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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 23
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to those who noticed I was #1. It took a lot of effort to get that ranking.


You really do make me laugh. Thanks for my first smile of the day.
Now, just a question for everyone here. Has anyone bought a V's day card for their S or received one? Just curious to see everyone's thoughts on cards for this day.
As I said, I tried but didn't succeed yesterday. My H bought me one that once again proves he's in lala land especially the line in his card that said, Thank you for being that woman I love and for loving me with all your heart. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I loved him with all my heart.
Oh well, maybe it's a good thing he thinks it's true.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf.

So I gave you your first smile of the day! That makes me #1 again!

My W did not want me to get her anything this V day. I told her yesterday I did not even have her a card. She said I could just make her one. I used to do that sometimes. I guess I could start with the words I wrote in my last post. I just hope I can remember to leave out the fuckn, cheatn, bitch part.

I do have to say that at least your H tried when he bought that card. I wonder if it is as hard for the WS to pick out a card for a BS as it is for us to pick one for them?

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That makes me #1 again!

Dip - you are on a roll.
And yes, at least my H did try and has continued to try even when I seem ungrateful for his efforts. Maybe I'll go out and pick up something nice for dinner.
Hey, I don't know if your weather is as good as ours is supposed to be today but looks like it might be an excellent day to grill. Any suggestions?


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((nell)))

it is so hard when others disappoint us as well, even if its a harmless act, the disappointment somehow seems bigger...had this been any other normal time prior to d-day the disappointment would not have been so deep.....

normal: we no longer have a normal, we have to reinvent normal.....and this is tough since so many of us are living day to day with reminders or spouses that are not steppin up, or knowing what could have been......

but what could have been needs to go away, it serves no purpose...we only really have what is.....


laura the flowers are beautiful, much more so then the ones i did recieve yesterday, the florist apparantly delivered them a day early....i left them on the counter, once i read the card i wanted nothing to do with them......so i walked away....i should have just put them in the garbage right away, because that is how i felt, instead i left them and pfm came home and took them out and put them in a vase......i told him it was a waste of money....i no longer want flowers from him....they mean nothing...too little way way too late......oh well....

tryn: the million dollar question..

Why is it so hard for us all to move forward?

for most of us its because our ws's are super deficient human beings who are unable to do what it takes...

for you, for njgal...you are both moving forward, even though the pace is slow..IT IS STEADY.....

we do have the power though....and its the hardest thing to do....to actually let go....for those of us still in the relationships or stuck in the relationships whatever stage they are in its difficult to let go, because the hurts seem to be unending....there always seem to be new hurts, no matter how small, it still hurts, keeping the wound open and bleeding.....

from this we each need to figure out what will not only stop that bleeding but do it....and sometimes the "doing" is just not that simple, easy or even doable for whatever reasons.....

but setting the goals does help, it gives us the power back, to see that light at the end of the tunnel from hell.....setting them and working towards them....


looking: buy yourself the flowers if you choose and tell him nothing of where they came from, he does not need to know, he gave up those rights....i think you need to do things, lots of things that will help you feel good in the moment....whether its flowers or a trip to a spa, pampering ourselves is a must, we have been stripped of so much, even though the pampering sometimes feels good only for a moment,that is one more moment towards many moments of happy...we have had and will continue to have so many moments of sad, i think moments of happy need to be there to give some sort of balance....and yes i know that there is no possible way to balance these scales....but we can make them tip just a little less on the sad side....

and as long as you have the time or money, whichever it costs...go for it....if you do not have time, carve some out, if you do not have money then do the things that don't cost any....a bubble bath, a walk in the park with a friend...a really good book.....find things that make you smile and do them....


loving the op:

well some of them loved them, some of them were in habit, some of them didn't know how to stop it......

loving the op reason is the hardest one of all to deal with, and since i am so lucky to have both types i can totally say that the one with love hurts beyond measure.....and knowing that he loved her enough and better makes that hurt deeper then i ever thought possible.....and as much as he will swear up and down and sideways that he now knows it wasnot love, it matters not, because that was what he believed he felt at the time for years and years and to boot that is how he treated me and her....

the ones who claim the love is totally gone....don't believe it for one minute....even if its not real love, love does not die such a fast death, i think it more compartmentalization at its finest...and reading on the waywards forum only reinforces this....

can the ws compartmentalize the love for the op to the point of extinction....i don't know.....


i would like to wish everyone peace on this valentines day, peace within your heart and peace of mind......


need to go
peace peeps...

(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would love for you to say a little bit more about this. In my way of thinking, I cannot believe a LTA can sustain itself if there is NOT an emotional connection. Please help me to see this from a male perspective.

fnf,

Part of my feeling on this is as m334455 put so well, the LTA is an indicator that our WS is not able to form emotionally intimate relationships with their AP or us. If the WS had an emotionally intimate relationship with us, then the LTA could not occur. Maybe a ONS or short fling, but the cognitive dissonance of cheating on a person you loved and had any empathy for, would just destroy the relationship. OTOH, if the WS is able to form an emotionally intimate relationship, and transfers this relationship to the AP, then I would expect the WS to want eventually to leave the primary relationship in favor of the emotionally connected AP. I do not see the WS just treading water with a status quo with most of his or her energy going into the marital relationship. We see this on SI with the shorter term A’s where the WS perceives love and infatuation with the OP, and the WS’s often do leave the martial relationship for the AP or the A escalates in the resources of time it is consuming until it exposes itself.

As I wrote, a previous single OM fell for FWW when she had only wanted a “fling”. While she says there was a period where she was “giddy” and infatuated with him, she never wanted to leave the M. He wanted her to leave me for him, and pressured her to be available for more traditional “dating” activities. This became a source of conflict between them. He realized she was not as available for him as she may have indicated early on, and she became frustrated with his unwillingness to keep the relationship at the level of a fling or A. A similar dynamic played out with roles reversed when at the end of her M to her xH, FWW had an A with a MOM. She thought that MOM was the love of her life and wanted him to leave his wife. When she realized this would never happen, she became angry and this ended the A. In this A during her first M, her MOM was not happy that she divorced and set up her own house. He did not love her (in any healthy way); he just liked having a younger hot woman available for sex dates when he would call her.

So for me the above examples address the emotional “love” connection in my sich. There are other emotional connections, and these do exist. The affirmation and external validation received from the AP stabilizes the WS. In her two last A’s, and her sexting/phone sex with her bil, FWW got the external validation form OM finding her attractive and desirable. They agreed with anything she said, problems in her life were always someone else’s fault. In exchange, these typically older, always less attractive OM received sexual attention and satisfaction from a fit, attractive, and younger woman. What a f@k-ing ego stoke that has to be! If I was in a “bad marriage” and an attractive woman flirted with me, made herself available, and told me how it was not my fault, I could see where that would be a wonderful feeling. But, I have barriers, and would never allow an inappropriate relationship to begin, let alone go too far. It is not that there have not been opportunities. Especially since dday I see the fishing now.

The A relationship is what it is at the beginning. It does not grow or change. Our WS’s emotional and life commitment to the AP was essentially unchanged from the inception, to dday years later. If there was any change, it was an initial infatuation cooling to a routine relationship of talking each other up and doing each other from time to time. Speaking as a man, NSA sex on my terms would be a powerful attractant. I would not need a lot of emotion to engage and continue if I were to allow myself to go there.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Fnf.. Heck, I have read sooo many books about relationships..they all talk fear.

Yes, I found a card for my W. She can read it to mean what she thinks.. But let me share what it means to me… . The italic my inner thoughts for this card

On this Valentine's Day, I want to hold you tighter than ever,
Yes, because it is my choice and decision. I accept you for who you are and who you were.


So you'll know that even when life is hard,
Yes, I have come to know that life is not fair, you were not always loyal, I now know people do and can change. I was able to overcome the harshness of over two years frequent hurt and crying… and be OK. ,

Loving you is easy for me.
I can because this is who I have become. I accept me for who I am, a man that is not always perfect, a man not afraid to love someone that even killed me. I can love others easily too. You are special only because I picked you in youth to be my marriage partner. I could have just as easily pick an on of a millions other fine women in America. I find many women attractive just like I find you attractive. I can lust and have other emotions for others too, but have the power within myself to easily love only you. This is out of conscience choice and decision... because I know what love is about.

Sometimes challenges remind us of what's good and lasting in our lives.
Yes, your decision to bring in another lover to satisfy your own selfish behavior has in some way hardened me to fully realize what a good life I still have. I count my blessings that we forever have two great children teaching them to making good grades in college and staying out of trouble. We both have good jobs and have built wealth together, to give us comfort. The challenges have help me understand how a humans do make mistakes in life. For me, to overcome such great pain and have the ability to accept it is amazing to me.

So Let hold on really tight
Yes, I physically hold you but mentally too with my new boundaries and my ability to overcome fear and tell you my true feelings in a safe way that protect my boundaries.

and celebrate the strength of our love..
Yes, let’s lust for about 30 minutes and have wild sex to rejoice.

Happy Valentine’s Day.

Heck, that felt good.

ats... I know I have an intimate relationship today. Retro is the key.

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:28 AM, February 14th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow TRyn I love that card! Good choice, really!

ForgivenotForget:

Allgood - do you think your H will come home with some flowers or a card or some acknowledgement? If not, is it because he's never done this before or because he's being an ass?

Given the rules I have recently set about the limits of our relationship, he is under no obligation to buy/do anything for the holiday. If he does nothing, there will be no reaction from me. Now, as he doesnt seem to believe that we are done and seems to want to save the marriage (even tho he's not doing a damn thing right in that regard), it would seem to me that it's in his best interest to buy a card. I don't want any gifts, and as I've already asked him repeatedly for the receipts to return the Xmas gifts he got me, I think he knows I want nothing from him as far as presents go. What would he write in the card? Idk. Last year's card was pretty good except he seemed to contradict everything he wrote in the card by his actions after that, like immediately after writing how he was going to try to be the man I fell in love with, etc, he winds up going to a bar between shifts and lies to me about it. That's some f-n awesome effort right there. Truth is, he's about 100 pages into "Not Just Friends" the annotated version (lol) and he hasn't said a damn word to me about it. 100 pages, including my very candid, blunt observations in the margins, and no "ah-ha" moment. No "I didn't know you thought that", no "That's not the way I feel", etc. Point is, it's highly emotional stuff and the pain I felt comes across damn clearly and yet, he has no comment. So, in his continued state of perpetual density, I don't think he could write anything of interest to me in the card. I will let you all know.

On the do they love or not love the AP debate:

This is something I picked up on from the get-go. In response to my H telling me that he told OW he loved her, but didn't mean it, I told him he either did love her and did mean it or he's a cold callous a-hole that could allow OW to believe he loved her (he firmly believes she loved him, which she probably did), when he didn't. Not great options. THe closest I have ever come to reconciling this in my head is by coming to believe 2 things. 1. He claims OW said I lov eyou first, I think people just say it back out of politeness and then maybe there's some reflection later about whether he really does love OW or not and a decision has to be made as to whether he wants to string that person along or not. I think that my H had told OW that he would never leave me and according to him "she knew what she was getting involved in", meaning she knew the limits of the relationship, allowed this to be ok in his head. Secondly, I believe that him returning that kind of affections was at that point going to be necessary to sustain the relationship, which he obviously wanted to do. Alternatively, I can look at the lack of any real emotion, passion, etc in our M at the time and say, ok, he did love this person in the wake of the deterioration of our relationship. I have to say, there was a significant emotional attachment of some kind, that's for sure. He contacted her during some pivotol moments in our family's life, where there was absolutely no reason to do so, absent an attachment and a need to share someting of import with her.

Like I said, not great options. The only way to really move past this is to say that your WS is no longer "that person" anymore. Not everyone can say that here.

ETA: Many of us here have commented about not having someone to lean on irl. Forgive, I'm sorry you are missing your sister. For others, it's missing a friend. For me, there are only 2 of my friends that know, 1 has her plate full of problems of her own, and the other one, well, I really don't think people can be that patient to listen to this stuff for years on end, so I try not to lean on her much, I just update her as to any changes in my M.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:35 AM, February 14th (Monday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

follow up on the love thing...

FWW never told the previous OM whom she wanted a fling with that she loved him, but it was clear to her that he fell for her.

She says she did tell last OM once that she loved him, but realizes now she loved the power and control she felt of having this man she perceived as powerful pursue her. She says he would often tell her that he loved her and remind her that she had told him the same. Yet, after dday he never fished or followed up with her. Nothing. During the A there were never gifts or other trinkets of affection between the last OM and her. The previous OM did buy her gifts, and she bought at least one gift for him.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf.

It is going to be in the 50s so the grill will be smokin.
I was going to do some baby back ribs. She wanted filet mignon. I have a couple of bacon wrapped 8 oz filets ready for duty. Adding on a pair of crabcakes and two baked potatoes for filler. She offered to bake me something for desert. I can't decide between a cake, pie, cookies or brownies. Would all of the above be too greedy?

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF, I’ve had a quiet week. I haven’t returned calls and haven’t been out much. Haven’t been to the gym apart from a feeble effort on Sunday which barely got me warm. I miss the boys and their way of making the house so full of life. Poor DS16. I miss the dogs and taking them out, but I don’t want another. Sometimes I think I am not worthy to even be a friend – and this is one of those times. But it must be so much worse if the person you would reach out to isn’t there anymore. I'm so sorry. Hugs (((((FNF))))) Shall we sit on the verandah with a long Pimms and watch the gardeners?

Has anyone bought a V's day card for their S or received one?
No and no. But then H is at a funeral back in his home town and all those memories. It was his SIL’s funeral and I’ve wondered if MOW, when she was the fiancee, went to their wedding, the 35th anniversary of which is today. Yep. They got married on VDay. FWH was Best Man. I just hope he has taken the opportunity to bury all of the connected fucked up emotions and memories as the smoke disappeared into the atmosphere.

I’m so glad I didn’t go. I would have found the whole thing very difficult and my attendance pointless. But I feel pretty empty today. As FNF said, it’s a very difficult day for the FWS to get the card, present, dinner date, and the overall sentiment right if we’re angry at them. Esp if we’re angry because VDay seemed to have been stolen by the AP. I never had it anyway, due to it’s (unknown) meaning to WH and MOW going back to the years when they were courting and then again when they were lovers. And it’s that which makes me pissed off.

OTOH, if the WS is able to form an emotionally intimate relationship, and transfers this relationship to the AP, then I would expect the WS to want eventually to leave the primary relationship in favor of the emotionally connected AP.
WH was most definitely in love with MOW. He was deeply involved emotionally. And I do not understand why he didn’t leave. I really don’t. He gave me some crap that her love was greedy and cloying and she took from his life whereas my love was the sort that enriched and added value to his life. Interesting observation when he must have realised that I was losing my love for him. Maybe the thought of losing me made him want me back. He had spent the best part of a week with MOW, he came home and was really shitty with all of us, so I lost my rag and left for a few days and that gave him time to think. It didn’t stop the affair though. He did love her. He told her many times and he asked her to marry him. I believe he meant it at the time. He loved her very, very much.

Dip – that sounds fabulous! Though what are baby back ribs?
It’s just me and DS16 for dinner tonight. Even though I’ve spent £170 in the supermarket, I’m not sure what we’re having…….

Oh, and I meant to say what a lovely post Tryn' and a great card. There are some out there which say about tough times, but not VDay ones. I haven't seen any VDay cards that would do. So I haven't got one. I might look for a card and perhaps do a nice dinner for Friday. As a VDay replacement day.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:22 PM, February 14th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
LookingforLove
♀ Member
Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All--
Thought I'd check in as I am on my lunch break....

Thanks Laura for the Flowers and for thinking of me....
and Happy Un-Valentines Day to YOU!!!

AllGood---No there is nothing in my profile. I have been here since 2006 and I had so many false R's and D days that I finally got tired of updating and just erased everything and put done....

As far as the flowers go--if I do buy them it will be because I love Flowers--H always gave me a card/flowers (he never liked VDay but did it because he thought it was expected) and so I have always gotten a gift...so today is a hard one as I know that he will probably get her something because it is expected.

As far as staying away from the house, I am not staying away because of him or to avoid him, I am doing it because I am trying to get a life.
For 24 years my life has been like clockwork...I do things on certain days, never went anywhere w/o my H..I do go out with the girls about 1 per month but even
that is predictable.
So I am going out and doing things a couple times per week now, that I would normally not do. And I am making him responsible for feeding our boys which is something I've always done...I am also trying to show him that I am not going to sit around and weep and be depressed because he is a fucking HOmonger....

Welcome to all the new tribe members--so sorry you had to be here but this is a wonderful place for advice, wisdom and support...

This is a hard day for some of us and I am sending you good thoughts and HUGS....hope the day gets over as quickly as possible....


Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Status:
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grr - just wrote a long post and lost it along with my internet connection. I'll give it another go.
Speaking as a man, NSA sex on my terms would be a powerful attractant. I would not need a lot of emotion to engage and continue if I were to allow myself to go there.

ATS - thank you for your post. So much of what you wrote and M3 wrote rings true for me and I absolutely believe that your quote above is how my H felt about his OW (with the exception of course that he did allow himself to go there). He has said this on numerous occasions and I do believe she made it so easy for him to use her that there was no need to give more. I also believe this because of my H's inability to make the emotional connection you talk about too. He is struggling now but it is a struggle, even with our children. Our MC suggested that my H has a mild degree of Asberger's. He came to this conclusion during the 3 years we went for C'ing.
Miracle - how are you today? I got the sense in your post that you are feeling very sad and I wanted to send you some extra hugs.
UKGirl - I am sending extra hugs to you too. I know this must be a very difficult week, on several levels, due to your H's absence and all that goes with this day for you.
Please do not ever believe that you are not worthy to even be a friend. Every one of us here considers you to be their friend. You have helped each of us on so many occasions with your wisdom and your caring and even though we are so far away, I often think of you with affection and friendship. I felt privileged too to meet with you IRL. I will never forget that day and the warmth and affection I felt for each of you and still carry those memories in my heart. PM or keep posting to get through these next few days. You have been our friend. Let us be yours.
((((((UKG)))))))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:03 PM, February 14th (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood - I wish there was some way to shake your H out of his defeatist attitude. The things you tell us convince me that he truly loves you but he is so blocked. There is no question that he will live to regret losing you if he doesn't soon start to put actions behind those words he has written on last year's card. (((Allgood)))
I really don't think people can be that patient to listen to this stuff for years on end, so I try not to lean on her much,

I think this is what I miss so much. My sister was the best listener (and she was a real talker too). She would listen hours on end and never get restless or impatient with me. She didn't always agree with me either but she patiently helped me see the errors in my thinking. No one will ever be able to replace her and sometimes that is harder to accept than all the bullshit of my H's LTA.
I think Miracle has this relationship with her mother. I am so happy for her because she and every one of us here deserves to have that one person in our life who we can be completely connected to.
Tryn - beautiful card. You are a true inspiration to us. Thanks for always encouraging us with your posts.
Dip - go for it all! As for me, I'm a big dessert fan and could easily skip dinner in favor of a triple layer chocolate cake with some Haagen Daaz (sp?) on top.
LFL - I love your approach. That is what our S's need to see from us - we can and will survive with or without them. One thing I always add to my H that I would prefer to do this with him by my side but I have no doubt that I can make it on my own if it should come to that.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
LookingforLove
♀ Member
Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to way in on the Love thing....

H and I once had a conversation about this as I found out thru an email that he told her he loved her...he told me it was because he was expected to say it. She said it to him and he had to say to maintain the status quo of the A...
I used to think that he also felt sorry for her--she has had cancer 4 times and trying to raise 4 kids (2 are now out of the house)and she made it seem like her ex abused her and doesn't pay child support (don't know if that's true or not)

However, Over time I believe that he now believes that he loves her/in Love with her because he is with her all the time M-F and takes care of things that H would normally do--fixed her car when it broke down, trims her trees/yardwork...ect. He has paid for their hotels/paid for her passport/ bought food, drinks--you name it...

He is very emotionally invested which is why I say that if he wanted to get out, he couldn't...and I don't believe he wants to...
for the last 5 years he has gone back every time they have had an argument so she never really went away...

This is just my opinion but in my case I really do believe that he thinks his feelings are real...


Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Status:
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Truth is, he's about 100 pages into "Not Just Friends" the annotated version (lol) and he hasn't said a damn word to me about it. 100 pages, including my very candid, blunt observations in the margins, and no "ah-ha" moment. No "I didn't know you thought that", no "That's not the way I feel", etc. Point is, it's highly emotional stuff and the pain I felt comes across damn clearly and yet, he has no comment.
Allgood...ditto in my sich. I know that FWH started the book but the only feedback I got is how it doesn't really describe him. He also claims that he never told OW that he "loved" her, although in her message to me she says that he said it "so many times." Like you I think either FWH did tell her that he loved her but didn't mean it or he told her that he loved her "as a friend." But, and this is a biggie, you don't stay in a relationship for YEARS and not feel something for the AP. So, yes, I agree that either our WS's are assholes or...no, let's just leave it that they're assholes.

V-Day - I told FWH not to get me anything. It would be slap in the face for him give me a card that says how much he loves me. We've never made a big deal about V-Day in years past, so why should this year be any different. He brought home flowers yesterday from the grocery store. They're nice.....

for those of us still in the relationships or stuck in the relationships whatever stage they are in its difficult to let go, because the hurts seem to be unending....there always seem to be new hurts, no matter how small, it still hurts, keeping the wound open and bleeding.....
The most recent hurt for me is that FWH told his father (who then told his mother) about his LTA and that we're trying to work things out. After being married and a part of their family for >28 years, I am hurt that they have not made any attempt to contact me to give me support. I told FWH yesterday that it makes me angry that they didn't get pissed at him and tell him what as ass he was/is but instead they are joining him in the housecleaning duties (rug-sweeping). Supposedly I was like a daughter to these people, but I guess blood really is thicker than water. Was it Njgal whose WH called family and friends to apologize for what the A? My FWH says he would tell everyone we know if that will make me happy. When I tell him to go ahead, he makes some excuse. So, like the book, he's all talk but little action.

Ats, Allgood, Laura and anyone else that this might pertain to....I'm coming to the realiztion that I don't need any other reason to end this farce of a M other than the fact that my FWH had an A with OW for 4+ years, then two ONS's. He can be as remorseful as all get out, he can be sorry, he can say lots of "nice" things, but the bottom line is that if I don't feel loved, the way I WANT to be loved, than I can choose to either accept that this is the best I'm going to get from this man or decide that I would be happier alone.

I told my IC that I am repeatedly disappointed in FWH's efforts to R. He really is sincere, but he is reactive and not actively working to solve the mess that HE created. I have been brought to my knees and I want to be married to someone that would be brought to their knees seeing someone they truly loved so devastated. But, FWH can't, or won't, let himself go there. He continues to minimize the impact that his behavior has had on me, our M and potentially our family. Sometimes I feel hurt about this, and sometimes I'm just too sad to care anymore. Instead of moving closer, FWH and I are farther apart than ever. We continue to sleep separately. It was a relief for him to leave today.

So, as you can see I'm not in a great place today. Sorry for the venting and thanks for listening.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My FWH says he would tell everyone we know if that will make me happy. When I tell him to go ahead, he makes some excuse.

Strongish, FWW has made a similar promise. She offered to apologize in front of me to those (DD, SIL, etc) who knew about the A's when I didn't, and had to either keep the secret or betray their mother/sister. The idea was to address the lingering secret when we are all together. Nothing so far and it has been over a year since the offer.

She also said repeatedly she was going to tell her sister about her inappropirate texting (probably not the phone sex) with her bil. No movement on that one either.

I'm coming to the realiztion that I don't need any other reason to end this farce of a M other than ... if I don't feel loved, the way I WANT to be loved, than I can choose to either accept that this is the best I'm going to get from this man or decide that I would be happier alone.

Like Dorothy with her slippers, this option has always been with all of us. I think that after dday we realize there is no need to "suck it up" if our needs are not getting met in the M. After all, WS's needs were not getting met, so she didn't suck it up, she sucked off someone else instead.

sigh... I think I will blow of mowing the lawn tonight, and go to yoga for Valentines day. I need some quiet time.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 3:47 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Ats)))

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip with a holiday house like that you can be no#1 every time - Ats, you & me - we could have some serious grilling & where the hell is the tribes invite!

I bought my WW a plain card & just wrote how I felt at the time.I left a small gift on the dinning room table when I left for work before she woke up. The flowers arrived unfortunately she was out & they were left outside - they are now so weather beaten they may not survive another day. lol.
Well for the first time that I can recall she bought me something for Vday. Some very nice Italian style pots.
I know she has read the card - not a word, no thank you anything - its like if she acknowledges it to me its almost a sign of weakness.
She has put the card away - somewhere secret & safe - all the cards & letters that I have given her over the years she keeps; different hidy hole but she does keep them.
IF YOU DONT LOVE ME WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY SO BLOODY SENTIMENTAL TO YOU.!!!!

ok that was my vent

I dont understand..maybe I never will.
Yes (Tryin) I choose to love this woman & (Ats) I'm co-dependant but this lady just does it for me - like no other.
ok Ive survived Vday with no major dramas - flowers look a little - no very sad but all in all a better day than last year.

(((Tribe)))

[This message edited by deeppurple at 3:57 PM, February 14th (Monday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello tribe. {{{LTA}}} listing everyone isn't doable as I'd miss someone and would not want to hurt anyone's feelings ever!!!
Lovely new home - great photos. Thanks. The view from my window is snow & more snow. Temps are mild but not the "50's" Dip has for grilling.


This day is one I'd like removed from the calendar. For me, it's an extension of Dday. I discovered the A on the morning of Feb.7 and I confronted before he left on business that afternoon. He returned on the 14th. The week consisted of many tears, sleepless nights and tense phone calls. We went for dinner from the airport as if nothing was wrong... dinner in public... a good way to avoid the outburst that he knew was waiting. V-days since have been varied - one spent with a business associate from out-of-town, 2 spent quietly as he was away for work on the 14th, one with m-i-l as it was a week after sis-i-l's passing (Feb.14 was F-i-l's Bday). Late Jan/Feb are the busiest times in his business. All of these were agonizing reminders of what had been or should be if the A hadn't happened.
He brought home a rose on the 7th (1st time he has acknowledged the day). He believes that totally compartmentalizing and not mentioning the A will make it go away but last Monday I'd had the major meltdown described in an earlier message so perhaps this was a peace offering. It is just starting to droop-an omen-hope not. Did I mention there's been no IC or MC since Dec.09 as his sister's health declined and our Jan./10 apptmt was cancelled? 2010 was spent dealing with s-i-l's estate and is ongoing (long story, also triggery).
We had several meals out this wkend. I'm to make pasta tonight. So far the ingredients are on the counter, and I'm here on SI.

Cards: I found one in the 'funny' section with conversation hearts for hubbies. Simple 'I love you' inside because I do but I can't add all the flowery traditional card sentiments.
His for me read "I love you because even when you don't understand me... ...you can still stand me." A Hallmark Shoebox card.

{{{FnF}}} my sister is only 1500 miles away but I do empathize with your loss. She has often said "when we died and moved to x=x" and I miss her every day since they did over 20 yrs now. I know it's not the same but tears well up now as I think of her... how close we were... and how much I need her quiet wisdom as you described your sister's support. I wish we could talk IRL. I envy your meeting the UK side of our tribe.

UKgirl... you are a friend, a really good, supportive friend who I just haven't met IRL. Your PMs have lifted me up and I miss you when you stay away.

Honest... "Attagirl" you sound like you are doing well. I hope this is true IRL.

Lovin'Life... are you out there? hope you are having a fine day.

If anyone has a FB account and is willing to keep in touch that way please send me a PM.

Gotta go. FWH on his way home.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, February 14th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

“Don't underestimate the value of Doing Nothing, of just going along, listening to all the things you can't hear, and not bothering.” Pooh

just logged into FB and found this post from a friend.

Does this sound like appropriate advice?


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
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