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User Topic: Betrayed Men-Part 7
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, March 24th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

geightr,

For those of you that talked about your WW's being immature and childish ...<snip>... did any of you talk to them about this and let them know your insights? If so, did it help, hurt,or was there just ambivalence?

This was/continues to be a fine line. I steered my FWW towards IC, and hope that she will continue to want to work at addressing her issues. I try to use other phrasing than immature or childish. I also try to avoid other labels that while a convient short hand, are dismissive or hurtful to my FWW.

We do both understand that because of her FOO history, some of my FWW's emotional and coping mechanism development was stuck at a younger age. Now that the understanding is there, I see no need to continue to discuss or re-process this unlessw FWW brings it up. Fortunately, FWW continues to work on these issues. I can only try to imagine what a struggle it is to come to the realization that many of your perceptions about yourself and other people for the last 20 - 30+ years have been incorrect. That you have to learn new coping mechanisms, and restructure how you perceive and respond to your life.

,,,and that you had to be adults and in some cases take control (manage) of everyday matters...

For me, I have stopped trying to control things in the R, and accept what is. I was her KISA when we married, and I enabled my FWW and family for much of our M. I have given up this role. Maybe I am letting the pendulum swing back a little too far in response to my history, but any more I am here to help if asked and I can, but I do not take responsibility for others. I cannot "fix" FWW or make her fix herself. Hell, what I want for her may not be the best/right thing. I trust that she and her IC are doing what needs to be done.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, March 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rather than bumping this wonderful thread before it slips to page two, here's an example of a man fighting back against the divorce system.

Husband bashed in divorce fights back

Singing sensation Sara Evans has released her newest album, "Stronger," and reviewers are noting it's a sign she's moved beyond the devastation of a "bitter" divorce in 2007 from musician and politician Craig Schelske.

But arguments over that breakup are not over, as a trial is scheduled to begin Monday on Schelske's defamation and slander complaint against Evans' celebrity attorney – John J. Hollins Sr.

The case alleges the attorney simply made up allegations that would make Schelske appear to have given Evans, portrayed as the sweet next-door type, reason for divorce.

Schelske decided to fight back against claims that included allegations he was involved in extramarital affairs and posted explicit images in the digital world, which he has denied throughout.

At that point, Schelske started working with a newly formed organization called FamiliesUnite.org, which seeks to protect parents who are targeted in divorce fights.

He also brought a multi-million dollar slander case against his former wife's divorce lawyer, a case that insiders report to WND appears to be strong since similar claims against the lawyer by Alison Clinton Lee, the couple's former nanny, already have been settled for a large sum of cash.

Schelske previously described the couple's 13 years together – mostly made up of times of success, happiness and descriptions as a "model couple." He blames the divorce on influences that he says affected Evans.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=279013

You can keep your porn stash/I'll take the house, kids and cash...
http://new.music.yahoo.com/sara-evans/news/sara-evans-divorce-the-sordid-details--36465603


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
areyouserious
Member
Member # 31642
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, March 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New to all this. Please read my post in "Just found out." Can someone tell me why?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Mar 2011
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 7:21 PM, March 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

areyouserious,

I have been where you are. When a women cheats on you, no amount of sorries, sex, or that cute look they give you will ever make up for the betrayal. Some people will encourage to stick it out as you are so close to d-day.

For me personally, I don't need to stick anything out. I know once that line is crossed, it is over, period. I will save myself and her the long, tortorous pain we would put each other thru in the long run.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
WhoIsThisWoman
♂ Member
Member # 27424
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, March 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Amen oftenwrong...

Sold the house, settle in a month or two and I'm done with her! She finally pushed me just a bit too far. Crossed that line and I'm done...


Me: 40 yo
STBXWW: 41 yo
Married 15 years, 4 kids.
EA in '07
PA in '09 (same OM)

Posts: 248 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: PA, USA
Mr. Kite
♂ Member
Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, March 27th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

areyouserious

Read your post 'Someone... anyone...?' in JFO as requested.

Why? That's the eternal question for bs's isn't it? Searching for that answer is akin to searching for the Holy Grail in most cases.

I would have to tie a rope around my waist, put on one of those miner's helmets--with the light in front-- and spelunk my way down into the deep, dark crevices of her mind. No thanks! Been there, done that!

Here are a few possibilities to consider: a lack of maturity, selfishness, narcissism, low self-esteem, a sense of entitlement, a lack of proper boundaries, deep woundedness during her childhood years, or just plain meanness. It's probably a combination of all those.

Over the years, when I still gave a damn, I asked "what the hell happened to you?" and "what did I do wrong?" Those questions were usually met with silence and a blank stare.

Over many years of "research" I came up with two possibilities to answer the "why" question:

1. The wife I once knew fled from the premises and left behind an empty shell, a haunted house. There's enough left over to allow her to breathe, eat, sleep, and work; but whatever made her who she was is gone, diddly-on. Elvis has left the building!

2. I just totally misread who I thought she was at the beginning of our courtship and that I was a total idiot. That last part is the most likely answer.

I no longer even attempt to fix her or figure out what happened. That is the best thing that came out of this whole ordeal. Freedom to be me and freedom to let her either get her act together or fall apart.

You have some alternatives:
1. Immediately separate and file for divorce.
2. get into MC and IC asap.
3. Hold off on counseling, give it time and hope the rage subsides until you can make some sense of things.

Here is an article called 'THE NATURE OF INFIDELITY' that might shed some light on things for you. It's a long read but well worth it. Copy the link, paste it into your address bar, and click 'enter.'
http://www.drmillslmu.com/Sexdiffs/spr00/panel6.htm


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WhoIsThisWoman,

That's great you took your life back. Do you mind sharing your story on your thought process and how you knew it was over? I think many men struggle with that decision and end up in limbo land for years. What was the defining moment for you?


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
longsadstory1952
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Member # 29048
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Areyouserious

The why often comes down to her wanting to and thinking she could get away with it. It is as simple as that.

As to fixing it, a lot has to do with the circumstances of the discovery and her work since then. What do you want to tell us about that?


Posts: 357 | Registered: Jul 2010
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

areyouserious, what's the why? Why did she cheat? Selfish entitlement. More to it than that, but those are the core, imo.

You don't need to take her back if you don't want to. Nothing wrong with you if you try to make it work, either. Either way there's a lot of shit to deal with. Sleep, eat, exercise, drink water. Take care of yourself.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7116 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Between a Rock
♂ New Member
Member # 30871
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

areyouserious,

Welcome, sorry you are here. I'm a newbie here as well (5 1/2 months since Dday). Two pieces of advice:

1. Listen to the other men on this forum. They know of what they speak.
2. Don't try and make sense of her affair. Traying to make sense out of non-sense will only drive you insane.


But you, you’ve gone too far this time
You have neither reason nor rhyme
With which to take this soul that is so rightfully mine

Posts: 48 | Registered: Jan 2011
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The simple why is=she could.

She also knows she is entitled to half your stuff, simply for marrying her.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Merlin
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Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1. The wife I once knew fled from the premises and left behind an empty shell, a haunted house. There's enough left over to allow her to breathe, eat, sleep, and work; but whatever made her who she was is gone, diddly-on. Elvis has left the building!

2. I just totally misread who I thought she was at the beginning of our courtship and that I was a total idiot. That last part is the most likely answer. Mr. Kite


areyouserious,

There are many ways to say what MrKite's entire post related to you. But his is as good as any I've read.

The short answer is, whether its #1 or #2, doesn't really matter. Maybve it did once, but no anymore, You are at the intersection of here & now.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. What you want now is important. Take your time. But get what is is that you want and need to open the next chapter in your life.


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/56 Me: BS/62, 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1107 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well there you go. If our WW's refuse to or are unable to R, we have two choices.
1. Suck it up and be miserable
2. Get a D and end up broke.
That's the hand we've been dealt. And yet there are still those who are shocked, SHOCKED, that some men have a negative attitude over what's happened to them.

That pretty much sums it up-my buddy now lives in a camper-his WW even quit her job right before court, claiming "too stressed to work"-now he pays for the house, her car, you name it.

I just wish some guy had pulled me aside before Mday & said, "hey man, wait just a minute, just what will you gain from this M?"


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
WhoIsThisWoman
♂ Member
Member # 27424
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OftenWrong,

Tough question and a good one. I spoke with a good friend of mine almost every day during our morning commute and he would tell me that I'm on the fence. One day I'm on the fence and the other I'm on the divorce side and the next I'm on the "stay in the marriage side". He said, one day you'll land and you'll just know. He was very supportive of my marriage. The things that pushed me to this side..
1.) Not knowing if she was carrying my baby or not... This is a kind of hell that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but I stayed around.

2.) When she wanted a new phone I told her I wasn't going to buy one because her contract wasn't up. So she bought her own and created her own account. When I touched the screen one morning, it prompted for a password. I mentioned to her that our MC said there should be no secrets... She called me a "control freak" and cursed me out. The next day I was on the divorce side again...

3.) When talking about her affair partner, I said that she loved him. She said, "No". I said you had sex with him. She said, "I've had sex with men that I didn't love before." When I questioned her about it (She was with her highschool sweatheart before me, then me in college, and then her AP), she backpeddled and said that's not what she said. I KNOW what she said. The next day I landed hard on the 'divorce' side of the fence.

4.) She went out one night with the 'girls' and I was up all night worried if she was with him. I knew I couldn't trust her again and didn't want to live the rest of my life like that. I don't think I was on the 'stay married' side of the fence after that.

5.) My physical and mental health. I'm suffering from GOUT (stress related). I figured my kids need me healthy and I'm not going to be healthy with her.

6.) I heard the line, "It is better to be from a broken home than in one.". And our home is definitely broken. My kids can tell and it is effecting them.

So as you can see, there wasn't really one defining moment... It really was the fence and at some point I just 'landed' on the divorce side. The things that kept me on the 'marriage' side were not wanting to be alone, seeing my kids, and keeping the family together. Then I realized that I won't be alone (get a little self confidence back and you'll feel this way), I WILL see my kids at least 1/2 the time, and my 'family' was already destroyed. She did it my bouncing on some other guys lap and lying to me for years. So I just stopped landing on that side of the fence, and more on the divorce side.

Hope this makes sense and helps someone. Best of luck guys... Keep your chin up and your shoulder's back.. Walk tall and stand proud. Take pride in yourself and know that her actions do NOT reflect negatively on YOU.


Me: 40 yo
STBXWW: 41 yo
Married 15 years, 4 kids.
EA in '07
PA in '09 (same OM)

Posts: 248 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: PA, USA
Between a Rock
♂ New Member
Member # 30871
Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WhoIsThisWoman,

Thank you for your post. Your journey through this feels a lot like mine and I'd started to feel bad for landing on the divorce side of the fence.

Take pride in yourself and know that her actions do NOT reflect negatively on YOU.

The 2nd half of this sentence is something I've really struggled with. I start thinking "What kind of man can't keep his wife from sleeping with other men?" and go down the path of every possible thing that is wrong with me. Luckily this is happening less and less with each passing day. As so many on this site say Time is the only thing that helps.


But you, you’ve gone too far this time
You have neither reason nor rhyme
With which to take this soul that is so rightfully mine

Posts: 48 | Registered: Jan 2011
oftenwrong
♂ Member
Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your post WhoIsThisWoman. What angers me about your situation is that it is so similiar to the WW's many of the men here have to live with. (The sense of entitlement, the lying, the never getting it)

So as you can see, there wasn't really one defining moment... It really was the fence and at some point I just 'landed' on the divorce side. The things that kept me on the 'marriage' side were not wanting to be alone, seeing my kids, and keeping the family together. Then I realized that I won't be alone (get a little self confidence back and you'll feel this way), I WILL see my kids at least 1/2 the time, and my 'family' was already destroyed. She did it my bouncing on some other guys lap and lying to me for years. So I just stopped landing on that side of the fence, and more on the divorce side.

Excellent revelation. They chose this for us. They continue to choose the wrong path. There is a time when a man needs to take his fate into his own hands and stop letting a broken woman make selfish life decisions for him and his family.

I love hearing stories of men taking back their lives. It is inspiring and there is life after D. There always is.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Finallyatpeace
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Member # 29570
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Areyouserious has opened up a good topic for discussion.

I think most of us would like the why but in the long run is it going to make a difference?

The only thing that matter's is the What. What do we do in relation to this. Its seems that most of the poster's who've been happier with the outcome in managing their lives (WAL, Mighty,WITW)have concentrated on what do I do about this rather than why did this happen. Influence what you can to the best of your ability, accept that things aren't always going to work out the way we want. Sometimes life isn't fair.

Bad things happen all the time. Most of the people here seem like they're extremely competent people who could get through just about anything life could throw at them (natural disasters, sickness). In a general sense, in the case of infidelity, the bad thing happened as a result of someone's deliberate action against you but in the end is the result (you feel like you life is f**ked) any different then something that would have happened through random chance/bad luck?

I've often told my WW that it was my bad luck that I happened to marry a serial cheater (SA) (I guess in a sense I'm lucky in that it's obvious (now) that she's so broken, it didn't have much to do with me). The only thing I concentrate on is what I can do. There's only two outcomes to infidelity stay or go. Even though sometimes it seems like we're getting jobbed by those two outcomes, the power lies in being able to choose the outcome and the life you want.

I don't want to make this seem like a polyanna post because a sh*t sandwich is still a sh*t sandwich but sometime's it's hard to see the obvious.


Posts: 59 | Registered: Sep 2010
velveteer
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Member # 30997
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Finallyatpeace,

I don't know if it is just that I am still pretty recent but the 'why' is important to me.

I know that the why is not because I am somehow deficient - I have enough self respect for that. I do know that there were issues in our M and that some of them are my responsibility too - that is absolutely true, although they are not mine alone. The infidelity is not my fault and I am not responsible. I know all of this.

I also know that she has big issues to deal with - many of which have already been discussed here - MLC, immaturity, entitlement etc.

And yes I also know that OM can't wear my shoes - couldn't even tie my fucking laces. He is one of life's classic also-rans. So she is not trading up (quite the ]opposite).

But - I want to know why SHE thinks she did it. I've heard all the crap about how it just happened and she fell for him etc etc - that was all foggy bullshit and I am not hearing it now. Instead she is in a heavy depression as the fog lifts and she sees the huge pile of shit on our doorstep. She just can't find the shovel yet.

So the why matters to me because I have not yet decided to stay or go. I tend towards stay because I believe in giving this my best shot - I owe that to myself and to my kids. Period.

However, unless she does the work to get at the why of all of this, then that may have to change. I am not sure I could accept vague nonsense about 'it just happened' etc. To me, her exploring the why is an indication of how seriously she takes this marriage.

Of course the 'what' is what is ultimately about. Bad things do happen and what matters is what we do about them. But this is not a natural disaster or an economic recession. This is the result of choices that someone else made and I want to know why they made them as that will have an influence on the what (I do).

So I guess I am saying that for me the why does matter insofar as it will affect the what, if that makes sense. At the end of the day though what I choose to do will be what is best for me and my kids.

V


Divorced

Posts: 854 | Registered: Jan 2011
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The "why" matters until we discover that our WW's can't or won't give a definitive answer. *This of course is not true of everyone.* For each BH the time-length of that discovery is different. I pursued that elusive question for 16 years. Others, much smarter than me, gave up asking a whole lot sooner.

The "why" matters because there's a desire to fix whatever we did wrong so it won't happen again. Men tend to be "fixers." But the only fault I can find with me for her A's is that I married her in the first place. There are books like 'Affair Proofing Your Marriage' that would passionately disagree with me.

Assuming that most here have never cheated on your WW, what did you do different than her?

For me it's been strong boundaries and common sense. I never allow myself to be alone with a woman other than my wife. I don't allow myself to have casual friendships with women that might lead to something more. I don't have friends who screw around on their wives. At least not to my knowledge. Bad company tends to rub off.

I passed this on to WW early in our M but she wouldn't take this advice to heart. I was being controlling and paranoid according to her.

Within the first month of our M we had two major fights.
1. she wanted to go to the gym and "work out" with her ex-husband.
2. She was doing massage therapy and wanted to continue making extra money going to stranger's homes. "Not sex, just a massage."

Back then I was an insecure idiot to her. Today I'm a prophet. Not so! It's just common sense and some discipline.


[This message edited by Mr. Kite at 11:27 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, March 29th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Machiavellian idiot savant

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