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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, March 4th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am angry, still, but not about the A so much. I am angry about the lies, justifications and blameshifting entrenched in her interaction with me.

Sounds so familiar.

Bro, hang in there. I'd say you need to not jump in with 2 feet into R (goose and gander thing), defend your last bastion, which is your inner self.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, March 6th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quedagh,
I have the same feeling as you, albeit, still in the divorce process.
If you want to read a real horror story, look at my blog on my profile.
You see, my Wslut wife has a boyfriend, (cop no less),long time affair and probably other men in her life while married to me, (have some evidence of that also).
The cop is, 'what they call, Bad 5-0, a trainwreck and just overall low life trash.
They plan to marry and have kids as soon as I'm completely deposed.
What can a man do? Nothing.
The law protects slims like this, but we, as decent Fathers must keep a close eye on the situation and call the authorities for help ASAP, if their is evidence of any wrongdoing.
This is not an option, it is a necessary move, to protect our kids.
Then, maybe we can get full custody and let the wackos out there reek havoc on only their lives.
Of course I hope that my slut wife will behave properly and eventually emerge from the, 'Fog; with some forthright and humility, but don't count on it.
The kids come first at all cost.
Plan your strategy well. As mentioned, employ legal avenues when timely and please separate yourself from this flesh eating cancer that you once trusted, loved, respected.
Also, we can only take care of our kids, if we first take care of ourselves.
I have the same situation, wslut has very wealthy Father, (also with no morals); allows his wife to have other men, so the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
He has teamed up with her to destroy me, financially and emotionally.
He pays all her attorney fees. Pretends to be a normal, decent human being.
I even met with her parents the first month after DDay. That is a cardinal sin!(remember the 180!).
So, now I fear, as you do, for my kids future.
Trial date is in 2 weeks, (another $10,000 gone, but it's only money.
Hang in there,pray for yourself, your kids and all others that are in this good vs. evil fight. I truly believe we are heading for another Sodom and Gemorrah.
GOD Bless,
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:51 AM, March 8th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wal

So that's what part of my process looked like. We're six years out. Happily married. My wife has done a ton of work on herself. I might get into that later.

You heal. Life goes on.

I was wondering if you'd like to get into the topic of your wife working on herself....

NE


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't waste his time noescape.
Once a cheat, always a cheat, especially women, (they have an innate ability to separate themselves from reality, and if I were you, I would never, ever assume she remains faithful.
Hope I'm wrong, but probably not.

'When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge that let him keep her', Sacha Guitry

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think women are especially any worse than men when it comes to cheating. They didn't build a dick from legos to jump on, you know? Legodick or wondervag, I don't think gender has much to do with cheating beyond how it personally affects us. Since I'm a dude I see the "men suck" stuff a lot more obviously than the "women suck" stuff, but I figure it's about equal. People suck. So it goes.

While I also don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater I think protecting yourself is important, for no other reason than a cheater has shown the capability of doing you harm.

I admit, I mostly wanted to use the word "legodick" in here somewhere once I started rattling along.


Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mpb, I ache when I read your posts, I truly do...in truth, when I read all our brothers on this, our ONLY THREAD, I'd often come on here and post silly ass pictures...even ramblings, to pull it out from deep inside.

I am not a thread-starter or a drama king. I prefer staying unnoticed...you see that nic?

But this is the first smackdown, hard-ass 2X4 I've ever delivered...

DO NOT paint that sorryass generalization on here.
The very founders of this site - including the many many MANY helpful remorseful WS's are or may be slumping their shoulders and crying after reading your post. I don't believe your the kind of shallow one who who feels the need to be so hurtful to others in order to obtain your own peace and healing?

NO BROTHER!

The guy who gets the broad-brush is usually the noob on the job.

I believe you're better than that.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, March 9th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

legodick is kinda pokey and angular, I have this from good sources...
just sayin

Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll tell you what she did:

She got diagnosed as Bipolar 2 within two weeks of D-day. She went into 4 years of intensive therapy, featuring countless psychotherapy appointments and more medication adjustments than I can remember. From some of those medications, she had horrible side effects, but she stuck with it in order to make herself safe for me.

She spent a good two years intensively digging into her history of childhood sexual abuse. Again with therapy, but also reading a shit ton of books, journaling, talking it out, revealing some truly horrible experiences that she had never shared with me or anyone else.

She gave me the space to be pissed off at her, to rant at her when I needed it. She didn't tell me how I should feel or what I should do to recover. She let me figure it out.

She finished her RN degree and went to work. This was essential not just for her self-esteem, but also as a protective mechanism for me -- because she'd been a SAHM for our entire marriage, and if we got divorced, I was going to be screwed financially since she had no job and no skills. Her degree took that fundamental inequality out of the equation, giving me the freedom to stay or go without having to weigh such enormous financial consequences.

My wife set a policy of eschewing male friendships, of reviewing how she discussed our relationship with others, of avoiding even the appearance of impropriety with others. She set boundaries in places she had never considered before.

She dug deep into her core insecurities, researched those things, openly discussed them with me and with her therapist. Read a ton of books, did worksheets, more journaling. She made it a priority to grow up, to stop using childhood coping mechanisms and to fiercely examine her relationship with herself and the world at large so that she could look at herself proudly, capably and independently.

In short, she was an absolute badass about owning her shit and fixing it. Yes, there were hiccups along the way. There was frustration, argument, confusion, anger, slip-ups, rabbit trails, solutions tried and discarded...the whole gamut. It wasn't a pretty process, but she was relentless, and she never quit.

In a great many ways, she is *still* dealing with the A, parsing what it meant, dealing with the fallout, long after I've forgotten most of the pertinent details and have put the whole thing to bed. The A cost me about three years of pain, wrestling, grief and recovery. In some ways, I think my wife will be wrestling with it for the rest of her life. She has never let herself off the hook for it for a single second. After that initial post D-day period, she has never blameshifted me or expected my behavior to have any impact on her ability to remain faithful. Fidelity is a promise we make to ourselves more than it's a vow we make to someone else. It is the core of our integrity: can I keep the promises I make, no matter what comes after. My wife accepted that premise fundamentally.

Even more, she accepted the terrifying and often scary changes I made in my own life to protect myself emotionally without judgment. She let me choose what work I did on myself without regard to how safe or not it made *her* feel. She trusted me to work out my own process in the way that I felt was best.

She has worked harder on herself and her side of the marriage in the last six years than I've ever worked on anything in my life, without expectations and frequently without any sort of reward or recognition from me as I dealt with my own shit. That alone is pretty damned impressive.

So, no, I don't subscribe to the notion that once a cheat, my wife will always be a cheat. If I look at it objectively, if anything, I'm probably more at-risk at this stage of our relationship to be unfaithful than she is. I've got to be more conscious about my own boundaries than I ever had to before, because it's entirely easy to give myself a pass with the logic that "Well, she did x, y, and z. So crossing this line is okay in comparison."

(Reference what I said above about integrity. The harder you've been kicked in the nuts, the easier it is to make that a dependent proposition.)

My wife and I have talked about these things. She knows this. She knows that her unfaithfulness gave me ammunition -- which is a fundamentally insecure position in which to have to live, and still allow yourself to be vulnerable to hurt -- and yet she chooses to endure, even in the face of of no guarantees. That is an immense store of fortitude, as most BS's who choose to reconcile come to learn. But that fact alone probably means that I feel safer with her than she does with me...and I don't think that can ever be discounted in an estimation of how much a WS has changed.

This is what I wrote to my wife on Valentine's Day, and every word of it is true.


"Life is what happens when we're making other plans."

Well, that isn't completely true. The only good plan I can ever remember making was being with you. Everything else was just sort of the weird cruft of life that interfered with that best, most wonderful, most awesome plan.

I dig you. I want you to know that. I dig the way you laugh, the way you smile, the way you prop your legs on the couch arm to slouch and read. The way you care too much, worry too much, try harder than anyone else, boss around the lollygaggers, get shit done, make other people re-do their shit (only right this time!), have a heart as big as the world, hope like the first star of the morning, and believe in what other people can't even imagine, let alone see.

I dig that you are tireless, fearless, willing to put your foot down and don't quit fighting until the world gives up and sees it your way.

I wouldn't have you any other way.

I love you.

And so I ask for the 18th straight year, a personal record, by the way, will you be my valentine once again?

Thank you for growing old with me.

The fact that I can write those things and feel that way is all the proof I need that my wife has transformed herself from what she was into something awesome beyond my imagining.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gawd I love you brother)))

Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you ARE awesome WAL!

thanks for detailing all that.
one thing...

She got diagnosed as Bipolar 2 within two weeks of D-day

WTH!!! slhims psych acts like its going to take MONTHS of observation...kinda hard to do when he set the next(read third!) apt. MONTHS FROM NOW!
So once again...WTH!?!?


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife was seeing a counselor with the same regional clinic for 2+ years before D-day. The counselor was horrible, told her she was an abused spouse and encouraged her to do whatever she wanted. I don't believe she encouraged the affair, as she didn't seem to know it was going on, but other than that, she was all but a completely worthless piece of shit. One of those counselors who has an alarming tendency to project their own issues onto the client.

On the positive side, it also gave her current psychiatrist -- who we started seeing almost immediate after D-day -- two years of insight on which to make his diagnosis. For him, the affair behaviors (which I made my wife explain to him in detail during her first appointment, for which I was present) were the clincher, especially in relation to the antidepressants they had her on at the time.

A good psychiatrist is generally going to take their time to observe patterns with a new patient before slapping on a diagnosis.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, March 10th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i understand that. but...
hows he gonna observe her without seeing her?

on another note, i had asked her before she started with her reg psyc. to ask what she specialized in...i looked her up today, turns out its "coping with illness and woman issues".
their website has outlines of each dr's specialties. -mood disorders, schitzos,relationships,elderly,family,ADHD,adolescent ...etc...
hers lists none of those, neither does her psychiatrist's.
why am I the one doing the research here?
im frustrated right now.

[This message edited by stilllovingher at 11:09 PM, March 10th (Saturday)]


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
HoldingTogether
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Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, March 11th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A little while back, during a 25 day lull in postings on this thread someone posted this:

I loved this 'man' thread. It helped me a lot in unconfuddling my muddled brain. Question is, where the f*&k is everyone??

I was going to reply to that but Mighty beat me to it with this:

Yes, um... sorry. I do somewhat watch this thread for the reasons you mentioned. Yet, I sort of stopped posting in it. Couple things happened. It became divorce talk. Not that its bad, some terrible stories are here, but Im in R. So, Im not really wanted to read about happily divorced men... sort of makes me get a bit foggy and fantasizing about it for myself.

Pretty much summed up what I was thinking on the matter. Then adding to the general "The only way to reclaim your manhood is to divorce the bitch.." kind of vibe that I felt alot of posters where laying down comes this gem:

Don't waste his time noescape.
Once a cheat, always a cheat, especially women, (they have an innate ability to separate themselves from reality, and if I were you, I would never, ever assume she remains faithful.

Not exactly the message that I want to receive in my current situation trying to R.

Not trying to cast any judgements on other posters points of view or on the thread in general. Everyone needs a place to get out what they need to get out, and if this thread is trending in one direction or another? Well hey, that's cool man, I just think that there are alot of men on this site that are working toward R, so they are kind of grooving to a different tune if you follow me.

I found alot of the posts earlier on in this thread were immensely useful in helping me to untangle the fucked up Gordian Knot that trying to retain both my marriage AND my pride and sense of myself as a man had become. That shit is one seriously precarious balancing act and the perspectives of some of the BH's further along in the process were like water to a man crawling through the damn Sahara.

Lately though the thread seems to mostly be focusing on divorce and separation and advice pertaining to both. And alot of the commentary that comes through is neccisarily colored through that filter. Again, not judging or trying to imply that anyone should post one way or another, just trying to explain why some guys might be absenting themselves from the festivities. If a thread for divorcing or separating BH's needing support and commiserating is what this thread needs to be then that's cool, just not where my head is at right now.

That being said:

Don't waste his time noescape.
Once a cheat, always a cheat, especially women, (they have an innate ability to separate themselves from reality, and if I were you, I would never, ever assume she remains faithful.

Is, in my humble opinion, bullshit of the highest order. And I wanted to call it out just in case any BH's early in R are reading here.

MPB, I have followed your posts, and man you are walking one fucked up difficult road. I feel your pain and I can empathize with where you are coming from. I would never, in a million fucking years tell you, with your situation, that you should try to R or give your WW even the smallest measure of the benefit of the doubt, it sure as shit doesn't sound like she deserves either one. Conversely I think that maybe you should pull back a bit with the putting of every other woman on the planet into the same fucked up crazy box your WW is apperantly living in.

You might want to consider heading over to the hardware store and trading in that brush you are painting with for a narrower model. Just saying.

Look, the liberal admission policy my FWW instituted for her vagina may say a lot about the fucked up place her head was at at the time. But I personally believe that the titanic amount of work she has done on herself and our marriage since then says even more about where her head is at today. That is the framework from which I am operating. The behaviors that your soon to be X WW exhibited and continues to exhibit say a lot about the dark and smelly place where her head continues to reside. That is the framework from which you are operating. The two are mutually exlusive and only intersect at the point of both of our WW's choosing to fuck other men. After that point their tragectories split pretty distinctly. So you go ahead and filter your views on your own WW through the lens you have had forced upon you, but you can go ahead and leave my FWW, and for that matter the female gender in general, out of it. Just as a matter of courtesy if nothing else, you can go on and believe whatever you like about them in your own head, not my business.

The one thing I am starting to get pretty well cemented in my own mind: whatever my FWW's A says about her, or your WW's A says about her, or what any number of WW's As say about women in general? It does not say one goddamn thing about our masculinity or worth as men At. Fucking. All.. And I don't require any chest beating, muscle flexing, talking about the sorry, fucked up state of womankind in general, to convince me of that fact. It simply is that: a fact.

People can, and do, change. Saying once a cheater always a cheater implies that infidelity is a character flaw all in and of itself, independent of any other factors and totally unfixable. Were as I tend to look at it as more of a symptom and manifestation of a whole host of other issues and character flaws, most of which I believe are repairable with hard work and honest introspection. I'm sure we probably have different perspectives based on our individual experiences post Dday and that's all good, great and fine. I imagine I might be feeling similarly about cheaters and women in general if I were going through what you are. Doesn't make your statement any less wrong though.

Anyway just my two cents worth, I could be wrong god knows I've been wrong about plenty of shit the last few years.

I wish for nothing more than good luck and speedy healing to every BH here.

Oh and maybe loads of money... I wish for loads of money for all of us too... and maybe the occasional blow job... Those are nice.

HT


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 338 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
64fleet
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Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MPB is prolly just venting, but what he wrote has been my actual experience-every woman I've been with cheated. I gave this one a second chance, guess what-she cheated again, once we were M'd w/two kids.

Who gets married only to date others?

It was coming here I realized change is possible. Mine might just change someday. I highly doubt it, but you never know.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Mypoorboys
♂ Member
Member # 33169
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wal, jjct and all others,
A sincere apology to you all.
Yes, I had that rare occasion to lose it and just vent, only about my situation, but my statements and childish retort was wrong. Wrong for many people here and wrong for me.
I'm not that type of person, nor do I ever aspire to generalize about anything or anybody.
I feel ashamed,and sad to have sunk to that level.
Just because the,'R', word is presently not in my dictionary, doesn't mean that the rest of you should feel bad.
My pain continues to burden me with occasional incredible anger.
In the past, my posts have either concentrated on helping others help themselves, or just explaining, (asking), what to do, where to go, how to deal.
My outburst was totally selfish, inconsiderate and completely incorrect.
Again, sincere apologizes to all my fellow travelers on this thread. I only wish everyone GODs speed to recovery, happiness and long life.
MPBs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't beat yourself up too much, man. We've all been there.

I remember very well when "Once a slut, always a slut" was part of my vocabulary.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
quedagh
♂ Member
Member # 24195
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I can understand the rage.

I know it was offensive- but when I think of how much rage I went through and how the usual remedies didn't seem to work... I would have tried anything. Never thought of venting here.

At least that is how I looked at your post... with a shrug and a thought that he is venting.

PM me if you want to vent like that. Heck, I can give you some good terminology... to help with the depressurizing.


Divorced and safer, mostly.


Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Recovery Land
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Clearly, you guys do not remember when I was still in my venting phase. Venting was like 90% of what I did on SI.

Start here:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=191040

I wholly support venting as a therapy. And shooting small animals. And running over people with trucks.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and leaping tall buildings with a single bound!
mpb)))
all you guys)))

Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, March 12th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jj and the jedi side hug


Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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