Nell: I know I am over-sensitive to everything when it comes to my H; however, I don't think you are wrong to want him to consider your feelings more. If you think that his response was a really big gesture for him, then that's great. If you need more, I think that's perfectly reasonable and expected and if you want him to do more work on himself so you can have the kind of relationship you need, I think you need to impress this upon him and this may be exactly why he needs to go to IC as well.
I'm glad you like your IC.
To all who responded about my sitch:
The problem with attempting R at this point, or the reason for my regret in telling my H to do so, is that I have spent the better part of 2 months detaching from him, planning my separation/divorce, planning for a new life. I can't just flip a switch and say I'm all about reconciling and saving the marriage. So, I find that I do not want to spend any time with him. I called him a few times yesterday, but I didn't have much to say. I must add, he didn't make much effort yesterday at calling/texting me, which pissed me off since he was the one hollerin about my restrictions in this regard. He rented a movie last night, and I didn't join him to watch it, which he commented on this morning.
I just don't want to do what's necessary to reconcile. Maybe I need a few days to warm up to th eidea, but I'm also frightened to my core of getting attached to him again. At least now, I know that my ducks are in a row, I have the refi, I have the agreement ready and I know I can afford to do this. And, I have seen over the last 2 months how I would probably be better off with someone else.
As far as MC goes - if he didn't like it I wouldnt give a crap, problem is he goes and I complain, as he says. I've tried to point out to him how if we both participate in the process it wouldn't appear so 1 sided, but, bottom line is that he sits there until MC asks him a yes/no question.
As far as Retro goes - I don't have anything in me right now that I'm willing to share with him. (And, even while we were actively in R, the whole REtro thing was waaaay outside my comfort zone. That's the point of it I realize, but it's also the reason I resist it.)
I have built a HUGE wall between us and I'm not so keen on removing it.
Strongish: I can relate to so much of what you have said. And I have thought a lot about what to tell my kids, and it was going to be a joint statement by my H and myself basically that it's no one's fault, etc. but I think my older kids have seen enough of the interaction between me and my H to know why the M is not working, not to say that anyone in particular is at fault, they may be able to see both sides of it, but I'm not worried about them pin-pointing me as the problem. I'm sure your kids would say the same.
I told my H, however, that if he EVER tries to tell ANYONE that this was my fault, I will quickly correct them. Of course, people will believe who they choose to believe, and as no one really knows about our sitch, I have been fielding way too many questions, primarily from his family as to why I lost weight, why am I dressing differently, why are we going out so much now, etc. that some of them might think that I am the one who had an A, but those that really know me, would never believe it. And quite frankly, it's something that would annoy me, but only because I would not want other people's speculations affecting my kids.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:37 AM, February 20th (Sunday)]
Just because you flip the switch does not mean your feelings will change. That takes time. So you know, I have noticed my W really coming out of her funk. I can tell she has begun to feel some real happiness again. It has taken her longer then me. It has taken a long time.
Ats... R'ing means you spend your time trying to be Intimate. It's hard when your feelings say run.
itainteasy... You can only control decision you make. Fear has overtaken you MIL and at her age, security is so important. Things you can control would be something like this... You can pay for her living. You can pay for new home, her insurance, food... and you can be a friend to her making up all the quality time she needs in life. And that is if you MIL will accept it, be happy living like that. Maybe she can accept living with that old fool. Your FIL is not healthy. If he does not want to change, nothing you can do about it.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:55 AM, February 20th (Sunday)]
It was wrong of me to tell him we can try again if I'm not going to be trying also.
In any event, I made up a list. It's pretty simple. 3 paragraphs are devoted to filling in all possible loopholes as to "no contact" and how any contact has to be reported asap. He has to finish the book and give me some feedback on it. He is to confront me with problems, complaints head on.
Easy: I think Tryn's suggestions were good ones.
R'ing means you spend your time trying to be Intimate. It's hard when your feelings say run.
Tryn, It is also hard when your partner has "intimacy issues" and is uncomfortable with emotional intimacy.
On the run.
Thanks for the good wishes for my aunt.
and for your encouragement re my H. We had a lovely time at the beach and at dinner last night.
HUGS to all
Every time he talks about starting the A he starts by saying where his head was at at that time....
Laura, you’ll never have 100% trust again. There will always be an element of doubt. Those days are gone. And perhaps it’s just as well. I know I will never trust my FWh again. I don’t trust the very foundations of our marriage because I know they were based on lies and it took over two years to find out and realise that. Therefore, he has never been the man I thought he was, and that means I don’t really trust my own judgment either. I don’t think to have that blind faith taken away is a bad thing.
Allgood – have you put all the points in your post to Mr Allgood? The thing is, it’s easier to withdraw. You can put up the shutters and dwell on all the negatives until the only solution appears to be S&D. It’s easier to stay angry. Heck – we have a shitload to be angry about! Ask him what steps he is going to take to persuade you to turn back towards him – and that you are taking the first step by actually posing the question to him. I assume he knows you have the agreement ready? As for the next MC, I have a suggestion - let him do all the work. Bounce things back for HIM to answer or opine about. Be passive and see if that makes him think and work a little more. I tried that with our MC a couple of times (he seemed to think we were there to “fix” me) and once he started to open up, he really got something from it. But he wouldn’t do IC. There was nothing wrong with him anymore.
fWh is away again. I’m not sure what to make of the gut feeling that I had, but has now almost gone. Before he went to the funeral, I told him that I doubted his ability to find alternative coping mechanisms and that any support I can give him just isn’t going to be as solid as it was. I have given him a full package when he needed it – and it wasn’t enough. Of course his answer now is that my support is all he wants. But couldn’t say how things have changed. And there was a hovering “something not right” in his delivery. So. Still wondering if I should call BH or leave as NC. 90% of me says NC to keep her/them out, but still would like to tell him to advise me if he has come across anything or if he should find anything in the future. Opinions?
Round and round I go. One day I will be off this treadmill. Night all.
he seemed to think we were there to “fix” me
As for whether you should contact BH....I'm with you that I just don't trust my own judgements anymore. At least not now. Thank goodness for my IC.
Laura - It sounds like WH is starting to take steps in the right direction. Keeping my fingers crossed that he keeps up the good work!
Allgood - I completely understand how difficult it would be to re-engage with your WH after you have spent the past 2 mos. trying to disengage from him. It hurts too much to get close to them when we're being disappointed again and again. IMHO you've done the lion's share of the work until this point, I wouldn't invest more into R until your WH steps up. If he does then you both win, if he doesn't then you're no further behind.
The thing is, it’s easier to withdraw. You can put up the shutters and dwell on all the negatives until the only solution appears to be S&D
You are absolutely right. It's definitely easier on the brain, that's for damn sure.
Future mc? I did not have any immediate plans on returning, but your suggestions were very good. I will remember them if we ever get that far.
I gave him the rope he asked for and he's hanging himself with it.
Tonight, I was home with the kids all day and the 2yo has been spontenously exploding boogers all day long. I have been her personal handkerchief all day. H does the right thing when he comes home and plays with her while I make dinner, but asks what my plans are for later because he wants to stop by a friend's house. (I have no problem with this friend.) I said no plans - that's fine. So, he left me with a crazy sick child after being home for an hour. That was at 6pm. Haven't heard from him since.
Am I mad? No. Do I think he's exceeded the typical meaning of "stopping by" someone's house. Yes. So, maybe that's a matter of interpretation in his head; however, it would have been nice to call/text and at least ask how our daughter is doing or ask how I'm doing (as it was pretty clear I had had it with my daughter when he left.) Sure, that would've been the kind of thing that would convince me that I'm his priority, etc.
And, no, I haven't given him the list yet. And, yes he knows about the agreement and its terms.
I'm just sitting back and watching this explode.
HUGS to those of you whose WSs are being fucktards at present. Thinking of you all.
Laura, you’ll never have 100% trust again. There will always be an element of doubt.
Yes, it's sad isn't. H was about 90 mins late home today and my radar immediately starting blipping. His explanation was good and I believe him but it's so sad that even in my present positive frame of mind I get nervous at a little thing like this. A year ago I wouldn't have given it a thought!
Still wondering if I should call BH or leave as NC. 90% of me says NC to keep her/them out,
Don't know hon. I have not been in contact with any of the OW's exHs. I think if I thought it would help me I would. Like you though, I don't want to stir the pot when all seems fine.
O - and my H came home at 9:30 last night. Not too bad. (Once I'm pissed tho - it's a Hell of a chore to turn that around....)
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:56 AM, February 21st (Monday)]
I would contact the OWs husband in aheartbeat of I had some kind of renewed suspicion for whatever reason.
UKgirl, it may not be a bad idea to contact the BH. If anything it can allay your fears, and also, the BH may be hurting and it could help him to talk to you.
Allgood: If your WH does want to try again, I think MC is in order. I truly understand that him wanting to visit a friend for a little while is ok in and of itself, but right now, he has to realize that he has to put 100% of himself into the marriage and family right now. I think the number one thing he has to realize that he must stop acting like a single guy who has a wife and kids to a married man and father that goes out once in a while to see friends KWIM? He needs to shift his focus.
I hope your daughter is feeling better. I know you said you got a cold too, so it makes it so much harder.
Laura, I hope your aunt is doing better. I'll keep her and your family in my prayers.
When I mentioned to my IC that I felt like I was addicted to my WH, she said maybe I was a "Love Addict". I told her I didn't think so, it was HIM. I looked up "Love Addiction" which is NOT the same as "sex" addiction. NO, I am NOT, but a lot of the things that were listed seem to describe my WH and many of the WH's here. One of the main things is that they cannot seem to be able to have a true mature love or true intimacy. I'm not good at posting the web addresses (I'll see if I can figure it out), but check it out. It made a lot of sense.
So, now I'm dealing with a NPD/BPD who might have ADD and may be a "Love Addict".
No, let me see what I can do with this new info to help me heal.
My F told me this morning that his mother was making breakfast for herself and my F, and my FFIL said "where's my plate?" FMIL says "I only made enough for F and me." FFIL starts get all blustery and indignant when FMIL cuts him off and says "You what? Fuck off." Then she served herself and my F, and they ate breakfast while FFIL stood there dumbfounded.
I am thinking my FMIL is trying to implement the 180 on him! I felt very proud of her.
I wanted to say "welcome" to the LTA thread, also. I am a newbie here, and mostly lurk, but just had to let you know I think that is great of your FMIL to make that step.
I think she may now come to you and ask for more advice from SI, too, seeing that this has empowered her.
"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson
Yeah I was beyond excited that she did even that small thing. My F said "you should have seen the look on Dad's face!"
I wish I had.
I am hoping that she will want to do more with SI..even if she just lurks on her own without me saying "FMIL, look, read this!" I'm happy to let her borrow my laptop whenever she wants to. Hell, maybe she'll even start to just look it up on her own PC, to hell with FFIL finding anything.
So, now what?
did you have IC today? or come to this conclusion on your own?
I don't think it's that simple. Alone is not easy, esp. with several small children. I am not afraid to be alone... I've spent a lot of my marriage alone... with 3 children to care for, but often alone due to H's work hours and business trips. I worked full-time, shlepped them to and from daycare and took the bus across town to work (I don't drive) and thought we were working towards a common goal for our future. Turns out that he admired his single mom co-worker for doing these things and not cheating the system while taking me for granted for doing the same things since I had a husband, absentee much of the time so I felt like a single mother.
When his job transfer took us to another province I was the supportive wife... again alone (no family, no job, no kids in school- so not easy to meet new people or make friends). Only our middle son (21) moved with us. I tried to 'bloom where I was planted' as I was led to believe we'd be there 15 yrs minimum (until retirement). He didn't have the same philosophy - didn't try to be at home with me when possible. He wanted to move back and convinced upper management to let him. He was in the A by this time and being unaware, totally trusting him, I again supported him in the move. I wish I'd known the true picture as I'd made a new life by then (part-time job & friends) and might have chosen to stay or at least had the knowledge to confront him about his true reasons for wanting to return. He denies this but it is hard to believe since the A was from 2003-2007 and our move back was in 2004!
I'm alone now and have been since last Tues. He will be back late Wed.
I guess I think there is more than one kind of alone. You may have a network of people to support you if you decide to end your marriage. So in a way you won't be alone but
Now there's a blank in the sequence of events. And I'm needing to get some sleep so what I was trying to express is all muddled.
Sorry Allgood and tribe. Feel free to ignore my ramblings
[This message edited by lostsuol at 10:20 PM, February 21st (Monday)]
So. Still wondering if I should call BH or leave as NC. 90% of me says NC to keep her/them out, but still would like to tell him to advise me if he has come across anything or if he should find anything in the future. Opinions?
so lets run through the scenarios...
you contact bh and:
he knows nothing...and hopefully goes back to nc
he suspects also....what will you do then???
he tells his wife and his wife takes the opportunity to call your ws....
_________...fill in your own thoughts on what could transpire...all possible outcomes....
if all the outcomes are acceptible, then make contact...take the path of least regret....which means figuring out each and every outcome along with what you have planned for each...remembering you have no control over anyone but yourself...
You what? Fuck off." Then she served herself and my F, and they ate breakfast while FFIL stood there dumbfounded.
this is awesome, it means she is not wallowing, it means she is getting angry and she not only has the right, but she really needs to process every emotion that comes with this...and anger is a biggie....and good for her, she needed to stick up for herself on some level, any level....i hope it continues...
I am afraid to be alone. I am afraid to make a mistake about ending my marriage.
not really so simple, while the concept is simple, life is not a concept, life contains simple concepts that make up a complicated life....
why are you afraid of being alone?
and what about your marriage, what would make ending it a mistake?
i really believe you need to answer these....keep asking yourself why until you get to the nitty gritty of each....
i too was the married single mother who was married to an absentee father, and when he was present he was not only useless but harmful.....
we did the best we could with what we knew, we made appropriate choices given our limited knowledge of our lives.....of course had we known our choices would have been different, but we didn't know, couldn't know and we need to let all that shit go....not easy considering how mad it still makes us....but necessary to get to the next step...