It can really get nasty & I think the judges try to do right, but have so many cases they maybe give in to the woman most the time, thinking they are generally the major caregiver of children.
There is no requirement on books in our state to recalc every 3 years, but we were verbally told by lawyer that if either incomes or family situations change (births of other kids for fWH or OW), that they do cause reevaluation of CS. EVEN if OW gets pregnant this year (like she's wanting to), it will make fWH %responsibility for OC's financial needs to go up (because OW's share of OC's costs would be a smaller %).
I very much understand how you feel, I don't think I would have R'd with my FWH if I had known there was an OC on the way (sOW did not tell us until she was 16 weeks along, and we were in MC and IC at that point, and R was going well).
I really felt like staying with him was so beneath me, like "Gawd, they are going to look at me and laugh that I am staying with him, I am SO MUCH BETTER THAN HIM, I need to just walk away..." But then OW began harassing me, (and to some tiny extent him), laughing, predicting that I was going to leave him, telling him how she couldn't wait for me to leave him, etc. I really couldn't give her the satisfaction, and I knew that I loved him, and wanted to stay with him.
Everyone of us will understand 100% if you walk away. I think I can speak for everyone of us when I say it at least crossed our minds at one point or another.
But, if you choose to stay, it does get a little easier. It never goes away, but it gets easier. I remember when I was at your stage in this, the few mornings when I wasn't awoken by nightmares about OW and impending/newborn OC, I would wake up and be gripped by the most intense panic attacks of my entire life remembering that some slut was pregnant by/had just had my FWH's child.
I am nearing the 4th antiversary of DDay1 (finding out about the A, and throwing him out) zand I literally think of them less and less (we are NC). I don't think of OC when I look at my DD (they are 14 months apart). I don't think of her all day on holidays, or on trips to the zoo, etc. I feel closer and closer to acceptance everyday.
I seriously want to slap the living shit out of some people in your honor. I want to cuss up an effing storm, what is happening to you is BULLSHIT!
Well, I am now 100% sure FWH's CS caseworker has it out for him (in this state, everything goes through a caseworker, a judge never hears about CS unless you go to appeals court). Last year, after FWH's income dropped significantly (33%+) and we had our own DD, he had his CS reevaluated- his caseworker almost doubled it, and decided that he needed to pay for insurance and daycare for OC (sOW gets free medical through her job, and free daycare from her new babydaddy - now that said babydaddy left HIS BS). That would have left FWH bringing home around $300 every two weeks.
So, he had an over the phone hearing with OW and a judge. sOW could not prove daycare, so the judge ruled that she pay 100% of daycare, medical, and gets a whopping $179 a month CS- a FRACTION of what the caseworker had ordered.
Well, CS caseworker called this week to let FWH she is taking it upon herself to reevaluate the CS order (normally, you can only request to have it evaluated every 3 years). I am so pissed!! I don't know who this bitch thinks she is. I've had to speak with her myself and she is just a bitch.
So, we'll probably be appealing the amount she finds AGAIN, since she evidently does not bother using the state CS calculations sheet. I am wondering if FWH should call her supervisor and file a complaint, or if that will just make it worse?
I would have FWH request a new caseworker altogether, but they have some rule that when you get a new caseworker, they automatically redo all of your cases anyway (FWH pays CS for OC, and his 18 year old from his previous M), so I just don't know what to do. We are on a totally limited budget (I just started college and am unemployed) and I certainly don't need this stress right now.
I'm wondering if CS will take sOW's new OC into account, as a non-joint child, the way they took our DD into account (born after OC)?? I hope not.
She is a one woman puppy mill for OCs, I swear. Destroying relationships is her past time.
Whether you R or not, anyone dealing w/OC issues is always welcome on this thread. Even if you D, you still are dealing w/the pain of OC (especially if you have COM that must be involved w/OC or OW at any point).
Having OC in picture is like marrying a divorced person that has COM from previous marriage, but in reverse. Normally, you go into M w/previously married person knowing they have COM & you will be stepparent, they'll be paying CS for almost 18 years, that xW will be in picture for some amount of time. Okay, you weigh the good & bad & marry him anyway....In our cases, you are blindsided by the A, by the OC situation, by the CS, by the visitation, & by all the embarrassment the whole situation brings. As without OC can be hidden from all, swept under the rug, only discussed in private, etc. As w/OC can sometimes be hidden, but if any C is made, someone eventually knows about OC. I think some people pity us for living in this situation & dealing w/OC, some people believe us to be saints/heroes for staying, & some look at us like fools for staying. I guess everyone has to make their own choices as to whether staying is worth it...is fWH giving his 100% to try to R & be NC w/OW as much as possible or are they 'just friends' now? I know they say to wait 6 months b4 making decisions, but I don't think with everything going on (maybe even HB happening) that you can just put your life on hold for 6 months. In the back of your head, you know you are leaning one way or another. If you really put forth effort @R, OC's birth might eventually railroad any progress. Life still keeps happening, all while you are on the rollercoaster you can never get off. Even if you D, I think it takes even longer to get over the A because you see OC as a big multiplier to the pain you have to overcome. How could you ever trust another person to be in your life, when one you loved unconditionally could do this to you? So much baggage comes along w/this stuff, are you even a suitable partner for anyone else in the future?
I'm just sending hugs out to everyone. ((((hug)))
When OC10/DS11 were very small, they were similar in sizes (13 months apart)....some people @stores would see us out (very seldome went out as-family due to fWH's work schedule), but they'd think OC/DS were twins. If someone stopped to see the 'twins,' fWH would correct them that they were 13months apart, but never that OC wasn't mine.
Unless I tell someone, most people think OC is mine (like @church & such) because OC calls me Momma & I usually call her Sis.
How did I handle birth? I was in deep depression. I was so anxious because I didn't really know when OC was coming, so I got up the courage & called OW. Asked her when the baby was due, because fWH didn't know. She told me due date (OC ended up being 10 days early), OC was girl, and what her first name was going to be. I was very emotional, fWH had a pager so I paged him somehing like "your daughter XXXXX is due on Jan 20th." OW called fWH too, 'cause it upset her. I kinda got scolded because I was upsetting the preggers OW. Funny, she transferred to different branch of restaurant shortly after that (not sure if me knowing where she worked & could call her bothered her, or she just did it). I had called the pizza chain's #, instead of trying to figure out her cell#.
I honestly couldn't handle it anymore. I was losing my mind & wellbeing. I had to seek OC for myself & COM. I didn't want to admit it, but I believe I was likely suicidal also. Of course, I didn't tell IC that, 'cause I think they have to report you in our state if you are danger to yourself or others. I was so glad I went to IC, because with OC coming early, it did give me only a week or so until the birth.
If fWH had been invited to the birth & went in the room to be w/OW, I think I might have gotten so depressed that I had nervous breakdown. I was very lucky that OW was so pissed @fWH around that time, that she didn't even call until she got home from hospital. It made things easier for me to know fWH wasn't there supporting OW or holding OC right after birth, like he had been w/COM.
fWH walked on eggshells around me, until OC was born & DNA came back. The kindness was basically an act though, just to make me R instead of D. I had gone for free consult w/best lawyer in county & fWH's coworker's wife unfortunately worked there & word got back to him. I don't know if he'd have been so nice, if he wasn't a little afraid of D.
Some days, I just wonder if I should go ahead & D him. Lots of triggers sometimes, give me the little thoughts like maybe it was a mistake to stay. I am glad that COM have grown up being w/their father daily though. I wish they did not have to deal with all the fallout of D-days & OC issues. I am not as-good a parent as I was before all the As. I am more depressed & moody, I neglect things they should be getting from me to care for OC, & my general behavior isn't so polite. I'm just not the naive 17-yr-old that fWH deflowered, & not the blushing 21-yr-old bride, or the joyful new mommy I once was. I cannot seem to get me back. Things I do & say, are things I would never have thought I'd do in a million years. Some days, I feel downright evil. I wish DS11 had the mother that DS14 did...I just wasn't the same person anymore, after fWH's A#1 & most of DS11's first year, after I found out about OC's impending birth. It was very difficult to celebrate DS11's first b-day, knowing OC's birth was right around the corner looming over any joy I could have from COM. I know I don't really HATE fWH, but I sometimes HATE him for putting me through this....and knowing now that it wasn't an accident on his part, made the new revelations & trickle truths so much harder to take. Who could hate me so much, as to choose to conceive a child w/someone else.
Lots of movies & such about infidelity lately...think we're watching scary movie or something, & stupid infidelity is part of the plot!!! Ugh! fWH's comments about the movies, just trigger me. Do we stop the movies, the minute an OW or OM is mentioned (or GOD forbid a movie w/OC in it)???
[This message edited by repeatBS326 at 10:47 AM, March 11th (Friday)]
No. I don't mind talking about it. I rant & rave on here sometimes when I have triggers anyway.
And, don't think you are a quitter, if staying isn't an option for you. I stayed after A#1 & A#2/OC, and I always wonder if the pain of D would've been easier to deal with than dealing w/A#3 & revelations about OC's conception & A#2 not being ONS but EA/PA#2.
Things are not always bad for me. We have a lot of other issues pre-As that keep creeping back into our lives.
I felt the issues in our M were overwhelming pre-A#1 & pre-A#3, but I hoped we would overcome them. I was so caught up in being a mommy for 2nd time, I never saw A#2 coming (and certainly couldn't have expected planned OC - even when OW said something like 'we'd been trying for a while', I didn't believe her). I guess, I blindly trusted fWH with my heart & honestly haven't been so giving of my love since A#1. I don't think any of this can be undone, even though the panic attacks & chest-heaving crying has subsided. I wouldn't have been able to afford IC, except fWH's job had EAP at time & I think there were 6-10 freebies of IC annually before you ran out & had to switch to health benefits. I was only able to go to about 2 after I had to pay $40/visit under health plan. But, IC did help me through the rough spots & ADs helped me through the antiversary of OC's birth the following year.
I just needed someone to listen, I think. Everyone around me was tired of listening to me cry & whine about OW/OC & fWH's betrayal. IC was that shoulder to lean on. Heck, when it first happened, I called a psychic hotline & even snotted/snorted @$XX/minute just to have someone to listen. Wonder what that person thought??? I even stupidly wished she was actually psychic so she could tell me everything would turn out right. I probably should've been hospitalized for severe depression, but I put on a happy face @work (as much as possible because I shared office space @time w/another person). I tried to do things for my kids, but I really only took care of the necessities. I wasn't the wife or mother that I should've been because I was nursing my broken heart. fWH was the only person besides my brother who had always been there, never let me down. The disappointment in fWH & his actions (especially after giving him a 2nd chance after A#1 w/OW), truly are what broke my heart.
I think this is a healing process & if any of us can help others along, then maybe that's what we're here for.
And, I agree w/you about loving fWH when you brain tells you that you shouldn't. I have loved fWH since 1989 & he's been with me all my adult years. He's held my hand through 2 c-sections. He takes better care of me than he did before (I guess because he's SAHD & sometimes feels like doing chores & other stuff so I don't have to). Even making sure my name was on the deed when ILs gave us some of their acres made me feel more secure than I had before. I always felt I could be evicted @a moments notice if things didn't work out for us & I had nowhere to go or take my children, because the land was IL's & only the double-wide mobile home was mortgaged in our joint names.
I guess, many days, the insecurity of the whole thing hits me. Since OW still loves fWH (and likely vice-versa), I always have this feeling like she's looking over my shoulder to see if our M is vulnerable again & she's waiting to make a strike like a cobra.
I think I could almost deal with $$$ issues, if I knew the likelyhood of repeat A wasn't there & the harassment by OW toward me after A#3 was inexcusable & unjust. I don't see what these OW think they have the right to do....just because they got knocked up by fWH. If they wanted to leave, they'd have done it, right???? What keeps these men clinging to their wife & COM, when only weeks/months before they were in the fog w/OW? I truly don't think my fWH broke completely through the fog, even when OC was born. I think he was still holding OW on a pedestal (as I'd fallen from mine many-many years before). What I think is one of the worst, is when two Ms & two families of COM are impacted (if both OW & fWH are married & not even S from their spouses @all on D-day). IN these cases, I almost think it might be easier for everyone concerned to allow fWH to give up rights & BH to adopt OC before anyone knows any different (or even WH to take custody upon birth & BW to adopt OC). I think if OW had given up on fWH after he didn't choose to leave me, and given fWH custody of OC & went NC and let me adopt OC, it would've been a little easier. She wasn't prepared to be a mother & hasn't been for her own COM until seeming to amend her ways a bit lately. I do believe OW truly loves fWH & maybe he feels the same for her, but somehow he loves me too. I think his feelings for me come & go like the tide however. His love for me isn't unconditional, it grows & declines/grows&declines. If I had been the one having A, and he had a vasectomy and I got pregnant by OM, I think if he hadn't killed me & OM, he'd have certainly D me & tried his best to get full custody of COM (claiming me unfit).
Someone on SI once wrote a letter to their spouse, with the jist of the letter being what it had been me instead of you who did XYZ w/OP? And laid out all the wrongdoings as if they had been the other spouse betrayed. I thought it poetic & enlightening. Doubtfully, would our WS have been able to tolerate being the BS & helping to raise (or just pay for) OC. When we were paying CS to OW, I calculated what OC was costing our family (not even the cost of diapers/formula etc. we spent @our home). The 18 years of CS are likely more $$$ than we'd have ever spent on COM's care & certainly kept us from having a nice new home.
What dreams have you guys had to give up, that you might have realized if the CS $$$$ wasn't going out????
What do any of the older children think about OC & how it's impacted their home & finances?
On a brighter note, my fwh met with a lawyer today. Now the lawyer was about 100 years old, but the man was highly intelligent. I mean, he has been practicing family law longer than I have been alive! It was a free consultation and he revised my fwh's opposition statement for FREE! And did a kick ass job. So fwh is going to submit it on Monday. Turns out that this will almost certainly get denied!!! Why?!? She waited too long! The CS order was 12/30/10, and she had 10 days to file a motion, 30 days to file an appeal! She submitted the motion the way it's NOT supposed to be submitted--in other words she is trying to "take another bite of the apple" in asking for the original order be amended, which is not what the motion is supposed to be used for (it's supposed to be for math errors and the like). So it appears she has missed out Not to mention, she opened up a can of worms in regards to her saying that she couldn't meet OC's basic survival needs. She pretty much put it out there where the money can be questioned. And the lawyer said that the bonus income fluctuates too much to do an average, and that my fwh will always be overpaying or underpaying and would need a review 2X a year in order to be fair. AND did the math to show that she is still getting quite a bit of it, even if it were to be rolled into income it's just a matter of a couple hundred dollars a year. So chances are the bonus $ will be left the same. Said this judge does NOT like to be questioned, so most likely her motion will just piss him off. AND she shouldn't have EVER mentioned my income. AND my daughter counts before the OC, since paternity was established AFTER she was born Oh and since the OW didn't request a hearing, and she didn't provide documentation how she is not being able to make her bills (but my fwh WILL show documentation that she is living out of her means), she didn't prove her case. Which, BTW...is null and void since she didn't follow the procedures of the court and filed too late!!! PLEASE keep your fingers crossed that this gets denied on the fact cOW was too late! We read the state code/statute that pretty much puts a nail in her request.
Of course I'm not going to be 100% comfortable until we see the "DENIAL"...so hoping that all will go well in our favor for ONCE....
I know in CS the spouse's income is usually not calculated in (because the child is not their financial burden) but will it reflect on fOW badly for trying to pull your income into the equation?
fWH was grumpy last night. I was wanting to talk to him about educational decisions that need to be considered for next school year for DS14 & DS11 and the expenses involved in different choices. He said something rude like, "I feel like you are making me stressed. My stomach is turning & I'm getting a headache. I just want quiet." So I pouted & went to bed (he was in shower while we were talking). Then, this is around midnight, he opens the adjoining br/bath door and starts talking all about past things that happened btwn him & his xGF & all sorts of other crap until well after 2AM (I have to get up btwn 5&6am for work). One of the things he mentioned was he never should have been w/OW. Was kinda trashing her. Was sorry about OC, BUT he loves OC. Said he should have had a daughter w/me instead. Hmmm. Kinda difficult since we as a couple/family decided to get me 'fixed' during my C-section for DS11 because we felt 2 kids were the greatest expense we could afford & the house space was too limited. I liked the "I'm sorry" about it, but the BUT negates the whole thing in my opinion. Yes, I know he loves his child, but mentioning that after a heartfelt apology wasn't good. What we were talking about was our fights, that he's never HIT me like his dad was abusive to his mom. I told him "I've never hit you either." Some of his xGF were physical & would smack & scratch when angry w/him. I reminded him he punched a big dent in the hood vent over the range when we were arguing. I reminded him the arguement was about OW (seems like I was convinced OW still loved him & he was steaming about how they were 'just friends' and in all honestly I was giving him a hard time because there wasn't any PA going on @time or for many years later, but there was likely always EA).
Anyway. I don't know what this means, but I suppose I got my apology again. It never feels like enough though. I just keep praying for him that someday he can honestly tell me 'I was so wrong, you didn't deserve anything I did, you are the one person who's loved me unconditionally and I respect you for that.' Think I'll ever hear that from him??? Who knows.... I still think no matter what OW does concerning OC, fWH will hold a place for her in his heart. I believe if I had D him after any of the 3xAs (or I'd have found out about the ONS pre-3xAs when it happened or the BJ that SIL gave him well before As w/OW), he would be M to OW this very minute. I don't think fWH's love for me is as strong as the feelings I've always had for him. I don't know if he CAN love someone through thick/thin. I honestly doubt HE could have stayed w/me through so much, if I had been the offender & brought home OC. If he had vasectomy & I ended up preggers after cheating...I never would have received so much compassion or love from him (as he has since everything happened about all the infidelity). Heck, even the insanity over my online addictions pre-M, never received forgiveness, COULD you imagine what an OC from me would have brought?
[This message edited by repeatBS326 at 6:57 AM, March 15th (Tuesday)]
We did family day Sunday. Me, DS14, & OC10 went to kids' church & then sermon, popped back by house & got fWH/DS11 for earlybird 3D version of Mars Needs Moms, then got takeout and lounged around the whole afternoon. It was nice. I have missed our Thurs family dinners out & hope to be able to do things like inexpensive dinners each week. It makes me feel like we are still a family & also relieves stress of being home, cooking, cleaning, & kid fights. It gives me some peace each week, when I can forget (if just for 1-2 hours), that there are big problems that face us every day & little problems that sneak in too.