You know, I was fine with having to tell or guide WH thru this process. I can totally understand that someone who is capable of a LTA is not equipped to deal with the fallout of its discovery unassisted. It's the begrudging, reluctant participation in same that irks me. More than that - it just doesn't seem sincere - especially when the lying continues to an extent.
On that note - what did your MC say about your H's stance on lying?
Infidelity is human nature.. so is murder btw
Not so sure about that - I suppose given the staggering number of cases of infidelity I can see that, but murder - I don't see that at all. I don't think it's human nature to kill each other.
Alright - got to go- Diva is having issues... (my daughter, not me, lol.)
Wonder if both were illegal what would be the stats?
I say equal.. Who knows though? I know this.. pain has got to be equal.
Interesting point about the legality of the 2, but I don't have the slightest inclination to kill anyone.
I know this.. pain has got to be equal
I guess it would depend on how you were murdered.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:54 AM, January 20th (Thursday)]
I strongly believe they would go away if I D and find a new mate.
Tryn, this is not true. Before I became involved with WH I was married and while XH and I were only married 3 years, we were together for a total of 11 years. He was absolutely faithful to me -- something I always took for granted but after my Dday with WH I confirmed this through mutual friends.
Anyway, you would have FEWER triggers. But when you've loved someone and been in a long relationship with them, that person will pop into your mind unbidden sometimes, both the good and the bad. I usually remember the joyful parts of my first marriage but there are times when I remember the things that led us to D with great sadness as well. I still miss my XH very much. I loved him dearly and I've always thought of our relationship as Romeo and Juliet only I decided to get the hell out of dodge when it was time to drink the poison . . .
Anyway -- my point is this: romanticizing either the future or the past won't help anything. This is your life and all the experiences in it make you who you are. You were strong enough to turn being betrayed by your wife into something positive -- making yourself and your marriage the best they can be. And as such, you were rewarded with increased happiness and also CONFIDENCE because you know you are very strong and that you make good choices and that you can make different choices if you need to.
My priest friend, who I haven't mentioned in a while, said the A was the work of the devil. (hey, you know, he's a priest) but I've noticed that a huge percentage of us in LTA are Catholic and I know that many of you DO believe the devil is real. And many others believe we are tested in life for whatever reason. You faced a great evil that was working within and upon your wife straight in the face -- and you won.
Yes, for the last several weeks DS1 has been asking me to invite OW's DS's to his birthday party. Even though he hasn't seen them since Oct. 2009. Kid has a memory like an elephant.
Also, my current nanny (now officially my BFF, LOL) went immediately NC with OW and her children, even though she loved the children very much. She'd raised one since he was a 1 1/2 yr. old toddler (because, hey, you know OW was always away from home screwing around -- WH wasn't her only OM) and the child was nearly 5.
I can only hope that WH will show me that kind of loyalty in the future.
I think some of you newbies might be helped by this: I told WH that he didn't deserve me or our family or our marriage but that I would give him the opportunity to BECOME the kind of person who deserves us. I love WH very much but I also told him that while I would love him no matter what, I would NOT be his wife no matter what.
Ok. my 2 cents were long today! It might be ten cents!
m334455... True, I don't have the experience of an X... But I do have 3 friends that have moved on after infidelity. They all tell me they just don't think about it on a daily bases. Why is that? True, they say at times if they really think about it, they can hurt.. but thier minds never take them there.. . but it may just pop in thier mind... but quickly moves on to other things.. I cannot remember why you and 1st H D'd? How often today do you think about XH?
For me 28 months out.. still stuff just pops into my mind... everyday.
I took a month off from SI... So I would not have SI to blame for my daily thoughts... it proved to me no matter what I do, I still have those "triggers" or thoughts. I know it is because I am still living with my W. I am still having a relationship. I am being treated very well and that does make me happy.. but it does not stop my daily "triggers"... It is a part of me.
Yes, I do beleive in Satan. I do believe Satan touches even me and my own actions...
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:22 AM, January 20th (Thursday)]
What counts is the core of your partnerís real personality, not how you would like him or her to be.
I cannot remember why you and 1st H D'd? How often today do you think about XH?
I divorced my XH because he developed serious mental illness and did not make any real progess in recovering from it. He was depressed. He was manic. He did get some medication but I think they gave him the wrong thing. He spent more money than he made, randomly skipped work to go shopping, got dissociative and the ER locked him in a padded room, got agoraphobic and had to be on Ativan around the clock, etc. etc. He was a MESS and this went on for a year and a half before I finally said -- look, you're not getting better and you're not trying and we need to D.
So, inadequately treated mental illness.
I tell people in the Married to a Bipolar forum that if your married to an unmedicated BP you might as well be married to a hard core addict.
Tryn -- I have thought of my XH more in the past 14 months than I thought of him in YEARS.
In fact, I once went about two years without a single thought of him.
So, yes, you would think about it MUCH less.
Not at first though. I dreamt about my XH every night for 2 1/2 years after we broke up. By then, I was married to WH, The Pasha was a year old -- it really took a long time.
One of my first thoughts after Dday was an urge to just go stay with XH and hide there from the world.
But I don't romanticize the 1st marriage -- the D was necessary. He married a friend of mine after that and she D'ed him for largely the same reason. I do mourn the relationship XH and I had before he got ill. It was really lovely.
Now, after 14 months since Dday I think of my XH about 3 times a week. I've gotten over the urge to call him up. So, it passes. I would be pleased to run into him at this point -- whereas I was geniunely scared of him at the time we broke up, since he was so out of control.
Nell: It's good to help someone else. It's funny, sometimes a few words from a stranger can change our life or attitude. I know it has happened to me.
Strong, you are sounding much better. Your attitude is amazing!! I really like how you are able to look at this as trying to see what will work or not. Then you can make the best decision. If you WH is working with you on this, it's a win/win situation. If you guys "make it" you'll have a better relationship, if you guys decide to S, I feel that you both will respect each other for the effort and not leave each other in great anger.
Miracle, of course you are a beautiful woman!!! I think sometimes we are in so much pain, we don't notice others noticing us!! Because you are feeling better about yourself, it shines through and that's what others are seeing.
M3, I truly understand and agree with what you are saying about your first xH. There were times I thought about mine all the time. I, too, wanted to reach out to him after Dday, just to talk.
Tryn, being in a new relationship acts as a distraction from the pain. The triggers still come, but it's easier not to focus on them when we are with someone new. If a lot of the hurt is not dealt with properly, it can affect the new relationship too.
I am learning how to deal with triggers better and better. Sometimes one comes up when you are in public. Instead of pushing it away completely, I acknowledge that this hurts, but I will deal with it later and then try to focus on the present.
If it happens when I am alone, I allow myself to feel the pain a bit, and then try to own the trigger and not let it own me....KWIM?
The hardest triggers are the ones that come sneaking up on you when you least expect it. You aren't even aware that this thing/event/etc IS a trigger until the guerilla attack begins! The ones that are strong are best dealt with by journaling, posting here and venting, talkint IRL to someone, or even doing something physical like exercise or kickboxing. ( I have to take that up!!)
I'm working on detaching. Just found out some new stuff. Seems like over a year ago, WH's nephew "invited" him to some site that appeared to be like a "friend" site, but it's more of meeting "people" and really a dating/flirting site. Wh hadn't done anything with it at all. Just today, I saw that he added his pic and put he is looking for a girl 30-40. The ass is 52!
Mix of emotions. First, I felt good, it meant OW isn't enough for him. Then I started to feel it was ME, because this is for over here, not there.
See what I do to myself??
Anyway, in the long run, it's good. It really shows for once and all that it's over. He will NEVER try to "fix" himself because of course he feels nothing is wrong with him.
It's good, because as everyone says that if someone shows how they are to you, believe it.
It hurts a bit, but it really is good. It's like it hurts a bit if you have a cyst and it's lanced to drain, but it feels good too.
Keep on moving ahead. Baby steps. Baby steps.
He is a ASS. It is not you. He just has a real problem.
You are right. You do need to be working on detaching.
What you said about triggers that happen in public just happened to me a few weeks ago. I was at a construction site visiting and checking out a friends new house. I also know most of the workers. They had a radio playing and my least favorite song came on. I almost turned their radio off! I always change mine when this song comes on. I just had to eat shit and keep my hands off the radio. Damn triggers!
I'm not sure that your or anyone's triggers will last a lifetime. I do suspect that some of these things will probably always be there. I suspect that if I left my W and moved several states away things would be better in some ways. It would leave many triggers behind but triggers like the song I just mentioned would always be there unless I stop listening to any music anywhere. Your discussion about murder and infidelity made me wonder. What if it was legal for the BS to murder the WS and/or the OP. That would probably change some of those stats. What say you, Allgood?
Hugs to the tribe.
well tryn i disagree i think the triggers will always be there for everyone...they may not come about often or even for years...but there will always be something that will "remind" someone of something painful in their past..
your friends...just may not have come across anything to "remind" them....afterall that is what a trigger is, its an unpleasant reminder of some kind of hurt.....and when we call it a trigger its because we are reacting to it as opposed to just acknowleging the reminder and moving on..sometimes the reminder will make one just a bit angry even for a second...thats a trigger..
for me there are alot of painful things in my past that trigger me...someone commiting suicide is one, seeing someone getting bullied is another....people refer to them as sensitive subjects...they are sensitive because of the reaction that is provoked in that person...
I told WH that he didn't deserve me or our family or our marriage but that I would give him the opportunity to BECOME the kind of person who deserves us. I love WH very much but I also told him that while I would love him no matter what, I would NOT be his wife no matter what.
loved this...did this...but i had a time limit on this too.....at least a time limit on one part that needed to be before the rest...and had pfm complied with as the least "honesty" then who knows how long i would have been willing to wait for the rest...i think as long as you see constant progress...like ats has said...if at 2 months there are no changes it would be time to rethink the 'r'...change does not happen overnight especially for most of our ws's...they have been the way they are after years and years of their own personal shit (foo,sab, etc)...but if the effort is genuine....then go for it...
team that up with
"when people show you who they are, believe them!"
Several people have posted about how "strong" I was looking. So, naturally today I'm feeling weepy. No big trigger or event, just a cold, grey day today, inside and outside. I think that the sun may peek through this afternoon so I'm hoping things will start to look up.
what did your MC say about your H's stance on lying
One comment that the MC said I thought was very interesting. She told FWH that it may end up that his needs are not being met in this M and that he deserved to be in a relationship that made him happy too. When I'm not too angry I can see that this may very well be true. It may turn out the FWH and I are not really compatible anymore. I do believe that people change and mature as they grow older and we might find that at this point in our lives we will be happier apart. I like what m3 said...
I love WH very much but I also told him that while I would love him no matter what, I would NOT be his wife no matter what
Honest....honey, you have got to remember that your WH is a complete jerk. He is the problems...NOT YOU!! Remind yourself of that over and over again. And know that when you forget, we'll be here to remind you.
Just today, I saw that he added his pic and put he is looking for a girl 30-40. The ass is 52!
I also told him that while I would love him no matter what, I would NOT be his wife no matter what.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:16 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]
I really had to fight with myself for a while that OW is enough for him over there that he doesn't look, but looks here, because I am not enough. <sigh> God, this is crazy making!! He is toxic for me.
I just have to keep detaching emotionally. Sometimes it's very hard.
As for triggers, I can say that as someone who is 5 years post d-day, it is on a very rare occasion that I trigger. As a matter of fact, I honestly cannot remember the last time I suffered as a result of a potential trigger. It was well over a year ago (if my memory serves me) and even though there are memories and associations that I can make, they are free of pain.
THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU
I often think this is the biggest stumbling block for me to R. I know I am a strong woman. I have survived many difficulties in my life but this is the thing I am most worried about - that I will always feel this pain. I know that if my H continues to treat me the way he is now and stays faithful then our M can survive. But the thought of facing the rest of my life feeling this pain makes me want to slit my wrists!!!
Just knowing it MAY get better - that in 5 yrs time I MAY not trigger helps so much. For me the thought of always feeling like this is so scary.
Thankyou for giving me hope!!!
I also love this statement. For me it really summarises the stance of all of us.
He's an ass
HUGS to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:07 PM, January 20th (Thursday)]
OW is enough for him over there that he doesn't look, but looks here, because I am not enough.
I'm doing fine today. It's alllllll goooooooooood.
I guess I call a trigger everytime I think about what my W did..
Humm or should a trigger mean you feel something?
on si, most people when talking of triggers talk of the negative reaction that they feel invoking the hurt...
the triggers i think that you are referring to are the reminders....you will never forget...you can hopefully which i do believe you are already doing is finding a place for it in your mind, removing or keeping the hurt from your heart as much as possible...
honest: ok i think its time to write out on an index card in brite bold red sharpie...
i am enough, he is not!!!
seriously, lets reverse this ok.....when you were "happily married"...you spent lots of time apart....did you find that you needed additional company because he wasn't around...are you superficial that you need a fix as often as possible, cannot be without the opposite sex longer then a week...seriously...so all of our brave men and women who are serving oversea's...they can be exempt and be allowed to have relationships outside of their marriages because hey...who deserves to be alone when away...
how ridiculous does that sound....why does he get to have 2 women, one for each port....
one woman one man...that is the way it should be....period!!!!!
you are more then enough for any many worth his salt!!!!
got it woman!!!!!
triggers, for me it is more than thinking about her behavior during the A's. There has to be some disruptive emotional reaction (anger, tearing up, depression) accompanying it for me to count it as a trigger.
That said, I had a mini panic attack last night. It has been a long time since that happened and I go it under control pretty quickly. We are both doing as well as we can to keep things from spiraling down any further. WW has been working a lot of long days, and will work on Saturday. I will be going out of town M - W. With the recent stress, a lot of my old feelings and suspicions about what I was not told about the A's have been unpacking themselves and taking up residence. FWW is noticeably distancing herself and withdrawing.