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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok! I have a few questions...

am just going to ask...What is with all the Fucking Duck talk???

Is it the "Get your Ducks in a row" legal kind of thing?

Also, what is FOO.. Can't find it anywhere..

Hope you all are having a great day!!


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Ats)))

I have no words to help you...but wanted you to know that we are here for you.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oofa.

Ats: I still think your wife is doing well. While I think she should cooperate with whatever request you make, I personlly do not believe you need to know anything else other than whether she had a physical relationship with BIL or not.
And, I don't find her story all that unbelievable about the motel,but does it really matter? I mean, I see it would be more painful to think they had these epic kind of sexual encounters, especially when you are being denied the same treatment, but if you take the "Trynhard" approach - you have to look at what she is doing now & what she is doing now seems sensitive, thoughtful & productive.

Shocked & Numb: the "fucking ducks" have to do with Laura's ducks - she posted a photo a few pages back & her stories about them were just hysterical, plus the "ducks in a row" saying was an extra bonus as the pic she posted was, in fact, of all her ducks in a row. (Plus there was some talk about how excited her ducks were in the grass... I'm really not doing the story justice - you have to go back a few pages & catch up.)

And FOO is Family of Orgin.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can find a pic of Laura’s fucking ducks here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=380406&AP=81&HL=

And FOO is Family Of Origin.

She was in a dark place during her A, she never thought she would be that kind of person, and she is disgusted if she thinks or remembers that time.
This is what my H said in the early days. That he was in a dark place and couldn’t see a way out. Which came first – the darkness or the affair? Was the affair an escape from the darkness or did the affair cause the darkness? Which ever it was, he was fucked up in his thinking that one would soothe the other. I think that FWH has dressed it up in his head to make it more palatable to himself as he presents it to me. Personally, I think he was plain selfish and simply thought he wasn’t going to get caught. But that’s my jaded opinion of my H.

I don’t buy the “just talking” either. But you know what Ats? You weren’t there. She is limiting the damage – and who can blame her? They mostly all do that, esp those in LTA’s or who are SA’s.They have a lot to hide. And they hide it from themselves too. They don’t like to think about that time in their lives – their behaviour, the deceit, the guilt (pushed down, but still there from time to time), going hand in hand (as it were) with pleasure, illicit trysts and attention. Your FWW is never going to tell you everything – the more they tell, the more they hurt us, the less we believe, the less we trust and so it goes on. But she is doing very well, by your account.

I found MC was the best place to discuss the affair. In the early days I wouldn’t have it mentioned in the home at all. Not at all. Before we really got going on MC, I would take FWH to a pub were we weren’t known and talk/rant there. I got more answers - yeh, I know he lied in MC, but even so, it was better for me to have that “permission”. He was there for an hour, so wriggling was more difficult with two of us questioning him.

Tread carefully Ats. The truth is rarely simple and never pretty.


eta - cross posting. Hi allgood - want some snow? I spent three hours digging a path to the garage, making some room in there, digging out the car, scooping 2ft of snow from the top and getting it away before more snow fell. Sheesh.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:14 AM, December 1st (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW, Getting your ducks in a row simply means being organised. As is ducks lined up. I don’t know where it comes from, but for me it has meant being ready to shoot the ducks at a fairground, which would have been the same for shooting wildlife. Have your gun ready, the target in your sight, and take them out one by one.

So Laura had got her fucking ducks in a row, literally!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey UKGirl - yes we cross-posted and no - I do not want any of your snow. I DISlike snow very much. In fact, I dislike the winter or any season that causes me to wear anything more than a light jacket over my clothing.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ukgirl

For you

Laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 1:39 PM, December 1st (Wednesday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats - It does appear as if your WW is making a real effort.
I ask myself often what were they doing for that 5 hours etc. Rememeber back when you 1st dated WW - that period of romantic love. My WW & I would talk for hours non stop I'd often wonder where the time went. In the A OM doesnt want to hear/talk about that shit, but if he shows/gives attention he gets a reward - sex - no obligation - its all she can give him to keep the A going to get that fix. Without the sex the affair dies it looses it adventure.

PS my friend look after yourself & get off the smokes.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats - just to let you know, my sex drive took a nose dive. And I'm blaming it on menopause. I wish I thought about sex like I used to, but I don't. Damn lack of hormones? Or lack of feelings? I'm still trying to figure this out. Much of what you said about your wife's sex drive, I can relate to. But then again, I wonder if it's because I'm so angry and not interested in having sex with my H. Just saying!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats-
I know where you're coming from. I definitely needed details in order to help myself deal with the LTA.
I felt as if he and the OW had all the answers while I had been in the dark for all of those years....so, I needed to reverse that and get some answers....many answers.
I know I have complained about my husband not wanting to talk about the affair but remember..this New Years will be 4 yrs since d-day for us. The first year post d-day (especially the first 6 months when we were separated) I did get answers and a fairly good idea of what their time together was like. I also got a detailed timeline of the 5 yr LTA...where,when, and what happened (sexually, etc.).
In my husband's case a lot of the time together involved drinking and I know my husband....there was definitely no way that there was sex going on for 2 hrs at a time!LOL
In fact, the main attraction of the LTA (besides the drinking) seemed to be the build up. The MOW was an experienced cheater,she had done this before and so she knew what kept the LTA going...and that was the build up... there would be months of emails before one of their work trips... all this sexual discussion and flirting about what everyone would do to each other....
so...months of build up for a few minutes of sex....but, again..in my husband's case it was also a total escape from reality due to the booze.

Sorry..I rambled away here.. what I wanted to say to you was that I do understand why you would need an understanding of what her time together with the OM was like.
I wish that the WS would figure out that they could save everyone so much grief if they would just stop stonewalling, take a deep breath and start with telling us the truth the whole truth.
And...where should they start? From the beginning...just tell us the story of the affair...
what happened... where were they? how were they feeling at the time? what were they experiencing? thinking...and then just tell us the story like a narrative instead of forcing the BS to ask questions and interrogate and pull out answers and information bit by bit.
Don't you think that would help you?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest-
IMHO do not tell your husband anything! Don't give him any advance notice of what your plans are.
He did not consult with you when he got involved with this OW and had OC. You have no reason to warn him in advance and give him time to plot against you.
And...like Miracle said...give yourself some peace through the holidays...then when the New Year comes you can start fresh.
I hate to say it but... before you say anything to your husband... you need to get all your ducks in a row!LOL

[This message edited by njgal480 at 8:13 PM, December 1st (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongish-
I know I have said this before but... you are only 5 months post d-day! You are still very much in the early stages of dealing with the infidelity. Even under the best circumstances...if your spouse is extremely remorseful, goes NC with the OW/OM immediately, is transparent with everything, and is willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage...even if all of this is happening...it still takes years for a BS to recover.
And, I agree with UKgirl on this... we never 'get over it' completely.
What I think happens is that in time we accept it happened and make a decision to reconcile.
But, it takes a lot of hard work to get to that stage.
In my opinion, what you have to do is basically rip open your marriage and reinvent it..start over in many ways.
That's what happened in my case...almost everything in our marriage is 'new'.
So, this Counselor saying that in her opinion you would never get over it based on what she is observing 5 months post d-day is very premature.
It does not sound as if she has had much experience dealing with infidelity. And, she definitely has not been reading the latest research on the subject.Everything that I have read says that it takes between 2-5 yrs to get over an affair....and I think the time frame for LTAs could be even longer.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:31 PM, December 1st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Evening Tribe,

Thanks for the feedback. I agree FWW has made significant progress. One would hope so at 14 months out. It still bothers me that she is holding information about her As back that she knows would be significant to me. She is not saying she forgets, just that she has mnoved on. Given some of what she did tell me about OM2(loud vocal orgasms from oral sex, orgasms from penetration only because he fit just right), it makes me wonder what deserves holding back. The obvious one is that BIL was a PA not "just phone sex".

It is not clear if her lack of sex drive is hormonal or related to CSAb. She has mentioned both. I guess the cause doesn't matter. It has been 16 days and counting. I spent 2005 - 2009 in an essentially sexless M. I am not doing that again for long.

I spoke with IC about my concerns today. He thought my concerns over her witholding information and not trusting what she says were reasonable given what I do know. As for the sex, he thinks needs can be negotiated out. We will see. He did help me sort through my thoughts, gave me some homework, and advice for dealing with older step-daughter (mostly I will not be present ever with her and FWW).

I am working on my lights for the boat parade this weekend. I am also taking DP's advice, 6 hours w/o a smoke and not a pack in the house.

Life in the Atsenaotie house is better than it has been for a long time. Not acceptable, but much better. I can still invest time.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:33 PM, December 1st (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:48 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura – show off! I only u se the ones on SI!

The obvious one is that BIL was a PA not "just phone sex".
This seems to be the driving issue behind the rest of your need to know. Would this be a deal breaker for you if the answer was yes? Have you already decided how you would react? Are you looking for a reason to leave the marriage, citing a PA with the BIL when currently you are feeling lack of sex is the breaking point?

This is a fundamental question for you and I assume she has constantly repeated it was “just” phone sex. It could be that it was. Our WS’s lied for years. They not only lied to us, they lied to themselves. And, over time, they repeat the lies they tell themselves until it appears to be truth. I often think they have this huge grey area which is neither truth nor fiction. A grey mish-mash of events, time, people and places that are there as components, but they cannot separate them out in a way that makes sense to us. And I do believe there are some WS’s who are able to block memory. That some things do not bear glancing at, let alone examining in detail. So they toss them into the trash, shred and mulch them until they disappear. And then it’s as if [the excruciating episode] never happened.

loud vocal orgasms from oral sex, orgasms from penetration only because he fit just right
I’m not sure what to make of this. Maybe some of the other ladies can chime in. This is just me. I don’t think I have ever had an orgasm, screaming or otherwise, from just the physical act. My head has to be in gear. Even when WH was at his most perfunctory in the act (being aggressive about it, emotionally disconnected, pure animal get his rocks off) I would often get my own orgasm by being at a certain place in my head. Sometimes I was angry about it and that would suffice, sometimes fantasise, sometimes make it about me. But whatever, these ideas about just getting to a woman’s G-spot or clitoris or doing it in a certain position guaranteeing a mind blowing orgasm simply aren’t true. The brain and (usually) emotional connection has to be there. The emotional bit might be the thrill of the illicit rather than anything emotional might have been the reason behind your WW's reaction to sex with OM. And the right fit – generally (tmi?) it isn’t what you have but what you do with it. Unless you are on the extreme outskirts of what would be “normal”. And I am supposing you are within the normal range. Basically, I am saying it is not about pure mechanics.

As for the current lack of sex, I don’t know what to suggest other than to keeping trying “non-threatening” physical intimacy. A hug or kiss or even arousal does not have to mean full sex.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:54 AM, December 2nd (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats

I saw this in the news this morning and had to post, I am glad our Laura lives in Australia, not Florida, so this was not her.

COOPER CITY, Fla. (AP) - A Broward County woman is in serious condition in the hospital after being hit by a car as she tried to help a duck cross the road.

The sheriff's office report says 44-year-old Laura ...

Thanks for your concern ats. You are such a gentleman also not mentioning the 10 yr age difference!

TMI

loud vocal orgasms from oral sex, orgasms from penetration only because he fit just right

Honey I think this is bullshit. I don't know why she said these things but.... come on....! I just don't believe it.

I think her lack of interest is probably hormonal + guilt. For us women sex and emotion are so closely tied. I can be very keen and he has only to say one wrong word and I switch off immediately. She may not be able to get into it because she knows what she has done to you and the guilt keeps intruding. She may also be starting menopause. Forget the quack who wants $300 - tell her to ask her doc for Ovestin. It is not a total cure but can help.

I have been going through menopause for last 6 yrs. During this time I was also suffering from a number of "plumbing" problems. It seems he gave me chlamydia some years ago which gave me PID and some other problems. This caused painful sex and so I wasn't keen (but still obliged!!!!!) This was his excuse for OW2 - the fact that I wasn't keen! (He never did have an excuse for OW1 who is probably the one who gave me chlamydia). I only found out the cause of my problems recently because when I first got sick and doc wanted to test for STDs I stupidly refused - said there was no need - never suspected him. I have had some treatment after dday when I was diagnosed with some limited success. The HB has been really good up till now but my drive seems to be dwindling. I am also (just the last couple of days) feeling really flat. Almost don't care and arousal has gone with this feeling. Hope this is temporary!!!

Anyway, we women on here should be able to help you understand her better. Maybe you should post some Qs on Wayward Side for women there and see if they can help.

JMHOs. Hope it was some help.

UKgirl

Laura – show off! I only use the ones on SI!

Yes I am a show off. Since I've seen pics of OWs I feel so much better about myself. They are all old and wrinkly. UGH. I'm 6' and thin (now) and they are all about 5' (and 2 out of 3 are chubby). I love to show off cause it makes me feel better about myself. Now you've hurt my feelings The shrugging smileys were a gift for you!!!

Fun

I know all about menopause. Have you tried Ovestin? Google . It has helped me a little.

HUGS to all
Laura

[This message edited by Laura28 at 6:03 AM, December 2nd (Thursday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:46 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Life has been a little hectic in the fnf household but not too busy to drop by and check in to see how everyone is doing, especially with the upcoming holidays. So many great posts and great advice and support being offered. It's such a heartwarming feeling to know there are all of you wonderful people to share our deepest feelings and fears with.
ATS - I don't know why but this morning I woke up thinking about your situation. I keep thinking about your W's traumatic childhood sexual abuse by her uncle and can't help but believe that this is at the core of her lack of interest in sex. I haven't done much reading on this topic but I have heard that this terrible experience can lead to promiscuous behavior, which seems to be the case during your W's A years.
So here's my thought for what it's worth:
Do you think it's possible that your W fears her sexual drive and by suppressing those feelings, being totally shut off from her own sexuality, she is protecting herself and you. In other words, if she allows herself to express her sexual side, she doesn't trust herself enough to remain A free??? Does this make sense?
Have the two of you ever gone for sex therapy? It would seem to me that a very good sex therapist would be a good idea for you both.
I also wanted to share this little story about my own experience as a child. When I was a little girl my mother always told me that making love was the most natural, beautiful experience between two people in love. I would often see my parents hugging, giggling, and being loving and affectionate with each other. I didn't quite understand "sex" but I knew that what I was witnessing was a thing of beauty and I wanted this for myself when I was all grown up.
Your wife on the other hand had a very negative, damaging experience as a child and her associations with sex are very different from mine and I'm guessing from yours as well.
Your needs are quite natural and you deserve to have them met. Unfortunately though, it would seem to me that your W's history is interfering, IMHO, and it may mean that you will have to muster a great deal of patience and love until your W can get to the bottom of this for you as well as for herself. As the others have said, I believe she is making great progress but I would think this last hurdle is the most difficult to overcome. (((ATS)))

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:56 AM, December 2nd (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats… I believe your wife when she says 15 minutes sex and the rest talking. It is fact that sex only takes a few minutes. Heck, what do you do the rest of the time. I was watching a Playboy channel a few months back and they were discussing this very issue… yep something like 95% sex reaches… in about 9 minutes… So yes, same with my W.. they would finish in under any hour! They would talk.. he would go fuck my wife, then leave… Simple as that. It is what it is brother. Heck, let’s face it straight on. Oh how I would love to F another women even today. I really would like to know what it feels like to feel different size, different shape, different moves… more frequent..one, two or three different women on a regular bases. It would be great! Mentally, I’m not so sure and I continue to never allow myself to pursue or be pursued. Sex is just that.. fun and yet so meaningful... at least to a man. Sex is very hard to understand for me... maybe it is suppose to be that way.

It is exactly the same for me. If my wife does not initiate sex with me right now, shuts me down, or tells me she does not want to make love to me… I start thinking so many negative thoughts. I dream about other woman wanting me, I dream about a new life starting with lust again and a new woman, I have thoughts my wife finds me unattractive, she misses OM, on and on. I start thinking about giving her possible consequences… I am going to leave her. It is exactly the issue I continue to have right now. My wife is great in loving me in about every area… except sex. In some ways, had she just had an emotional affair with no sex involved, I think I would be completely healed. For me, Sex somehow and someway is a man’s way feeling like he is worth the relationship. I fight this battle every day. My wife having sex with me makes me feel she really “wants” me… If not, she really does not “want” me. It weird to read about other women here on SI that have been the one’s who always initiate. It’s hard to know I can have what I want from some other woman in this world. I have a W that I cannot even remember her initiating in any form of a sexy way. After sex for me, I somehow have this very satisfied feeling both physical and mental. It is a sense of great satisfaction and places me at great ease for some reason.

This very issue may still cause me to change! I still may one day make a decision to stop loving my W. I have keep telling my W how meaningful this is to me… how good and positive it makes me feel when she makes love to me. How when I am rejected, it takes me some time to overcome these very negative feelings and thoughts. This very problem with my M right now too is likely why I have yet to heal. I take the rejection so poorly. I hold those thoughts inside. I fear telling my W the consequence of what she is doing to me because I don’t like to hear her side… She just does not have any lust, desire, for me at all. Period. And for some reason, I put great value on that in my mind. It is a battle with me. Woman just think different and I cannot understand it, I hear it, confused by it, because it is so meaningful to me yet not so for so many women.

So, deep inside, I tell myself it really may not be about that. I look at all the love my W gives me in so many other areas…. Gifts, quality time, some affirmation, physical with kisses every time we meet… sex?? The reality is that she has not turned me down so much this past year. It is a battle with her too. Even though she does not want to have sex with me, She does. Once we get going, it sometime really gets good. Do I think she really has desire to F my brains out? Ever? NO. Not ever. Sex always starts with me. Which always goes back to the…. I want a woman who wants to initiate it with me.. I want a woman to want to have sex and have some type of desire for me and I am 100% sure I can find a new partner that will want these things with me. This always leads back to a HUGE fact about a marriage.

FACT: Nothing is ever perfect

So you all know… You can make a choice to never bring up your spouse’s sins again. You can forgive, pardon… You can work hard and do all the desirables everyday with you current M. I am here to tell you my W and I both do it every day. I have a good M right now. I have sex every week… sometimes it is good, sometimes not… We treat each other very well and play time is fun, we talk, we work as a team to finish out the rearing of our children…
Yet every week, I still hurt over all this, I still think about it every day, I work hard to try and keep myself happy… I control the things I can control. I communicate to my wife how good it feels when she makes love to me… I do the desirables… I never accept something done to me that is not a desirable… I understand I feel what I feel. It is my life. I can change it when I want. And as time goes on, I am stronger, it is easier, I am happier...

So where does that leave me right now? I guess living life.

I need to read these about every month to remind me... I believe strongly in making things better by doing the below...

Studies that show what people in healthy marriages do:

- Shared Spirituality
- Have a support system of other couples who strongly believe in Marriage
- Frequently Affirm each other
- Spend quality and quantity time together
-Communicate and Listen easily and well
- Approach conflict constructively as a learning experience
- Have a mutually satisfying sexual relationship
- Are open to change
- Have s sense of commitment and faithfulness to one another
- Have unity based on shared values and goals
- Have a sense of Play and humor
- Have a deep sense of Trust
- continue to experience Forgiveness
- Value service to each other

These are Desire Builders

- Affirmation
- Positive attitude
- “Present and Future” Focused
- Communication
- Cooperative attitude
- Forgiveness
- Affection
- Positive “self Talk”
- Change
- Reliability
- Romance
- Prayer

I hope all you find a way closer to peace...

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:43 AM, December 2nd (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning Tribe,

The obvious one is that BIL was a PA not "just phone sex".
This seems to be the driving issue behind the rest of your need to know. Would this be a deal breaker for you if the answer was yes?

Yes UKgirl, I think that would be a deal breaker, especially this far out from dday. I appreciate that if she is not sharing truly significant facts she has painted herself into a corner. The longer she goes without telling me, the greater the betrayal. She has always insisted that BIL was not PA, and from his reactions when I confronted him I would guess no, but who really knows. If BIL was a PA I think it is not unlikely I might eventually find out if he ever has a "Come to Jesus" moment with his wife.

...just tell us the story of the affair...
what happened... where were they? how were they feeling at the time? what were they experiencing? thinking...and then just tell us the story like a narrative instead of forcing the BS to ask questions and interrogate and pull out answers and information bit by bit.
Don't you think that would help you?

njGal480, that is exactly what I have been asking FWW for. She did give me 4 pages at 7 months. I will not ask her questions because I do not know what to ask. Most of what she disclosed in the pages at 7 months I would not thought to haves asked specifically about. Two pages OM1 who lasted about 1 year, and a page and a half on OM2 who lasted over 2 years. I have asked a few times why the much longer and more recent A had less details and she said she was getting tired of typing and just cut to the "facts". These pages are where she told me about OM2's sexual prowess

Laura28,

Forget the quack who wants $300 - tell her to ask her doc for Ovestin. It is not a total cure but can help.

Thanks, I will look into the Ovestin and talk with her about it. I mentioned to IC that she recommended I get some books on Sex Abuse survivors. He seemed a little surprised by that, maybe he will pick up on that when she has IC tomorrow.

fnf, I agree that sex in my FWW's childhood was a terrible thing. Strange men dropping her passed out mother off on the porch, her mother coming down the stairs with the mailman (how cliché) when FWW come home from school, seeing her mother "making out" with neighbors at parties, being felt and French kissed by an uncle, a rape....

I guess I can understand if sex is not a comfortable part of her life, especially with the IC stirring everything up in her. Thing is my sex life has been less than satisfactory for most of the M, I really do not want to go back to that.

Hi Tryn, you may be right on the 15 minutes. One of FWW's complaints is I like to take my time. She has said that sex with the OM was calm, plain, and quick, and that she liked that. I just filter things through my perceptions, and I know id I was meeting FWW for an evening, night, or afternoon I would not be finished in 15 minutes.

We are doing very well as roommates and friends. The only big issues are her saying what she thinks I want to hear rather than being truthful, her stonewalling on any additional details (the fact she will not tell me makes me want to know more), and the almost complete lack of sex.

Well, back to wrapping lights for me. I am off work today to work on the lights for the boat.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok - just jumping in for completely selfish reasons because I might actually lose it if I don't vent this asap:

We started with new MC. 1st week I met alone with him. 2nd week H met with him. Nothing last week due to holidays. I have been having meltdowns all week long and it's been all I can do to
contain them with the hope that we had MC tonight & maybe that would help and MC just canceled! (After I made babysitting plans and everything - babysitting plans which required me to lie about where I was going btw, too.) So, now we have to wait another week. I am totally pissed! And, my H is happy as Hell and just wants to go out to dinner instead.
Arrgggh!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, December 2nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.

I have to say that at least your W is talking to you about the sex problem. Menopause changed things at my house. Things are better now. My W's gyno would not give her those shots. My W has had some breast cysts and a small history of breast cancer in the family, so no shots.

I do understand why you want to get answers to questions. I have many questions that I know will probably never be answered. I read a example of why we need to know about things. Suppose the police come to your door and tell you your W is dead. Of course you want to know how, when, why...etc. You are told that there is no point in discussing this any more. You have all the information you need, knowing anything else will not help or change what has happened. You just need to forget about it and move on. I know this is a extreme example but it sort of applies here.

tryn.

My W will initate. In fact she did last Saturday, Sun, Tues and Wed. I think she may be trying to kill me. It would be a perfect crime. "Well officer, the old fart kept after me for sex, I gave it to him and his heart could not take it. Now he is dead." Boo-Hoo.

njgal.

I agree that these Ws could save so much time and grief if they would just own up and tell the story. I think if they would spill the whole thing their remorse would be more believable. I have read that as long as there are secrets between WS and OP, many BS will feel like the A is in some small way still going on. I know I have felt that way at times. I think this is one of the reasons I am here so many years after D-day. Of course another reason I am still here is I really do like all the nice people here.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


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