered a different e-mail account started by SAWH... in post in General title Grrrr.

Find him watching TV/movies and it really pisses me off when the scantily clad women are in it and he just continues watching it (it was made known to me that visuals on TV/movies/internet is one of many problems for SAWH).

And I'm still reeling from my discovery last Sunday that there were multi sexual interactions with multiple women...something he has always denied and lied about.

Yes, I'm in a mood.


BW 44, SAWH 45(sorry1)
M24 yrs
DD 23,16,13 DS 21, 18
Dday1-7/3/09 EA OW4
Dday2-9/1/09 PA OW4
Dday3 3/14/10 Farmville sexting, OW3
Dday4 3/13/11 Secret texting, would be OW5-she said no
Dday5 8/2/11 PA 10 years ago OW1, kissing 4 years ago OW2

Posts: 1123 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Pennsylvania
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I only have a second, but I wanted to share a resource about disclosure.

Google Jennifer Schneider and disclosure. I believe there are a couple of articles or studies on disclosure and the process as well as different approaches to disclosure and their outcomes to a marriage and family.
IMO a full disclosure should only be done with a CSAT facilitating.

Honestly, until a SA is in therapy for a while, they will be in denial even with themselves as far as all of their activities, so it should happen soon but definitely not at the beginning of therapy.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
Mamato3
♀ Member
Member # 29624
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{momoffive}}}} Just sending hugs. I'm sorry. :(

--------

I have a question that maybe y'all can help me with -- maybe a book or something I can read?

How do I understand what's OK in terms of our sex life? I worry that I'm enabling him some of the time. Like having sex with him when I know it's been a few days and he probably "needs it."

Or should I just be OK with thinking that as long as I'm enjoying it, that I'm OK with doing it, that it's OK? I'm always the one to initiate b/c he doesn't feel like he's earned that right back yet. I often wonder if I hold that power over him.

It's been interesting to learn that like S-Anon explains, I did think sex=love. It's freaking confusing too.

Nothing is "normal" anymore, is it?


Me - BW - 38
Him - FWH (and SA) - 39
2DDs (8&1), 2DSs (6&3)
1st D-day: 09.13.10 (admitted to EA)
2nd D-day: 01.31.11 (admitted to PA; almost two years with CW)
3rd D-day: 02.01.11 (admitted to more)
Working our SA/SAnon program

Posts: 64 | Registered: Sep 2010
Ariel
♀ Member
Member # 32790
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Find him watching TV/movies and it really pisses me off when the scantily clad women are in it and he just continues watching it (it was made known to me that visuals on TV/movies/internet is one of many problems for SAWH).

Hey there, momoffive - I'm going to be very blunt here. He is not ready to get well. I'm so sorry, but an SA that is truly committed to recovery would not continue to "act out" in this sort of way, by exposing himself deliberately to sexual images and triggers.

If you think of SA as a form of addiction, like alcoholism, drugs, etc., the only way that these addictions are conquered is if the "substance" is removed.

Now, I realize that in our society, sexual imagery and connotation is all around us - everywhere. But for the serious SA, they avoid it at all possible costs. They do not deliberately watch or look at this that provoke their addiction. That would be like an recovering alcoholic spending his Friday night in a bar, trying not to drink.

I feel your pain. It's very hard to accept this, especially when he "appears" to be making an effort by seeing a CSAT.

My husband has been in a 12-step program for 8 years, all along making me believe that he was really trying. In reality, he wasn't. He was continuing to act out, even when he would come home from his meetings.

SA's can lie and deny really well - especially over time.

Oh my precious sister...as much as it hurts, you must look at the facts and realize that he's not "truly" wanting to get well at this time, even though it may seem like he is.

If he is unwilling to give you the information and things that you need to heal, then he is not thinking about you. He is only thinking of himself and trying to cover his bases.

You've already been dealing with this for many years already. How far have you really gotten in this "recovery" time?

My opinion is that if someone really wants something badly enough, they will do ANYTHING to fix it, heal it, repair it, keep it.

Take my words or leave them...I've just been down this road far too long and I've FINALLY be awakened......

PM if you want to or write to me at the BAN address, or call me on the cell # that you have. I'm here.


Looking forward to heaven and finally being out of this hell.

Posts: 69 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: PA
NOTINKANSAS
♀ Member
Member # 31199
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, July 25th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

momoffive,
Ariel made a lot of good points. He not only has to WANT to change, he has to stop all SA behaviors. I only have my own husband as a comparison, but once he stopped acting out in other ways besides the cheating (porn, swimsuit magazines, attractive joggers, tv images, etc...) he started coming around, and once he was out of his delusional SA world, he could see with clarity the destruction that he caused and he was HORRIFIED. Sickened, disgusted, remorseful, all of that. I just don't think the SA can really begin recovery until they "snap out of it" and you will definitely be able to see the difference! Just my opinion from my own experience. You are recovering, too, and he's not keeping up with you at this point. It might take you leaving him behind for him to see what he's caused. Even if he doesn't begin his own recovery, you just keep moving forward. Either he will join you or he won't.


I'm 33
He's 31
Recovering from SA
4 kids
D-Day 01-06-11 (Husband confessed sex 2x in 2009 with "trashy" girl from the ghetto)
D-Day 2 May 7, 2011 (confessed the rest of the betrayals)

Posts: 234 | Registered: Feb 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tootrusting, thanms for that. I will read the articles. This was a preliminary disclosure, i know we will have a "real" one with the csat later. I just needed an idea of what i am dealing with and how much he is leaving out that i know of now. He has his initial csat evaluationtoday. I hope it goes well. I have told him we can put off mc until he gets it figured out how many meetings and such he needs to go to for that. Of course we know that is standard procedure, but he thinks i am making concessions, lol.

I just hope he is more honest with them than me.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 9:42 AM, July 26th (Tuesday)]


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1402 | Registered: Jun 2011
mamabekay
♀ Member
Member # 32295
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was actually coming in here to ask the same question mamato3 did yesterday about sex...how do we know what's ok and what's feeding into their addiction?
I will be the first to admit that I have some decidedly non-vanilla sexual proclivities. I enjoyed most of it before I ever met my h, and I am comfortable with my sexual preferences. I've never done anything I regret or am embarrassed about, except my single ons. Which I only regret in that neither he nor I intended it to be a ons...it just happened that we never had a chance to be together again.
Anyhoo...where is the line between "normal variety" in our sex life and "pathological sex", or me joining him in his addiction? I mean to ask our csat tomorrow, but I wants to bounce off of others living with an addict.


Me-BS-28
Him-SAWS-30
four kids (mine & ours) 9,5,3,15months
Dday 13 May 11 and the TT keeps coming.

Posts: 297 | Registered: May 2011 | From: the Rockies
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regarding the sex issue; I believe that from what I have read it has to do with at what stage your SA is in recovery. If they are able to "learn" that sex is more than a pain reliever then you are not part of their addiction.

Many, many posts before this one in the last thread there was a discussion on this. I recall someone's CSAT telling them to have more and more sex with their SA. The Carnes books says the abstinence period is good for the SA,so.....again at what stage in recovery is he.

My SA is so very angry. Angry all the time. I have not idea why he is always angry and argumentative with me. Its horrible. He can't even have a 3 sentence conversation with me without bringing me his anger. He is NOT this way with others, including those at his church, just me.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 11:08 PM, July 26th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question of sex:

If you are asking, then most likely YOU aren't feeling intimate.
If you don't feel ok with sex, at any given time, then it doesn't matter the reason your SAH is interested (acting out or real).

Try to focus on your own feelings about sex and get a real answer to whether it is a healthy thing to do right now for YOU.

I made a decision 2 yrs ago to NOT have sex (with SAH) if I had any question come up into my head. Kept me celibate for about 14 months but much happier and more sure that I decide where I stand sexually and no one else.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
Eudaimonia
♀ Member
Member # 32445
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, July 27th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

about sex...how do we know what's ok and what's feeding into their addiction?

I totally want to know this too, specifically: what sorts of uhm, activities cross the line.

I asked his CSAT and he echoed the other posters here in response in that it depends on what stage you are in, but made it very very clear that my WH and myself were VERY VERY new to this, and haven't even really started recovery at all since recovery doesn't actually begin until my WH hands over the official timeline disclosure (next Thursday).

That being said, I asked his CSAT specifically whether say, watching porn together would be a no-no (I just couldn't think of any other examples at the time). His CSAT said that being as my WH is where he is in the progress (i.e. not at all yet) that: anything other than complete attention to me (BS ToG) in an intimate, loving way is to be isolated. He gave an example of his own: He said that my SAWH was not even to fantasize about other women while we .....well, you know.

He applauds us for having been as intimate as we have been (which has been quite a lot ), but he wants no mistake about it: WH is to think about me and only me when we do it. So, he may have triggers if we say, tie each other up (example). Our CSAT wants us to stay away from that for now, just in case. My WH is not ready for anything. It makes sense. I'm open to all suggestions though. But I have to say, I really really like his CSAT.


So long, and thanks for all the fish!

Posts: 472 | Registered: Jun 2011
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