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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 22
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwant and ats.. Ok by those definitions... I guess I haven't had one in a long time. Maybe 1 or 2 months? What I have is memories.

ats..

I will be going out of town M - W. With the recent stress, a lot of my old feelings and suspicions about what I was not told about the A's have been unpacking themselves and taking up residence. FWW is noticeably distancing herself and withdrawing.
When I have these feelings I won't say exactly things like suspicion... but will say things like I feel like our quality time is lost when you work Sat.. .. When you work on Saturday, I feel like you need work more than me.. I would like you to spend time with me on Sat

Let me tell ya.. The work will always be there.. It never gets done... lol

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:33 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats,
Panic attacks. Urg. Hate 'em. I successfully (and single-handedly) fended one off on Saturday night. Never had one until last year, when I sat in a meeting and thought I wouldn't make it through without screaming and running out of the room like my hair was on fire or having a stroke. Made it through, but holy moley!

Meanwhile, triggers, by the definition here... I have one most mornings while in the shower. My WH seems to have learned to give me wide berth when my hair is wet.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 6:51 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for everybodyÖplease help me with this. Do you love your spouse the same as you loved them before Dday? If not, for those that are farther out, does the feeling before Dday ever return?

I am having a very hard time with this. Itís been 19 months since Dday and I thought that maybe I would comes to terms with this. Maybe the love would return? It hasnít. I honestly donít think it ever will. I have lost respect, I am still disappointed, I hate more than I love. I put on this smiley face, but what Iím really feeling is unhappiness. Iím a fake. Iím lying to myself. Iíve settled. Iíve short changed myself.

I thought if I gave myself some time, I would feel different. After all, everybody says give it some time. But how much time? I now feel like Iím wasting my time!

H wants to make this work, heís done everything I have asked but it still isnít enough. He says nothing he does will be good enough and Iím afraid he is right.

I feel like a fake. I am a fake. Iím faking this. Whatís wrong with me?


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun

Sorry honey I can't help. Just wanted to say I hear you and send HUGS.

My problem is that half the time I think we can make it work and that I still love him. The other half I feel like you do (well maybe 60%-40%!!!). Don't know how I'll feel when I am another year down the track.

Lots of hugs

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{nofun}}}}

The only thing I have realized is that no matter what the old marriage has died. If the WH works with the BS, then they can form a new and better relationship. Nofun, I think you have to soul search to figure out if it's just anger and hurt you are feeling?
You cannot force love. It may still be there, but you have been traumatized. It's hard to feel love when you are feeling anger.

It also is possible that some of the love you had for your WH has died. Only you can decide that for yourself.

For me, even though I've seen the worst of WH, I still love the bastard. I wish I didn't.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((nofun))))

Oh honey, I feel exactly the same way. My FWH is trying very hard to do the right things but it's just not enough. I don't feel love for him anymore but I'm afraid to admit that to anyone....although I guess the Tribe knows that now. Everyone says that it takes time, but it's as if my whole vision of him has changed. I don't know if my perception of him was skewed before or if it's skewed now? But stuff he says now that I would have shrugged off, now gets under my skin and ticks me off!

I put on this smiley face, but what Iím really feeling is unhappiness. Iím a fake. Iím lying to myself. Iíve settled. Iíve short changed myself.
I told the IC at our last meeting that staying with FWH in this M feels like settling to me. I hear you.....and I'm so sorry that you feel that way too.

Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, January 20th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun... I think you have given yourself time. I do believe love is a decision. You make a choice to make love, you make a choice to say somthing nice...

So I do not call that a fake. You are not faking loving him if you choose to love.

You cannot fake feelings. If your not happy... you ar not. Is he not giving you what is needed. What is that? What do you think you need?

I think if he was loving you the way you need, you would not feel the way you do.

When my wife grabs my hand, it make me feel good. That is a choice by her. She'll bring me home peanuts.. a decision... she buys me a shirt... she'll ask me what I want for dinner and cook if for me.. She always says she loves me. She goes to all the games with me...We play togather at the casino, at movies, out for dinner... All those things make me feel good. So good, I don't want to hurt her in any way.

If he is not doing things to make you happy.. that's his choice...

But he has got to know.

Does this make sense?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:47 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn - you are correct. H doesn't do a damn thing for me. Oh he cleans the house, shovels the snow, does the laundry and bitches the whole time. As far as taking my hand, or doing any of the caring things? None! He just exists in the same house with me expecting me to continue waiting on him and initiating sex.

He told me, "this is the way I am, I'm not changing". I've discussed with him that I am not getting what I need and want. BTDT.

I guess that the only reason we are together is FEAR based. I also am afraid if we D I will regret it. I don't know why I feel that way though. Maybe because I've been with him since I was 17 and don't know anything else?

I would have continued living this way with him and loving him if it hadn't been for the LTA. Maybe this is just a deal breaker for me?

Strongish - at least I'm not the only one with these unloving feelings. Grrrrr


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((((Fun)))))))

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fun: start with something simple:

do you like him?

do you enjoy spending time with him?

does he still turn you on?

do you laugh when you are with him?


it is possible to love someone and just not like them and when you do not like them its hard to feel the love....and its also true in vice versa....possible to like someone without really loving them

you have been through your own personal 9/11....the trauma may not be raw anymore, but it is still present and accounted for....lta=long term recovery

and at the end of this recovery period you may very well find that you do not love this man anymore nor like him...if that is the case then choose what you want to do with the rest of your life...you've got lots and lots of years left to LIVE

you choose how you want to live your life....and when making your decision then and only then review all the possible outcomes of the choice to make sure that this is the path of least regret....

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:11 AM, January 21st (Friday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle is smart. :)

ATS -- can you take FWW with you when you travel next week? Or even help her at work this weekend?

My date was fun -- but I'm so tired! I didn't realize it until I was watching a basketball game that started at 9 pm!

It was awesome.

I think the advice to compare progress over the course of months is smart. compare now to two months ago... 4 months ago, etc. You see progress better that way.

Let me give some examples:
WH is starting to really figure out my love language and to express his. He doesn't understand why going to a basketball game with him is a million times better than a diamond necklace, but he's beginning to accept it as the truth.
Also, I now know how amazingly important presents are to him. And backrubs. And compliments. Basically, if you bring him a book, give him a neckrub and ask him for advice because he's so smart . . . ta da! He's yours. I can do that.

But it's other things too -- really listen to what your spouse is saying, and not saying. Sometimes, early on, even just an absence of fog-speak is progress.

Last night on the way home from the game I said "wow your BF was really getting upset at that game" and WH said "I was too -- I was just internalizing and suppressing it. You know, the healthy way." and he laughed at himself.

See? That's progress. He also told me work sucks and his life is awful. And then he took a deep breath and said, no, my whole life is great but work really, really sucks.

Progress.

And I said, yeah, it really stinks when work sucks because you just dread going in the morning, but ultimately that's a temporary problem because you look for another job and you work your personal life towards being able to quit ASAP and eventually the problem fixes itself.

Actual communication.

And this from the man who still couldn't figure out just 3 1/2 months ago why it was a problem to be FB friends with EA/PA? XHSGF

He also shut down his e-mail account and now only has one that OW never knew about that comes to the home computer.

I didn't ask for that. He just wanted to.

Progress.

As my one friend says to me when I'm frustrated: baby steps, baby steps...


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No fun -- I think you need to read some books. Seriously. Anyone have any recommendations?

I have a very smart friend who said "sometimes people fall out of love, and there's just nothing you can do about it."

Just as much a part of life as infidelity and murder.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish:

She told FWH that it may end up that his needs are not being met in this M and that he deserved to be in a relationship that made him happy too. When I'm not too angry I can see that this may very well be true. It may turn out the FWH and I are not really compatible anymore. I do believe that people change and mature as they grow older and we might find that at this point in our lives we will be happier apart

I have thought this manytimes. I have also told this to my H many times. I told him I could respect that - that this is just not for him anymore. I couldn't be angry, etc. I understand people change and this is maybe not working for you - but JUST TELL ME!!!
He denies he feels that way.

Fun:
You know I completely understand what you are saying. I think if your H was doing more you would feel better. And, my time is short, but the only thing I wanted to immediately say to you is that since I've done the 180, I've been very, very happy. And, I have stopped hating him. I've been able to relax. And, other than not doing any of the serious work to show he's serious about reconciling and ready to make some serious changes, he hasn't done anything to annoy me for the past 3 weeks, and I've actually found myself liking him again. I now think it had everything to do with the stress and anxiety I had over trying to fix this single handedly and the resentment/anger I felt at him for not doing a lot more to fix the mess he made.
Give it a try - not sure how up front you want to be with him about it - I got to give that some more thought - cuz i know he'll just retreat into depression, etc. and that will certainly be difficult for you to see day after day. Maybe just tell him you need a break from active R for awhile.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Slowly catching up - M3 good for you! I'm glad you and your H are making progress. Very, very happy.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[raising my hand at nofun's question]

On the outside, our relationship seems to be fine/better than it has been since the first couple of years of romantic luuuuurv. I am in a better place. I'm working very hard to be healthy and happy and to heal. I'm being a good spouse (I think) and doing kind, considerate things, responding to his requests for more loving touch, for example, acting loving, having fun with WH and giving him insights into my thoughts, feelings, etc. but not overwhelming him with negativity. Lashing out and venting when necessary, but not at WH.

But I'm not better because of WH. I'm better because of me. I'm not getting FROM HIM what I need from a spouse. I'm frustrated by his lack of introspection, his lack of providing the small things that I have asked of him, etc. But the frustration is mostly showing itself as a massive lack of positive feeling toward him. A true lack of caring. I just don't care.

I keep thinking it's maybe the Plain of Lethal Flatness, but I don't know. It's disconcerting to not even remember how loving him felt. It's an empty, lonely feeling, and I've had just about enough of empty lonliness in this marriage.

I dunno. Rambling.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nell.. Yep..
But I'm not better because of WH. I'm better because of me.
I know this was the case with me too..

nofun..

"this is the way I am, I'm not changing"..
.. He needs to wake up to reality.. Everything changes. If you are in misery, I say you make a change. I hear ya.. It boils down to your own courage and strengthÖ the change you make is about as tough as it will ever get in life.

Love is so hard to define. See.. what is happening is when he does not show you affection by touch, by words of how great you are, complaining about his acts of service, Spending time with you doing things togetherÖ all things factors in how you feelÖ feeling wanted, feeling safe, feelings of attraction, physical smiles on your face, laughing together.

Nofun, you are not happy. Only a change will make you happy.

Let's say I don't like someone because their Hygiene is not so good.. Hair grown in places that could be removed.. no bath..no deodorant.. etc.. Nope, I don't like that. Then that same person says.. That's me, ďI'm not goanna changeĒ Well, It then becomes my choice if I want to still love all over that nastiness. Me, no way!
The question then to yourself becomes.. What can I do to somehow be loved by someone? What can I change? Can you change Mr. Nofun if he says Iím not going to change?

Iwant.. wow...

it is possible to love someone and just not like them
But why is the question.. why would you choose to love someone if you don't like them? security I suppose.. for the kids..

BTW.. There are things I donít like about my W. I choose to look beyond those things. They just are not near bad enough to have any negative effect on my happiness.

I think we have much more courage when we are young.. Look at M3. She had the courage in her 1st M to D.. D over a mental illness that nobody could ever live through, live with.. She chose to stop loving him. Does she still have memories? Yes. But fond memories are not the same as loveÖ just having attraction is not love.

I still have attractions and fond memories when I see my HS sweetheart on FB.. (Yes, I have urges to have sex with her again)

But I also have walls that protect meÖ and my M. That is love to meÖ

Of course, what do I know.. I don't even know what a trigger is! But I know I am happy today...

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:24 AM, January 21st (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still have attractions and fond memories when I see my HS sweetheart on FB.. (Yes, I have urges to have sex with her again)

Well, yeah! This is why we talk about boundaries here. I went NC with XH when we D'ed for a reason, you know.

I avoid a man I'm extremely attracted to in our social circle too.

Actually, I don't have any close male friends. I'm just WAY too easily attracted to men. But I've always had boundaries. So, my husbands are the only men I've ever been with. Some people think that is really weird, but I don't. I need to be in love to enjoy sex. And I've only been in love twice. So there you go. But, there are other men I could fall in love with.

I noticed that both my XH and my WH would say "you're the love of my life."

I don't believe in that. I'm like you tryn. Love is an action, a choice. Not something that happens to you. Much like happiness. I think until people realize and fully internalize that, they are lost souls in a sense.

The truth is, some people never, ever grow up. I think that must be very scary.

Thank you so very much for calling me courageous.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great posts, and so much intospection on love.

I guess it depends on what kind of love it is. I love ALL my kids, but you can "like" one more than another because of personality, or just how your personality "clicks" with your child's.

I think when you are married for a long period of time, you do "love" you spouse in a "family" way in addition to "romantic" love. KWIM?
I do still love my xWH as family. I knew him since I was 15. I care about what happens to him and have actually gotten to a point that I'm glad he seems happy with his wife.

The romantic, intimate love can fade, I'm sure. That needs work and care. Ats said something a while back that I copied down because it was so profound for me:

People in emotionally intimate relationships share and communticate with each other because they enjoy the connection and knowing about each other.

This is the love that spouse can have for each other and in this kind of relationship, work needs to be done to maintain that emotional intimacy.

This was so profound to me, because it made me fully realize that I THOUGHT and wanted this with WH and even convinced myself we had this, but in reality, we never really did. There were times it happened for a while, and WH would push me away emotionally and then later pull me in. This is over the years of being together and married. IC says this is where WH is displaying BPD traits (like my mother...so therefore it felt familiar to me, even if it made me profoundly unhappy)

Do I like WH? Yes, I do. We can enjoy each other's company. If I compartmentalize like he has done all these years, we do enjoy each other's company ahd have fun together.

He "ACTS" loving, with gestures and words and even gifts. But this was not what I really wanted. It was like M3 just said, going to the basketball game together and CONNECTING was worth more than all the diamonds in the world. WH doesn't seem to get that, or if he does, he's afraid of it. Sometimes, I think, when we do get close emotionally, he seems to love it, but then it terrifies him.

I'm working on detaching. Still working on it.

DS 35 came over today and is at me about not letting WH in the house the next time he comes. DS told me if it weren't for the little DS's he would have beat him up, but he acts civil towards WH for the DS's sake because it's their father.

Little by little I am getting stronger. It's almost like I had a horrible horrible case of the flu (the kind where you have a high fever and are almost delirious and just focus on surviving). I am still weak, but can feel I'm slowly getting better. Not ready to take on the world as of yet, but starting to live my life again in small ways.

I don't know if this is making any sense at all.

The change is coming from within with IC. I was just dealing with the trauma with her, and now am dealing with the traumatized person inside and changing. Change is not easy, but recognizing that the way I was dealing with things was not working and I have to change that is a great start.

Just the attitude and perspective changing, a true difference and not just a short look, is making the difference.

I love all of you guys so much. You are all in my prayers. I am so blessed to have you in this journey toward healing.

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't have time for more, but to answer nofun's question -
Do you love your spouse the same as you loved them before Dday? If not, for those that are farther out, does the feeling before Dday ever return?
No and no.
do you like him?
do you enjoy spending time with him?
does he still turn you on?
do you laugh when you are with him?
Yep. All of that. And none of that is less than it was.
But to answer your question, I think it has to do with an awful lot of different factors. And we are all in the same but yet different situations.

We had been married 25yrs and together 29yrs on dday. Thatís a long, long time of living with someone I thought I knew very well. Thatís a long time to believe that he loved me in the same way I loved him. I see him with different eyes and the blinkers are off too. Itís hard to describe, but I guess the comfortable bit has gone, the security, the knowledge that while all around us marriages were floundering and failing, we seemed to be on our little safe island in the maelstrom of life Ė that we could rely on each other, smile and say ďthank goodness for USĒ Ė that has been swept away by a tidal wave of infidelity, lies and falsehoods that stretch back years before the LTA .

The same feelings have not returned. They canít. Innocence and a belief that somehow we had it right has been challenged. Much as I miss and long for the way things were before dday, I know that is only how it was for me Ė not for WH. Iíd rather know him better now, or stay a step removed to observe with scepticism, than to be in that position again. I cannot make a promise of forever, although he has tried to make one to me Ė sort of implied rather than actually verbalised as a promise. My sense of forever has gone Ė so I just take what I have now. I go back to the statement of I am happier with H in my life that without. And thatís kind of it for now. Iím not sad about it anymore. Itís just how it is.

Wanted to come back to honest, but I think everyone has covered it. But I DO LOVE m33's quote everyone has referred to - honest, take note!

As for triggers, I guess they won't ever go completely. I'll never forget getting run down on my bike when I was 11. I'll never forget getting raped when I was 19. I'll never forget the miscarriages. And there are triggers that make me remember. But the point is not to dwell too long.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, January 21st (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKGirl:
I'll never forget getting raped when I was 19. I'll never forget the miscarriages

I am so sorry.

ETA: AND you got run over by a bike too? OMG!

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 2:01 PM, January 21st (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
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