I am afraid to be alone. I am afraid to make a mistake about ending my marriage.
At our last appt. I told IC that I know that my kids want me, and FWH, to be happy. Unless FWH really makes some drastic changes, I'm not going to be happy in this M, so I need to walk away. Am I scared?? Absolutely. But I refuse to allow that to make me miserable. You, like me, have the power to find happiness. What's out there? Who knows...but you DO know that your WH is a thoughtless, lying cheat.
One last thought....you do realize that there are couples that split up and then get back together. I would not suggest that you count on Mr. Allgood suddenly coming around on the eve of D. But, maybe in a few years he will see what he's lost and will truly start to make internal changes...changes that are important to YOU. If you decide to end your M because you want to be happy, that's better than ending it because you want to punish your WH. Just my $0.02.
That's my philosoply tonight. I told my IC that she and I should work on getting me strong enough to S/D my FWH this summer. My biggest hurdle is the feeling of guilt in that a D will so hurt my kids. I know that they will be okay in the long-run, but in the short-run they will be hurting. My oldest two are in the military and I hate to think that they would be trying to deal with a broken family sich when they need to be concentrating on their life-or-death job.
I'm exploring the collaborative divorce process. FWH has told me in the past that he would be amenable to working together in the event we D. I'll have to see if he really means it.
Allgood, with the way things have been these last couple of months, you are already alone. The D route is never easy and it is at least a year of shit – you of all people will know that. But living with such unhappiness will cripple the marriage and you anyway. Once you have made a decision – and only you will know the right one – you move forward with intent. And that applies to whether you R or D. If you R, your FWH has to agree to do the work and be consistent. And, FWIW, I think his “stopping by” is a 15min job, otherwise it’s “spending time”. If he was stopping by to get out of the house for a while, then he should have said that was his reason for seeing his friend – and then give you exactly the same opportunity when you need a couple of hours break. P/A going on there, I think.
Sounds like it’s time to bash it out once and for all. (((((allgood)))))
I’m off for the day. No time for more. Posted in Off Topic – earthquake in NZ. Boys live 300 miles away but texted me they are ok. Expect to skype with them later when DS26 gets home. I miss them so much.
Have been thinking of you all evening at the hospital (couldn't get to a computer). Am so gald to hear your boys are OK. Such a terrifying thing.
I just reread your profile to remind myself of all of your story. In some ways I feel our experiences are similar. Both our Hs had several As over a long period. Both were "in love" with one of their APs. Both are remorseful and claim the As were a huge mistake.
But we are left with the fallout. I look at your inability to trust yor H and think I will probably be in the same place in 4 yrs time.
I am with him because it suits me and I like him well enough.
This is very much how I feel. Someone on here recently asked me if I love him. I really don't know. I try to, I think I want to - but the hurt and fear that he will do it again is like a wall stopping me from really feeling. I do feel I would like to spend the rest of my life with him. I think I could be "happy" but that doesn't mean I love him. I don't want the drama of a D and hassle of starting again. I don't want to go looking for love again. I suppose in a sense I am "settling" and that's ok. I'm comfortable with that.
But like you I will not tolerate infidelity again. Maybe it's pride. I don't know. I think it is. Again who cares. The sich is what it is.
As for contacting BH - I have also given that a lot of thought. If your suspicion is strong I would. If not, then I wouldn't. You have achieved some kind of peace and it is important to protect that. The thing is that if he is in contact you WILL get more clues. Then perhaps you could follow up.
I have truly reached the stage where my biggest problem is the anger and hurt over what he DID. I hate it. But the funny part is that if he did it again I don't think I would be nearly as angry or hurt. I would despise him for pretending to R, for a deceit that I would say, hard as it is to imagine, is far worse than his As over the last 16yrs. The deceit of pretending to care and pretending to R would destroy any respect I have for him as a human being. So I really wouldn't care!! I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a POS who would pretend to r after knowing how his As nearly destroyed me. I would D him without a second thought and would spend my spare time on revenge - against him and his OWs (Yes I am a vindictive bitch)
So, enjoy life as best you can. If possible let this one slide but keepyour eyes open and if you become the tiniest bit suspicious again then cntact the BH.
My aunt is not good at all. In quite a lot of pain. I hope she goes soon poor thing. Her faith is very strong and she keeps saying she wants to go to heaven now. She is assurred a place!!!!
So, now what?
"I'm still hurting inside and trying to disconnect from you so I can feel safe.. safe means me taking care of myself, being independant of you, trying to stop loving you so I can feel safe and not hurt.. I fear being by myself"...
Allgood you have some relationship sharing issues. Just like I did and My W too... she would get so frustrated with me. Shut down, I didn't have a clue.
Her way of telling me was to say things like... You have a life, I don't. What the hell did that mean? I would say, then go get one. She did, a job and lover.
What she was really saying was... I need affection, I need more help with the kids.. etc..
You know what I mean?
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:08 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]
Laura, I'm so sorry about your aunt. My grandmother was in the same place before she died... she was ready to go for years! When people talk about living to be 100, I think... honestly... yuck. Let me live a nice full healthy 78 and then die in my sleep. Y'know?
Sorry. Morbid and cynical today.
Going to respond to a minor but not-so-minor point. Your WH did NOT admire his AP for being a hard-working single mom. He admired her for admiring him. It was a mutual ego-stroking relationship. The AP was Less Than WH and she told him ad naseum he was perfection in pants. Her challenges and personality and whatever that made her open to having an affair with a married man were completely beside the point.
Are you really worried about being alone? Somehow that doesn't ring true to me. I think you're worried about doing the wrong thing more than anything. As always, I could be wrong.
I'm not worried about being alone. In fact (and this is so cynical and I don't like it overly much) when my IC was talking about how WH and I needed MC because I deserve a man who will love me completely and blah blah blah... I just sat there thinking, y'know... I don't want that from a man. I don't want anything from a man. I don't want a man. I've not had good luck and I don't trust 'em. (No offense to the men of the tribe.) I don't mean that I want to switch teams... I'd rather be alone.
I am afraid to be alone. I am afraid to make a mistake about ending my marriage.
This is me too!!!
I am finding myself detaching from FWH. I am feeling indifferent and I'm scared!!
allgood and nofun,
I think that fear is normal when contemplating a large life change. FWW tells me that she had anxiety and second thoughts about leaving her xH even though he abused her physically and emotionally. This fear of a new life is not necessarily a fear of leaving a broken M, but of the new and unknown things to come. Not making a move is more comfortable because there is much less unknown, for good or bad.
Strongish, it was not until I moved out for a few weeks and found peace with moving on, that FWW and I really started to make progress, so I think you have a good plan:
…told my IC that she and I should work on getting me strong enough to S/D my FWH.
Being strong enough to leave is strong enough to be independent. It took me a long time to figure out that M is cooperation between two strong and independent people, not the codependent enmeshments of movies and Hallmark cards.
What she was really saying was... I need affection, I need more help with the kids.. etc..
nofun, I feel that indifference too now when I detach. I am not sure what it means other than I am not so clingy, codependent or needy. I do think that a part of it is I am looking to see what FWW brings to the relationship. When I am in the mode of pursuing her, or trying to “fix” her (or get her to fix herself, I feel connection. When I relax and follow my own path, I perceive that she has trouble making the connection with me and the drifting begins.
We have such a drift occurring now. FWW worked from 7 am till after 10 pm yesterday. I was in bed by the time she got home (the previous night had been late for both of us). I left this morning before she awoke to take DS15 to school after he overslept and missed his ride. She works again tonight late. We have played some phone tag and exchanged a couple of messages. One message was that she decided to take today off. I wish I had known to take off and spend the day with her. Oh well.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 7:52 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]
taking me for granted for doing the same things since I had a husband, absentee much of the time so I felt like a single mother
This was my experience as well. I felt lonely and told my H so before I had even discovered the affair.
As far as afraid to be alone, I realize that I am relatively lonely as it is, I do not have a strong support network irl, but I guess I'm afraid to lose my H completely. But, by the same token, I do not think I can really be happy with him.
I have tried to explain how I feel, in specific instances when they come up, and in general. He just doesn't understand. About him going to his friend's house, I didn't care that he went and I was able to acknowledge after the fact that I should've asked him how long he was going to be, but I didn't want to do that, as I didn't want to be perceived as being a pain in the ass control freak. So, that's my bad. I told him, he could've told me how long he planned to be there, or if he didn't want to give an exact time, he could've called me from there to let me know how long he was going to be. He said he could've done that, but he also says whacked out crap like "I'm not going to be accountable for every minute of my day" and "I came home early, if you thought I was going to be out later, than you should've been happy to see me."
I tried to explain to him how fearful I was to be back in this relationship with him and no matter how many movies we watch together, etc. if he doesn't make me feel safe, it' just not going to be enough. He says absolutely nothing in return to this. I then specifically tell him that when I am upset, which was obvious from the way I was speaking to him, it would be nice for him to reassure me. He says "Well, I've told you this before" (meaning that he won't hurt me again.)
O - and I would never end my marriage to try to get the desired result from my H. In fact, I firmly believe that while he may regret a lot of things after we divorce, he would not actually change.
Well, I feel better just talking about this, but I have to go.
I really do thank everyone for their feedback. In fact, it's my heavy reliance upon this site, not only in terms of getting support when I need it, but feeling like I have a bunch of friends to check in with and see how they are doing, that has made me come to the conclusion that I am just a lonely person.
I will have to do something about that.
Peace to all.
Space. I read somewhere recently that you need to have some space in your life for things to happen, opportunities to present themselves. Being lonely is a kind of space. It's a bit hard, but there's room there for the right person -- whenever you find him or her -- friend, mentor, lover, whatever -- and also the foundation of appreciation for the other's company is already laid.
It's not really that bad to be lonely.
Now, tryn is right. You make the choice 100% in or out. You see, feelings follow actions, not the other way around. It's very hard for people to learn this and it's the simple point of all of tryn's lists of "Desire Buliders" and "Desire Destroyers". Action X BUILDS desire (feeling follows action) Action Y DESTROYS desire (feeling follows action).
The main reason you're feeling fear is that you know in your heart that you really, really must get off the fence now.
If you divorce, I don't know if you'll think it was a mistake. I can tell you that I was 90% sure I was doing the right thing when I divorced XH and now, 10 years later, and with the info. from mutual friends, including his second XW, I can tell you I am 100% sure I didn't make a mistake in divorcing him. I made a mistake in accepting his proposal. When I look back, it's clear as day. I was thinking of breaking up with him and he pulled off the most amazing and romantic proposal and I was 20 and very cheesy and I said yes when I should have said we need to part.
I have no idea if that helps -- but time brings clarity.
Why are you afraid to be alone? Being alone can be a lot easier! No one moves your keys! Everything gets done your way!
And, aren't you really alone now, only also resentful because he should be helping and he's not and you can't even form new relationships because you're "married"?
Make a list of fears that make up "being alone" and solutions to those fears Maybe it won't be so bad if you see it in writing.
See an attorney. Just having a good idea of exactly what you'd be entitled to will help you detach. It helps you visualize your life w/o him better.
As for fearing your WH will cheat again -- I think the majority of people who cheat keep it up. That doesn't mean your husband will, but if it was a horse race I wouldn't bet on "never cheats again" no matter what your WH does.
So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it! Ha.
What I'm saying, I guess, is I agree with UKG. I will never, ever trust my WH again. I trust what I can contract and enforce and what I see with my own eyes and can verify. Anything else could BE anything else. Jeesh, my WH conducted his A right under my nose undetected for 6 years. I'm going to have to join UKG in not trusting my own judgment much less his. Jeesh.
So -- the question then is: (and I'm totally stealing this one from Dr. Phil
Decide if you can choose to forgive.
Forgiveness is a choice. It doesn't mean what your partner did is OK. How much you trust your partner is in part about what your partner does, and in part a function of whether you have confidence to handle it if he/she disappoints you. If you find out that he/she strays again, can you handle that?
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Easy -- ask your F to think about taking his mom in to an attorney to see about a post-nup. I worry she's going to allow her financial security to be threatened.
I left the best for last.
Hon, I am a lot like your wife. Or, perhaps I should say I was. Maybe both, dunno.
I know it's really hard to see it, but she's much, much better. But it's not a short thing. I've been in steady therapy for nearly 6 years and just finally graduated to only needing periodic medication checks instead of real therapy this past December. -- so of course I've found myself a family therapist now, lol...
Anyway, to become the best possible version of herself, she's got to slog through a bunch of shit. Horrifying stuff that she compartmentalized and normalized and now it's got to come out of the box, get dusted off, examined, you have to have all the normal emotions about it -- accept it was horrible and NOT normal and NOT ok and NOT fair and yes, it hurt and then you throw it away. It SUCKS.
And of COURSE she has intimacy issues. She's a horrible, horrible person! (She's not. She's NOT -- but I can assure you she feels like this on some level.)
I have intimacy issues too! I mean, what do you say? Your spouse want's to know what you're thinking -- but it's beyond horrible. How you're feeling, but it's so black and sad...
You wind up not being able to express anything at all.
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is -- she's getting better. Just the fact that you know she's cutting and she's admitted it shows me she's getting better. You're in her loop. It's a good start.
Being alone can be a lot easier! No one moves your keys!
Omg. Thank you for the laugh. That was great.
I do have a lot of trouble with Tryn's point about feelings following actions. I have always (silently) disagreed with him about this because it just sounds forced. I suspect I might be missing the point, so I will leave it to y'all to correct me. I am not 100% in. I think it would be stupid for me to be 100% in. I just don't know if that means I have to be 100% out, just yet. Kwim?
My biggest hurdle is the feeling of guilt in that a D will so hurt my kids
Ouch. Me too.
I have issues, yes I do. I am working on them tho.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:21 AM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]
This fear of a new life is not necessarily a fear of leaving a broken M, but of the new and unknown things to come. Not making a move is more comfortable because there is much less unknown, for good or bad.
I wish she'd find out if HIS affair debt can separated in case of D. She fears getting saddled with that debt.
I fear if FFIL should meet his maker before FMIL--she WILL be saddled with that debt, and it's not fair to her.
She should separate their finances according to what she would be entitled to in a D at the very least. At least then she won't wind up broke over this.
You'd make a good partner. You work, a good mother, nice looking, good Character. Fear to tell your H things is not very good. I'm not so scared these day. I'm not getting what I need, I pop a Q to my wife... we talk about it. We both want us to feel good... all we can give.
Does not stop me from thinking... wow, she betrayed me for 8 years. I do that often. I somehow then think, what about today? It's good.
Me, I'm not good at "consideration" things. I'd play golf and hang out for drinks afterward, not even a call... I annoyed my W to all ends. She never said much but got pissed. I knew she got pissed but silence just didn't sink in. Funny thing is this.. her x-lover pissed her off too.. lol..
But today, I am different. I do try to make that extra call. If I want the best possible relationship, she needs me to call.
Anyway, I think you are ready to make the leap. Make it so. After about a year, you will be a new woman, new stories to tell, new people you meet.. and this too, not so good stories about you H, what he did... days hard because of the kids, etc...
But heck, you never know, a good man may fall in your lab, love you and your kids even more than your H...
This is life.
[This message edited by trynhard at 3:59 PM, February 22nd (Tuesday)]
It's kind of like my point of view..
the drastic steps that you have to take to really, finally, once and for all get through to the WS.
They have to 'get it'.
They have to finally understand how wrong their actions were, how damaging, and how small gestures are not enough!
I'm not saying to use the separation /divorce threat as a form of manipulation...
I'm just saying that sometimes if the BS tip toes around the issues that bother them...that the WS just doesn't get it.
The WS often needs a 2x4 over the head before they really understand and finally get out of the fog.
Like I've said before....with alcoholics...they can stop drinking but still be considered a dry drunk.
That means that they have not done the internal work to truly change.
They still have the same toxic thinking that they had while they were drinking.
Same with the WS..stopping the infidelity is not enough.
All of the toxic thinking and behavior has to change if the marriage has a chance to survive.
I didn't know any of this stuff when I kicked my FWH out of the house.
I had not found SI or any other infidelity sites online yet...
My gut reaction was just very much one of anger, grief, and outrage.
My FWH saw me in a way that he had never seen me before.
He knew immediately that he had crossed a line like no other.
And then.. after all the hysteria..there was silence.. I did the 180...again, just my gut reaction.
zero contact from me...
other than a few hysterical phone calls in the middle of the night as I found out more and more info about the LTA...I figured...I'm losing sleep over this...I might as well call him and wake him up out his slumber and let him have it.
So..I would call at 3am screaming that I couldn't believe that he had done this or that.
he had no idea where I was getting all of this info.
He thought I had hired a PI.
but...anyhow...I'm off on a tangent here..
didn't mean to get into all of that.
I just wanted to share that quote with you...about having to risk losing your marriage in order to save it.
That's what happened to me.
You have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it
Maybe this is why I don't have fear to say... I need and want a marriage with the love of physical touch.
But with that said, I am also willing to do my part to be desirable.