Long story short:
My H is a selfish a-hole. He will NEVER get it. NEVER.
Completely non-A related, but the manner in which the issues were "discussed" still showed the same disrespect and inability to see when he is doing something wrong or improvident or to actually listen when I'm trying to show him.
Edited to remove some more curses.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 3:24 PM, November 16th (Tuesday)]
UKGirl - We may be living parallel lives here. The attorney that I spoke with said that she has done several post-nups and that it was good to do it while the WS was still feeling guilty. A D takes so long that the feelings of guilt start to wear off, friends tell them that they weren't really THAT bad and that AP was really HOT, and then the WS gets their own attorney and then the BS gets taken for a ride. So, since FWH said that he would sign such a document we'll see if he gives me a hard time about it or not.
I don't even know how to tell him about the conversation with her...."Oh yeah, dear, after I finished the laundry I spoke to an attorney about protecting myself from you. So, how was your day?" Sad and surreal...
(((allgood))) Hope your day gets better.
[This message edited by strongish at 4:48 PM, November 16th (Tuesday)]
I know that you feel bad about doing that, but remember he is the one that put you in this position. Listen to your attorney. They are pretty smart about these things. I noticed that your attorny is a female. Those girl lawyers are so very smart.
Allgood & m3.
No I was not sucking up with that last statement. I was just speaking the truth. And Allgood. You should have left all the curses in you post. I think some here enjoy things like that.
Hugs to the tribe.
Anyhoo - thanks for the hugs y'all. I'm actually fine sitting here at my desk delaying going home.
I tried to do a post-game wrap up with my H to do some damage control, see where we went wrong throughout the day and get us back on track. His sarcasm and his attitude that nothing was wrong did not help, sad to say. So, I've told him that's it for today, I'll talk to him in the morning. And, I mean it. Sometimes there is just no talking to him and this is one of those occasions.
Anyhoo - Stronish if you want to do this & WH has agreed - go for it. I understand how you are feeling, even the feeling that you are doing something "wrong". And, I assume that is because it just seems so inconsistent to be in a marriage without trust. But, that's what it is for the time being.
Made me think - I'm not sure my reasons for staying are sound.
They are based in fear.
What if I don't find anyone out there that's right for me? What if I miss my H after we've split? Will I be just as unhappy when I have to work like an animal just to maintain my current standard of living? Will my kids be ok?
As I was running thru my H's phone today, I seriously was hoping to find OW's number. Just like last night, I caught myself kind of hoping he would say OW name during sex- then I wouldn't have to make the choice.
Idk. I'm rambling.
I'm sure if it actually happened I'd be livid. (In fact if I ever fail to log in here for more than 2 days, you can probably assume NC has been broken and I've been carted off to either jail or a mental instiution.)
I know I could walk away now and it wouldn'b be my fault, but I'd still have the "what ifs...".
Maybe I will be able to think more clearly after I have some brownies.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:11 PM, November 16th (Tuesday)]
then I wouldn't have to make the choice
Allgood, I find myself thinking the same thing. If it was just me, no one else to consider, no kids, dog, in-laws, then I would be gone already. But it's not just me, it is the kids, etc. but I wonder the same things...will I ever be happy? My standard of living will go from very nice to fair and I'll have to go back to work full-time just as I was hoping to be able to stop working all together and enjoy the empty nest.
At this point, I'm feeling the pressure that if we don't stay together it's MY fault, after all FWH is "trying." That's all anyone will hear, they won't hear or see how he keeps minimizing my pain and intellectualizing the R. He talks about "outcomes" and whether my thinking about OW every day is "serving me well." Criminy! Who talks like that to their wife?? That's the only way my FWH knows how to talk anymore...using $1 words that are clinical and unemotional.
I feel for you...I really do. Keep posting so we can see that you're not in the slammer!
Leaving a M that is not working or no longer meets our needs is ALWAYS an acceptable option. After all, isn't that what many of us wish our WSs had done BEFORE having an A?
After an A we even more so have a get out of the M free card. The oft quoted line is 2 - 5 years to heal from the A, so we stay for a year, 2, more? waiting to see if it is time we need to heal. Shirley Glass says healing in a year is unreasonable, at least two years. So we wait and see. I continue to see more forward progress than back-sliding from FWW so I am hopeful, but it is slow and I am not going to be on hold forever.
I have a very uneasy feeling lately.
My H NEVER cooks
This might be the problem...my H doesn't cook! I need a man that cooks. I'm tired!!!
...and whether my thinking about OW every day is "serving me well."
I used to get lines like that from FWW when I was obsessed with OM. She got really pissed one time when I replied that I thought I was doing better with thinking about him everyday than she did, because I did not yet feel like meeting him for sex.
...he’d do anything if it would make me happy and see how much he loved me.
Would he quit attending no spouse reunions and meeting with old girlfriends for you?
nofun, I really think most of us have already had a closet full of shoes drop. Do we really need one more? But I do understand the feeling and share that feeling sometimes.
Dip and I both cook, we will need to inquire into DP's culinary abilities.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 10:18 PM, November 16th (Tuesday)]
way back when in 1999, alot happened in my life...alot of not good stuff with pfm...
we sold our home, while waiting for the closing and and waiting to get into our new home....that was when we were fighting constantly, he became the monster, i became the "hole"...there was some heavy duty thinkin on my part to just end the marriage, i was unhappy, he was obviously unhappy, the house sale was going through....it would have been so clean, except that i had 3 small kids....and i still loved the bastard....i knew that if i did divorce him then i would not be able to look my kids in the eye and tell them when they asked that i did everything possible to keep their family together.....
so i stayed....and here i am 10 years later and i find out that i was a "hole" because he was in love with another, i find out that he has never been faithful for a single day in my entire relationship, i find out that he loved this other woman the entire time....i find out that he hid thousands of dollars from me with his parents help...i found out so much unbelievable overwhelming stuff.....
and you know what...i have no regrets for my decision that i made back then....not one...i know i did the right thing with what i knew at the time....i could honestly when the time comes be able to look each kid in the eye and NOW i can say i did everything possible.....i did the right thing for my kids, i cannot and do not regret that for one minute....
do i wish i knew all i know now...of course...but that doesn't matter...because
WE CANNOT CHANGE THE PAST, BUT WE CERTAINLY CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE......
remember "what if's" are not productive and are trying to change the past or create a future when you have no control over anyone but you....
instead of what it, live with "this is now"
live in the present always planning for the future and remembering that you cannot control anyone or anything but yourself......
Allgood and Strongish, I totally understand what you are saying. I kept saying to myself, "If WH does one more thing...."
Well, he kept on doing more and more things.
All I can say from experience with my first divorce (he wanted it, not me) is that you will still have to heal whether WH is with you or not. In addition, there is a lot of pain to process with a divorce even if you want one.
Allgood, you have young children. It will be very hard dealing with those 4 young ones on your own. I know that an xH should have visitation, but what ends up happening, is that they get on with thier own life and see the kids less and less and you take on more and more.
Right now, you are grieving, and sorrowing. It is not a good time to make a decision. Make lists for all the pros and cons, and do as Miracle says take the path of least regret for now. Perhaps you might want to give yourself another timeline, like see how it is in 6 months and reevaluate?
I know where I am headed. Just have to gather those ducks and put on their bullet proof vests. I know I'm procrastinating. I know I'm stuck and am not doing much about it. Cutting my baby steps into even smaller ones.
I realize the need to stay if I am not certain. I realize I talk a good game, but I will not forget that I was unable to back up my self-imposed dealbreaker when my H broke NC a year ago. I attribute this to my ongoing conflict between being rational and logical v. emotional.
Alright, I'm going to try to see if I can fall asleep again. Fun stuff.
You ARE young. I do not need to make you sound young.
Your friend that is engaged. Did her first two M end in D or for other reasons. If they ended in D, was she excited and happy the first two engagements? I have seen several who M, D, & M, D, and they are always so excited before M and so down during the D. It always made me fear the D. I will admit that watching them during the courtship did look like fun. Of course that is one reason why the LTA is so appealing, it is a courtship, not a M.
Hindsight is 20-20. I probably should have left my W after D-day #1. Would I have had a better life than I have now? Who knows. I would not have had a D-day #2 with her, but I could have had several other problems with other women. What if, what if????
I think DP told about a duck meal that he cooked one or two pages back. From his description, his culinary abilities are far above my basic skills.
You need a cook? It sounds like you may have the munchies. Too many trips to the garage?
Good advice from you. Now get out there and gather those ducks! Please.
Hello mother hen. Should I change that to mother duck? Notice I did not try to change it to mother fucking duck. It just did not sound right.
Ah, Dip, the "should'ves and could'ves" can drive me crazy too. and the "what ifs". I guess the only time the "what ifs" can be beneficial is NOW looking toward the FUTURE. That is where I am starting to try to focus, although the clamor and the chaos of the past keeps making me want to turn around and look at it.
M3: Thank you for the update on Baby Paddy. She sounds soooo adorable!!Give her a hug from all her "aunts" and "uncles" here at SI!!
The Pharaoh had three important jobs during Mass this morning. I was very pleased WH made time to go and he and I had coffee between dropping The Pharaoh and The Pasha off and the Mass time. Very fun -- we did some Christmas shopping strategery.
As usual -- the homily seemed to be talking straight to me. Maybe I'm just egomanical? Anyway, a very nice experience. I've been considering attending daily Mass -- might be a good idea for me.
Allgood -- you cannot change him. You must change you. If you change you, he is forced to change too. Just a thought.
Miracle -- hi! You are right, the past is the past. This was part of the homily today. The priest was giving examples of hurts and one of his specific examples was "we may not have been loved the way we wanted to be loved." Verbatim. He went on to say the only way to heal these wounds is with love. No gossiping. No malicious words. Reaching out to others with love. I think that's beautiful. If you can't or shouldn't reach out to your WS with love, you could at least be neutral with your WS. Treat him/her like an acquaintence you find likeable but don't know much about. And reach out to others who you know deserve it with great love.
Dip -- gators leaving you alone?
Ats -- Well spoken. How are you holding up during WW's trip?
Honest -- If you're at a bookstore one day, read Duck for President (it's a kids book) Might inspire you. It will at least make you laugh and think I'm a nut.
Strongish -- I haven't had much to say to you -- your pain is so new and raw and I'm just snapping out of mine but not sure I can help. But, I guess what I want to say is: of course you would be gone if there weren't so many ties, but there are. I fervently wish I'd caught him right away when I had only one child, and was still in my twenties.
This is one of the worst things about the infidelity -- it's that many of your options were taken away from you. There are three lies in infidelity -- the sex, the lies to cover up the sex, and the infidelity itself. I want to have sex with other people to -- so at the end of the day, the sex doesn't actually hurt me that bad. I don't mind the cover-up lies per se, because you can't keep having the sex without them, so they're part and parcel. What hurts/pisses me off/ etc. is that my options were taken away from me because I was operating with a false set of information. My life could have, and most likely would have taken a completely different direction. As it is doing now. It's wasted time, and it's also the knowledge that when my "life partner" makes decisions about his life, he does not take my feelings into account or have my best interests at heart. He's got the heart of an abuser. It's really sad. I'm detached enough now that I kind of don't care what he thinks about anything -- so the (verbal) abuse has stopped, but he's the kind of person who, if you give him an inch, he'll take a mile.
So, it's important to focus on what is best for your kids. Because the truth is, in life, as adults we sometimes have to live with the consequences of our actions/mistakes and even of accidents completely beyond our control. None of us got our first choice here -- maybe not even our 5th, or 10th -- we made a bad judgement call in marrying our WS's. But, like Miracle said, we did the best we could with the information we had at the time. If your WH will straighten up and fly right, be a good parent and a good example for his children, and if you can stand to be around him -- your kids are best off in a two parent home. But that's a lot of ifs. And you don't know where it's going yet.
Shirley Glass says healing in a year is unreasonable
live in the present always planning for the future and remembering that you cannot control anyone or anything but yourself
I realize I talk a good game
I'm really struggling with that one. On one hand I honestly don't think he's going to "get it" until his nose is pushed into it. Kind of like you do to a puppy that piddles on the carpet. His life is just to easy right now. All he has to do is listen to me whine and then he goes about his day. I don't mean to say that he is cavalier, but he really doesn't get how HE has to make some huge changes in his attitude. He keeps talking about how I need to get in to see the MC/IC more often, like I'm the one with the problem, not him! He compartmentalized me when he was having the A, now he's compartmentalizing the A in order to minimize his guilt and responsibility. It was only about 50 timnes that he could have been with OW!!
it's also the knowledge that when my "life partner" makes decisions about his life, he does not take my feelings into account or have my best interests at heart
M - this is really the crux of why we cannot trust our WS any more. They have shown that they don't really consider us "partners", after all one would consult a "partner" about a life-changing decision. Or is it just that they don't consider it a life-changing decision to violate their M vows? Maybe it's a little of both.
Tribe - I feel like I'm caught between two opposing forces - one side is telling me that my feelings are valid and completely normal (that's you!) and then the other side is telling me that I need to get over this and move forward, not look behind (that would be FWH). I BELIEVE that what I'm feeling is normal, but it takes so much energy to have to keep telling FWH that over and over it wearing me thin. I had breakfast with a friend yesterday that I could no longer put off. She took one look at me and said that I either had cancer or my H was having an A. Since I don't have cancer she figured out the rest. I don't want you to think that I'm wasting away, but there are days I think that I'm losing my mind. Tell me again that this is normal? Tell me again that I'm being unrealistic in looking for changes in FWH so soon.
I sound whiny, don't I? Sorry. Need to find those panties...
[This message edited by strongish at 10:35 AM, November 17th (Wednesday)]
Tell me again that I'm being unrealistic in looking for changes in FWH so soon.
Strongish, everyone's path is different, but here is a brief recap of my timeline since dday:
dday 10/5/09 she chose to come clean on DS15's b-day, thanks FWW
first 3 months were numb, FWW and I both have to work or I look at my journal to remember anything from that period.
January - February (months 4 & 5) - HB, life was good, this A stuff is not so bad, we will have this licked by the end of a year
Months 6 and 7 - more drinking, anger and rage starting, throwing things. at the end of month 7 FWW gives me the real details about her As
Months 8-10 roller coaster
Month 11 she broke boundaries and I moved out.
Months 12 I moved back in, she is in IC, we are working on R
so, a year was not enough. FWW has engaged and is accepting of MC and IC, but still many here will remember me bemoaning that she was always a day late and a dollar short. Who knows how long it will take and if we will make it. FWW has many personal issues on top of the A croap we need to work through.