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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, December 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle-
The only thing that I could suggest would be to detach and distance yourself from him. Do your own thing as much as possible. Stay busy with the kids, your own friends, etc.
You have decided to stay in the marriage for the kids .
He is trying to push for more and may think he is bonding with you by imitating you.I can see how annoying that could become.

I know that it is possible to live parallel lives within a marriage. I did that. I decided to stay married to an alcoholic and the way that I did it was to detach and stop trying to save him from himself.
That plan didn't work out too well for me and my husband!
But, in your case it may be the way to deal with your situation until the kids are older and on their own.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell… The computer event…
I can't pretend everything is okay when it's not.
If you make a choice to start loving why is that pretending? Nell, trust is a decision. Your H does not understand, he cannot comprehend, he does not get why, it is not sinking in… You still don’t feel safe. He gets frustrated. My W thought it was never going to end. I too have been in the exact same situation as your computer check and funny all the same reactions when exposed and discussed. Exactly! I finally made a decision to just trust. It is not pretending.

Pretending would be checking, hiring an investigator, tracking, secretly listening, while at the same time you saying to your H, it’s ok to not to share your email passwords, you don’t need to check in with me, you go ahead and have lunch with some good looking girls…

Nell, I am here to tell you, no matter how well you make your M from today and beyond, there is going to be those feelings of fear, anxiety, doubt, and uncertainty. Having those feelings are not the same as trusting. They are feelings. You have experienced a fact of life, People are not always loyal and loving… This is part of living life. You are going to have feelings both good and bad in life. It is OK to have these feelings. How you react to these feelings is within your own power. It takes some brain strength.

In order for you to move forward in you R, you need to achieve something. This is all on you. You need develop and make the decision, have a deep sense of trust. Healthy marriages have a deep sense of trust. You need to make a decision to have this. It starts with making the choice to give you H trust again.

We may not discuss it; I will not ask again.
I believe you are wrong in this case… You now have a very powerful chance to teach your H something. You can teach him how to help make you feel safe. It is OK to with telling him how you feel today. Leave the infidelity out of the conversation… that is the reason and he knows it… You need to change too. Why are you going to bury a problem again? Keeping your safe feeling problem secret… That is pretending!
If I felt like you today, here is what my W and I would do.. We would dialogue as taught by Retro.. today, she knows I am having problems when I write a Q. When she writes a Q, It gets my full attention. It means.. Listen! Do not judge, feelings are what they are, do everything possible to work on making feelings more positive…. So here goes….

Do I feel safe in our relationship?
Dear T,
Yes, I do feel mostly safe. My unsafe feeling might be a 2 of 10. If you have ever been walking back to your parked car at night, at closing time, and somebody is also walking not far behind you, those feelings you might have would equal mine. I have that feeling sometimes. Once I’m securely locked in my car, I feel Ok again. My unsafe feeling might be the time we got lost on that road in Detroit. It feels like that time when we saw all those burned out cars and scary people out at 2am walking around our car at the stop light. My feelings move up and down when it comes to safety in our relationship. At my worst times, If it were an animal, it might be a skunk, I am wanting to run to a safe distance so not to be sprayed.
love D

From that we then go to discussion… We make sure understand each other’s feelings. Mine would be up and down depending on what is going on.

Can you now discuss all the things that make you feel safe?
- When you call me just to touch base, It gives me warmth, safe.
- When you affirm me, it feels positive, safe.
- When you are open with me on this computer stuff I feel safe. I feel unsafe when at the same time I look, you showing me you are frustrated at me, I feel punished when you show me with anger not to look, because I don’t want you angry at me, not giving me a choice to see makes me feel unsafe.
- When you are with me, I feel safe.
- When your hard work pay for our home, our food, our insurance… I feel safe.

Nell, on December 5, 2010, you said the 180 is over. Then do it. It is totally up to him to work on himself. All you can do is make sure he knows what you need to feel safe. You can do this in a way you are not throwing infidelity in his face. Are you really communicating in a way he will “get it”? I’m not sure after reading you say, “I will not ask again”. You might as well D him now, so you can move on to a new partner you won’t be afraid of… or will you only move on to be faced with the same ole problem, afraid, again and again... What the heck do you really need to get happiness back in your soul?

Relationships are hard... Marriages are hard... Life is sometimes hard... Peace to you today... You can do this.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:20 AM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Iwant… It’s never to late to make a choice to give pfm a second chance. From what you describe to us, it seems to me, pfm is starting to get some happiness back.

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn,
Your post speaks to me. I'm printing it out. Thank you. How many times do you think you can tell me the same thing before your eyes roll so far into the back of your head that they get stuck there?


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow... Oh nell.. I can assure you, my eyes will never roll! NEVER..

Your family is worth saving... Happiness can enter your heart again. Your H made a mistake. He does not deserve a second chance. You are the beautiful person and the one with strength. Your ability to continue to be married to this man with the goal your life will be better is supremacy. How you handle this time in your life defines you...

I’ve seen picture and I am here to say, you are very, very attractive. On top of that, when I read your post I can tell you have this inner beauty too… This experience is going to make you one hell of wife and partner. To have the power to forgive, to accept this pain equal to the same feelings of death, rape, murder, or kidnapping. Hold your head high without fear and forge ahead. You just make sure you let him know everything you need to make sure you are in the best possible marriage possible. You make sure he knows everything you need! It may take several times, different ways, to communicate this to him.. To learn to do this in a way that is kind, reasonable is not easy and no single way is right… different methods work… That is all you can do. Sometimes, I will tell you that you both won’t agree. Compromise will be necessary.. feelings will come and go…

Should your H throw away his family, well that is his bad decision. He'll do it by making choices not to make you happy. If that should happen, you are an attractive, desirable, person ready to move on and find a partner to marry.. If that is what you want… heck you may even decide to just focus on your boys.. have a friend or two.. It will be OK.. you set your fate…

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:33 AM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: Thank you for your advice. I do have to overcome my fear. This whole year I have been so traumatized with false R and constantly being hurt and more hurt I was just trying to survive.
I think my fear stems from just being traumatized again KWIM? The self esteem is practically gone and the foundation is so shaky.

NJgal, thank you for your kind words. They really touched me very deeply.

Miracle, is pfm still going to IC? I agree with you, I don't think he's "copying" you to drive you crazy. It could be a number of things, and something as simple as he feels that is how he can get close to you: by trying to "share" the things you do. Perhaps someone said to him that you two should share more things or do more things together and this is pfm's interpretation of it? He is mirroring you because of his own void inside. He recognized you as a good person, a good role model and doesn't know how to "fix" himself.
If he's still seeing IC, is there a way you can make an appointment with his IC to tell the IC about this behavior? This would be an altruistic gesture to help pfm, not to complain about him. It could have the added benefit of him stopping the mirroring and perhaps communicate better with your kids.

The problem with Mr. Dishonest is that although I do write the horrible things he has said and done, in general when he is here, he is pleasant and ok company as long as OW and OC's are not mentioned. This is a farce, I know. Emotionally I have been suffering greatly.
Nell, this is the "pretending" that Tryn is talking about.
As long as it's superficial like this, smooth sailing, and again I get pulled in and start to get false hope then to be let down when reality smacks me in the face, again.

Mr. Dishonest shovelling snow? LOL, I almost got him to do it, but DS15 did it. WH knows that he has a heart condition and is afraid to do it. The best job for Mr. Dishonest is supervising, lol. Go out for bread? Sometimes I can get him to run out to the store for something.
M3 has nicknamed one of her children "the pasha". Mr. Dishonest is THE pasha. He acts like a pharoah and if we minions are "good" he may be benevolent with "favors" like his smile and good humor.

I'm sorry, feeling a little snarky. I had promised myself not to be sarcastic in general to everyone. But the problem is, I'm very good at it!!!

Laura, we're waiting to see the ducklings!!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: no, not happiness for pfm....and for second chances..he used them...and that does not change the fact that he is still an active liar.....still not transparent....still putting others before me.....that ship has sailed, i cannot go back to wanting different but need to deal with "what is" and it will become what i make it...


yes pfm is still in ic....


honest:

I'm sorry, feeling a little snarky. I had promised myself not to be sarcastic in general to everyone. But the problem is, I'm very good at it!!!

do not apologize for this, if anything would love to see lots more sarcasm regarding mr dishonest from you......


I get pulled in

at this point in time you are doing your own pulling....time for you to 180 in a really really big way, it will help you detach and not get pulled in.....speak to him only when absolutely necessary...find so many other things to do, including cleaning out closets....throwing away some skeletons....to make room for "life" again...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.

Thanks for the advice about grilling the spaghetti. Rotating the grill 90 drgrees should help. You are so smart. I tried to use this advice grilling pancakes this weekend, but no matter which way I rotated the grill, the batter kept falling through. Put out my fire and made a real mess in my grill.

Allgood.

I know I am late but I think your MC is a dickhead. Maybe he was a frat rat party boy in college?

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn and NJgal I just wanted to thank you again for your posts. I know everyone here has told me similar things. Sometimes people tell you the same thing over and over, but finally it sinks in. Tryn, you are right about the college education. I fought hard for it. I was 18 when I had DS 35, yet I went back to school, sometimes bringing DS with me. Matter of fact, he took his first steps in one of my communication classes! I remember standing at the stove stirring dinner, holding and reading a text book in another and the baby hanging on to my legs. If only I can find that strength again! It's somewhere buried deep inside.
I have been feeling a little better lately. Working on my change of attitude. More of an internal 180 which is actually harder than the external. I'm trying to rely on me for my emotional stability. Working on codependent thinking and behaviors that I'm seeing have permeated my life to the point that I felt guilty if I was feeling happy, always thinking about how others were feeling. This is good if there is a balance of yourself too, and not lose yourself completely trying to do everything for others and worrying about them. (I believe I was doing this to all my loved ones to a point) It's the balance that's important, not being a martyr, which I was not intentionally doing, but seemed to have become to a degree, often feeling used and abused and resentful.

I believe I have turned a corner and can start believing in myself again. Just telling WH that if he did or said something that hurt me, I would tell him and not tolerate it. Calmly. Taking my power back a little at a time. Power over myself and my reactions.

I can't put into words how much each and every one of you have helped, even those of you who just said they were thinking of me. God bless you all.
All of the little things like Dip's grilling techniques to Laura's ducks and ducklings make me feel like we are all like family here and sometimes during the day I might remember something funny that was shared here, and it made me smile.

{{{{tribe}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest:

I believe I have turned a corner and can start believing in myself again. Just telling WH that if he did or said something that hurt me, I would tell him and not tolerate it. Calmly. Taking my power back a little at a time

YAY!!!!!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe - I have missed you all so much! It has taken me hours to get caught up on the posts from Dec. 17th until tonight! I have been out of town (Disney World from 12/18-12/23) and then had guests/company almost every night since. FWH, DS23 and DD22 have been home as well which means that I've barely had a moment to myself.

So...to bring you up-to-date. Our trip to WDW was great. I was able to put aside the emotional toll of the LTA for the most part. The only time I wasn't able to contain myself was when I whispered to FWH that I was angry that he had put our beautiful family at risk. I am so, so blessed to have great kids. They are intelligent, funny and self-confident. I am in awe of them. Anyway...came home and jumped right into the whole holiday hoopla. Stuff with in-laws, my FOO, etc. kept me too busy to feel sorry for myself. It's funny that while I have to work to compartmentalize the pain/horror of the LTA my FWH has no problem putting it all out of his mind. I did see my IC the day after I returned home and the good news is that I'm usually able to keep my emotions in check until I'm in her office. The bad news is that I'm still very ambivalent about whether to continue to try and R or to ask my FWH to move out. In my gut, I want him to move out. But I'm not sure if that's because it's what I think will be better for us or if I just want to punish him for hurting me. If/when he mnoves out then he will no longer be able to keep his secret, on the other hand that also greatly increases the chances of my kids finding out about the LTA. I've given myself permission to not make a decision until 6 mos. after DDay, but guess what, that day is tomorrow.

I'm incredibly sad to think about the past 6 mos. There are still times when I feel like I want to jump out of my skin. In fact, I've had to take Xanax the past 3 days to keep myself together. DS23 left to go back to CA today. He is in the Navy and most likely will not be home for the next year and will be deployed next Christmas. I tried so hard to not dwell on the thought that this may be our last family Christmas, but today I couldn't keep the thoughts at bay. I know that the reality is that nothing ever really stays the same but I thought that FWH and I would weather these storms together as we got older. Instead, I feel so incredibly lonely.

Honest - I'm sorry that being around your WH has been so hard for you. I know that you must feel so much pain but also remember that you are worthy of being happy. You deserve as much to be happy as he does.

ATS - It sounds like things are moving along smoothly for you and your WW. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you that all stays calm.

Miracle - I'm so, so sorry that pfm is getting on your nerves. Let me give you my take on his behavior. He may be trying to emulate/copy what you do so that if the wheels really do fall off the bus then he can say that he is not at fault, after all he was doing what YOU were doing! I think that in my sich my FWH is acting in such a way that if we don't R, he can blame me for the break-up of our M because he was willing to do "anything" I asked to make amends. Anything except make IC/MC a priority, stop traveling, and most of all stop compartmentalizing and minimalizing. I see my FWH as being too weak to really make the changes that he needs to make to himself in order for us to have a complete, fulfilling M. Instead, I am going to have to be the "bad guy" and force his hand or have our children think that a S or D is my fault. Just my $0.02.

I thought of you all often this past week and wished for time to catch up. Please know that I'm thinking of you all and hopeing your all have a peaceful New Year.

PS - I'm sorry that I missed the pics!


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 12:03 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Strong

Welcome back. We've missed you.

I'm reading a little despondency in your post. Another "down" on the rollercoaster? Having your son leave would not help. HUGS!!!

I have sent you a pm

Miracle

Wish I had some insights into the copying you thing. Have no thoughts. Maybe you should try AGNG's solution and call him a dick and walk away. Maybe because he wants R and you don't he is doing what little kids do to get their mum's attention - mimic! Sorry I just don't know.

Tryn

I am overwhelmed by your wise thoughts: Boundaries, love, choices, TRUST.

You told Nell :

You need develop and make the decision, have a deep sense of trust.

Trust is the hard one for me. I am giving him a chance. I am trying hard. But I DO NOT TRUST him. I was talking to my SIL today. She is a BW from 10 yrs ago (has sinced married my brother a BH). She said she D her H because she knew she could never trust him again and couldn't live that way. I do not trust my H after 7 mths. Maybe I will after longer. I am trying. OW3 is at work today. He is on holidays but will pass her car parked in front of hospital on way home from where he is now. He could stop in to see her. I don't THINK he will. But who knows? TRUST is my big hurdle.

He has been wonderful in every way since DDay. Trying so hard to make me happy. Problem is I still don't know all I want to know. Haven't asked any questions for a few weeks now. I think that he thinks that I am "getting better" because I haven't asked anything, cried or thrown a tantrum for a while.

I would really like him to be totally honest and open with me and I don't believe he is. If I push him I don't think he will tell me any more and I will end up crying. He's always been a liar. I know that. I don't know if that is something he can change in himself - it's so deep in his persona. I don't like it but have always thought people have faults, nobody is perfect. Now this is probably the thing that will stall our R.

I suppose this is what I need to start to trust. If only he could get over this hurdle himself. I think we'd have a better chance.

Guess I'd better try to talk to him when he gets home tonight.

Honest

I think you are getting close to the top of that hill. Maybe having him around a lot is helping you to see who he REALLY is. The talk with OW and OCs is so offensive to you. Not hiding it is offensive in the extreme.

He acts like a pharoah and if we minions are "good" he may be benevolent with "favors" like his smile and good humor.

He is an ARSEHOLE!!!!

Dip

How are YOU getting along???

HUGS to all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 3:09 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Guys,

Haven't posted here in quite a while. Hope your holidays are nice & you get a happier New Year.

The big difference is what I call 'the epiphany'.
The moment when the WS has as 'AHA' moment. When he or she realizes that they did not make one little mistake.... instead they realize that they screwed up big time. That they may lose their spouse, their children, their family, their way of life due to their very selfish, narcissistic & often immature behavior.

Another part of the epiphany has to be the realization that their life has not been working. That their way of thinking as well as their behavior has to change.

Just stopping the cheating is NOT enough. Instead, what needs to happen is a complete life altering change.

That is so true. When only the behavior stops but there is no ephiphany, then its more likely that when life gets stressful or the WS gets bored / unsatisfied with their life, that instead of looking inside themselves or talking it out with the BS to find constructive alternatives, that they will find themselves on the slippery slope again.

However, some WS's will be willing to do the hard work needed & be grateful for the chance to keep their marriage & family together. If they are sensitive to the needs of their BS, mutual healing is very possible, one step at a time. It helps to remember that both will be disheartened or frustrated at times, because its not a fast process.

I hope that things will work out very well for all of you in the New Year, however that is best for each of you.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The big difference is what I call 'the epiphany'.
The moment when the WS has as 'AHA' moment. When he or she realizes that they did not make one little mistake.... instead they realize that they screwed up big time. That they may lose their spouse, their children, their family, their way of life due to their very selfish, narcissistic & often immature behavior.
Another part of the epiphany has to be the realization that their life has not been working. That their way of thinking as well as their behavior has to change.

Just stopping the cheating is NOT enough. Instead, what needs to happen is a complete life altering change

This is really the crux of the matter, isn't it?? I truly believe that my FWH had/has ended his A and has had NC since DDay, but he has not changed at all. He is nice to me, thoughtful, but I don't see him working on how he so completely compartmentalizes his family and now the OW and the A. He is sincere in trying but it's just not enough. Does that make me a bad person?? Shouldn't I be grateful that he is truly trying?

Yes Laura, my son leaving has started me on the downward side of the coaster ride. I have been able to set aside my sadness and have acted relatively "normal" these past few weeks. (Like I have any idea what "normal" is these days.) But the reality that this may have been our last family Christmas is something that I have to face. Even if my FWH and I can R, by next Christmas two of our three children will be in the military and possibly deployed. I accept that, I really do.....but I thought that FWH and I would be facing this together. Instead he and I spend most of our time walking on eggshells with each other, trying not to do something that will make the other angry. It's just sad and I don't want to live like this. But the alternatives don't look so good either.

I've missed my friends here in LTA. You are my lifeline of sorts. I have friends IRL, truly I do! But they get tired of hearing me vent. So, I prefer to spend my time alone. But with the Tribe I can be myself and I know that you will understand. Thank you.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish: I'm glad you were able to have fun over the past few weeks. What ever happened to the post-nup agreement?

Hello UnicornSearcher!

Just stopping the cheating is NOT enough
.

This seems to be my Husband's approach - he's not cheating anymore so let's move on shall we? And as of right now it is my approach in terms of what I am willing to do. I am just not willing to put myself out there and try to save this marriage when he still does not get it. The whole Christmas party debacle really showed me my place in his world and I am realizing that I can't change the way he sees things. I'm just going to coast for a while.

Peace all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

uni thank you so much for stopping by, love what you posted....i am in awe of you...of all you have been through and you are still very much a light....


strong: welcome home, happy that you enjoyed your vacation....

life is meant to be enjoyed, somethin i myself am working on...enjoying my life in spite of pfm....

you know your boundaries, period...he either meets them or he does not....do not worry about the 6 month mark, that mark is meant only for you to NOT do anything without giving time....and time you have...if you think about it each and every one of us has that...we all have time...so take the time you need to choose your path of least regret....making sure that your boundaries are being honored the whole way...decide ahead of time which boundaries are dealbreakers so that you have your own mark should it come to that....

You need develop and make the decision, have a deep sense of trust.

tryn i respectfulyl disagree....trust is something that is earned and once earned freely given....if it is not earned it cannot be given after such a huge offense....i believe that if the offender is doing everything right to regain that trust then it is absolutely a decision to trust again, but never the with the same "blind" trust, once that is lost it is permanently lost....but just because it is not blind does not mean that it is not valid...kind of like love...true love allows you to "see" who it is you truly love doesn't it and love them still...


strong: one more thing

Instead, I am going to have to be the "bad guy" and force his hand or have our children think that a S or D is my fault

why would you say you are the bad guy...so NOT SO...you have been more then fair and continue to be more then fair.....if it does not work it is not because you couldn't make it work, it would be because his actions became a lifelong sentence....one that you should not have to live with if that is what you choose...life is meant to be enjoyed and if you can no longer enjoy life day to day without some big trip to distract from the everyday no can or should fault you for not being able to forgive and move on...had his actions not take place this wouldn't even be a consideration...so do not worry about being percieved as the "bad guy"...that would be his label and only his label....most especially since since d-day you truly have tried to make your marriage work in spite of his actions.....he dug it in a ditch and it really is up to him to dig it out....and once he digs far enough you may decide that the dirt makes it impossible and decide to start anew.....all of that is on him...

ok gotta go now...bbl


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stongish,

I initially gave FWW and I 6 months before I would D. It was the holidays, and we both wanted to try and figure out what had happened and to do better with our kids once divorced than she and her xH had done. We attended MC during this period. After 6 months I extended again, but ultimately I decided that anytime I got 2 months of consistent behavior in a row, that would be my sign. We have had bad weeks, but never more than a bad month since dday. As long as I have more positives than negatives for the previous 2 months, and I feel that our overall trajectory is good, I am here to stay. If I hit the two-month mark I will begin my withdrawal with moving out and filing.

Trust

I sit in the middle on this one. Yes, trust has to be earned, but at some point, I had to make a leap of faith to trust FWW. In the past, my trust of FWW was carefree and absolute. Today, my trust is a calculated risk, much like my boat I do the maintenance, take care of the systems, and I trust my boat to bring me home at the end of the day. BUT, I also carry some expensive emergency equipment just in case my boat ever lets me down, or I neglect some important maintenance issue.

Honesttoafault,

…I felt guilty if I was feeling happy, always thinking about how others were feeling …

This was a huge one for me to overcome. I was a bit surprised at myself once I realized how codependent I was with FWW, parents, bosses. I am now free to do whatever I choose to do so long as it does not hurt someone else. If someone hurts me, I respond with “I observed XXX. When you XXX I feel YYY, I would prefer that you do ZZZ.” Once I have said that I am open to further discussion, but I do not expect an apology or explanation. I am just letting the other person know how I feel. Feelings are not rational, so I do not try to figure out is I “should” feel the way I do, I just tell them how I feel. If expressing how I feel does not alter his or her action, I do not press for change, but decide if I can accept this behavior or not. I expect the same from others. No matter how obvious it may be to him or her, if I am hurting them and they do not alert me, then I do not feel any guilt.

Laura28,

I would really like him to be totally honest and open with me and I don't believe he is.

This is one of the issues FWW is working on in IC. She has not been able to be emotionally intimate with me, or anyone. This made it impossible for her to be honest and open with me, because that would expose her fears and needs. She felt she would lose control. Another aspect of this is conflict avoidance. FWW worried I would not like her if I knew who she really was, so she hid her feelings.

A final thought. We just had our third freeze this fall. This is more freezing weather than in the previous 5 years. It has taken a toll on the backyard. Mango tree, tomatoes, summer squash, ferns, and many butterfly plants are dead and brown. In the past, we just put the plants out and they grew. We tried replanting after the first freeze just to have them killed off again. It is not our planting that is the problem. We are selecting healthy plants, or well cared for seed, and giving them good care, but until the weather cooperates, we are not going to be able to grow tropical fruit or summer crops. Some plants we cover and put lights in with them to heat them. This is a lot of work, and still the plants are looking rough. So I accept that we can grow onions, collards, lettuce, and peas right now, but I am not longer trying to grow the summer crops. This is the third mango tree to freeze to death, so we are giving up on mangos too. No matter how hard we try and keep re-trying, given this year’s weather we cannot grow summer vegetables right now, so we are focusing on what we can grow.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:43 AM, December 29th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well Iwant, this is what I so love about you… Why can’t you start with giving trust before earning it? You can just give someone trust at any time. They don’t even have to earn it to get it. It is a choice and decision. But just like you give it to them, you can also take it back away. A good marriage you must have trust. If you are R’ing, you need to give it back to them. You see.. to me, the most important thing is that they must EARN to keep it!

No doubt that people make decisions not to trust after infidelity. I fully understand because all those feeling that come when someone is not trustworthy will eat away at your happiness. But trust really is a decision. TRUST - reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence. Yep, if you don’t have trust, you should probably look for a new relationship and partner. Do you really want a life always having to investigate you spouse? Going around with all that doubt? Do you want someone always checking on you? I don’t.

I didn’t trust my W for a long time. Why? Because I was scared she was going to cheat on me again. Those feelings following dday… well, you know what they felt like… Horrendous. I never wanted to experience those feeling again. I think for some reason, if my wife does make the choice to be unfaithful again, It won’t hurt the same. I guess I am hardened… But anyway, after hours and hours thinking about trust… I conclude it is something we can give… or not give.

Today, I do trust my wife and I have confidence she will not betray me again. I don’t follow her, I don’t check her cell text, I don’t have a GPS in her car, no VAR, I am allowing her to go to Vegas with her GF’s in January and I don’t have fears. I feel safe too. In fact, she is free to do anything she wants.

I made the choice to Trust. But with this trust that I gave her, she has a responsibility be trustworthy. This is a boundary for me. I will only be married to someone I can trust. The consequences for untrusting will be to end my marriage relationship. For example, My W knows my position about her developing a personal relationship with another man. I think my W also listened very well to me too. I told her over and over, when I did not feel safe. She understood what that was and today tries to make me feel safe. She invites me every time when she has drinks with her GF’s, shopping, those times her A took place. She always calls me to see what’s going on and lets me know what she is doing. She does not go to lunch or have drinks with any of the men at her office. She does not contact those men at any time outside of work. My wife behaves trustworthy so I trust her. I'll make this point too. I had to protect this boundary! And did it with stong language and emotions.. I have a story behind it for another long post.. lol

She can cross that line again and that is her decision. I may not catch her at first, but I feel to have an A takes some energy that I am fully aware of… then again, I am also way wiser than ever before. Should she cheat, I believe the kinds of love she gives me right now will change... some kind of feelings will change that I have confidence I will notice. My awareness about our relationship is very high. Maybe that's my "guard"? When that slight unhappiness is projected to me, I know today how to do something about it.

Laura, What more do you need to know?

And to unicornsearcher point, my wife had the epiphany… I totally agree.

Strongish.. I think you are doing amazing well…BTW, It will be OK if word gets out. My neighbor’s child told my daughter and she told my son. All our close friends know. All her family knows and they all tell me they think I am an amazing man to forgive. You are strong enough to deal with it. I once had to tell my daughter that it was none of her damn business and stop all the hating her mother… Please try and allow us get through this… My son and I were in a car ride back to school and asked me what was going to happen? I said that both of us would continue to support him and love him. I told him we were trying to reconcile. That was it. To this day, that is all I had to deal with. I will venture to say, older kids will end up knowing, so just be prepared. My Kids both had fear too. Actually, I am glad they know about it. I take pride in the fact I have the ability to forgive someone who killed me. One day, I am going to have a powerful teaching moment… all this is really is amazing if you think about it. I guess that is why Hollywood loves to make it into art.


Peace out today!

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:39 AM, December 29th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today, I want all you to be the first to know. I am thinking about asking my wife to marry me.

26 year ago, I never got on my knee and asked her to marry me. I cannot even remember proposing other than being asked, “what are your intentions”. I remember only responding, “I’m going to marry you.” Then next thing I know, we are shopping for a ring and telling her parents. My wife cannot even tell me the day I proposed. Essentially, I never proposed marriage to my wife in any romantic way that we both can take pride in. I think too, if my wife can say her commitment to me under God, she will feel better about herself and it will reinforce any doubt about my forgiveness.

It has been 27 months of a whole lotta work on myself to get to this point. I think I am almost ready.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn,


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
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