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User Topic: Long Term Affair Part 21
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked & Numb: ((big hug))

I'm so sorry that you have been in false reconciliation all these years. That is heart-breaking. We all share your feelings as to how could you not have known, etc. Anyone living a double life like this is a master manipulater, an excellent liar. You trusted someone you should have trusted and he betrayed it. You did the right thing & he took advantage of it. It is sometimes hard to remember it, but it's a reflection upon them,not us.
It's a long road. We are here for you.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Shockedandnumb))

So sorry that you even had to find such a place as SI, but I tell you that the LTA group is very supportive and caring.

My sich is very similar to yours. My FWH had a 4 year A that he ended 1 year before I found out but then followed that up with two ONS's. She wanted to re-establish the A, FWH wouldn't so she contacted me. My DDay is recent, 6/10 so I"m still trying to process this mess.

I had an IC session yesterday and once again, said the same things you said...."How could I not have known?" But my FWH is a very good liar, just as I'm sure yours is.

Take a deep breath and give yourself a break every day. You are going through what might be the biggest trauma of your life and you need to be mindful of that. Take care of yourself, eat even when you don't feel like it and do whatever it takes to get a decent night's sleep.

There are many people here with good advice and backgrounds. And they are always willing to listen.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome shockedandnumb, we can be a chatty bunch here, though it has slowed some since iwam went on sabbatical. Glad you were able to notified the OW's BS.

I am floored at how I could not have known! It makes me question my own intelligence, instincts, sanity....

We all feel some of that. In 2007 I suspected FWW of an A and confronted her with phone records and behavior. She gas-lighted me and a well meaning friend "talked me down". I went in to IC for anxiety and "my issues". 2.5 years and 2 OM later we had our dday. The IC points out I did see the signs, I just did not trust my gut.

allgoodnamesgone, thanks for the quickie.

FWW is now stuck in Detroit.

As for kids reactions, my sich is a little different in that indirectly FWW turned them against me. For most of our M life, FWW has been sharing with her DDs and our DSs her frustrations with me and all of my short-comings. Her perceptions of me are changing now (for instance, she no longer blames me for driving us to the point of D), but the impact with the kids is done, and difficult to undo in the shortterm. Her DDs know about the A, one still "blames me" for making her M have A's. It is tempting to lay it all out for DSs, but I will not do that. I think they are smart enough to figure out what has happened in our house.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to our little corner of comfort and understanding. (((((Shockedandnumb)))))
I am floored at how I could not have known! It makes me question my own intelligence, instincts, sanity....
Well, so say all of us! It is quite astonishing how the LTA WS can live a double life so successfully for so long. But they do. So first and foremost, do not blame yourself. You gave your H trust, he abused it, you gave it a second time only to have it abused again. The fault is in him, not in you.

I have read your other thread and just want to pick out your lines:

He says he is moving forward and it is my choice to come with him or not. We will not talk of this A anymore
He may be moving forward, but it is without you. You get to call the speed of moving forward here and HE is the one who should be helping you every step of the way. And you WILL talk about the affair if you need to.
"The ball is in your court. You need to decide if I can come home and work this out or not."
The ball – there is no ball, nor is there any court. Currently, you are struggling just to get through the day, not play silly games. If you need him to stay away, then he stays away. But this is not a game and IF you are going to work it out, you need to TALK.
I will not stop until this is all out in the open, than, and only than, will I even consider what my next step is.

Finally, if you need this out in the open, give him a timeline to do – with explanations. Dig around, look at old diaries and calendars, remember significant events, etc and put those to him as a frame for him to work around. See what he comes up with. And – get yourself into IC if you are not already. MC is another matter. Doesn’t sound like he’s ready for anything other than rug-sweeping.

Take it one hour and one day at a time. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Don't make any decisions regarding your marriage unless you know deep down that you cannot live with this depth of betrayal. Sit and wait and see what happens. It's all about actions, not words.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow-can't say enough how awesome you all are.

Strongish-are you in a place where you have figured out how to believe what your H says? If they are such master liars, how will we ever know since I really did not know than. Is this even a possibility to trust someone so excellent at lying?

atsen-what is gaslighting? Couldn't find it in healing library.

UK-I don't even know what to think or even feel right now. I honestly do not trust myself to think properly. All that I was ever confident about in my knowledge, instincts, abilities, are all in question now. I don't trust them to help me make even a daily decision right now. Does this make any sense?
I am punishing myself for not seeing it.I know it is his fault and he is obviously a master of deception, but what am I? A fool. How can I trust my own gut anymore or should I just always be on guard? I do not want to live that way.

Thank you all so very much.


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 12:03 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked and numb --

I suggest you make a list of 10 people your WH respects who would be shocked by the A and then tell the bottom half of it -- save the most respected people as your "big guns". let him know you've told people and let him know as well who else you will tell. Be concerned, as in, this is not who I thought you were or who I think you want to be ... And don't tell his family -- they'll just side with him.

That might wake him up a bit.

Also, I'm going to answer this question you asked Strongish.

Strongish-are you in a place where you have figured out how to believe what your H says? If they are such master liars, how will we ever know since I really did not know than. Is this even a possibility to trust someone so excellent at lying?

I'm about a year out. I did a lot of research about trust back in August so bear with me for a few.

There are two kinds of trust: Calculus Based Trust and Identity Based Trust. Calculus Based Trust is sort of a quid pro quo -- for example, if I ask you to pick up dinner I know you're coming home with food because you don't want to be hungry either. It's a series of judgment calls about whether or not a person can be trusted based on the perspective of the beneift to them of being trustworthy vs. the benefit obtained by cheating and the risk of getting caught.

Identity Based Trust is a function of a close personal relationship. It's the idea that you have common goals and want to at least not impede and hopefully advance each others individual goals as well. It could be spouses, business partners, siblings, parent/child or even close friendships. Both kinds of trust are broken by infidelity, but THIS is the one that hurts. The Calculus Based trust is more cynical -- that's the part of you that says, well, women get screwed over by their baby daddies every day of the week, guess that guy's a write-off, whereas the Identity Based Trust has you lying poisoned like Juliet, or reaching for Obi-Wan Kenobi plaintively stating with your last breath: "I know there is still good in him ...."

ANYWAY -- I felt like I would never trust anyone again with that identity-based trust. But in the past year, I've come to realize that there are MANY people in my life I can and do trust that way. So, it's heartening to come to that realization. BUT -- I am only capable of having Calculus Based Trust with my WH. Which is sad, because it does make me feel alone in the world -- but I have 6 other people who depend on me for the welfare (my 4 kids and 2 foreign students) and I don't have the luxury of truly risking it all on such a bad bet (because, lets face it, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior) -- SO I DO trust some things my WH says -- when I know that what he is saying is to his own benefit and that other alternatives would be less attractive to him. Otherwise, there's a big "or not" in the back of my head.

So, the short answer is that, no, your WH can't ever really be trusted again -- and there's really no way to know if you'll know if he's still at it. If I had to guess -- I would say that my WH continued his A with OW for about 4 or 5 more months after Dday but that it's now at least on a break. That would be based on my gut. And the fact that shortly after that time period someone totaled my car and then sank my 24' boat.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shockedandnumb,

Gaslighting is lying and mis-directing by the WS with the intent of making the BS doubt his own memory and perceptions. In my instance FWW went on and on about how they were "Just Friends" (who knew there was a book entitled that), that I was an a##hole and trhat is why I did not know what friendship was like, denial and excuses for time gone, new clothes, workign out, etc.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3-thank you. That makes a lot of sense and you are very eloquent with your wording. I appreciate your taking that time to detail that out for me.

So what I have gathered from it is, (and tell me if I am whacked, because remember I am questionable of my own logic today: )

I think that in order to have a continued relationship with WH, I need to accept that I will never fully trust him again in that way. Which would mean that my marriage would never be truly secure and fulfilling to me. No matter how much I love and/or want it...

Even if he truly follows through with his counseling and truly wants to change, that will never change my views of his trustworthiness?

Sigh~

Thanks atsen for the definition-That is totally been a part of my life for a very long time. It is not happening now though. Although OW is totally doing that, my WH is seemingly an open book right now.

After yesterday, I am wondering if she will retaliate in some way although I have no 24' boat to sink!!


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was thinking about Booger Bear for some reason today and my curiosity got the best of me... do a search for her.. she left her H and divorce. She sounds really good. When she posted here, she was so afraid too…

ShockedandNumb… I am glad you found this board.. My wife had an 8 year A. It took me over a 18 months to start coming out of my severe depression. And too, my W would say things like, “she just cannot talk about it” but that did no good… It just comes out. Your H is controlling. He controlled you to believe a false reality. Make a new boundary for yourself right now.. I will not be married to a man that cannot take 100% full responsibility for mistakes he makes. Your H made the mistake. Marriage is fidelity. PERIOD. He is going to have all kinds of excuses and these excuses will make you feel like it is your fault in some way. Don’t allow it. Your H cannot, and did not, effectively communicate what was missing in the marriage. If you did happen to ignore it, then he needed to leave you first, and then find someone else. That is the right thing to do. It falls 100% on him. Please don’t think you played any part it his decision. He hid, it was a secret, and therefore, you could not possibly have known the real consequence if he was not getting what was missing. Nope.. the real truth is his pure selfishness and greed. He was loving you in so many ways and at the same time loving another… who the heck wouldn’t enjoy all those great feelings of lust again? I bet you felt so good when you and your H first met. Who would not want those feelings again? But marriage is just a fraction of that with romance and lust at the beginning.. Marriage is about commitment, partnership, kids, family.. Fidelity! Your H lost his way in life and lived that dual life. Don’t you dare accept any responsibility for someone else’s choices.

Your H will be lucky if you are able to forgive and somehow find a way to pardon him. Not too many betrayed spouses have that ability. It takes a long time. It does take years.

So all I can add to what all the others have said and I agree with them… For you to R, your H is going to need to somehow fully understand the evilness of his sin, truly have remorse, take all the shit you are about to smear all over his face… all the while you let go of the fear and learn how to forgive, decide/choose to love him again… decide to trust too...

Today, 26 months post dday, I feel pretty good. Oh but how the road was full of crevasses

You do this and it will help you...
- Read everything about affairs
- Read about forgiveness
- Read about relationships
- Get help from a trusted friend to vent
- Exercise
- Learn to meditate with music.. prayer.. walks…
- Try and work toward independence.. a job to support yourself…etc…
- Might look at antidepressants (AD)
- Look at third party help too.. MC and IC.. Retrouvaille.

Yes, OW's H needed to know the real woman he was married to.

I so wish you peace soon...

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:23 PM, November 19th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will not be married to a man that cannot take 100% full responsibility for mistakes he makes.

This will be posted on my make-up mirror for a daily reminder. Thank you for your incredible strength. All of you.


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shock.. You can forgive.. but don't live with someone that cannot understand right from wrong.. Once your H understands his error from his heart... only then he can show remorse. It took my wife 3 months to really see it...

Never settle for a partner that does desire destroyers.. boundaries protect your own happiness... protect yourself from people like that...

These are Desire destroyers
- Criticism
- Withdrawal
- Negative attitude
- Continueing Negative behaviors
- No communication
- No reliance on God or lack of spirituality
- Holding a grudge’
- Name calling
- Negative “self talk”
- Disrespect
- “Must win” Attitude
- Living the past

and in turn.. do everything to live a life not doing desire destroyers...

Happiness can come again!

[This message edited by trynhard at 1:35 PM, November 19th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
strongish
♀ Member
Member # 29259
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

are you in a place where you have figured out how to believe what your H says? If they are such master liars, how will we ever know since I really did not know than. Is this even a possibility to trust someone so excellent at lying?
Right now, no and I don't think I will ever again have the complete faith I had in him 6 months ago. I desparately want to, but there will always be a part of me that wonders if I'm being made a fool of again.

Tribe - I did it. I filled out the attorney engagement letter, the intake form (6 pages about our financial sich) and the retainer check. I feel so sick. That my life has come to this is breaking my heart. My hope is two-fold...that this will give me some feeling of self-worth and that I'm standing up for myself and that FWH will realize how HUGE of a mess he has made. I'm sick of the minimizing and rug-sweeping. Of course seeing me as an emotional wreck hasn't done it, so maybe a few thousand $$ sent to an attorney will wake him up. I have always been the kind of person to give 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances. I talk a big game but my family (H & kids) have always been my weak spot and I can't stand for them to be mad at me. This is a huge step for me as I know spending money for a post-nup is driving FWH batty. I had to call my BFF before I actually put it in the mailbox to give me that last push but I did it.

FWH comes home late this afternoon. He's been nice on the phone and I really don't think he's going to be angry but I do think he'll be surprised that I actually went through with it. I always thought that he was the smarter one, the stronger one, the more intelligent and mature one in our M. Come to find out it's really me that is all those things. But that's not the role I wanted in my M. I didn't want to have to be his mother and tell him how to fix the problems he's created. Like UKgirl I don't want to have to TELL him that he shouldn't friend 23 year old waitresses on FB or over and over that I need to hear that he is sorry and is grateful for being given a 2nd chance. I've told him these things multiple times and yet days go by without my hearing it.

Shocked...you are very early on this journey. Don't try to figure it all out at once. I made the decision not to make any major decisions for 6 months after DDay. While I'm still haunted by questions of what I should do, even in the 4 months since my DDay there have been changes in FWH, not as many as I would like or need to see, but he still has 2 months until my self-imposed deadline. Then, like ats I may extend that or not depending on the sich then. The atty. letter I spoke of is to come to a mutual post-nuptial agreement. FWH has said that he will sign one and I want to get his signature while he is feeling guilty or as guilty as he's likely to feel. There is no alimony in my state but I intend to ask for 4 years of spousal support (basically alimony) to supplement what I could make on my own. I figure he spent 4 years on his A, he can spend 4 years literally paying for it. He has said that he would always take care of me, but I think we know that past behavior tells me that I can't depend on that. This is a very concrete example to him of how little I trust him and his "words."

m3 - I did tell one of my FWH's closest friends who basically told him he was being an a$$. This friend supported me 1000% and told FWH that if he had to choose between us he would choose me. I think FWH was taken aback that our friend would come right out and say that. It is a pet peeve of mine that some/most people don't want to get "involved" so they won't say or speak up when they feel like someone is making a huge mistake. We all must be civil you know? Well, the two mutual friends that knew about the A and didn't tell me or come down hard on FWH are no longer friends of mine. I don't ever care to see them again. The condoned FWH's lies and I won't have it.

Thanks for the support Tribe. Going to take a Xanax and try and nap before I have to pick up FWH from the airport. It could be a long night.


Posts: 490 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe,

FWW is back from her trip; her last leg was delayed, but not cancelled. I am just writing this out to do some processing internally.

We live close to the airport, but rather than wait until she was ready and then swing through arrivals to pick her up as normal, I parked and went in to meet her. I told myself I was doing it to be nice as a surprise, but realized once there I half-expected to see her walking up from the gate with an OM. She didn't. I could still imagine them walking up together though, saying their good-byes as she got ready to return to her hateful husband and him his cold and uncaring wife

It is really nice to have FWW home. I feel more at peace. During her A-time I enjoyed when she was gone and was at peace while she was gone. Then, it was sad to have her back home and have to deal with the difficulties of me being an a##hole . This trip has been the opposite.

She usually takes Xanax for travel, and anytime I have picked her up she has been a little buzzed by the Xanax. Not today, no indication at all. All of her descriptions of time together with OM that were not in the middle of a day (travel together, staying at hotel, evenings together when I was out of town) she mentioned alcohol and Xanax. I am probably over thinking this, but I see an indication she was not at ease when with the OM for extended periods.

Hey trynhard, good to see you are still alive. Some of us have begun to worry that you and iwam had run off somewhere together.

ShockedandNumb, trynhard has good advice. He helped to jump start me when our R was flagging. FWW and I are probably 3 -6 months ahead of where we would be in R if not for the advice tryn gave to me last spring.

Tribe, I will add another opinion to how our WS's were so good at hiding their A's. At least in my case, FWW has "manipulated" people in her environment since she was a child. With an alcoholic mother, she learned to read people every well and to control, to the extent she could, the emotional environment. She used to say that anytime she came home she would do an assessment to see what the feelings were in the house so she could prepare. Our WS's also know exactly which buttons to push to "make" us feel good, or become angry and deflect us off the topic. Looking back there were a couple of times I know I was close to discovering FWW's A and she became belligerent and there was a big fight. A suspicions all forgotten as I began to argue I was not an a##hole or that I had done my share of household chores.

Allgoodnamesgone,

H came back in a better mood after MC…

DS15 is going with friends this evening. FWW and I are going to a favorite informal waterfront bar for supper tonight.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ShockedandNumb
♀ Member
Member # 30151
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh wow-Good luck tonight strongish. That is a VERY good idea by the way. Isn't it legal if you just write down your post-nup and have him sign it and get it notarized?? Wouldn't that be a legal document usable in the event of a D?

I better start studying, maybe a little too naive here..


D-Day#1-11/2005--me-8 weeks pregnant
D-Day#2 11/17/2010 same OW-LTA
BS(me)44
WS(him)42 yrs old.
4 daughters/19+ yr marriage
Nothing hurts more than realizing he meant everything to you, but you meant nothing to him....

Posts: 407 | Registered: Nov 2010
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

strongish, good for you completijng the paperwork. I know it was not a thing you enjoyed.

Well, the two mutual friends that knew about the A and didn't tell me or come down hard on FWH are no longer friends of mine. I don't ever care to see them again. The condoned FWH's lies and I won't have it.

I have this issue with family. Both of FWW's DD knew of the A. FWW even introduced the younger DD to the OM. The younger DD ALWAYS supported me and the M when FWW would talk about OM. FWW was suprised that DD did not support her. Younger DD even tried to clue me in one night during a visit. That was one of the times FWW went off on an anger attack at me when I said it looked like she was having an A.

FWW's sister also knew of the A, but not FWW's phone and texts with BIL (sister's H). Neither older DD nor sister said anything to me for the years of the A. They would visit at my house, eat meals with us, and never say a thing. I understand that blood is thicker than water, but I will never consider either of them a friend of the M, or of me.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to LTA ShockedandNumb. You are in the first horrible stage of just surviving. Focus on you and getting by day to day. Decide not to make any life changing decisions for at least 6 months or more.

Dealing with whether you can ever trust a WS ever again is the hardest thing. The only thing my WH said to me was to the effect that although he lied about the A didn't mean he lied about EVERYTHING he ever said.

We weren't fools. We were gaslighted and we were committed to our marriages, so much so that we chose to put our trust in our WS's instead of our gut. Many of us are saying that our gut was telling us that something was not quite right. We felt it. We shared these feelings with the one we trusted the most, and of course we were gaslighted. We chose to believe the gaslighting because to believe the alternative was too horrible. We may have tried to talk to WS, but were reassured all was fine and then we talked ourselves into believing other explanations for our feelings of unease, unhappiness, and resentment.

This is the important detail. We were feeling unhappy but we did not decide to deal with it by having an affair. We were able to look beyond our immediate unhappiness and knew the boundaries. We knew that by having an affair would not just relieve us temporarily, but affect the whole family and our marriage.

Another thing I am realizing too, is that my WH didn't control me or the sitch by acting mean, but the opposite. He was overly sweet and indulgent. He dangled pretty carrots and distracted me. He said all the pretty words I wanted to hear, was affectionate, etc.

This really hit me a few weeks ago when I was talking to him on that stupid Iphone that has video chat. I was angry about the "rocking chair" incident and in the middle of it, WH starts telling me how nice my hair looks!! How pretty I am, how much he loves me. I used to fall for this all the time!!!

So, Shocked (we tend to shorten our names with "nicknames") you were not a fool. You were a trusting person. A good person.

About trusting? I think it depends on how the WS acts and how much remorse and work that they do.

Strong: I am so proud of you!!! WOW!!! Good for you! I know this is filled with emotions, but, believe me, you are doing the right thing! You might receive some flak from WH, but just stay as calm as you can and tell him that this is just "insurance". Tell him that you feel very very strongly that if you both do you best to R (including IC/MC, etc) and if it works, wonderful, but if it doesn't and you both know you tried your best, you can each leave the marriage with mutual respect and the hard part about dividing the assets as put out in the post-nup is already done.

Ats, I'm glad that WW is home and all is well. Have fun tonight,

Tryn, so good to see you. In one way I am happy for you that you are on an "SI diet", but selfishly, we do miss you!! I'm glad that you are stopping in here and there checking in on us!!

{{{{tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((shocked)))))

welcome to our little corner of si, and i am so so sorry that you need to be here and so happy that you did indeed find si, you are safe here....and most important you are not alone in this pain or this experience...

ok take a deep breath, you have had so much overwhelming issues to contend with in such a short amount of time....so keep breathing, and take care of yourself...

do not make any decisions yet, you need to regroup and gain your bearings right now on a daily basis...it the beginning of all this mess comes information sometimes daily, information that is so hurtful, damaging and life altering...so making any decisions for at least 6 months is a no no...your frame of mind cannot take it all in...of course there are immediate dealbreakers that would need to be addressed for your own sake....but make sure that they are indeed dealbreakers...not so good to tell him that "x" is a dealbreaker then it turns out not to be.....he needs to know that now more then ever "you shall say what you mean and mean what you say"....very valuable when you "DO" make your new boundaries.....

you have recieved excellent advice from the "tribe" here ....

take it one step at a time, one day at a time, sometimes its is by the minute....

and most important...you do not do anything you are not comfortable doing.....like sex....

and i didn't see if anyone defined gaslighting so here it goes:

Q: What is "Gaslighting"? Submitted by nandav
A: This term is taken from the movie "Gaslight" where the husband (Charles Boyer) tries to make his wife (Ingrid Bergman) think she is going mad by convincing her what she thinks she is seeing isn't real. When the WS is either caught or suspected, he/she may try to convince the BS that they are not seeing what they think they see or that something didn't happen, even though everything points to the fact that it DID happen. We have heard stories where the BS has even walked in on the WS and OP "in the act", yet the WS still denies that anything was going on. It is an effort on the WS part to completely deny even the most obvious evidence, and to make the BS feel that they must be seeing things. Sometimes, probably because the BS is so desperate to NOT believe what they are seeing, the strategy works. This may be part of "the fog", when the WS is not ready to accept responsibility for what happened. Or in some cases, the unrepentant WS may do this so that they can continue having the A.


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood: yay, i am glad that your ws seemed content with the new mc...


strong: i am so so proud of you hon, this is a big step for you...and can be a big step for your marriage if he is smart enough to see that trusting in you is a good first step to you trusting in him....


now speaking of trust:

trust can indeed be earned...it will never ever be the blind trust any of us ever freely gave before, it will be different, but it will still be trust....and it will have had to be earned every long step of the way.....it takes an enormous amount of work on the part of the ws....every word needs to be truth, every inconsistancy needs to be shown to be trustful, every action must be based in truth, transparency and 100% honesty, even when the truth hurts......the ws must work hard and trust the bs with their innermost truths and hurts....trust must come from the ws for the bs before the bs can trust the ws.....

if you think about it, how can you trust someone who won't trust you with all of who they are...including their worst truths....

the ws who insists on continuing the lies is the ws who doesn't get it, and until the bs feels that the ws "gets it" the bs will never ever feel safe in trusting the ws.....

and remember it won't be the same trust, it will be different, but it will be "trust".....


(((tribe)))


hey tryn good to see you

and ats: are you trying to say that i am the "chattiest".....does it get me an award or something..


nell: it sucks when we see what our ws's attitudes both before and after does to our kids....we want so much for our kids, and when they hurt, we hurt....and is sucks that we cannot protect them and make it all better and right...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats.

I am confused. Your statement about tryn and miracle seemed to imply that if he had run off with her she would have killed him. I do not really think that she is that kind of a girl. Miracle is not a killer.

Shocked.

Welcome to the LTA house. This place is full of some of the best people you could ever hope to meet.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, November 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow, thanks dip for spotting that....i had to go back and reread....

killer- me

.....nope, i didn't even get the tazer gun i wanted for my birthday, so i cant even zap him.....

and no runnin off with tryn for me...i don't do married men...including the one i am married too!!!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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