I just ate 10 Hershey's kisses in rapid fire succession.
I need to find a better coping strategy.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:06 AM, February 2nd (Wednesday)]
ETA: I hit "post" before I was ready. Oops.
As for "just fucking," my WH did that with me for about a year. It was when he got pissed at me for not having a perfect body and being the perfect wife and not giving him the limerance feelings that he got from sneaking around with the office ho. Now he's more "there" but... eh, long story.
And, no, I don't think WH really knows who I am. Nor does he seem to want to know. He has his perceptions that I am a certain person, all evidence to the contrary, and he's just fine with that. Knowing me... boring or scary or just not worth it? I dunno, but he's not interested. I know who he his, I think, even better than he does. (That sounds ridiculous... but it's because he's not trying to understand himself under the guise of "if I ignore it, it will just go away.")
Boyo1's teacher wrote me an e-mail last night saying that she really likes him and will do anything to help him. That was nice. I think she got a talking-to from the school psychologist because what she wrote and how things went down are not quite the same. But I had the opportunity to be nice via e-mail and I was.
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 11:43 AM, February 2nd (Wednesday)]
And, no, I don't think WH really knows who I am. Nor does he seem to want to know.
Allgood - found this huge bag of chocolate covered pretzels at the store. I've been snacking on them every day this week. DS17 saw me getting the bag out yesterday and asked "When did we get those?"
I did something last night that I promised myself I would never do. I called DS24 just to talk as I was in such a down mood. I don't ever want my kids to feel like my happiness depends on them but some days I'm so lost. My friends/sister must get so tired of hearing me whine, so who do I talk to?? Thank goodness for the Tribe.
Honest - like you I have had to suppress some of my own desires in order to make FWH happy. I thought that M was compromise and I while I wasn't always happy about it, I understood that sometimes I had to be the one to give 80% and that at other times FWH would give 80%. In the past 6 years or so, I started doing more things for myself though. My kids were going off to college, I was able to transition to working at home 90% of the time and started running. I felt SO good! I sorta felt like I was coming into my own. Now I see that that's about the time FWH started his A. You see, I was starting to pay him less attention and I truly believe his ego couldn't take it. Now, keep in mind, when I say doing things for myself, I'm not going overboard here. I rarely buy anything that's not on sale, my friends are all moms of my DD's and DS's friends, etc. FWH always wants me to go on trips with him, like every other week, but that's just not practical with still having a teenager at home. So, I tried to balance it out and go with FWH at least every few months when he had a speaking engagement, or one time to a formal dinner. Although at the time he said that he understood why I couldn't come as often as he wanted, he uses that as an explanation of why he turned to OW. I guess we have plenty to talk about in MC this week.
My FOO will be discussed and that's got me in knots. I had come to terms with my family and I resent that FWH's behavior is forcing me to reexamine my relationship with my parents. I hate, hate, hate that part of this. But then again, htere's really no part of this that I like, so what's the difference.
I'm about at the end of my rope. I need a vacation to get away from WH. Bleah.
ats: about the the 18 year old son....he is YOUNG YOUNG YOUNG...you must stand up to him commanding respect as opposed to demanding it...and its a 2 way highway and that is something he must learn...not to mention that you pay his bills...if wants to be done...well then i say tell him that can be arranged and that you are looking forward to having some extra cash since it will no longer be needed for him......
he is still learning who he is, hopefully he is learning this...anyways...he is still in process and YOU are his number one role model.....YOU not your wife but you.....
nell: i am glad that your son's teacher is reaching out...is she going to fix it???....
about knowing who you are...first off, alot of men in general are not very deep when it comes to knowing the people in their lives, whether it be wife, mother or daughter....men are different then women on wanting to know what makes us tick...for them it is more like what makes her tick so that i can get her to make me happy as opposed to what makes her tick so that i could add to HER happiness.....unless of course the man is the doghouse with one of his women, be it mother, wife or daughter...then he will make it about her to get out...and even then it will be superficial most often like buying flowers, candy or some other thing....
more important then him learning who you are at this time is him learning exactly who he is so that he could make sure he does not fuck up in such a way ever again...he cannot possibly get to know "you" until he knows "himself"....and that would require him to do some serious digging and soul searching...
allgood: i am with you i don't like this shit either...and i have had a temper tantrum or 2...broke a few things and you know what it felt really good... ...of course the things i broke were HIS drawers in HIS closet, our wedding candle among a few....totally disposable at this point...
re: answering the kids with who do you love more:...."neither....the love a mom has for her kids is different then the love a wife has for her husband....just like you love mommy differently then you love daddy....now liking someone is all relative to the moment....i may not like any of you at any given time but i love all of you at all times...
even though this last line will change in time for some of us who will divorce....until there is a divorce this is kind of the status quo for a kid...
In their minds they loved us.
(In our opinion they did not exhibit loving behavior toward us).
neither did they exhibit loving behavior unto themselves.....you must first learn to love yourself in order to truly love another....you cannot give what you do not have...
Maybe someone with excellent willpower can overcome the selfishness or can shift his/her attitude so that being with his/her spouse is the most important thing to them, so the selfishness is not inconsistent with a good marriage.
willpower has nothing to do with selfishness....when someone is selfish they cannot "see" beyond their own needs and/or pain...and usually has not learned empathy....and this is not something that you can teach someone, it is something that comes from doing work on oneself
gotta go...bbl to finish
ok....lets look at this from a different perspective...remember that word...it is a really good word....perspective can change everything for you....as for you opening up everything with your foo....if you are really healed from this then it will be nothing more then some unpleasant memories rehashed and then put away...if you are not healed from this then this is the perfect time to do just that....heal yourself needs be your motto....heal yourself before you can help heal your marriage....and if your ws is on board with this wonderful, if he isn't then at the very least you will have been proactive in your complete so that when you are ready to move on you will be able to do so....and i have been there...my foo issues were with my dad....and my aunt because she married him.....this had to be addressed in my ic and it was, and it was dealt with rather quickly because i really had healed from this and i was able to move on.....and the few comparisons that were re-opened due to pfm were dealt with.....
ok i think i am done now....
Laura/Ats ...you may need to spice it up a bit
Re miscarriages ..(((hugs))) my heart goes out to you all. I reflected back to when WW had her first..it was heart breaking for her ..it would have been our first...I took 2 days off work to comfort & take care of her.I felt the pain too but looking back even in that moment she had aready started to shut me out ever so slightly.
Today I took her to the specialist for a biopsy on her breast...results in a few days
just wondering what our next challenge is going to be..
hugs to all
Men in general are not very deep?? I think we are just not as complicated. Yes, we are sometimes a little simple, no doubt about that. So buying flowers and candy being superficial? That is nice to know. Now I can quit wasting my money on things like that and just buy her a sixpack of my favorite beer. Thanks for the marriage saving advice.
When you ate those kisses, did you unwrap them all before you ate them? I would think that to do this in rapid fire succession you need to unwrap first.
If you still need to throw a tantrum just throw one at me. After reading miracle's male bashing paragraph, how can things get worse?
Posting before you are ready? Damn, another victim of prematurepostulation! The problem is spreading!
After you get your way about the snow and delayed flights, could you please start praying for spring to get here. Please.
Hugs to the tribe.
I agree completely with Miracle. I always explained to sons that they love Mommy and Daddy and their aunts, brothers, etc very much, but in different ways. The same for my love for their father and them. I always told them that I loved each and every one of them with all my heart.
There were many times when I would be talking one on one with one of them and would tell them, "you know, I love you, but I also like you. I enjoy your company and doing _____ with you." most of them understood that and liked that.
My learning experience with oldest DS when he was about 12 was this: DS was moping around for days and very upset. I kept telling him that I was there to listen to him. Finally, after the third day of this, he took a deep breath and started to pour out his story of arguments and misunederstandings with his friends. To an adult, minor stuff, but to a kid it's big.
When he first started, my immediate reaction was to interrupt and tell him that I thought he was wrong, etc, but forced myself to sit on my hands and bite my tongue and just listen. As he continued to pour out his story about what he did and they did, I realized my son reacted very well and admired him. If I hadn't listened without interrupting, I wouldn't have heard all of this.
When he was finished, I told him I understood why he was upset and I thought he handled it well. I told him that I would give him my opinion about it and that he should think about what to do.
I also added that I trusted him to make the right decision.
That last sentence, I found worked very well with the older DS's. I would ask them to listen to my advice with an open mind and then say that. It always worked.
Also, my oldest DS continued to confide in me to this day.
Hard thing to do. But it can also work with a WS, to just listen.
I wish a WS can do that for us too.
Dip: I did unwrap the kisses one by one. It did slow my pace a bit, but the alternative seems just a bit messy. I don't care what the M&M people say, milk chocolate melts in your hands.
WHERE ARE ALL OF YOU?!?
Sorry Allgood -- I was at IKEA helping J get some sorely needed furniture for her newlywed apartment.
I'd say I feel bad I wasn't here, but that would be co-dependent.
Get that agreement hammered out, woman!
Thanks. Not to one-up anyone, but actually I've had 5. 9 pregnancies. 10 Babies conceived (lost a twin at 8 weeks with Baby Paddy)
Two of the misses needed surgery and WH didn't come either time, actually.
Spent a lovely day with J -- followed by my Dad calling to yell at me about how WH is a loser and it's all my fault for letting my life go to crap like this and I need to be thinking about the kids . . .
Oh, and that's his version of being supportive.
I'm working my way through resentment. Can you tell?
Spring can hit on Monday.
Boyo1 also asked who I loved the best... I said I love a lot of different people and it's impossible to say who I love the most. I was going to add more, but didn't.
ETA: honest, I love what you and miracle say about talking to the Boyos. I feel like I do a good job, but I get a little excited sometimes and frustrated at other times. When I'm calm, I do a great job. m3, maybe I should end by yelling at them supportively.
...and dp, it's weird, isn't it, how all over the place, people are having the EXACT conversations with their spouses and getting not quite what is needed in return.
[This message edited by ImNellNow at 4:49 PM, February 2nd (Wednesday)]
Your Dad - that's some classic parenting right there. It's always our fault. I get that from myMom constantly. I can't remember the last time I shared anything wiht her about my life where she wasn't able to pinpoint how it wouldn't have been that way if I did x.y or z.
(That's why I don't share anything with her if it can be avoided. I DREAD telling her me and H are done. Can't wait to hear all of her marriage advice for me.)
And - the agreement - well, I got a lot of work done on it today. It's harder than I thought it wouldbe emotionally. Plus, it is turning out to be the biggest, baddest ball busting agreement I have ever put together.
O, Mr. Allgood, Hell hath no fury....
and.. I love Hershey kisses...can't keep them in the house because I would eat them all. I prefer them to expensive chocolates like Godiva etc.
I can see how confusing it all can be for men...
you're right-men are fairly simple , women are definitely complicated....
the deal with the flowers and chocolates and jewelry...
yes, women can see it as a fairly superficial fix and yet, if we do not get that gesture of flowers etc. we can be awfully hurt, upset, etc.
damned if you do and damned if you don't...
a really good book about the differences was recommended to me by Ats. "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" by Love(yep, that's the author's last name).
As I read the book I kept nodding my head as I recognized my husband and myself in so many of the situations.
I like most women need words of comfort etc. and the husband does not....
he needs to feel needed and like he is succesful in meeting the wife's needs.
it's really an insightful book...easy to read.
for example: that common scenario in the car is described... where the husband gets lost and snaps at the wife when she tries to help pr offer advice.
It goes back to that male need to feel like he is taking care of his wife and family, getting lost does not cut it...so he feels bad but instead of saying that he lashes out in anger at the wife because she reminds him that he is not able to fulfill her needs.....
I don't think I'm explaining it well here but..I thought it explained alot about the male/female dynamic and also reminds us that we do look at the world differently, that we have different perspectives.
A month ago we were doing great and I thought we were on the right path. Since then things are not going so well, and I am feeling the distance again. There is no one big issue to point at, just "everything". The sex is a part, but little sex has been a chronic issue. I do think if we were better balanced on the sex I would be more resilient on the other problems.
Stress is up, especially for FWW. She appears OK with her mother dying, but I suspect it is gnawing at her. She has a big event next week at work. This is the busy season for weight watchers and she is working many extra shifts to help fill in. The last couple of weeks she has worked an early morning and 2-3 evenings a week. She is working tonight, and tomorrow night. Next week she will work Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings. Today we were up early to take her for a stress test with a radioactive tracer prescribed after she went in to her cardiologist complaining of angina. The test is in the town where last OM lives. DS18 is still a struggle. SD visited last weekend, the good one not the evil one
While she never talked about OM and her doing anything in his “hometown” other than going to his house (we were not near his house), she triggered badly this morning. I believe there is clearly more to the town we went to this morning than she has told me, she says "probably not".
We cannot get time scheduled together to work out. She arranged an expensive weekend NYE, we had to cut it short to deal with transportation issue with DS18. She keeps talking about wanting to catch up on recent movies, but I cannot get a time commitment from her. We were to go away camping and kayaking in March when DS15 was out of town for a school event, but it ends up that weekend is her service club fundraiser. All members and spouses are expected to help, and because much of the money raised will go to her agency, she feels especially obligated, so scratch the camping. I mentioned recently about taking a day off together during the week and actually got a frown and stern look from her as a reaction. We have MC Friday morning. We will be driving separately and not have breakfast afterwards as we often do because she has to be back to work right after.
It has been a long time since I felt like I had one bad month straight. I am worried about this becoming 2, and having to honor my promise to myself. I will be raising the lack of time together and the sex issues AGAIN in MC on Friday. I feel badly about raising these difficult issues again right before her event, but lately there has always been something. If she were just blowing it all off I could just say humph and walk away, but she is trying. I know she is doing the best she can, I again, just worry her best will not be enough.
Then I think it is me, I am being unreasonable. There have been so many ups and downs that I no longer know what are OK, what is reasonable.
Too much coffee?
Does "I'm sorry you had to go through that alone" and a hug help?
M3, I am so very sorry for all your trouble. How heartbreaking for you!! As Allgodd says, "I hate your husband!"
Ats: I understand your feelings. You are feeling like you are not a priority in FWW's life right now because of her other obligations. This is perfectly understandable especially after all the work you have done and put FWW first in everything.
But, as you say, FWW is not "blowing you off" and is trying. I agree that you should bring this up in MC. It seems like it may be nothing more than bad timing with work related stuff, but FWW needs to try to make it up to you by rescheduling the stuff she is cancelling because of work.
You guys have had an extremely busy month! She is making progress. The two of you are making progress. I think you are expecting a bit too much too soon at this particular point.
Your complaints appear to be related to a lack of opportunity or a lack of your wife's drive to make opportunities to spend quality time together. I think you guys have had some legitimate hurdles to being able to have the time and energy to have quality time. (Now, in a more solid, healthy marriage one might say that you have to make sure the quality time is there no matter what, maybe just in smaller ways if you are that busy. But, you guys are not there yet.)
I know I was definitely guilty of not sitting back and relaxing in the relationship and just letting it happen naturally. Since DDay I was feeling regret about not being more proactive about doing things to keep my marriage alive prior to DDay. And, I would quickly get frustrated if we didn't have the time or energy or my H didn't feel the same pressure almost to work on the relationship on a regular basis. While understandable from a BS standpoint, I don't know that the WS has the same feeling of urgency.
I think I almost treated our reconciliation like my
personal project to manage and succeed - no time to lose! I think I was so desperate to get to a point where I could be in a happy relationship again and I thought that would happen with daily focus on fixing our marriage in one way or another.
I don't think I'm making my point clear, so I'm going to stop trying, other than to say that you guys have a lot on your plate, temporary stuff that's going to change soon.
While I never like to disagree with my Tribe members, I have to say I do disagree with your emphasis upon what your W was willing to do, in terms of her appearance, making time for sex, etc. with OM.
It's pointless (tho hurtful, I understand)to think this way.
An affair is not a real relationship in any way.
There's a certain level of comfort in a marriage. You just don't try as hard because you are not trying to win someone over. You believe you already have them, you can be the "real you" with them, etc. I definitely didn't try to look my best everyday pre-DDay. It had nothing to do with how I felt abou tmy H. It had to do with my comfort and lifestyle. I was ponytail, t-shirt and jeans, no makeup. I seriously thought my H was ok with that. Now, if I was dating, there 's no way I would show up for a date like that, kwim?
And, there is no way in Hell your wife was having sex for 3-4 hours. They may have paid for a room for that period of time, but there is no way, just no way that is what was happening. Just no way! (And, you complained the other day that your wife would only give you 30-60 min at a time - well, that's really good, I think.)
And, my final thought about your sitch is this: sometimes when our WS starts to get it and behave accordingly, we start to feel a little more confident in ourselves, the relationship. You recently had a little experience as to what it might be like to start new with someone else and I think this is not something you have forgotten. I think after all you have been through, it's easy to start to think, Hey, maybe I could do better. It's hard to explain, but I've noticed that pattern with myself. When my H has been more loving and attentive, I found myself sitting here on SI saying I just dont' have any feelings for him.
Ok - even I don't understand where I was going with that. Lol. Time to stop.
NJGal: I posted a topic in general about false reconciliation - it got a lot of responses and they were very interesting. I don't know what the Hell my future holds. I just spent the night putting together receipts, etc for all of our expenses in preparation for my "presentation" to my H. THen, I notice he must've started reading "Not Just Friends". He hasn't said a word to me about reading it or about our relationship, despite the fact that I tried to point out to him that his chronic failure to say anything was a real problem - like just come to me and say, I just want you to know I am thinking about this and trying to figure out how to save our marriage, I'm doing x, y and z, I'm worried that's not enough, etc.
So, he reads a book. Then what? Unless it sparks some sort of revelation, it hardly solves any problems.
But, I'm happy that he started reading it. (Well, he moved it at least. Who knows if he actually read it. Lol)
Alright folks. Got to go.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:33 PM, February 2nd (Wednesday)]