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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((nofun))
When my H is out of the house, it's peaceful. I get all tense and stressed out when I know he is on his way home. ...

I understand this feeling, and I am sorry you suffer from this. For me, this was a symptom of FWW's issues and my co-dependency. I could spend 45 minutes doing some household chore or task, and when she got home she would want to know why I did not do X, or Y was not yet finished. I would race to get everything done before she got home so she would be "happy" While I see now what I was doing and I am no longer needing to please her to be happy, I still get the anxiety twinges sometimes.

He doesn't get it and never will.

I guess I am fortunate that FWW sort-of gets this, and I can hope it will get better.

I think he's lying to me because instead of going regularly, he has not gone in over one month. He tends to tell me what he thinks I want to hear.

I understand why your H does not want to attend the C sessions, and I understand just how important they are. I have been pleasantly surprised that FWW has continued with her weekly IC with our C. I truly did not believe that she would follow through. She does not like the sessions, both what they reveal about herself, and the old issues and emotions they stir up. I am "riding it out" for now, hoping for a better future.

FWW does a lot of telling me what she thinks I want to hear. Between this and distrust about her lies after dday I have trouble believing anything she says. For now, I just observe her actions. I hope part of the IC will get her to feel better advocating for herself and telling me the truth rather than what she thinks I want to hear. Then we can truly decide if we can stay together or not.

old dipstick: you reminded me of a song: Another Saturday and he ain't got nobody, so he's on the computer, but he recently got laid...

stongish, I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to try and work through the issues and rebuild trust so close to dday while your WS is away so much and defensive. FWIW, FWW was defensive and still blaming me for the decline of the M for 6-7 months out from dday. She still retreats sometimes to the "lot's of mistakes were made back then by all of us" position.

We had a good weekend with teamwork coordinating DS transportation and other activities. We won 1st place for our division in the boat parade Saturday. FWW has retreated within herself some yesterday, I think due to a discussion yesterday about her IC last Friday. We did have an interesting, if brief, discussion about holidays and other family gathering events and the issue of her oldest DD hating me, her BIL, her parents, etc. I noticed that while she is not talking to me much, she is reaching out using HER love languages. She made coffee for me this morning, fixed breakfast, yesterday told me what a good job I had been doing on a project. It is nice to know she is trying, but also reinforces for me how important it is to express your love in your spouse's appropriate love language.

iwam, nice to hear from you, I hope you are doing OK.

Hi honest.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 8:59 AM, December 6th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's a really good post in JFO from a BS on the 10 things she learned during her 4 years post d-day - "advice from on oldbie." She did decide to D so the angle of her story tends to lean in this direction.
It's funny because as I get closer to my 5 year anniversary of d-day - the 23rd of this month, I kept wondering if there were things I might be able to share to help some of you, especially those in the first year of recovery.
Unlike lovin', I am not blissfully happy that I stayed, but I'm also not unhappy either. NJGal also seems very happy with how successful her R has been. But not many of us will be so lucky to have S's who make such dramatic changes and consistent commitment to the M. The reasons then that we stay have more to do with keeping the family together and this for me has, for the most part, been reason enough.
My H has made some changes, has shown a renewed commitment to the M and, as far as I can tell, immediately went NC. Also, there has been no reason for me to believe throughout these 5 years that there was ever a period of false R. All of these things have kept me motivated to stay in my M but if I am to be honest, the joy I once knew has never returned and the scar of his LTA, though healed, has left me with a relative numbness in my feelings for both my H and my M.
I think a large part of the problem for me has been my loss of respect for the man I thought I knew. It is so impossible for me to understand how someone who claims to love you, your children and your life together, can spend years f'ing another person, risking everything they claim to care about. And in my H's case it really wasn't about love, it was about having some pathetic lowlife do for him whatever he wanted, whenever, that he risked losing us for. This knowledge has had a profound impact on me.
In cases where a FWS has a personality disorder that might help you understand or at least explain their behavior, I think it might make one a little more compassionate, but when a WS's behavior is based primarily on a sense of entitlement with no concern for the fallout of their behavior on those they claim to love, then the reality of their selfishness, for me anyway, is something that will forever keep me from giving him my blind trust. Without trust in a M, full and complete love and appreciation for one another is much harder to attain.
I know this must sound terribly depressing but to me it's just my reality. It's neither depressing nor optimistic. It just is.
I love my H, I'm glad I chose to stay. But I think I will forever wonder what life could have been like with a man who truly knew how to love and commit himself to M and family.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In cases where a FWS has a personality disorder that might help you understand or at least explain their behavior, I think it might make one a little more compassionate,...

fnf, having the significant FOO and personality issues in the background does help accept why the A's occured, but it also leaves you with the question to what extent will the FWS be able ot address these life-long issues, and what are you willing to accept going forward.

So I am trying to read the future. How long do I wait and see. How many years do I accept "it is not bad" hoping for it will be great, rather than cutting my losses and skipping directly to looking for great.

I really feel I am beyond the A stuff, primarily becasue the other underlying issues are so significant. I also have a very clear understanding that in FWW's case her A's were not at all about me, no matter what SHE thought at the time. They were her and her OM grabbing whatever external validation they could get in a desperate effort to feel better about themselves. I really pity them all; FWW, BIL, and the OM.

What I regret most is that I was codependent and tolerated her for so long in the M. FWW, my kids, and I will pay for my lack of balls for the rest of our lives.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H has made some changes, has shown a renewed commitment to the M and, as far as I can tell, immediately went NC. Also, there has been no reason for me to believe throughout these 5 years that there was ever a period of false R. All of these things have kept me motivated to stay in my M but if I am to be honest, the joy I once knew has never returned and the scar of his LTA, though healed, has left me with a relative numbness in my feelings for both my H and my M.

This is how I see my future if WH and I stay together. More and more, I am considering letting him know this. I have to decide whether that's just pessimism or if it's really the way it's going to be.

He was so unfair to me, but that doesn't mean I have to be unfair to him. At some point, I feel like I need to say: "X" is all I've got. If it's not enough for you, we need to call it quits.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I regret most is that I was codependent and tolerated her for so long in the M. FWW, my kids, and I will pay for my lack of balls for the rest of our lives.

I really hope you don't feel this way. Please take pride in the fact that you are giving your W and your M another chance. That you aren't focused solely on your own needs but recognize that you are not the only one to consider. (I loved that discussion the other day posted by M3.)
You have so much to be proud of, least of all that you are a caring, compassionate man who really wants to see his M and his family survive.
(((ATS)))
I have to decide whether that's just pessimism or if it's really the way it's going to be

I honestly believe that LTA survivors need to be more gentle with themselves re: expectations. We have been dealt a major blow and it is so unfair to expect our recovery to be easy. 5 years out and I am still not where I'd like to be but I am so much better than I was on d-day. It has been a slow recovery but I am recovering. I never cry over his 8 year LTA, I almost never rant , I don't dwell on the "why" anymore.
Even though I am not where I hoped to be at this point in time, I do feel better about my M than I did in the early years. The mantra, LTA = LTRecovery, to me is very helpful. I have never expected this to be an easy process and I don't worry about whether or not my H thinks I'm where he thinks I should be. From the very beginning I have believed that the length of my H's A would very much impact the length of my recovery and, like you, the fact that the OW was someone we trusted has also affected recovery.
If your H got caught rather than choosing to end the A, that is another factor that affects the length of time to recover. I am in no rush. As long as I see a slow, steady progression I am satisfied.
As for feeling bad for your H that maybe this isn't enough for him, this is the path he took you on . I hope he has the balls to walk this path with you.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is not sorry and he really doesn't think he did anything all that bad. He asked me this weekend when I would ever finally forgive him -- but what would be the point? I can only assume what he means is when am I going to go back to thinking he's wonderful. Well, I'm not. I think me not bringing it up is the best he's gonna get. Just this morning he asked if we should cancel Christmas like it's come kind of joke, and I thought back to the first time he said he would cancel christmas -- it was no joke then. He was mad at the Pharaoh for crying about being scared he would get soap in his eyes when I washed his hair and he told him he was a worthless horrible kid (he was 4) and he didn't deserve to have Christmas and he was going to hurt him so I threw myself between them, even though I was holding the Pasha and Pasha was only 1 month old -- and he screamed and chewed us out and then he stomped out and spent the night getting drunk and doing whatever with OW. So, he says "should we cancel christmas" all the time since then like it's some funny joke. this morning, I said -- we're never cancelling christmas and I don't like it when you say that." and he said -- it's just a joke so I said, well, it's not funny.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is not sorry and he really doesn't think he did anything all that bad

Really M3?? Has there ever been a time since d-day where he acknowledged his remorse for his actions and your pain?
As to the Christmas story, I think some of our H's think they are being funny when really to me it is when they can be most annoying.
Your story about your son sounded very similar to an incident many years ago when my son was in the tub and acting up. My H took a glass of water and threw it in his face. I was furious! I wanted to pounce on him and couldn't believe he had done that to our little boy. I don't know if they think this will toughen them up but to me it only serves to frustrate and humiliate them.
When I hear stories that sound so similar to mine, I am always amazed at how many similar traits our H's seem to have.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

speaking of Christmas,

last year was the first Christmas in a few years that FWW's ringtone for me at the hoiday was not the song "You're a Mean One Mr. Grinch". I remember asking her about this when I heard it a few years back. She and the kids thought it was a great joke. I suspect the OM did too. Last year (3 months after dday) she was still saying it was just a joke. this year she gets it. I guess we are making progress. Slow, painful progress. Still, for at least a few years, Grinch is the picture of me she painted for the kids.

We met at home for lunch today (we are both just 10 minutes from home). She had my lunch ready to warm up, and I got a hug. Beats McDonalds!


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just going to throw it out there -- but it seems to me with LTA the WS being emotionally abusive is pretty ubiquitous. Maybe it's harder to recover from that than from the A.

Has there ever been a time since d-day where he acknowledged his remorse for his actions and your pain?

Well, I got a few "I'm sorry I hurt you"'s and one time he caught me crying in the shower and said it hurt him to see me sad. That's about it. Everything else was excuses.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480.. your post did not go un-noticed to me.
Living Through a Personal Crisis by Ann Kaiser Stearns
I took the time to look at her message. I am here to say that I took Ann’s advice in about every aspect even though mostly by my own happenstance. I am fortunate I made choice that aligned with Ann. We all have the same physiological psychology makeup. We all are going to make it through infidelity… If you listened to Ann, the things you do to make it through… 1) We are connected to each other, I am connected to you just as you to me. We are doing it! 2) We live with thankful hearts. I’m doing that!

True, I have my ups and downs. Heck, I even made a chart Let me share today my feelings over time as I reflected over the first 2 years as I could remember them.

Looks like a mess.. The sharpness of the initial swings were shocking to put it mildly. Yep I was a mess.. but all falling back to the new me.

Sure, I’ve lost “this” peace within me. As forgivenotforget has said , it’s respect. For me, also some jealousy because I did not have that chance or choice to feel “lust” again. But me having those opinions and thoughts have not effected many of the romantic nights we’ve had since.. the fun of ball games, kids stuff… on and on… all on my own efforts in planning.. and my wife mostly following my lead with reciprocity! You get what you give… and if you never get what you give then find it somewhere else because you can have it.. it’s out there.

But looking at all this today, I have worked hard to get to this point… IC, Reading, Post here, talking with my friends, praying, Retrouvaille, and just allowing myself to feel it. I went for years looking at life through television… none effecting me! But I am living life and I have learned from this…

- I fully understand what forgiveness is and I live it to the best I can live it… I got this from a book and my IC. I made the decision to forgive my Wife.
- I learned what true love is about, what mature love is.. and I give it, and will only accept those that love me like I need to be loved. I got this this from Retrouvaille and the five languages of love…
- I learned what marriage is really about too. HARD… Know this from reality!
- I learned how to discuss something without threats, and in safety… and know there will some things I just won’t agree with. Retrouvaille.
- People you love sometimes will hurt you. A reality of life I never believed before today. I learned this from Dr Phil’s book Real Life and I am preparing for other future challengings days I may face.

If you look at my feelings chart I am almost back to where I was before dday.. but today, I am so much more a better man. I am not saying I deserved any bit of this… but I am stronger today then I could have ever imagined. Heck yep, sure I cry, I think about this every day. I even re-evaluate my relationship often because this is my life and I am not going to allow another person to take advantage of me ever again. I treat my wife better than ever and I am being treated better than ever... I will never again fear being alone... because I won't!

Retrouvaille had much to do with changing me. It can change you too. It might even change your spouse. You all can do this my way and end up with some happiness… I can see some have stalled here and some keep moving ahead working on it.. My IC says I am way ahead of everyone in a time line... but it is because I chose early on to learn how not to be taken advantage of again, Forgive, only love, commitment... and communicate in a safe, intimate ways... Go get it!

Overcome fear… make the decision to love.. or change your life and find a new love. Good partners are available! New feelings are waiting for you… and inside you are waiting to explode into becoming alive again!!

Wow.. I feel like Knute Rockne!

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:19 PM, December 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf and others,
Thought I'd share what went on in MC on Saturday. Or, rather, what did NOT go on. WH did not bother to finish his "needs" list. I was frustrated that he didn't do the list and voiced my frustration calmly; WH went instantly defensive (Well, I'M frustrated because I don't get credit for what I did do!) to which the MC responded, "Come on, dude. Are you just popping off or what? What is your problem?" (Which I thought was hilarious because this MC is damn close to 50 years old and a very smooth operator.) MC then ignored WH and turned to me and talked me through the frustration. (Frustration is covering some other emotion. What is that emotion? That's the one you need to pay attention to.) This is an ongoing problem with WH... him not bothering to work on the homework MC gives us. Obviously the homework is not his first priority. I went back to WH later in the day and said, here are the emotions that I was feeling when you didn't do the homework. I felt X, I interpreted it as Y, it meant Z to me to work on it and I feel that you don't feel Z.

So WH actually did jot down a couple of "needs" and I thought I would share them with you, as none of them are what he started with.
ETA: He shared these with me the day after our MC, but he did have them during MC. Just didn't know where they were (folded up in his pocket).
The italics are what he jotted down, the plain text was what he said when I sat and questioned each point (because it was supposed to be concrete examples... the homework was for WH to give five examples finishing this statement:
"I will feel VALUED when Nell...")

Follows my lead
When Mr. Nell is putting time and effort into something (hobby), Nell will also put time and effort into it and/or actively support it.

Takes my ideas seriously
When Mr. Nell has an idea, Nell voices approval (or discusses if she does not agree with it) and jumps in

Shows interest in my activities/hobbies
Nell does Mr. Nell's activities with him

Shows me that I make Nell happy and that Nell wants to be with me
Nell does not care what she and Mr. Nell are doing, as long as they are doing it together.

Now accepting all feedback.

(edited again because this blasted font thing hates me!)

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 5:24 PM, December 6th (Monday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 5:58 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying - looking at your graph WOW. At 6 mths post DDay for me Im very much in the same places as you were. Confidence is shot to pieces (its really difficult looking for a new job when feeling so low) & the anger is definitely on the up. This w/e if I wasnt pumping iron I was in the pool or just containing the anger so the kids wouldnt be affected. The anger is boiling beneath the surface & if I dont keep it in check I will blow big time. Everything Im feeling right now is roughly where you have plotted it.
Thank you - its an incredible visual marker as to where I am at the moment.

I know Im a better father & husband than I was 12 months ago. I still live in hope.

old dipstick ...more of the same when she gets back

[This message edited by deeppurple at 5:59 PM, December 6th (Monday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - just popping in

Tryn - I have to look at your post more closely when I'm not surrounded by kids ready to tear each other's heads off for the slightest transgression on the video game of the moment...

Nell- my immediate reaction is that his list seems really superficial, but maybe I don't understand the concept behind the assignment. These are the things that make him feel most valued? Most of his needs are variations of you joining in on his activities with varying levels of effort.

M3: The reason I felt compelled to log in and add my 2 cents.

My WH is not sorry and he really doesn't think he did anything all that bad

That is F--kn unbelievable!
I REALLY don't like that. He's not giving you much to work with.
I mean, my H is waiting for me to never mention it again and would like me to think he's Mr. Wonderful, but he knows neither is going to happen.
I think you need to put insulation in his underwear... (See... I'm paying attention Dip. Lol...)


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, December 6th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m3: your husband was extremely emotionally abusive and verbally abusive to you and your kids....does he acknowledge this and has he changed it?....

i too was emotionally and verbally abused and dday gave me my freedom from that treatment permanently...i no longer made excuses for his behavior and i no longer would accept it for one minute longer, and i told him so.....if pfm ever goes back to that ugly man, he is out immediately, because then his staying for the kids will only do more harm.......and that was an immediate dealbreaker from that point on.....even though i plan on divorcing as soon as i feel my kids are in a position to handle it all i will still consider this deal we have right now null and void and he will be out......

there is no reason on this planet why anyone after experiencing this betray to me anyways should ever put up with that kind of abuse again....its one thing when you rationalize it when you believe he is faithful and loves you and has the best intentions even though you know he is wrong, his intentions as far as you know are "honorable",,,at least that is what i used to tell myself.....but after this...HELL NO...there is not an honorable bone in any of them as far as i can see......

if the ws steps up to the plate after d-day and really commits to doing all that is needed, well then that ws is earning it....otherwise i say out...

nell: i actually like the list....it sounds alot like what a child would want though from a parent....or what someone would expect from someone who cares....he is asking imo for you to be involved in his life...that to me is a good thing...

not liking that he didn't produce it at the mc...i get the impression that he is really scared of judgement from mc....i hope he gets over the fear....it will paralyze him and your recovery....

kudos to you for sitting down with him and going over it....and more kudos to getting him to explain his simple sentences....


fnf: i did read that post in jfo....i loved it, the only thing though i disagree with is her list of ws's....there are more then 3 kinds....i got the 4th kind....he is sorry, remorseful only to where his fear takes over, and not remorseful or sorry enough to stop lying....whether or not cheating is still going on matters not anymore, the man can't tell the truth about anything...no matter how simple or stupid, if he feels fear he will lie and that is bad, very very bad....hence no "r" for me...


and i am coming up on 2 years....kind of ruins the season kwim....

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A very frank and painful discussion late last night, but she spent the night snuggled tight to me (thank you, cold front) On the face of things she is trying hard to love me and be the person I need, but anxiety, black and white thinking, shame spirals, and fear of my disapproval paralyze her. OTOH, she could just be saying what she thinks I want to hear to keep me from taking action. I have IC this morning, so plenty to talk about.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(I am biting my tongue on responding to allgood and miracle until I hear from others... so if you have thoughts, please throw them out there!)

m3,
Though my WH was never abusive, he was neglectful. Like miracle, there are things I accepted pre-A because on the whole, I thought WH was a good husband (honest, caring, trustworthy, etc.) and now my o-no-you-didn't level is much, much lower. I call WH on stuff I always let go before. I insist that he do things that I just covered for him or got elsewhere before. I regularly tell WH exactly what I find unacceptable and there are actual consequences now. I'm not worried about being Nice Nell or The Perfect Wife. I figure the A was a dealbreaker and I'm negotiating a new marriage contract here. People talk about boundaries and consequences and dealbreakers. I never even considered those things before the A. I was married and that was that. The word "dealbreaker" is a new one for my relationship, but it's my new favorite.

ETA: tryn,
I love the graph! I think you need a few more wiggly all-over-the-place lines, though. It seems not quite chaotic enough.

[This message edited by ImNellNow at 6:48 AM, December 7th (Tuesday)]


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I so think Iwant is correct...
if the ws steps up to the plate after d-day and really commits to doing all that is needed, well then that ws is earning it....otherwise i say out...
I know my wife did this.

ImNellNow... You cannot control what your spouse does or does not do. You can only control yourself. I think he is on the edge of leaving you... BUT I WANT TO CORRECT... I think all Affairs have that element...

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:06 AM, December 7th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell- I think the response that stands out above all others is "show me that I make Nell happy and that Nell wants to be with me." To me, this speaks volumes and may explain why he has such a defeatist attitude. I don't necessarily agree with Tryn (sorry ) that he is "on the edge of leaving you" but I do believe he struggles with motivation to work on the M since he's not sure whether or not you're committed to the M. Unfortunately, he's got it backwards, IMHO. He needs to be the one to show absolute commitment to the M since he is the one who broke his vows in order for you to fulfill this need.
Initially my H also struggled with this - why put too much effort into R if FNF is only going to leave in the end.
Fortunately, our MC was so good at reaching my H and saying just the right thing to get my H out of his self-pitying mode. The one example I always give is when my H was particularly feeling sorry for himself and our MC said, "If this is too much trouble for you, let us know now and don't waste anymore of our time." It was like a slap across his face. It was f'ing fantastic.

I love what your MC said too.
These guys are so thick and need someone to say just the right thing with the right attitude in order to break through their self-pitying walls.
Hang in there Nell. It's still early for you and for him. Hopefully he will begin to accept that it is him who must prove to you his willingness to R in order for you to decide to recommit to him.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:55 AM, December 7th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ImNellNow… Ok.. I’ll give you my thoughts… You are a mess. Yep. But not to worry although, nothing I can say or do will change your worrying right now. Where you are at is about right point in your grief.. Grief of loss is what happens after our spouses broke a marriage promise to God, to us, and our family and friends. I know I want you to feel so much better… I first want to point out that MC is not going to fix your H. No “stinking” MC is going to tell him what he needs to do. It’s like a chore for him to go to MC. Your MC is making him, forcing him, controlling him, to think a different way. MC are also paid. How much do the really care about you or your H anyway? They can tell you what they’ve been trained as to what is needed but I know the cost for them to help you will be way too much. I think MC should be used and viewed at as someone that can help you very minimal and only a small part of your fixing your M.

A question for both you and your H… How are you both going get back to the point in time when you both fell in love, those feeling of really caring about one another, wanting to see each other all the time, wanting to hold each other, wanting to tell each other about your day, wanting to play together? How are you going to get to that time when you both decided to marry each other? How will you ever get there again? How are you going to get there? If you think your MC is going to help you get there you are wrong. It will take too long and cost too much money. Your marriage is destroyed and it needs to be reconstructed. That memory in your mind there forever… too.. You being a painter maybe you can appreciate this.. you are going to have to know this is here forever and learn to fight your own brain over the feelings. You are going to have to learn to control what this part of the brain wants to do. You might even have to change what you have been taught as a child. You need to sign up for change right now.

My horse, named trigger, a sea horse in my brain, my Hippocampus.
Round and round I fight it, everyday.
My love, rode that horse, I hate that, becoming input
Output now, my mind fights the world of other riders, round and round.
To fade in time is hope, but stuck forever, in long term, in my horse.

Let me help you with plan of how you are going to reach love again with your H. I’m sure you’ve already started some of this… Your house needs to be rebuilt. Maybe it can, maybe it cannot. That will be your decision only. YOURS! This is about you right now. This is about you taking control over what you need to be happy in life. I recommend you need to make a decision to go to Retrouvaille. You H need a big dose of this too.
How are you and your H going to learn to re-commit, to love, to forgive and to trust? These are the foundation of a marriage. You guys need to somehow learn again to not be afraid to talk to each other again. You need to learn how to somehow get to a deep intimacy so that your feelings and relationship can be the best for your own happiness! You need to seek your own happiness and damn your H if is not going to tell you what he needs, not going to love you the way you need to be loved. And in turn, YOU need to love him like you love no other!
The 180 is designed to make the person that cheats think about what they are about to lose. It instills fear into the brain. Decisions based on fear? The bond is about to be broken after years of being together. It’s scary because marriage is about commitment and comfort. You need to realize that your H broke the bond and was/is ready to leave you. Nell.. it is your own decision to stay married to this cheater isn’t it? It is up to you to take a chance and give your H a second chance 100% or leave him. I say this because this is happiness. It is what you need again. Let me put it bluntly. You are going to have to pardon your H. Period. Pardon and forgive. It starts with you to make the choice. He may cheat on you again. That is not your choice and you won’t be able it stop him. You can only make decisions for yourself. You have the power within yourself to forgive.
Let me share what forgivness is…
These are acts of kindness or things you can do that are forgiving.

First… forgiveness is a choice… It is not a feeling… It is not anything you can or cannot do unless you decide… You can make your brain do these things…

1) Make the choice to forgive
2) Make the deliberate and irrevocable choice not to tell anyone what they did.
3) Be pleasant to them should you be around them
4) If conversation ensues, say that which would set them free from guilt
5) Let them feel good about themselves
6) Protect them from their greatest fears
7) Keep it up today, tomorrow, this year and next
8) Pray for them
I am here to say once you make the decision to forgive and try to follow the above.. you will fail over and over. This is when you pick yourself up and try again. See each and every one of us can do all these things. But you get good at it in a very short time. The above form of forgiveness is not asking you to bury you feelings. You can easily use SI to express your feelings. But you need to always work on yourself on what you plan to do to make yourself happy.

Second, you need some new boundaries for youself. These are yours. They are all about you.
Let me share some of mine
- I will not be married to someone that does not love me the way I need to be love… My language of love is touch. I need affirmation. (READ the 5 Languages of love.. A MUST READ for both you and your H) Sex is very meaningful to me and If my wife does not want to love me in this way, then my marriage to her will end.
- I will not be married to someone that needs to have a relationship with another man. I trust my wife, but I always check the phone bill to see if she is talking to one number over and over, something needed in an affair. The signs of affairs are pretty visible. I know what to say and how to say it to protect this boundary.
- I will not be married to someone that cusses me, cuts me down, and demeans me.

With the boundaries you need some courage, inner Strength, willpower, and confidence to enforce. The courage you need a positive dream that you can be independent without your current H. You will be happy with the next replacement. But you are damn well going to have a satisfying life from here out with the choice you made today. That choice is to R. You need to also be able to clearly communicate your needs and boundaries.. When they are close, crossed and broken.

Third, You need a new way of communicating to each other. Obviously, our spouses were unable to communicate properly because they needed something. So this is something you must adapt and change. I can do this in a way taught to me by Retrouvaille. It is a technic that is very old called Dialogue. For me, I have a very hard time expressing my needs to my W verbally. So sometimes I must write them down. The dialogue basics are always asked in the form of a question and you describe only your feelings. Feelings are what they are. Feelings are neither right nor wrong. Our brains just do it to us… I know for fact that Retrouvaille Dialogue is intimate.
My W shuts down when she it trying to enforce her boundaries to me. She can go a day enforcing what she cannot tell me. She goes into this silent mode.. I get only yes and no’s, only or very short calm answers. When this happens, I can take the Dialogue technic at the right time and place with my intention to get her to expose the feelings she has. That has always ultimately concluded to a resolution.

You can achieve happiness and it comes with yourself. You have the power to make a decision to change for the better… You control your life. Don’t allow your kids, your friends, your employer, your H to control your happiness….

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:32 AM, December 7th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, December 7th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell... I own you an apology for may post above FNF… I had to rush to a meeting and never finished.. and I had so much more to say…

I didn't mean to say.. I think your H is ready to leave you.. in the context I said it... But then heck.. My W could be planning an escape right now too??

Will you accept my apology?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:30 AM, December 7th (Tuesday)]


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