I could make an example-a-week calendar... this week: "Makes new male friends who are in healthy, monogamous, stable, long-term relationships and spends time with them" and add kitty-cat pictures or something
HOly crap! That would be F-n awesome. Could you seriously do a desktop calendar for 2012. I think I know someone who would like to receive that as a present. Lol...
But, seriously, how do you think your H is going to respond to your list? Does he take these things seriously at all? I'm just worried that since he didn't even do his homework, it might be indicative of his overall reluctance to participate in this task. And, isn't he the one whose last list was basically "Nell should be my cheerleader?" I just hope you don't get disappointed with his effort and I hope he really listens when you give him this list. I think my H's head is so far up his ass that he wouldn't even understand anything but the very specific examples of what he should do or not do.
THat's awful news for your friend. Truly awful. I hope she is ok. I will be thinking of her.
And as for the Super-Mom/BW, I have to admit, I did my fair share of complaining. I was really damn overwhelmed the last couple of years and told him so, to no avail. 1 of the main problems in our relationship. I was resentful that he left everything to me and he was resentful that I was too tired/too resentful to have any energy left for him.
And, finally, WH has returned from his weekend away with the boys. He dropped his bag, I grabbed my keys and went to the gym. When I returned, I took a shower & by the time I got out, he had already put our daughter to sleep and was asleep himself.
I have been happier and sadder this weekend than I have been in a long time. (What I mean to say is I saw some of myself returning & had some moments of true happiness this weekend. I also cried my eyes out SAt. night.)
But, I really thought with literally no contact for the last 2 days, didn't even see each other, I really thought he would've made more of an effort to try to talk to me. I guess he's fine with the break-up.
ETA: Laura - we cross-posted - I will keep you and your family in my prayers. That's just scary.
And Nell - Good luck tomorrow. I hope you have fun, whatever you do. (And, btw, just for reference purposes, I went to Trigger City for the day - the same place I found out about his A in the 1st place - and all I got from WH was holding my hand as we went to go unpack the car.)
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:04 PM, January 10th (Monday)]
I thought about you, and I also know of the member with the spoofed US location. I did not want to say anything because any time there is a hurricane in some other part of Florida people email to see if we are OK, and Austrailia is a bit bigger than FL. Sorry to learn you are being in fact being affected. I will think of you during my meditations tomorrow.
njgal480, I picked up yoga soon after dday. FWW had been doing it for a few years (during A's), but has not continued once I started ???? I used to have a chronic back problem where a mule kicked me 25 years ago, no issues since I started yoga (and lost 60#).
for all who are still working towards healing, I can tell you that in my sich nothing I did (or she did)really mattered until FWW started to own her shit and attend IC. Not MC, that just helped to control the tension. It took her IC and facing her reality to move us forward. Once she did that, the A crap for me began to dissolve. I can think back and feel pain for what she did with the OM, but there is no point in follwoing up on it. She is no longer that person. The A is truly in our past.
I am seeing ripples of FWW's healing reaching other family members (older stepdaughter, DS18) and changes occuring in them too.
laura: praying for the aussies tonite....
fun: kickboxing...go baby go.. kick some major ass....
nell, i liked the list very much...the 5 pages of examples....gotta admit ..sound a bit much..
strong: i will keep your friend in my prayers as well...
as for the rest of the talk in here...boobs/superwoman.....no boobs here, and happy for it....had them when i was pregnant and was so so happy to be rid of them, of course between the breast feeding and the subsequent weight loss, they are not "up" to any kind of par..... every ow had bigger ones which made him very happy
...as for superwoman...not me....never was....but we are not the usual case of infidelity....
but the one thing i could relate to was that give him an inch on anything the man would take a fucking mile....ever fucking time...
set down some new rules today with my boys...i drive them every morn to school...every morning i tell them bye and to have a good day...every morning i get "NOTHING"...so i usually yell out " oh, you too mom"...do they get the hint...NOPE...so tonite i told them that i was tired of being treated so rudely...if i get rude when i am giving them a ride...then the next ride is null and void and they could walk...now when i take them to school its early and to walk to the school would take them about a half hour compared to the 10 min drive....manchild of course fought the longest and loudest...trying to tell me that this is not backing off like the therapist said i should do... reminded him that this is simple manners...you either have them or you don't, and if you don't i am done doing....i didn't raise them to be so rude....i have gotten quite lax with them..trying to pick and choose my battles...but damn i hate rude...i am one of those people that will say something to others, strangers included...like when a door is not held open, i will usually yell "oh thankyou"...not a yell yell, but kind of a statement thing...so we will see if i could instill those manners back in my kids...and if not, i get to sleep in.. hehe
Allgood: I'm so sorry that your WH is not stepping up to the plate. He is trying to live a single life going out with the boys, going snowboarding, etc, and still wanting the benefits of a married life.
I really don't think he fully realizes how serious you are. He probably thinks you are just mad and it will blow over and things will go back to "normal". How sad that he can't see the consequences of his actions, or perhaps he doesn't WANT to see?
As for not feeling the love for WH prior to DDay? Perhaps that was just frustration and resentment from having to do so much and not getting that much help from WH, not working together as a couple and just DOING things to get them done and not enjoying life together? We ALL have fallen into that pattern. I know I did with first xWH.
Miracle: I do need to reclaim my life. OW does have plenty of her own, though. Her own apt. that WH bought for her, plus all my stuff, including WH.
I feel so badly that you can't properly vent and let out your frustrations here. You keep too much bottled up inside you. It's very difficult doing what you are doing, but it will be at the expense of your emotional well being, which is also not good for your kids. Manchild, is a teenager, and you will survive this. I felt the peak for boys is 17 for some reason, and then they become more "human". Hang in there.
I don't think your WH really gets what you are saying. He really seems to think all is well. He still doesn't "get it".
Strongish: I never thought about it, but you are right, WH does give with one hand and takes away with the other, and definitely wants to be in control. I hope your friend is doing better. I sometimes wonder what has happened to integrity and principle?
Dip: I did want to break something, and did inadvertantly do some damage to the kitchen drawer when I slammed it shut. So now, I will have to fix it. WH is hopeless when it comes to home repair and needs applause when he changes a lightbulb!
Ats: You are right, as long as I pretend everything is ok, then WH has power over me. But I was trying to play it smart by letting WH THINK he has power over me, but it backfired. When I do that, WH is all nice and sweet and happy and I get reeled in AGAIN in the fantasy world that all is ok. <sigh>
I'm very happy for you that your and Mrs. Ats are doing better and better and you have started repairing your relationship with FIL.
As for the triggers, Ats, I don't think having them shows we are not healing. It will take a long time, and even then we will still get a trigger that will sadden us, but won't devastate us.
NJ Gal: You have given such wonderful advice about what changes are needed for a successful R. It was beautiful how your FWH says that he wants everything perfect for you.
I'm sorry you are still having triggers. I know we all wish they would go away permanently.
UKgirl: I know, why do they still lie?
..he was my rock....an illusion...all veneer and no substance...
The only Aesop's fable that came to mind was the wolf in sheep's clothing, but that isn't what you were thinking of!!
FnF: It is true about setting someone free. We cannot control what others do or feel or think. It is an illusion that we can. I liked the way that you described that you set your boundaries and kept them.
Broken Promise: I'm sorry you are going throught the rage phase. The roller coaster is so difficult. Hang in there and vent here!
NoFun: Good for you with taking up kickboxing. I know what you mean about the WS saying the BS will never get over it. They don't want to face the consequences or repercussions of the A and what they caused. They don't want to look themselves in the face and really see the damage that was done.
Nell: I like your needs list and it's good that you have examples. Those examples are good for you to explore your feelings but to give it to WH, he might feel overwhelmed. Maybe pare down the examples and make them more simple and concrete? LOL, having diagrams and coloring pictures might be just the thing they need!
Tryn: You always give such wonderful advice to everyone. The list of un-intact vs intact boundaries really hit a nerve with me, and I knew even before I read it on your post that they were co-dependent issues. Still working on that.
Yes, I too, tried to be Super Mom/super woman. Tried to do it all and it became my job. Didn' ask for help and became frustrated, bitter and resentful.
WH went back!!!! I feel so much calmer!! I couldn't wait. I feel like a ran a marathon and need to relax.
I agree, if you feel they are rude, then tell them they can walk the next day. Too bad.
Now, if I can only set boundaries up like that for WH, I'll be better off!!
ats: the people in your lives:
dr phil says it all the time...we cannot change anybody but us...combine that with we teach people how to treat us......
so in effect your wife has changed who she is, thereby changing the dynamics with all the people in her life...so yay mrs ats
welcome back honest: i am assuming he went back overseas and you are "free" of his short leash....take this time and get yourself strong again, and this time there will be no holidays for you to debate with...time for you to take care of you and your boys...put yourselves in the forefront and take your life back...
eta: more cross posting i see...
the walk is about a half hour..not to bad...used to take me 45 minutes to get to school, taking a city bus...if the bus was late, so was i...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 11:19 PM, January 10th (Monday)]
About my butterflies:
A few weeks ago I commented to husband that there were several butterflies around. We rarely see them anymore which I find sad. I have always loved them.
Anyway, I did some research, identified them and found they only reproduce on one plant - a weed we have to eradicate (by law) but which has grown out of control this year. Because of all the rain we have not been able to slash our paddocks. The research I did said that only 10% of caterpillars survive in the wild but 90% do in captivity. So I decided to help them out and "breed butterflies" - much more fun than breeding ducks
I created a house for them, collected the caterpillars and brought them feed each day.
What I didn't anticipate was that each time I collected food I was also collecting tiny eggs and miniscule baby caterpillars so my breeding flock? herd? just kept growing. They were safe from birds etc in my breeding place so soon I had lots and lots. The caterpillars grew very big and fat quickly and soon turned into chrysalises. My first butterfly hatched this morning and flew off this afternoon (It takes a day for them to dry out their wings).
Anyway this little "hobby" has been lots of fun. I love watching them grow, find a place to attach and then create their chrysalis. I was amazed to see that the caterpillar changed to a chrysalis in less than 2 minutes.
Here are some pics of my babies. The butterfly at the bottom is the first to hatch. It flew off this afternoon.
The caterpillars hatch out of the eggs, start out almost invisible and grow to about 3" long in a few days.
They then find a place to attach themselvs and hang there for a day or so. Then they shed their skins (takes less than 2 minutes and is extraordinary to watch) and this chrysallis is left hanging where the caterpillar was.
After about 10 days the butterfly emerges from the chrysallis
Aren't they fabulous???
Love to all
[This message edited by Laura28 at 3:12 AM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
Laura – I’ve been reading and watching about the floods in Queensland. We know folks (friends of friends we stayed with) who live on a hill (thankfully) just outside Brisbane. The boys spent a fair bit of time there when travelling and DS2 went trekking. DS1 met a long term gf there. There just seems to be no end to it. Stay safe. And those idiots driving into the floods – what WERE they thinking of?? And people seem to think you can wade through okay – rushing water above your knees will knock you off your feet, it really doesn’t have to be that deep to be dangerous. I think about the situation a lot during the day – it’s on every tv news broadcast.
And as for the Super-Mom/BW, I have to admit, I did my fair share of complaining.
I really thought he would've made more of an effort to try to talk to me. I guess he's fine with the break-up.
The A is truly in our past.
I am seeing ripples of FWW's healing reaching other family members (older stepdaughter, DS18) and changes occuring in them too.
Miracle – good manners cost nothing and help make life’s path a little smoother. Please and thank you are essential in my book and well done you for sticking to it. Parents get fed up with being taken for granted and little reminders (no, I am not here at your beck and call – do it yourself) are also little wake ups.
WH went back!!!! I feel so much calmer!!
Laura – WOW! What beautiful butterflies! And so rewarding for you that you are helping nature in such a positive way……who’d have thought a little intervention could be so satisfying. Thanks for posting the pics!
Okay, gotta get on with the day.
I’d ask him to do something – it wouldn’t get done. I’d ask a second time and get accused of nagging. In the end, it was easier to just do [whatever] myself.
This was the story of my life. Even when we had the race horse stud I couldn't even rely on him to post a cheque. I'd ask him to do it and then get a reminder from a supplier because the bill was overdue. I'd find the letter with the cheque in his car a month or more later. Guess he was too busy with his whores to go to the post office
Can't believe how similar all our stories are. I'm starting to think the cheats marry competent, organised, attractive, hard working, faithful women to look after them so they have no responsibilities or worries to occupy them and they can go off and cheat in peace
Thanks for your concern re the floods. "They" say our river will peak at 7.3m tomorrow morning. "They" are very unreliable If we go to more than 7.8m the levees around the town will go and thousands of people will lose their homes and be in real danger! Here's hoping they are right this time.
Some of the people in Toowoomba who got stuck or lost their lives were not actually behaving irresponsibly (although I have seen this lots of times!!!). The city really did get a mini tsunami (2m or 6'6") which literally came out of nowhere and swept through the streets. People had no time to move parked vehicles or even get off the road. It is amazing that more were not killed. Brisbane is starting to be a real worry. Keep our friends there in your prayers please.
Thinking of both you and your friend. Tell her to come here. We will look after her!!!
I was resentful that he left everything to me and he was resentful that I was too tired/too resentful to have any energy left for him.
This was me too!!
I have saved and look at your pic often - what is he thinking????????? I really truly do think he is having some kind of psychotic break. Dear God is there no one who can shake him out of his madness??? HUGS to you!!
So happy for you!
Honest - He's gone YAY - but honey you really do need him gone for good!!!!
You are a great mum (aussie) mom (yank). Your kids must adore you!!! When they are older they will really respect you for teaching them the right way to live. Congratulations to you for standing by your values!!!! and teaching them those same values. They will become adults to be proud of!!!!
Thanks for the list. I'd really like the whole thing including the 5 pages of examples. You could pm me if you'd be embarrassed about taking a whole page of LTA
Thanks for the food for thought. Sometimes though you make me think too hard. It's evening and I'm having my Merlots. Will think about what you said tomorrow. BTW - Thought you might like my butterflies - they live in the same realm as your birds I think.
Would be nice to hear more from you. Our ddays are so close and I often feel much as you do.
I guess she was hoping I'd leave him!
Believe me, I was tempted but why throw away so many years without giving us a chance to see if we still had something worth working for? He is working very hard and doing so much to make up for his A. It's not always easy but it helps so much to see him try
He has cried and pleaded and assured me that he was never in love with her. He admits he was just being totally selfish and never really thought about how devastating it would be to all of us.
I could have written these words. I would love to know. I know you will never forget but do you think you have forgiven?
Where are you? I really thought that more chat about boobs would bring you out!!!
Keep kicking honey!!!
[This message edited by Laura28 at 4:46 AM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
The butterflies... What can I say. Of course, they are gorgeous and I really am amazed that you think to take on such a thing and wow, what great results! I always enjoy your posts about your home as it's clearly so different then here. It sounds like you guys have a large property, with so much room for breeding! Lol. (I did not overlook the fact that here your H is breeding ducks and you are breeding butterflies... Something in common!)
Please keep us updated on your sitch - I remain concerned even tho you sounded very confident that you and your family would be ok. (Tho the loss of property - that's still very devastating.)
Glad to hear from you, but I am calling you out: I want you to tell us what your plan is for moving forward, even just what the 1st baby step will be by Friday OR respond to what we all posted and tell us why we are wrong.
Y'know I love ya - but I really can't stand to see you suffer (more) everytime Mr. Dishonest comes home. Next time MUST be different!
How did you and PFM do with your plan? And, I agree about the rudeness. The 1 thing that makes me snap fast is a display of rudeness (which I equate with disrespect) from my kids. Good for you!
Very happy for you, very happy. Was a little taken aback by your statement that you were kicked by a mule... Not sure what the circumstances could've been about that... Lol.
Everyone else: hope all is well & thank you for your thoughts.
As to the my H is a fuckwit comments: Yes, yes he is.
This am I decided to call him on his way to work and just ask him what he was thinking, what his plans were for us. I really think he's just accepted it's over. To summarize, he wants to be with me, but was not happy with all the mc and talking about the A. Thinks we should just be loving and attentive. Made some stupid remarks like I tell him it's over every few months, which I quickly corrected him it was 3-4 times over the past 16 months and all in response to something horrible that he did: secret phone, lying about whereabouts (2x), photo.
I told him that I acknowledge that I did not marry someeon who wears his heart on his sleeve or likes to talk about his feelings, so I understand that. He said that I wasn't like that either, so why has that changed? I then explained that I don't think he understands the depth of the impact this has had upon me and that my emotional needs have changed because I don't have the foundation to be otherwise - I don't "Know" that he loves me and is committed to me anymore.
Whatever. I could go on and on, but that's the gist of it.
After a week in the great white north, it was an odd feeling yesterday every time I walked outside without a coat on.
Laura, very nice pictures and story with the butterflies. Mrs. Ats is quite the butterfly fan, she has our yard all planted with special plants. I think the plants attract the butterflies so they will lay eggs where the caterpillars will eat my vegetables. There are a few places here in Florida that raise butterflies commercially. They sell them to release at special events like weddings, or offer "Tea" in the butterfly garden.
allgood, The story of my mule kick. Early in life, I was a schoolteacher, and as a new schoolteacher, I was roped into participating in a Donkey Basketball game where you play basketball riding on a donkey. I am sure the PETA people no longer allow this. The donkeys are good at all sorts of motions to get you to slide or fall off their backs. Great fun for the crowd. As I got up after a fall, a donkey kicked with its rear legs, just as you see in the movies and caught me in the lower back. I was very stiff and sore for weeks. I should have filed for workers' compensation.
iwam, I feel your anger over rude teen boys. FWIW, we have found that while our boys could be rude to us, especially to FWW, they were reported to be perfect gentlemen when at their friends houses. It is not that they were bad boys, just that separation and beginning to detach from being children.
As for the boobs talk, FWW liked Big Boobs apparently, judging from her OM.
Last night FWW and I talked a bit about differences in our families and how she "acted" around the OM during her A. Her family is very gushing with I love yous, mine is not. OTOH, when we went last night (5 hr round trip)to pick-up our car DS18 left with my folks, they had tea made the way FWW likes it, and special snacks in case we wanted a bite before returning. This is after they stepped up to help shuttle the car when DS18's plans for doing this feel through. This is my family, not very gushy or touchy, but trying to do what they can to help the ones they love. FWW's family will say they I love you to each other all day long, but her parents would visit in a town 5 miles from us and not have time to stop in and say hello.
My trigger on the flight back was thinking FWW behaved with OM they way that she did with me. Affectionate, touching, leaning in to nap or rest. While it really does not (should not?) matter now, it bothered me. She told me that in all of her A's she was paranoid and behaved very appropriate around OM in public. She said if anyone suspected her and OM it would be because of how she would ignore OM compared to other men. For instance, in a group she would talk and flirt with all the men, make physical contact, while not touching or flirting with her OM. She would only touch and flirt with OM once they were behind closed doors. So she did not snuggle and lean into him during their flights, but once at the hotel behind closed doors they would have sex and she would lean against him as they feel asleep. The image of her leaning against him as she falls asleep has always hurt more than any of the descriptions of the sexual couplings. There is progress though. I can touch this memory or image and feel the hurt, and then put it back on the shelf, take a swallow of coffee and move on.
We talked about some of the other aspects of how we interact. FWW says that she is still very codependent on my feelings. She recognizes this for what it is, but still feels depressed if she thinks I am unhappy. I am not sure I can help her with this, but I did try to "give her permission" to feel OK if I am having a bad time.
..reminds you that life is forever changing, forever springing anew....
as it can be for all of us....now if i could just break out of the cocoon i am seemingly surrounding myself with...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:53 AM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:54 AM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
laura: i saw a bit of what was going on down there on the web....its scary stuff....i am not a news person, only watch when its something really big and even then i limit what i watch...anyways....i had no clue.....my prayers will continue...
allgood: i am working on the plan...need to get it right though before i present it to him...am thinking of using a solid plan as a possible post nup....i am hoping he will do the right thing and do it....but we all know that he doesn't always do right, more often then not, doing right is the opposite of who he is...
ats: memories and triggers...are funny things you know...as our perceptions of things change so do our memories...the facts that we know remain unchanged...but the perceptions is where one has the power....use the power to percieve in a way to heal....you deserve to heal....and i love that you are sharing all of your triggers with your wife and she is stepping up....
i think i am done now.... ....
eta: and thanks all for the support on my battle against rude!!!
they said goodbye this am...guess they don't want to walk...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:03 AM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
I can touch this memory or image and feel the hurt, and then put it back on the shelf, take a swallow of coffee and move on.
I’m in the slump. MOW’s DD has changed her facebook to private, so I can’t see anything. I wonder if she’s been asked if she wanted to “friend” me cos I’ve been lurking on her page every other day since I knew she was in the UK for Christmas. I got some pics of MOW (looking sad, older and not smiling) and suchlike. Well, I guess I can stop the once a month check on them all now. Maybe it’s for the best, but it doesn’t feel like it right now.
To boot, FWH is away for the week. He’s texted that he’s driving through a town about 40 miles away on his way from one airport to another. I’d rather he had found a way to do the trip without coming back to the UK. He could – but his car would be at the wrong airport!
My Dad’s still very poorly and making slow progress. I worry with them being so far away, but grateful they have such good friends and neighbours. They live in a very small community and they are highly regarded with all they have done and still do. If there’s a grant or fund to be had, my Dad could find it!
I’m feeling like I could beat the stuffing out of a punch bag right now or stand outside and scream my lungs out. I hate that I feel so insecure and lacking in confidence. I went to the sales today, picked up quite a few things but then talked myself out of buying anything much. I hate the cold and hate wearing layers and sweaters and stuff. Everything looked like it was something MOW would wear. So I came out with a pair of cheap skinny jeans and a denim pencil skirt. And 6 bottles of wine.
So forgive me my little pity party. I've nothing to complain about - not when I read about the floods and the shootings and injustice in the world. >sigh< I’d better go and get going on some dinner for me and DS.
they said goodbye this am...guess they don't want to walk...
Nell – Have a lovely, lovely day.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:19 PM, January 11th (Tuesday)]
you know dear heart you too need to take your life back...you have given so much of it away at this point.....let the mow go, just as hopefully your ws has...let her go, let them all go....
and yes i know so much easier said then done says the one who checks up on the ow's that she can on a regular basis....
Well, I guess I can stop the once a month check on them all now. Maybe it’s for the best,
It is for the best. My little crash & burn via OW's facebook page obviously resulted in her "unfriending" me. Best thing that ever happened to me. I do remember having such stress trying to get access to her page, but once I got it, it really proved to be a source of obsesssion and torture for me - to see how she's moved on (or not - depending on my interpretation of her status updates), to see pics of her, etc.
I'm better off without it and so are you.
As for the boobs talk, FWW liked Big Boobs apparently, judging from her OM
Nell: Hope u r ok....