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Just Found Out Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS
lordhasaplan?
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Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtforfam,

can you give me any examples of what Consequences might be? It has only been a week since d day and at this point, everything on my list would be a deal breaker at this point.

First thing I want to say is I am very sorry. I have not been out lately because just reading the Just found out side is really bringing a lot of pain back as I approach the time of year my wife was heavy into her affair last year. I remember the pain of the first minute, day, week, months. At this stage your still in shock and really should be fixated on the deal breakers at this point. You need to make sure you stake walls around what is acceptable and not with your spouse. In the early days getting the consequences firm on even those was tough. For instance I had hard deal breakers.
• No contact with OP at all. Any attempts at contact by OP are to be brought to my attention instantly and you are not to read anything that was sent by him, or answer phone if it is him. No conversation at all is to take place between the two of you.
• Another affair and I am done
• Any lies about any relationships with others I am done
• Transparency at all times, If I find out your hiding information, I’m out.
• We don’t stop counseling without mutual agreement, if you stop without agreement, I am out.

However things like :
• Meeting each others emotional needs. Always have the conversation when they are not being met.
• Contact about comings and goings at all times.
• Do one thing special for each other a month, Give rather than take!
• Don’t avoid conflict, engage in honest communication around conflict areas
• Give me all the whys and how’s of the affair?
• Deal with your FOO issues through counseling and communicating what your learning about them

These are things that take time and work, they will fail to do these. If your emotional need is not met one time do you want to leave? If they avoid an argument for a few weeks then you find out, is it time to leave. Finding the whys and how’s is a long arduous task for a wayward. They should be communicating them as they go and if they change how they see them. The consequences may be more counseling, joint exploration of the issue and a mutually arrived solution. But the expectation should be clearly stated and the consequences articulated.
I hope this helps, I hope it makes sense. Please start with deal breakers and behaviors that you know we’re/are issues that lead to the affair. You can work to the harder ones and the consequences of those violations later. But most of all, I wish I could give you a hug! this shit sucks.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, February 21st (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very good thread.

I know that after my d-days my first boundary was NC. My ex preety much refused to go NC with his OW and later (after he left) I found out that he actually had multiple ow who he was maintaining contact with.

I don't think that many WSs are able to break off contact imediately and stick with it. As difficult and deal breaking as it is the affair is often an addiction so some WSs do need help establishing and maintaining NC. Having said that if they had NC for a while and then go back on it then that would need to be accounted for as well.

I know for me setting boundaries and refusing to back down did end in a divorce. But I am very glad I took the stand and enforced my consequences. Had I not he likely would still be trying to play headgames with me. My ex still regards my boundaries as threats so some people never really get it.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, February 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
bufffalo
♂ Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, March 5th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5819 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
hurts_alot
♂ New Member
Member # 31375
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, March 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm in move forward and take care of myself mode, so making a few posts this morning.

I looked at the example of Boundaries and Consequences below, and have a couple of questions.

1. The Consequence to most of these is "I'm out, marriage ended", and that seems a bit too black and white, so I'm interested to hear more about that. Now I completely agree with the principle of another affair or continuous contact with the OM and you are out, but some of the others I'm not quite there yet that I would automatically end the marriage, especially since the first month or so I hear that one-time lapses with the NC are somewhat common. Maybe I'm just being a wimp here and trying to hold on.

2. Are there any good mental exercises to use to determine what Boundaries and Consequences you need? Anyone else have some additional examples?

Thanks for the help!

• No contact with OP at all. Any attempts at contact by OP are to be brought to my attention instantly and you are not to read anything that was sent by him, or answer phone if it is him. No conversation at all is to take place between the two of you.
• Another affair and I am done
• Any lies about any relationships with others I am done
• Transparency at all times, If I find out your hiding information, I’m out.
• We don’t stop counseling without mutual agreement, if you stop without agreement, I am out.

However things like :
• Meeting each others emotional needs. Always have the conversation when they are not being met.
• Contact about comings and goings at all times.
• Do one thing special for each other a month, Give rather than take!
• Don’t avoid conflict, engage in honest communication around conflict areas
• Give me all the whys and how’s of the affair?
• Deal with your FOO issues through counseling and communicating what your learning about them

[This message edited by hurts_alot at 9:30 AM, March 6th (Sunday)]


Me - BS - 36
Her - WW - 34
Married 12 yrs.
3 kids - 9, 6, and 3
Dday - 2/26/2011
Divorcing/Separated

Posts: 35 | Registered: Mar 2011
Taurusinpain
♀ Member
Member # 30284
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, March 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GREAT post!!!

I'll give some examples on my boundaries. I actually gave H a 3 page letter detailing boundaries/consequences. It was so sad I had to do this but I was very specific in it so as he could not find loopholes. Most of my boundaries are about secrety email accounts, chat, texts, driving near OW, stuff like that. If he cheats again I'm gone, done deal.

Consequences:
Move to the other bedroom.

No more doing laundry, helping make lunch, going to the grocery store, etc.

No more volunteering info about my goings and comings.

Communication stops until he can talk like an adult without being defensive.


BW - 38
FWH - 41, SA since around 2005
Dday 4/9/10
Months and months of TT torture.
DD born 3/1/13
In R? Feels like going witht the flow.
Trying to get used to the new "normal"

Posts: 396 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: The worst place I can be - inside my own brain
Merlin
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Member # 30221
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, March 6th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like 'lied2', my setting of boundaries and consequences ended in divorce. I confronted (now) XW with undeniable evidence early the morning after I returned from a vacation with our children. PI's had it all, including the 4-days of them playing house in our home while I was away with the kids. This all had been going on for some months at least.

I asked her to give up OM and work on the marriage. Her simple response "Sorry, I can't do that right now". Later that day, I filed for divorce as I told her I would. That night, she went out with OM to their usual sex, country line dancing, drinking weekly event, this time staying out all night (not much different from the routine 3 AM anyway). She moved out six weeks later.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I handled in less abruptly. XW' s mother said that if I could have waited, perhaps XW 'would have come to her senses'.

Any thoughts on the timing of confrontation, the announcement of boundaries and consequences and the strictness of them?


"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D. H. Lawrence

Her: WW/57 Me: BS/63 24yrs M
3 great kids, now 22, 20, 17 b,b,g
D-Day 8/14/08, D 1/13/11


Posts: 1164 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: East Coast
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, March 7th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry , I have been out of pocket for a few days. I love this thread because it really allows one to focus on self.
hurts_alot
1. The Consequence to most of these is "I'm out, marriage ended", and that seems a bit too black and white, so I'm interested to hear more about that. Now I completely agree with the principle of another affair or continuous contact with the OM and you are out, but some of the others I'm not quite there yet that I would automatically end the marriage, especially since the first month or so I hear that one-time lapses with the NC are somewhat common. Maybe I'm just being a wimp here and trying to hold on.

You’re not a wimp, everyone has different boundaries and consequences, the point is are they protecting you, are they speaking to your values, are they shaping the way you allow people to treat you , do they allow you to be treated in a fair and equitable manner. You are not a doormat! And not that everything has to be a deal breaker to assure you’re not being treated that way, I used the easy examples. They key is How do you want to shape how you allow yourself to be treated by your spouse, or anyone for that matter. They are YOUR boundaries and consequences, I think Taurusinspain gives some other examples of consequences; some can be beefed up IC, or MC, or reading and researching a particular developmental issue and discussing what’s being learned. The point is to look inward, to speak to your value and demand to be treated with respect and dignity.
Merlin has a point here. And it is something I posted in my original post.
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I handled in less abruptly. XW' s mother said that if I could have waited, perhaps XW 'would have come to her senses'.

Make sure your honest to your situation, if you’re really not sure if it’s a deal breaker don’t make it such, and you can always renegotiate these at anytime. If a boundary isn’t working for you and needs to be revisited, do that. I see from the board Thundersdad is struggling with that right now, many of us have. I call it fighting the deal breaker in our head. Point is when you fight it are you honest to how you want to be treated going forward? People will treat you as you demand to be treated or you remove yourself from the situations in which they treat you that way.
May we all find peace and grace through this process, but keep demanding we are worthwhile and deserve better than the way our spouses have treated us in the past.
LHAP

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 2:48 PM, March 7th (Monday)]


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, March 15th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump for SadCat22


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
Rise_Above
♀ Member
Member # 23674
Default  Posted: 10:22 AM, March 19th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

volley


You can live the way you believe this is your opportunity to let your life be one that lights the way~F.Battistelli

*****
God's hand was an avocado branch


Posts: 14226 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Chrys a lis
bufffalo
♂ Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 8:29 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5819 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
Nosay33
♀ Member
Member # 31626
Default  Posted: 8:56 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read this and I like what you are saying, but it seems this is only good if your WS is remorseful and willing to give up the affair? Mine wants to continue living together until OW gets a job, tells her husband and WS wants me to act the same as always. I have told him I cannot kiss him or hug him anymore as long as he continues to betray me but he keeps trying to buy me desserts and ask how I am, etc. How do I set boundaries or convey consequences here--or does it even matter? I do wish to try to save my marriage.


NoSay33 BS now/WS 14 yrs ago
dday 3-21-11
Married 22 yrs, 27 together
Kicked him out 4-11
Trickle Truth 5-4-11--Found out my WH has been having sexual affairs, sexting strangers for 16+ years and has had 2.5 year long sexual affairs with 1 woman

Posts: 190 | Registered: Mar 2011
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, March 28th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nosay33,
First let me give you a hug and tell you, I wish you weren’t here. Sounds like you have a cake eater and you’re just starting on this incredibly hard process of dealing with infidelity and in the first three months or so I could not get my wits about me. But to answer to your question, when you don’t have a remorseful WS is when its most important to articulate and demonstrate your boundaries. Its time to state loud and clear who you are and what you will tolerate. They of all people need to know that we have boundaries that they are violating and the consequences of those boundary violations. It’s about protecting YOU and making the statement that you won’t be codependent to their bad decisions anymore. Let me ask you a question. What are the ways that he is treating you that you feel are unacceptable? These are things that need to be clearly articulated boundaries, Let your WS know what are your expectations’ of how you will be treated? List the boundary violations that have occurred and that you realize these violations as serious. Think about how you want to be treated and put consequences in place. Is he NC? If not tell him your boundary, write it out. “ I feel like it is unhealthy for me to be in a relationship with a man who is sleeping and fraternizing with other women. If you do continue to do this I will pack your bags and you can move out while I file for divorce.” Then follow through. (this is a hypothetical example, not a recommendation for everyone per se)
Mine wants to continue living together until OW gets a job, tells her husband and WS wants me to act the same as always.

Again, if you don’t want to be treated this way tell him he has crossed your boundaries. Tell him I will not share a home with a man who is seeing another woman. Tell him he has one day to send her a NC letter and if you feel at anytime he violates this boundary again, you will (insert consequence here). Your consequence of
“I have told him I cannot kiss him or hug him anymore as long as he continues to betray me”
is not much of a consequence when he is getting his physical needs met elsewhere, what consequence can you levy that will be met and understood as potentially impacting him. That’s the beauty of the cake eaters, they are keeping us around for a reason, what is it? Incorporate those things into the consequences. Hit them where they need you. Remove yourself from their toxic situation; demand that you be treated with respect.
Have you outed the affair to the OW betrayed spouse? If not you must start there as well. I hope I have helped. Boundries are about YOU, not your WS. Draw boundaries about what is acceptable for how YOU will be treated, you have no control over what he does, but you can protect yourself and that is what the boundaries are for, YOU!
((Nosay33))


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, March 31st (Thursday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump for lonelymess


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
bufffalo
♂ Member
Member # 21854
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, April 2nd (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


DDay 9/25/2008
R started 11/10/08
BH-me

Posts: 5819 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Texas
moonshine
♀ New Member
Member # 31686
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, April 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's now 10 days since D'day and although I have communicated most boundaries, I have not communicated consequences as such. Of course my WH knows that another affair is a clear deal breaker. Any attempt from his side to contact the OW is also a deal breaker. I have asked for complete transparency in all issues and even that he explain to his sister why she is not welcome in our home any longer as she acted pretty much like an 'enemy' of the marriage by advising him to go ahead with his A.

But I'm not sure how to deal with one thing, I have just read an email form his boss to his entire team asking for a business trip tentatively in the week commencing 21st April in another city.

I know that the A he was having was completely on phone, net and skype but they were planning to meet up in this very same city in that week.

She of course claimed later that her trip was cancelled and she would not see him at all but continued calling him and his best friend to establish contact. I dont know if she is planning to go there or not...

He told me that he would not be going to meet her any longer (has in fact sent the NC letter and deleted her phone number etc.)

I know the request is official but I cannot trust him to go to that city when it's very likely that she will also be there. I dont know if this will be a deal breaker but I'm scared that they will meet for sure and possibly take their A to a physical level.

He's been remorseful and doing all the right things but it's so soon and the timing is coinciding with their original plan of rendezvous... what do I do??

I cannot agree to it, maybe he will refuse to stay back and miss a career opportunity - is it irrational for me to expect that he should skip this tour?

I will most likely be traveling abroad on work at that time... and I know I'll die a million times to know he was in that city, without any strings attached, and she'd probably be there too...


"Sometimes you have to stand alone to prove that you can still stand."

Me, BS, 32 pregnant with first baby
WH - 32


Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2011
wifeno2
♀ Member
Member # 31529
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, April 5th (Tuesday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So seemingly simple. So hard for some to follow.


Me-BW (45)
Him-WS (42)
DS 19 (prior relationship)
DS-8
DDay #1- 10/22/2010 EA/PA with MOW coworker
Dday#2:11/17/2010 beginning secret emails with potential OW#2
DDay #3 11/22/2010 still seeing OW#1
Too many DD's to count: Now up to OW #6.

Posts: 696 | Registered: Mar 2011 | From: the south
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, April 8th (Friday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bump for stronger than he


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, April 18th (Monday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, April 30th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((4kidscheatinghub)))


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1889 | Registered: Nov 2010
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