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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 22
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, January 5th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been away from my computer for a few days and have just spent some time getting caught up.

(((Allgood))) Oh honey....I'm am so, so sorry to hear about what happened with you finding the picture on fb. Of course everyone here has already given you plenty of advice but I just want you to know that I will be thinking of you. My advice is that you get a written agreement in place and start mentally preparing yourself for a S. I would strongly encourage you to find an IC, if you are not comfortable seeing your MC solo. It is so helpful to have an outside person, one with the skills to help you through this, give you their perspective. And remember that no matter what happens you are and will continue to be a GREAT MOM!! Your children will be okay...they will. They will bounce back more quickly than you do, especially if they see that you are okay.

Honest...glad to hear that you have been able to keep the 180 up. Having Mr. Honest around, in the house has been a huge stress for you. Maybe you should plan a little treat for yourself for when he's finally gone? It could be a long, bubble bath, a new book or pedicure. Honestly, one of my favorite and most decadent thing to do it to go to our public library and read all the latest of my favorite magazines! There's no way I could or would pay to subscribe to them, but it's fun to have them available to read in the peace and quiet of the library.

Tribe - I have missed "talking" with all of you and getting my daily fix. As for me....it's been a rough couple of days. My FWH and I have been picking at each other recently. It started before NY when he wanted to go away overnight. It was my DD's last night at home before she left to go back to school and I could tell you that I wanted to spend the time with her, but truthfully FWH and I haven't been getting along and I didn't want to have to put on the smiley face and pretend that I was happy to go away with him. We went to a movie and dinner on NYE and got into an arguement while eating. We came home angry with each other and then he reminded me that a friend of his from S. America (the country and city where the OW lives and the A took place) would be spending most of the next day at our house. I have not met this friend before and FWH told me that this guy had also never met OW, but this was a huge trigger for me. I was not happy.

The next morning I had a mini-meltdown and FWH was very understanding. I spent a large part of the day out shopping so I didn't have to make conversation about how fabulous it is to visit S. America, this particular city, etc. This guy is nice enough but I really am not in need of new friends that bad that I needed to bend over backwards to accomodate his stay. I was as polite and cordial as I would be to any guest in our home, but I just wasn't all that interested in spending time with this guy. He kept saying how he missed seeing FWH (this guy owns a bar that FWH frequents when he travels to this country) and BTW is hoping that FWH will be interested in investing in an expansion of his business. Can you say, "No f*cking way??" By the time New Year's day ended I was exhausted. Having to be "on" and keep my happy face on for family and friends these past weeks had taken it's toll on me. Thankfully I had another day to sleep in and try and get caught up on laundry.

FWH and I started with a new MC yesterday and I'm more hopeful. We were arguing on the drive to her office and I was definitely sensing that this was going to be futile. But she won me over by validating, in front of FWH, that I am NOT just "hanging on to my anger" and that my wildly swinging moods was completely normal. She asked me if I had gotten all of my questions about the A answered and was understanding when I told her that I was reluctant to ask anything more as FWH thinks I'm dragging out my depression. She told me, again in front of FWH, that I was in NO WAY responsible for FWH having an A. Our previous MC had said this, but would then say that she understood why FWH wouldn't have told me that he was having an A and I think he was being let off the hook! In any case, this new MC asked us to committ to 12 sessions. I really like her and if nothing else I think I will know and feel peace with the decision of whether to continue to try and R or to S at the end of our 12 sessions. Oh....she also asked for a release to talk to our old MC, that FWH is still seeing for IC, and my new IC. I love that! I want all of us to be on the same page so there can be no "misunderstanding."

I am not as angry today, although I have to say that reading about Mr. Allgood really pisses me off! He is a complete idiot for not doing whatever he can to keep his beautiful M and family together.

Ats - I am glad to hear that you and your WW have been able to weather death of her family together. I hope she realizes now how lucky she is to have you to support her.

(((Tribe)))


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, January 5th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken-
being angry 6 months post d-day? perfectly normal.
you are on that emotional roller coaster ride.

strongish-
sounds like you have found a good MC!

algood-
hope you and your H do go to MC.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, January 5th (Wednesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip:

"He can barely think fast enough to keep from shitting in his pants."

unfortunately i can think of one person in particular...make that a dozen or so...how many are we here on lta??


m3 to allgood

I say she should just punch him in the face!

PRICELESS


baby paddy: i too missed that she may never walk...i will keep her in my prayers...

nell: way to go mr nell...


ukgirl: sorry to hear bout your dad's being sick, but happy that he is almost done with it...


living in the now: is missing the ending...living in the now and preparing for the future!!!


honest:

This may be stupid, but if I knew for sure that this superficial relationship is the same with OW, it would make me feel better KWIM? It just hurts to think that WH is more committed to OW and OC's and they are more of a priority. It doesn't change anything, but it just feels less hurtful.

its not stupid honest, its simply a way to held de=personalize it...to help you "see" that its not you that is deficient, but him...

and listen up and listen up really really good...kkkk..

he already told you he feels the same way bout her....didn't he tell you on more then one occasion that if you weren't up to snuff there would a third.....seriously..a third....that means that #2 isn't up to snuff either...mr dishonest NEEDS more then ONE>...and you aren't goin with his new program...


allgood:

He responded that he doesn't know what to say. He doesn't want to lose me, but thinks that's what's going to happen anyway and that I would be better off without him

this is truly the crux of the matter, the heart of why its not working..until he 100% committed and 100% devoted to your marriage instead of 100% devoted to his defeatest attitude and 100% committed to feeding his "woe is me" shit....

he needs to get his head out of his ass, as long as he keeps this attitude up its never going to work...how can you ever feel safe when he talks like that...let him know what kind of responses you need...do not be afraid to do this allgood...he doesn't know them....and let him know that the responses need to be MORE THEN LIP SERVICE...and then let him know that he needs to know that things like what happened with the xmas party are 100% avoidable...so he needs to make a choice...his marriage or his "job related "fun""........that each and everytime something comes up he needs to question whether or not this is good for the marriage....

and allgood: i think he is at the point of no return...time for him to shit or get off the pot...no more half assed attempts because he is holding back because he thinks its all for naught....doing just enough to "skate by" so to speak....


ats: as sick as this may sound, this experience may be very good for your marriage....very good for bringing you both close to one another...so yay mr and mrs ats...


lostsoul:

But at the end of the day, we control nothing,


do what you can, and then let go


LOVE LOVE LOVE these 2 lines...and am trying to live them...


strong: i hope this mc works out, she sounds like she is really on the ball...i hope mr strong keeps his heart and mind open to it all...


promise: the anger....well it somes in stages...and sometimes it feels like that is all you are ever going to feel...and some of that is actually helpful...it keeps you from getting lost in dispair which is really really easy to do....this pain that we experience is deeper then pretty much most pain...it is devastating...its a death of what you thought was, but yet its feels like what you thought was should be there somehow...

i liken this to someone who dies...and you watch video of them...you know their dead, but then you see them looking so alive on the screen and it makes it so much more surreal, so much harder to accept...

with us all the pieces needed to put our lives back together are there, but we cannot control how and if we get them....at the same time you know that our life is forever changed....everything feels different...yet its all still there...how much of it is real...

not sure if i am making any sense...another one of those i see it in my head so clearly moments...


closest to my heart: for me this is easy...my kids..hence cohabitation....and its also my path of least regret...does not make it easy to do, but it makes it feel right, does not mean i am happy, but it means i will be happy knowing i followed my path.....

living in the now and preparing for the future...i cannot control it, so i will do what i can and let go of the rest!!!!


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:44 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: thank you for posting about "what is closest to your heart?" I copied the whole paragraph you wrote in long hand in my journal.

For me, I'm so lost, I don't know anymore. I did think it was WH, hence my devastation.

My kids are a part of me, first and foremost, and have always taken a priority with me in everything.

But, good food for thought.

Ats: I'm so happy for you. From your descriptions, you and Mrs. Ats are well on your way to a very good relationship and marriage. Normal ups and downs, but more communication and TRUST in the sense of being able to rely on each other for support in good times and bad.

Lost, thank you for sharing that piece from FB. It is quite profound, and something I need to take to heart.

Miracle: thank you so much for putting that in perspective for me. It's hard to talk to anyone IRL right now, I'm just told to not pay attention to WH or ignore him, but there is just so much that one can ignore!

Strongish, you are right, I'm looking forward to doing some reading when WH leaves! DS 35 bought me the new Stephen King book.

Oh, and LOL Strongish, my WH has gotten the nickname "Mr. DIShonest" which is perfect!!! :)


Love to everyone. Hugs to the newbies and the not so newbies. I'm sorry I haven't really responded that much to you, but I've been so dazed and confused lately, I can't remember what I want to say....

I am having a harder time not getting pulled in again. WH seems to LOVE this superficial niceness That way he is "off the hook" and doesn't get any consequences or made to feel uncomfortable. I keep seeing glimpses of the man I thought I married.....actual validation about how sick I was feeling tonight (gettting IBS back again....had it when my daughter died many years ago)

Oh well, a few more days!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: THat is really great to hear! This must be so reassuring to you - you must feel like you both climbed Mt. Everest together & you didn't even have to pack her bag and do it with her on your back! Great news! (other than the death part, of course...)

To all: thank you for your continued support. I canceled MC the day I found the photo. I had initially offered him the opportunity to go, but he didn't respond to the offer, so I canceled.

As for Mr. Allgood: the texting exchange I shared with you in my last post was all that was said. He didn't pursue the conversation further. And, that really speaks volumes. While I realize it's unrealistic for someone like him to start opening his heart and "getting it" overnight, I was thinking that if he was the slightest bit jarred that his marriage is now over, I might have gotten something more of a response.

So, I can't help him. I am accepting this. Yesterday I told him that this is such an important decision in our lives that either one of us should be able to reopen the conversation at any point, as long as the other one is willing to engage in the conversation.

Honest:

WH seems to LOVE this superficial niceness That way he is "off the hook" and doesn't get any consequences or made to feel uncomfortable
.

While I wouldn't say that Mr. Allgood loves our current sitch, there does seem to be a bit of weight off of everyone's shoulders. The day I found the photo, he didn't seem to be himself, the days afterwards he was more helpful around the house than usual, but otherwise pretty happy.

While I wish I meant more to him, I am trying to understand that people change and we may just not be "right" for each other anymore. Maybe he is satisfied being roommates and co-parenting and being allowed to have his fun on the side without any grief from me. I will never be out of his life and he knows it. Guess he's ok with that.

And, I am ok with it too. Tho, I started thinking about vacations that we had started discussing taking together and whether we shoudl just do one last trip with the kids at the end of the summer- after telling them at the beginning of the summer of the break-up, just so they can see that their lives will be relatively unchanged by this.

I am making plans to move on myself. I am going to think of something that will get me out of the house, something new that will get me happy and excited, while also putting me in contact with other like-minded people (and who may also be cute, single men! - Eye candy only, of course - I realize I'm not readyfor dating at all. Lol.). I am also planning on going to some of his family events (there are a lot of them), but not all.
I'm going to give him about 2 months and then I'm going to start pushing for him to start looking for him to find a place to live so that when we tell the kids, he's also ready to go. Man, there's going to have to be a lot of logistics involved in this...

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm ok. I am accepting that for whatever reason, he is not willing or able to meet my needs. It may or may not have anything to do with OW. And, I have no choice. I do feel I have said and done everything I could to salvage this and I am at peace with my decision.
No more waiting, no more hoping. I'm creating new plans, with new hopes.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone... Good for you! You do things that make you feel better.

If your H has those thoughts as Iwant says...

I would be better off without him
then so be it. My wife said exactly the same thing. It must be in the Cheater Got Caught Handbook of What to Say.... I would always tell her You want me, then you can have me. It's your choice.

Anyways, I would draw up that agreement. If I were married to a divorce lawyer and in trouble, I would plan a sneak attack. It may not make a difference in law but that's just me. You could always hand it to him with a note saying, with great pain, with great willingness and wanting you to know difference between right from wrong in a marriage. I don't believe you know... I give you this to sign...

Based on all you say, I think your H wants to be single. But have the comfort of the family. It's good for him you are going to let him have that until the summer. I wouldn't but that's me and not you. I understand that may make it easier for you since kids are involved.
Anyway, I know you will land on your feet one way or another...


Nell.. Good for you! I bet your note meant just as much to him as you.. You just told him in that note you wanted him.. affirmed him and the time spent is all cake! My W and I did the same thing several times in that 1st and 2nd year.. all good memories...

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:58 AM, January 6th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bil was not an issue, he is pathetic.
And not worth wasting emotional energy on. POS lower than low. It’s good to read that you have been able to support each other. You’re a star, Ats!

But she won me over by validating, in front of FWH, that I am NOT just "hanging on to my anger" and that my wildly swinging moods was completely normal. She asked me if I had gotten all of my questions about the A answered and was understanding when I told her that I was reluctant to ask anything more as FWH thinks I'm dragging out my depression. She told me, again in front of FWH, that I was in NO WAY responsible for FWH having an A.
Yay for you! Mr Strongish NEEDS someone who is not directly involved to shove this point across. Perhaps now he will start to get it. We all know what it’s like having to put on that mask and act like everything is okay.

And once again MIL stuck her foot in it. We met up for coffee on our way home from taking my parents back. He parting question was “why won’t you wear your wedding ring?” FFS!!! I said something about FWH being carefree with his proposals when what I should have said was “none of your damn business!” Or maybe I should simply tell her the truth – that I won’t wear one again and to stop asking.

m33, I hadn’t realised that you had received a new prognosis that Baby Paddy may never walk. I would hold on to the fact that most consultants seem to give an opinion that is more pessimistic than optimistic on the basis that any improvement on the expected lower level is seen as a leaps and bounds improvement by the parents. I do hope this is the case and that the determined efforts of everyone proves that she will far exceed all “expectation”. With you as her mother, nothing’s going to stop her being 100% of what she can be. She’s a little star, and you are wonderful!

“What is closest to your heart?” The area I have been trying to work on is the same sort of thought process. Prioritising. Is this important now? How much will it matter tomorrow, next week, next month or next year. Or even in 5yrs time. I was such a stickler for things being right, of following the process, of getting things done. But that’s because someone has to be organised when H is so disorganised. He flits from one thing to another, never finishing anything. He’s been finding out what happens when I don’t anticipate for him. He’s the one who loses. So that’s what I’m doing. Asking myself the same question several times a day. Is this important? No? Let it go then.

Yesterday I told him that this is such an important decision in our lives that either one of us should be able to reopen the conversation at any point, as long as the other one is willing to engage in the conversation.
Allgood, what is he frightened of? It sounds as though he is self flagellating to the point where he can say “see, told you so” and wash his hands of all responsibility. In one way, I can understand that. But on the other, it is such a dragging down of you, the BW, that you cannot offer him any more than you have already. I can’t understand why he won’t break out of that prison he has created for himself.

Stay on track, and get all the ducks lined up – including the agreement. Make sure you have back up plans too so you know you can survive without him if he chooses to make life difficult. I like what Tryn’ says.

Nell,


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: you sound at peace with your decision...and i love that the door is open if he decided to "get it" or stop doing stupid so well.....but yet it also means that by the time he does do that you may have moved on completely in your heart....which is the point i am currently arriving at...saints be praised....it doesn't mean that i dont still hurt, but i just dont feel the same for him anymore...slowly, wish it were faster, but slowly the death of the love is finally arriving....i feel the shift within and it feels great..still not 100% there yet, but i know i will be...as will you.....


honest i misspelled in my post to you..i meant to say help de-personalize....i don't understand what held de=personlize means... ....sometimes spelling errors can be funny and sometimes just downright confusing...when i read it back this am i was confused myself and had to figure out what i was trying to say.. ...i befuddle myself sometimes...


ukgirl:

Prioritising. Is this important now? How much will it matter tomorrow, next week, next month or next year. Or even in 5yrs time.

i use this mentality when housecleaning is needed....in 2016 i won't give a hoots ass is there was dust on the furniture in 2011...


seriously though, it is always better to look at the whole picture..taking in the grand scheme of life...as long as you are not so goal oriented that you forget to live in the now.....kind of what happened to me for all of my marriage...thank god i did take the time to enjoy my kids through every stage of their beings.....just not the "happily ever after" part of marriage...always waiting for something else to happen to be at peace with our marriage...now i know why, but that is neither here or nor there ANYMORE...


it is what it is and it will no become what i make of it....living for today, preparing for tomorrow, remembering that i cannot control it all, so i will do what i can and let go of the rest....

damned thats a long new motto...hard to remember all the pieces of it too!!

(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just read this in ws forum coutesy of missjai from the dailyom (not other man)...and i wanted to share, it just seems so appropriate for a few of us..


One of the hardest decisions we ever make in life is leaving a long-term relationship that just isn't working. When attempts at repairing and working out issues aren't working, it may be time to examine moving on. We are emotional creatures, and when our heartstrings are tied to those of another, separating from that person can feel like an act of courage. It is not something most of us will take lightly, and many of us will struggle with our desire to stay in a relationship that is unfulfilling simply in order to avoid that pain. We may question whether the happiness we seek even exists, and we may wonder if we might be wiser to simply settle where we are, making the best of what we have.

On the one hand, we almost relish the idea that true happiness is not out there so that we can avoid the pain of change. On the other hand, we feel within ourselves a yearning to fulfill our desire for relationships that are vital and healing. Ultimately, most of us will follow this call, because deep within ourselves we know that we deserve to be happy. We all deserve to be happy, no matter where we find ourselves in this moment, and we are all justified in moving, like plants toward the light, in the direction that leads to our greatest fulfillment. First, though, we may need to summon the courage to move on from the relationship that appears to be holding us back.

Taking the first steps will be hard, but the happiness we find when we have freed ourselves from a situation that is draining our energy will outshine any hardship we undergo to get there. Keeping our eyes trained on the horizon, we begin the work of disentangling ourselves from the relationship that no longer fits. Every step brings us closer to a relationship that will work, and the freedom we need to find the happiness we deserve.


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish, I'm glad that you found a good MC. It will be good for your healing and hopefully for WH to wake up.

Allgood: you sound good. Your text is good. I hope your WH finally gets his head out of his ass. Keep posting here and venting. I would guess that you are starting to feel like a heavy burden has been lifted from your shoulders. You have been trying to R more or less by yourself, just going in circles in an almost limbo. Keep up the emotional detachment. {{{{allgood}}}

Miracle, it's all right about typos, I read and write typoese quite well!

Ukgirl: I hope your father is feeling better. Forget about MIL. Make up some excuse like "the ring doesn't fit anymore" which is true.....

{{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle - I like that passage you posted. Thanks for sharing!

As for my sitch - I believe my WH thinks that there is no way in Hell he's ever going to be able to explain away that photo to me, or ever get me to trust him again. I think he sees it as my decision and he's oomplying. I also don't think he's really dealing with the reality of it yet.

I don't know why he doesn't seem to be upset that we aren't talking or texting each other anymore. I don't know why he doesn't miss that, or miss any physical contact. Maybe he misses some or all of this but is just accepting it as his fate. And, I'm sure he doesn't know how to get out of this jam and so why bother trying.

Again, the agreement doesn't really help me at this point. I did approach him this morning, however, about refinancing our mortage to incorporate a loan we took from my parents so that the payments will be more managable for us when he moves out this summer. i will be moving forward on this asap. That may be the very first serious wake up call for him. Whatever.I'm not holding my breath.
And, btw, VERY cute court officer in court today.

ETA: Already got the quote on the refi and discussed it with WH who said we would wait & see. (The refi makes no financial sense unless we are separting households.)I pressed and asked, well aren't you moving out in the summer? And, he said he had not thought about it. Wow.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 11:27 AM, January 6th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello Tribe,

This is our first calm day since Saturday. Life is good.

My MIL had been quite ill for over a year, and so her death was not unexpected. FWW is not torn by her Mother's death, she has actually been happy to be able to spend time with her Father without everything being about her Mother. I think we will see a blossoming and renaissance in her Father now that he is freed of caring for a needy (not just medically) wife.

FWW has talked repeatedly of a veil lifting and a fog clearing. She enjoyed re-introducing me to her family and friends I have not seen in over 10 years while she was closing me out of her life. She reached out for me to be close to her all day. BIL was clearly uncomfortable and avoided her and I other than a perfunctory handshake. He was very isolated from the center of activities. FWW’s older DD who has been so angry towards me was subdued. She was not angry; as FWW put it she was like a dog with its tail between its legs. She avoided me, and moved away anytime FWW reached out to me. When I did approach her to say hi and ask how she was doing she was clearly uncomfortable.

FWW’s family was as they are, dysfunctional, but FWW was able to transcend that and we were our own family. It has been a very easy trip for us together. We have bonded as a family and it is clear that there is a reorganizing of the loyalty lines between FWW, her family and us. We feel sorry for BIL and SIL. She is numb to any emotion and fears losing control. BIL is just pathetic. I am happy to be doing well with my FIL who I have not seen in years, and chatting with FWW’s extended family.

My WS has and continues to do the painful internal work. She teared-up repeatedly as she said how sad she was that she had not understood. There is some re-writing of our history going on, making actions less about her resenting me and hating me, and more about trying to spare me from the dysfunction of her family. That is OK. Just as the BS has to do whatever it takes to come to healing and peace, so does the remorseful FWS.

We are spiritual, but not a religious couple. Still, there have been some amazing occurrences and coincidences during this trip.

I have feared this event. I knew my MIL’s death was coming and I feared FWW would backslide and revert to old behaviors. She has not. She has risen above. It has been a joy being together.

We are all taking a side trip tomorrow to visit an old family friend in a town where we once lived. He knows our story and supported me, but FWW is insistent she wants to come along.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow ATs, that's great!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has been a joy being together.
Ats - isn't that what a M should be about?? I get teary thinking of how special a feeling this is for you. Perhaps more than other couples that have not experienced infidelity in relationships, we here in LTA can appreciate that that's really what M is all about. You don't have to agree on every little detail, but you should have joy in each other such that the details don't matter so much and you can overlook small hurts and trust that despite their faults, your S still loves you. I have lost that trust in my FWH. We had a long talk this morning about an episode last night. I wanted to wait until this morning so that I wasn't on the attack but I also wanted to make it clear to him what he did and how it was perceived by me.

In a nutshell we were having a good night, he was giving me a download of his day, had a glass of wine, I had made a nice dinner and in the middle of our conversation he got up, picked up his laptop and logged on to check his work e-mail. No mention to me that he needed to spend some time on work, answer some e-mails, etc.....he just began ignoring me and started to work. Now, in the past I would have just accepted that his mind was in overdrive with trying to catch up with the daily dust-ups in his consulting work (he gets probably 50 e-mails/day with problems that only he can solve!). He had to spend the day in training yesterday which means that he didn't have access to his computer all day so the work had been building up all day. I get that.....and in the past I would have sympathized with how hard he works (two full-time jobs) and would not have taken offense at his attitude/behavior. But there is a new dynamic in our relationship. It's not that I don't still recognize that he was feeling the stress/anxiety of the work that was waiting for him, I do, I get that....but one of his descriptions of why he felt "neglected" by me was that I didn't give him attention when he came home from an out-of-town trip. This made his feel unloved and he used that to help justify why he should seek attention elsewhere. But I wanted him to see that when he did the same thing to me by suddenly starting to ignore me, in the middle of spending time and having a conversation, that I had given him the benefit of the doubt. I trusted that he still loved me but was preoccupied with work. He did not give me the benefit of the doubt when he felt ignored by me. He decided that my behavior meant that I didn't love him and so he was justified in finding love/attention somewhere else. Well...as you can imagine this comparison wasn't popular. He did listen carefully and after several tries we did make some progress in his seeing what I was talking about. He's still very defensive and will try and steer the conversation into other areas that are irrelevant but that put him in a better light. I'm getting better at keeping us on topic though.

Miracle - I LOVED the quote and plan to save it to my desktop to read more frequently. Thank you for taking the time to post it.

Gotta go tribe...have a lunch date with a friend.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hmm. I read that posting in Wayward and wasn’t too sure about it. I did read it as the WS crying out “I have a right to be happy!” and grabbing that “happiness” at such a huge cost. What about the BS’s right to happiness? Or the children’s rights? It was that pursuit of the elusive Butterfly of Happiness that led to infidelity. Yes, we should move out of relationships that are unhealthy or toxic or just plain not working. But only after we have tried all avenues to see if there are enough points of happiness in that existing relationship to make the effort worthwhile.

I do think that so much is driven by right-now-this-minute-can’t-wait, instant gratification with the least amount of time, energy and emotion spent. And so many WS’s say that the primary relationship isn’t working after moving into an affair. Their “right” to happiness is at the expense of so many other people’s happiness. The happiness of the individual should not be paramount, it should be a by product of a life well spent, a holistic life, a life fulfilled within the society in which you live. A hedonistic “me, me, me” approach alienates friends and family and all relationships are doomed to be temporary as the WS realises again and again that the happiness they desperately seek, constantly seek and never really find, is always just out of reach. All they need to do is look within and stop being so fucking self centred.

I never knew my WH was unhappy. He never told me. He carried on sleeping with me, having sex with me, going out with me, cooking with me, having holidays with me, spending “quality time” with me, telling me he loved me(!???), buying me gifts, etc, etc. If he didn’t tell me what was wrong, how was I to know? The fact was, he wasn’t unhappy until he thought he could have something better. And only when everything was in jeopardy, his whole life was collapsing, did he realise what he DID have and that he SHOULD have been happy; that his unhappiness was of his own making.

If you want happiness for an hour, take a nap.
If you want happiness for a day, go fishing.
If you want happiness for a year, inherit a fortune.
If you want happiness for a lifetime, help somebody.

Sorry. I hope this doesn’t read the wrong way. It’s the thought of WH being “happy” with MOW, happy enough to plan to leave without giving a flying fuck about the devastation he would leave behind. Selfish bastard.

FWW has talked repeatedly of a veil lifting and a fog clearing. She enjoyed re-introducing me to her family and friends I have not seen in over 10 years while she was closing me out of her life. She reached out for me to be close to her all day
This is just wonderful! I’m happy (and I mean happy!) for you. Great stuff Ats. And have a fabulous day tomorrow.

he just began ignoring me and started to work.
Grrrr!!! It was verrrry important that you did not let this go. He has to realise that his ways and attitude have to change, and that includes apologising to you because he has to deal with these emails tonight, that he’ll get them done asap and close down for the night. It’s manners and common courtesy as well as acting in a more loving and considerate way. Treat others as you’d like to be treated yourself, damnit!
Hope you enjoyed your lunch.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:49 PM, January 6th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bit of a meltdown this evening. I guess I thought me pushing the refinance (aka we are really over) conversation was going to produce a terribly remorseful, desperate to save his marriage response in my H.
Not so much.
He basically wanted to try to just co-exist and just sleep in a room he creates in the basement, but wasn't sure if that was going to be something I would want long term (meaning if and when I was in an actual relationship, I wouldn't want my XH in the basement.)

I basically cracked from the lack of emotion on his part and said how I was hoping all of this would shake him up and he'd realize what's really important, etc.

Before our actual DDay it was his opinion that no one recovers from an A, and he says he thought that while we were trying to reconcile as well, and now this has just made it worse. Still swears up & down that he didn't talk to her at all, which is making it harder for me to stay firm. He said he wants us to stay together. I said I'd have to see that he's in this 200% for me to even try to get past this photo thing. I told him that I wish he didn't have such a defeatist attitude about this whole thing, etc.
At the end of this conversation (which I ended just to stop my own babbling, there was no real closure), he gave me a big hug, and in that moment I just wanted to say F-it, let me try again. I just wanted to kiss him.
But, I didn't, which is good, but I see my strength cracking. Part of my strength was in the photo and believing there can't be any possible way to explain that. His consistent denials under these circumstances, when I'm basically telling him that I just want to see he is being honest with me, just tell me what they spoke about, etc. make me think he's telling the truth. Or is that desperation. Idk anymore.
I'm going to the gym now.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: the post i took from wayward..i loved what the inital message, hated what it became in the forum....it got all twisted....but the message to me at least is clear and applies to everyone....it also is meant for those who don't use it as an excuse to justify whatever behavior....if people are honest and above board the message is a good one.....for those who go to the darkside...well it really doesn't matter because those people will do whatever they need to do for their own selfish gain....and it will be your fault...my fault, anyone's fault but their own...


ats: i am so so happy for you and your wife....it is so good for us to see that happy is possible....


strong: i am glad you spoke up...it also sounds like you didn't lose it on him, kept your cool, remained calm and rational....not easy to do when you really just want to hit them upside the head and yell HELLO!!!



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: next time kiss him if that is what you want...do not let fear dictate what you should and should not do...its bad enough that is what is driving him...you are the only one working at this...i won't sugar coat that...his defeatest attitude is keeping him back....and i really believe he believes all of what he tells himself...

allgood..what if he IS telling the truth??? and i am sorry i know this is hard...and i am probably not helping..i just don't want you to do something you are clearly not ready to do...

mr allgood is truly a stupid man...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats: Condolences to your FWW on the loss of her mother. I'm glad to read that the two of you are dealing with this together, as a couple. You are making good progress, imho.
{{{ATS}}}

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, January 6th (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle:
what if he IS telling the truth???

Well, then this wouldn't be a dealbreaker. I mean, I was already very unhappy about both his decision to go to the xmas party and then his behavior in choosing to go to the after party, etc. as it was. I was already unhappy about his attitude when he was complying with my request that he not go, which was a very reasonable request given the 100% chance that OW would be there. You guys know the history. Long story short, I had concerns throughout this R that he was not as committed to change, to me, as I would like. I still felt unsafe and unappreciated to an extent.
If it was as he said - that they didn't even speak - then this would just be a topic of mc - how complete honesty is the only option in this relationship - especially as pertains to OW. How, he shouldn't be afraid to tell me that he did the right thing for fear that I will freak out or whatever... You know what I mean.

But, the reality is that it just seems soooo unlikely that he is telling the truth and I was already feeling like a doormat given recent events, to take a G'damn photo of them and explain it away and believe in him again... well, I don't know if that's just not going to continue the misery. He literally has NO credibility with me now. Plus, I burned a few investigative bridges when I decided it was over - which was funny as Hell at the time. , but I wouldn't have as much information about stuff going on at his workplace now. Which would leave me feeling uneasy. That's why I would need to see like superhuman level of effort from him to continue.

And as far as kissing him goes - then he knows he can just charm me back in. That would not be good.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:40 PM, January 6th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

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