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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 23
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Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to quit, you know? I just want to find myself a nice little house to rent nearby, focus on the kids and my job, and let this constant anger and struggle go.

He tried to ruin my vacation by getting drunk and getting all in my face and screaming that our marriage has always been shitty for him because I "can't take a joke" and shoving me -- he ruined The Pasha's birthday by dragging us around for a "quick stop" to pick up some sort of live rock that wound us up at the airport for over an hour at kid's dinner time and then didn't show up for the Pasha's birthday party at all. He called me a '76 maverick to the nanny's porsche on Christmas Eve and then picked a fight with me at the dinner table on Christmas Day, instead of a birthday party, The Pharaoh wanted to go bowling with OW's kids and some kids of one of WH's friends but he never called his friend to set it up and I don't have the guy's number so that little dude didn't get a birthday party at all . . . now this. And this is like a ten-year pattern. I think a huge part of my "yes" to him going is the long tradition of WH attending = special occasion ruined.

Also, I've written before about how you have to clean up your life when you've been diagnosed with a mental illness (or an addiction for that matter) and it takes time after you're healthy to unscrew-up some of what happened before.

And a big part of me feels like, given the totality of the circumstances, I just need to let this relationship go to be fully well.

Then again, part of me thinks, maybe I should make more efforts in other areas (like MAJOR 180) and see if I can be happy within the marriage once those things have been accomplished.


Paddy has learned to crawl for real! and she's close to being able to walk with a walker. Also, she can stand on her own for a few seconds at a time. Her PT thinks she'll be discharged from PT before she's two. Her skills were in the 6 to 8 months age range when she started PT two months ago and now they are in the 11 to 12 month range.

It's nice for the PT too -- she was saying it's just such a pleasure to come because Paddy is so sweet and works so hard and it's not often that they get to see such amazing progress. She's totally awesome! She's super-star baby! She's very proud of herself too, which is really cute. Every time she shows off a new skill we get a big "I did it!" Yeah, she speaks in full sentences at 11 months. Baby genius.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH attending = special occasion ruined
m3 - This is totally unacceptable. This is a grown man we're talking about, right?? When does he plan to start putting his wife and family ahead of his own selfish desires?? You're not asking him for the moon, you're asking him to be a part of his daughter's first birthday celebration! You're not asking for him to buy her a pony, just to have his happy ass at the party that YOU have done all the work for?

Yes...let go of the anger and certainly let go of the drama that this man creates for you. It's time for him to grow up. He can do that on his own while you're taking care of yourself and your kids. If he cleans up his act and you're still in a place where you are interested in being with him, then go for it. If not, then it's his loss.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Ask Strongish to re-read you the 4 questions, two each, about PLEASURE and SAFETY from "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay."

Sounds like you have 6 birthdays annually in your household -- plus Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, vacation(s), etc. In retrospect, what's GOOD about these family events? What are your expectations for yourself and your family?

ETA: Does alcohol/drugs factor into special (or daily) events?

[This message edited by ladies_first at 3:32 PM, March 7th (Monday)]

"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2113 | Registered: Jun 2009
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Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Great progress report on BP, thanks!

let this constant anger and struggle go

very good advice

focus on the kids and my job

more good advice, and sounds like the 180

I agree with your advice. Implement a 180, even if this does mean finding yourself

a nice little house to rent nearby
for awhile. Let go of Mr. L223344, and work towards what you want for you and your children. Focus on this for a few weeks, or a few months, and then check to see where he is. I suspect he will be in the same spot or drifted further away from you. If this is the case, then you will know that you will only reluctantly have his attention and participation in his family when you nag or guilt-trip him.

I just need to let this relationship go to be fully well.

I get this too. FWW and I talk alot about our fear that "dysfunctional" us loved each other, but what if healthy us do not? What if what attracted us to each other were the unhealthy aspects of our personalities? To some extant, this is true, but so far it does not look like this is going to be an issue for us. Maybe it is for you and FWS?

getting drunk and getting all in my face and screaming that our marriage has always been shitty
shoving me
didn't show up for the Pasha's birthday party at all
called me a '76 maverick to the nanny's porsche
picked a fight with me at the dinner table on Christmas Day

Seriously, what are the positives beyond material things?



FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So....MIL finally called today to tell me how much she and FIL love and support me. Background.....FWH told his Dad several weeks ago about LTA and at that time FIL said that he expected he would "have" to tell his W, (MIL). I've been feeling pretty hurt and frankly was angry that there had been no words of support to me, from them. Then FWH tells me that he's not really sure if FIL told MIL and I'm thinking, what's worse....that she knows and doesn't call or that FIL won't tell his wife that their son was such an a$$? Fast forward to last week...FIL's birthday and I just can't bring myself to have to put on the pollyanna act for both of them so FWH takes them to lunch on his own. He agrees to tell his mom himself about the LTA so that she doesn't think I'm just being a b___. He tells her at lunch today and she called me this afternoon. In some ways it would be easier if she hadn't called...I could keep my anger, but she did. Said all the right things, until she said how she hoped I could "get past" this. Whatever. She asked if I was upset with them, I told her that I was hurt that I hadn't heard anything from them since FWH talked to his Dad alone. She said that she just heard that we were having "problems" and didn't know what to say. Whatever.

I'm going to take a page out of my own book and work to let this go. It hurts, it does, but it just helps explain why FWH is so emotionally constipated. I get more support from virtual strangers (Tribe) than I do from the two people that have been like parents to me for 28+ years. It makes me sad.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Henny, I think any site like that is good to look at.

strongish.. My MIL was great too. She was hurt too.

M3, I just canceled a meeting the night my daughter bday 3/24. I didn't forget but thought I could squeeze it in... nope. My w said, what are you doing? I said, i cancel. LOL.. oops.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't be too hard on your in laws. It sound as if they were in the dark for a while and finding out that your son is a cheater does take some getting used to.
It may take a while for them to process all of this.
And...since I'm the one that told everyone about the LTA...I can attest to the fact that everyone reacts to the news in different ways.
And, some people just have no words to comfort you with...but, truly do feel awful.

m33- Sorry that your husband behaved in such a selfish way.
Did he realize the date?
Or is he completely insensitive to the importance of the date?
Did you talk to him about it?
What did he say?
Or...have you decided to drop it for now and just focus on yourself and your children?
So sorry for your pain......

Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA

Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3- The way you described him, he sounds like a total a-hole.

But it was only a little while ago you were saying you saw him turner a corner.

What's going on? Any ideas?

Also - are the examples you gave representative of him since DDay or the exception?

I say step back to evaluate. 180. But when you step back and see an a-hole, no amount of 180 is gonna change that in my opinion.

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3, I posted a reply to your former post before I read the last one, and edited the whole thing.
Looking at the whole picture, I take back my post! Let your WH get in line with the others and we'll get that baseball bat Deep has!!

But, I am soooo happy to hear the news about Baby Paddy!! Good for her! Wonderful happy news!!

Allgood, being alone is a hard thing when you are so used to being with someone else, especially since that someone was the same person all these years. Any kind of change is difficult whether it's for the good or bad. This is what Miracle talks about with taking the path of least regret. Would you rather continue living with WH with the way things are going, or be alone and have peace of mind?


[This message edited by honesttoafault at 7:21 PM, March 7th (Monday)]

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish, I'm sorry you are feeling hurt about your MIL's reaction. It could possibly be that she feels embarrassed and maybe even ashamed of her son that he treated you this way. Some people don't know what to say and especially when it's your child that did something so terrible. When she says she hopes you "get over it" I don't think she's minimalizing,but hoping that you will not leave. You are part of the family too, and she probably doesn't want to lose you.

Ats, a very good point about if you and FWW fell in love with a dysfunctional side of the other and you discussed this. The fact that you were able to discuss this, means that you both are not THAT dysfunctional KWIM But that is wonderful that you guys are communicating so well. You two have walked down a very arduous journey and helped each other greatly, which I think has brought you closer.

I'm a little better today. I'm going to follow Miracle's advice and put a routine for ME. Of course this includes my responsiblities, and things that I have to do, but I can plan it better. I think for me I like routine, but freedom and creativity within that routine KWIM?


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Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is what Miracle talks about with taking the path of least regret. Would you rather continue living with WH with the way things are going, or be alone and have peace of mind

I do not want to be alone. But I'm not going to live with WH.

Honest: How about going back to school?

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strong: i am glad she came through for you...and she really did...not calling you when she heard you were having "problems" is actually being a good mil...its means she is respecting your privacy and probably waiting to hear from you should you wish to confide in sitting back and waiting was a good thing...

and the minute she found out what it was, she called you and said everything one would and could hope for ....she sounds like a good did she produce the son though...makes me worry for my own kids...

m3: ok hon, take a step back, a giant one and breathe.....he's done a lot of shitty things....and i wish i could say that was all done, but the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior..not to mention present tense behavior...

m3 you are in the middle of selling a home, this could be a golden opportunity to make a cleaner break then otherwise would be....i think its something to consider....while i do not walk in your shoes....i do know what i would have given for that 20/20 hindsight...and right now you can give yourself that gift and if you decide to stay then you can take many steps to protect yourself, your kids and i think you need consider every option...

i know that leaving him while may not be a viable solution where your kids are concerned....that does not mean that he gets total control on what you do as a protect yourself and your kids asap....

mr m3 is in a pure love of ego mode...and is feeding it voraciously...

honest: i agree with allgood, go back to school and get that masters...take advantage of your sich such as it is and use the bastard to further yourself....there are no jobs now, but that does not mean that once you are done the jobs wont still be there....

and think about expanding your education, making you even more of an special ed....

allgood: i get how you feel, and i admire the strength and resolve you have..and can also understand the anguish, the sadness and the pure unadulterated anger.....your emotions must be on overload...none of them positive...(((allgood)))

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 3:19 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all


He's a fucktard and MUST put his family first.


As above


Your MIL is probably ashamed and unsure what to say. It probably took courage for her to call. Without experience of infidelity she may be doing her best.


You need to focus on YOUR life honey. Take care of yourself


Honey you are doing amazingly well. I was still in the foetal position at your stage!!!


Checked out Aruba on the net. Looks fabulous!!! Promise me you'll stay with him at least until after the trip And don't forget to take some pics for us (but no people please so we don't get banned! )


Keep those words of wisdom coming for others. They help me too!!!

(((((((((((Rest of the tribe)))))))))

Reading but don't have time to comment for everyone. Sorry. I know miracle will look after you all and she's cleverer than me at this shit anyway

Aunt sinking fast. Probably be tonight. I am finding it so hard. She is the image of my mum who you may remember died a week before dday. People used to think they were twins. I found out about the As 2 days after mum's funeral. I actually often resent the fact that I never really had a chance to mourn mum dying (even though she meant the world to me).

Anyway. Miracle I agree, he has earnt his "f". Henceforth he will be known as FWH. (Fucking wayward husband when he fucks up, former wayward husband when he gets it right )

He has been great the last few days. Together we have visited my aunt and OW2 has scuttled away whenever she has seen us. (He was really annoyed by her behavior the other day!)

Love to all of my adopted family. You are wonderful. Please take care of yourselves


[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:23 AM, March 8th (Tuesday)]

Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
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Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.

Well, we went over the agreement page by page last night for over an hour. No arguing, no attitude, no relationship like stuff.

I think it's all worked out. Not that he's feeling good about it - he's definitely of the opinion that he's getting screwed, but is doing a good job hiding it, which works for me.

Last week, when I was slightly more optimistic about our relationship and a little intoxicated we had "no strings attached" sex, at my suggestion. This was a bad idea I realize. But at the time, I joked that we could do that, even while separated because I only just realized how much std is out there and we could continue that until I found someone who did not have herpes.

A few days later I very seriously withdrew that offer.

So, he must not be too angry with me, because after we reviewed the agreement, he asked how long I planned to go without sex.

I have to admit it felt pretty good throwing his words back at him when I said "I don't have a plan."

But, still, the temptation is there...

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All
I appreciate all the kudos.
Saw the IC yesterday. A dear friend too who has been out of town for this time since DDay... 9 frickin' days ago.
It was so good on both accounts to share, spill, sit in it all and it brought me to a tough night.
WS is in SanDiego and I had to ask about some stuff and call him on something.
In the middle of the night on the first night of DDay, I woke up from my 2 minutes of sleeping and gathered some things including my wedding ring, a silver anatomically correct heart I made him for our 25th, and a couple of other things I couldn't bare to see or be with because of the depth of everything.
I said "put these away. I can't even look at them." So off he goes on the business trip and I realize that those things are sitting right where I put them in our spare room. I told him that I had scheduled our housekeeper today and not for a moment did he remember those things sitting out upstairs. I felt it was so thoughtless. Those things are looming in my life with loss and all of this and he told me he was in avoiding mode and that let them leave them right where I put them.
I also asked him about oral sex and the OW X? because he told me "I always wore a condom." Well, good luck with that and oral sex on OW! He has always liked giving oral sex to women... and now I know and I was heartsick all over again.
Yeah I guess this up and down stuff will be going for awhile.
Hope this is not TMI. I just needed to share.

[This message edited by Henny at 11:29 AM, March 8th (Tuesday)]

DDay Feb 26 2011
26 yrs M
11+ yrs of cheating
Two solid attachments
Working on R or so I thought.
False R 05.20.2011 and again in August. He moved out Mid Nov.
Have despair.
Don't want to be here.
Second separation and this may be it.

Posts: 104 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago
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Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Henny - Share away. That's exactly what we're here for.

Laura - I am so, so glad to hear that your fWH has stepped up and has gone with you to be with your spite of OW2. It says alot that he is pissed at HER! All too often the WS gets angry at the BS, not the AP! It like that he's mad at her!

Allgood - You're doing a tremendous job of keeping it together. Calm, at least semi-rational talks about the agreement will not only be easier on you, but will help him to see that you're not just doing this out of emotion, but that it has been well-thought out and you have made your decision.


Honest - I think you're on the right track with starting to get yourself in a routine. Make sure that every day you're doing something, no matter how small, that makes you smile. For me it's getting lunch at a drive-thru. I don't know why but it feels so decadent to be eating fast food without any kids with me!! I don't have to share the ketchup!! I find my routine to be soothing and honestly, some days having to get dressed to go out to Starbucks is the only reason I get out of bed.

Hugs to the Tribe.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
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Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


this will be so hard for you, my heart aches for you...take this time and grieve for all that was have truly endured so are amazing in your capacity to give, to love, to come out of the worst sich's.....and i know you know this time will pass as does take the time you need to greive, really grieve and let your fws help you through it this time...he already seems to be steppin up to the plate....

aruba is beautiful...went with pfm and friend many many moons ago...keep us posted fun

allgood: you did good....and this may surprise you but if you know for a fact that he not having sex with any other...and you could completely detach emotionally...i say use the sucker and enjoy it....i personally cannot detach, otherwise i would...and i have the added issue of being the hole in there, for me it is such a nogo....but for you....remember though the detachment is necessary and if drinking opens up the emotions then don't drink and drive him....

henny: i am so happy that you connected irl with your helps, all support helps....

and brace yourself the rollercoaster takes many ups, downs, upside downs, curves and twists.....with your heart at the center of it remember to breathe through it all and remember that it will pass, whatever funk you get into- it will pass, you will get to the other side.....sometimes its easy to get lost in it, and getting out of bed period is something you not only don't want to do, but you want to stay in your bed forever or at least until its all done....and those days can get really dark....and remember si is 24/7.....and reach out to your irl friends cannot have enough support...the more the long as it is support and not others trying to influence you on what to do, except of course being the best you..

you really are amazing though, most of us were totally walking zombies if we were walking.....where you feel like you are walking through this surreal state of mind and hear people without hearing them, you see things without really seeing feel almost if any of this sounds familiar or if it does occur...please know its not only normal but most importantly it is SURVIVALFUL....(new word)

as for asking questions....always remember once you hear the answer you cannot unhear it, so make sure you really want to know.....i was one that needed to know everything and there are many who just knowing it happened is enough, because living with the mind movies is another torture.....

and i am sorry if i am making this all sound so much worse...i am trying to prepare you, you are still so new & raw.....if does happen, and maybe you will be one of lucky ones and it won't happen...but if it does, its important that somewhere in your mind you know that there is a way out of the abyss you seem to feel...

for us on the lta end there is so so much more to absorb then for those with the ons's, or limited time a's....and it takes T I M E....

i hated that word in the beginning, and truth be told there are still days i hate the word.....but i love my life, minus my ws of course....but i love my life.....and i love exploring new ways to be the best me i can be....the best me is is a happy me....

ok....nuff ramblins....sorry henny


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get it. It would be easier to just throw in the towel, say "F it" and be done. It looks obvious from my vantage point that you're not at the end of your rope yet because you're still in there fighting.

I'm going to try a tryn-ism here. What if you gave all the facts and responsibility for his actions to Mr. m3? Laying out your boundary "I will only be married to someone who is present and civil at family birthdays and holidays" and then letting him figure out how he's going to be that guy???

(tryn? Am I pointing my ship in the right direction?)

Meanwhile, HOORAY for baby Paddy!!!

In Boyo news, we saw the pediatrician yesterday, who said that Boyo1 is on the range for both ADD and ADHD and suggested (1) medication and/or (2) behavioral therapy. We're going to start with (2) and see where we get with that. Of course he was going to suggest medication. If you've got a hammer, everything's a nail, right? (Right, WH? Hee hee.)

On turning my ship around and inserting myself back into this marriage... I'm pretty proud of myself for two reasons.

(1) I (felt like I) put myself on the line yesterday to ask Mr. Nell if he would set aside that evening to spend some "quality time" with me. (He spent Friday through Sunday working, hanging out with his friend and napping.) He agreed and then asked what I wanted to do, he came up with the idea to play a game, he went to the store and bought my favorite beer, and brought up the game again (when a show he doesn't particularly like came on). For my part, I was very nice... thanked him soooooo much for remembering my favorite beer and going out to buy it, gave him a couple of compliments, was very touchy-feely, and repressed a couple of really high-quality snarks. In return, WH was happy and I had a nice evening.

(2) This morning on his way out the door WH mentioned again cutting back his hours at work so he could focus on getting his business started. This follows his asking me for my opinion on doing that, and (upon my request) him putting together a spreadsheet that shows very clearly that we cannot do that without making some serious cut-backs. He said we could do it in the short-term (does not indicate how) and "in fact, I think we can't afford NOT to do it." Ummm... okay. Setting THAT justification aside completely, I told him that I would, in that case, like to talk about what we're going to cut back to make that happen. He agreed, then said he's not going to say anything today but he would like to talk to his boss tomorrow. Here's where I'm going to steer my ship in a different direction: Instead of getting into the nuts and bolts, I'm going to try something rather revolutionary. I'm going to try to talk to him about his feelings of what money MEANS to him (money = status and respect) and tell him my feelins of what money MEANS to me (money = security) in the hopes that if he can understand where we're both coming from (feelings) that we can come up with a mutually-satisfying solution, as opposed to having yet another pointless argument about who is wronger.

BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
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Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, you have a PM.

BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
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Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, March 8th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and if drinking opens up the emotions then don't drink and drive him....

Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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