He said its due to guilt but dang doesnt it just rub salt in the wounds! Im having major issues with it.
I dont know if its that Im not as stimulating as a secret affair/porn fantasy or if its really his guilt. Suddenly he doesnt "feel" much with a condom on too. How did he feel with a condom on with them?
Im not sure how mens mental state affects the umm... erection. He gets them, then goes soft. Not always, and less as time goes on, but still! I just cant stop being hurt by this.
I think that separation always adds a level of difficulty to R. Throw in a MIL who doesn't/hasn't respected his decision to be supportive of you and your kids, it is leaving him with constant challenges to any decision he makes.
Right now he is fence-sitting. But he is scared too, because fence-sitting while separated is not as certain at fence-sitting while at home. So he is running scared, unable to make a decision for himself, and scared that you will do it for him. The choices he believes are in front of you, because he can't bring himself to make these choices..., are to D or R. If he were to choose R right now, he would find a way to keep OW in the picture. If you choose R, then one of your expectations would be no OW, no fence-sitting. So he is either going to lose you or lose OW. That's why he is running out the door. He can't handle the situation and knows he is going to lose something.
He is going to do whatever he wants. It may feel to him like there is only one path forward. That would be the fog portion in all of this. He probably feels like OW is who he should be with because nobody else could possibly make him feel as good as her, but he is also feeling very sorry for doing this to you, so he is going to make things as smooth as possible for you. It's an internal struggle for him. One of his own making.
You need to look into the 180. Show some attitude and knock his ass off the fence. Take the reins in IC/MC. Don't let them allow your WH to waffle, to "figure out what is best for him" because he will just end up with excuses to leave you. At this point with your IC/MC, you and he need to go into the session and tell them what you want to do and that you won't be exploring options.
Just my two cents...
I'm really ready to move beyond all the affair stuff, because after all this time, I know it's *me* holding us back to having a terrific marriage, but I have such an inate fear of letting it all go. Anyone relate?
And, if you had to "try," what was it that helped you eventually realize that you did, in fact, want your BS and you would work to keep them? I realize that everyone's story and situation are different, but it seems to me that if you have to "try" to want to be married to someone who wants to be married to you, maybe you just shouldn't be married to them. I'm looking for stories that either support or disprove that assumption of mine.
Some background: I recently found out (from him) that my H doesn't know that he wants to be married to me, but that he wants to try to want to be. Those words are my interpretation of where he's at, but he didn't deny it or change them at all, so I think it's accurate. I'm very upset, and feel like the last six months have all been predicated on a lie, even if it was a lie I was telling myself. He doesn't get why I'm so upset, and seems to think that realization doesn't change anything (or at least all that much). I'm trying to figure out if I'm crazy, or what is going on.
Any perspective on the "yes, I want..." vs. the "I want to want... so I'm going to try to, but I don't really know" mindsets would be much-appreciated!
I hope I'm posting in the correct forum
I need honest opinions, the good , the bad & the ugly.
My H and I have been in R for months now with a slip up breaking the NC rule 2 months ago via email. There's been no physical contact for quite a few months.
I will tell you a little bit of the things he's doing so far in R. The more time passes, the more i notice he does for R. Calls me throughout the day,texts me. Calls me as soon as he walks out of his job and we talk till he's right around the corner,he doesnt go out anymore on the weekends. Where ever he goes, he insists that I go with him,reaches out to me always to hold hands. He's given me passwords for emails, password for cell phone use.
The more time passes, the less I look.Sex is great by the way.
NOW to my question/s
As you folks may know, i get triggers often. Most of the time I DO NOT show much emotion. What I mean is I am not the type that will scream everyday telling him . "Did you like the way she did this better than me?!!'I dont bring it up.
when we are out and I see the same type of car and color as the MOW, its a bad trigger. I can tell that he stares at the cars like I do. She works for an office that has a chain of offices through out our city. So everytime we pass by those offices I cant help but look in that direction. The other day we passed and I notice him staring at the parking lot then he just turned away. The whole time he was holding my hand and we were on our way to the beach.
He's been way more connected/rebonding with me. He's being the man he was years ago. But I keep thinking and wondering.
Does he look at the parking lot or look at the same type of car MOW had because he remembers or he misses her? I know Some or most of you will tell me " Why dont you ask your H?" Things are going too well for me to bring this up and spend a quiet silent day because I brought her up.
Its been a few months. How are you WS doing? By the way the A lasted about 7-8 months total. It was not continous it was 2 months and then a breakup. Then another 4 weeks and then a breakup because they were constantly suspecting each other cheating.
For those of you in a A for 6-9 months. How were you Mentally after 5 months of NC?
I want to know what you were thinking, feeling?
(this is what I wrote yesterday)
This morning I woke up at 5:30 am and this feeling of sadness was overwhelming. I remember the feelings of rejection, abondment and sleeping alone for months crying my eyes out. I remember being so happy in our marriage also. I thought " If things were so great and I was happy but I was blind because my H COMPLETELY changed during the A into someone who wasnt bothered by tears,who told me I dont feel the same anymore.The one night when I just fell apart and drove my car with no seatbelt rushing through stop signs and ending up stuck in a bunch of bushes and trees. Only to have him follow me and tell me to go home. He was going to MOW. He told me that i ruined Xmas so he was taking New Year's as payback.
Now everything is going the way it used to be. He does love me, of that i have no doubts. He is as attentive as when we started dating. He is genuinely concerned for me for any little thing. He is VEry affectionate,holds me,hugs,tons of kisses and we are together like two pieces of chewing gum lol. So why do I question this? i asked myself today. Things seemed perfect for years and in the recent 2 yrs I realized I was blind for at least a year. Now Im suppose to believe that this is the real deal?
The only way to describe this and I hope that I dont offend anyone, please.
Imagine loving a man with all your heart and soul,giving him all ofyou and always thinking of him first because he has always been the best man in your life. And then he loses his mind, tortures you mentally in the most TWISTED & Evil ways and leaves you basically brain damaged. Now he is sane again, he realizes all his wrongs and is trying desperately to convince me that he has his mind back, that he was an idiot with his head up his ass and didnt think of anyone else. But now he is working 24/7 for us. our BOND is like no other Ive seen. I have dozens of stories that will give you chills on how connected we are. During the A and his battle with trying to do the right thing, he asked for help in a church. He started to read the bible, begging God to remove this MOW from his heart completely, that he wanted me 100% again but was fighting within. He left one day here and went to a lake. He would not reply to my text. I was a mess of tears and dispair in our bathroom floor asking God WHY me?I took my bible and started to read. You may think this is bullshit but I started to read and I was not just reading, the verses were words talking to me about everything i was feeling in everyway. It talked about adultry as well. At that moment my H calls me in tears telling me he is sitting by a lake reading the bible and he started to read to me outloud what he just read. I interrupted him and finished the verse. He then tells me "you have this memorized?! OMG" I told him through tears " No, when you walked out I litteraly fell on my knees in bthroom and cried until I nearly lost my voice. I opened the bible and that is where my finger is right now...over the same thing you are reading. He was so shaken he could barely talk.
MANY more things like this happened and he kept saying " I know God is talking to me, I know this is all wrong, I know Im hurting you" but the A continued for a few more months until it ended finally earlier this year.
People think I am doing amazingly well. But I feel like I am so brain damaged,heartbroken. he says he knows it will take time for us to heal again. I just dont think he realizes it may take a few yrs.
DD 6/26/10 (he broke down & confessed)
DD#2 3/14/11 H in OW's car
TT 7/1/11 (NC broken, through emails)
SoLost - Ambivalence can take over. One has to get completely out of the fog first though.I wanted to want it too. I did't want to break BH's heart at all. So, I ended the A and focused on the M. We looked at what we wanted from marriage and from each other, and quite frankly, not much matched up. Wanting to want it is a good first step. There is still a lot of work to do though. I read Too Good To Leave/Too Bad To Stay. It really helped both of us.
Good Luck to you both!
As a WS that has struggled with weight issues and self esteem problems, I can tell you that it really isn't that you are not enough! The real root of the problem could be that he isn't capable of hearing or feeling your affection towards him. For me, I was so busy saying "ya but" in my head that I completely missed the big picture. So for him, he may be thinking that the affection you were giving was out of obligation as his wife. He also may have missed it because your affection may not have hit on his particular love language. I actually wrote a post a while back regarding this very subject. I'll provide the link. Hope this helps.
[This message edited by nothereorthere at 3:06 AM, September 1st (Thursday)]
While your WS is certainly displaying some promising changes, it worries me that he broke NC after so long. That suggests that he has some unresolved feelings, and I hope he took that breach of NC very seriously and now understands why he did it and how he can prevent it from ever happening again. As you know, breaking NC is a VERY big mistake, and it puzzles me that a man so seemingly changed could do this.
Given this, I feel it could go either way with what he is thinking when he looks at these triggers. Maybe he has some unresolved feelings, maybe he's remorseful, or maybe it's a mix. In any case, I think it is important for you to ask him about it sometime soon. If you don't want to bring it up when it happens, then I recommend waiting for a comfortable, safe time to let him know that you have something you've been wondering about.
As a related issue, it worries me that you cannot safely communicate about your triggers in a receptive atmosphere. Why does it lead to a day of silence? That doesn't seem right to me, especially if it's him being obstinate or defensive.
Regarding 5 months of NC,that was an important time for me, but I believe it's a highly individualized process. Personally, by then, I had moved beyond feelings of infatuation or attachment, but I hadn't achieved indifference yet (the ultimate goal, in my opinion). I still minimized the OW's part in the affair and would often attribute her actions to her weakness or naivety. Triggers would remind me of her, but I didn't miss her or lament any loss. If I was with my BGF and a trigger would come up, I would get worried about her feelings and expect it to affect her, and not really know what to do next. I imagine I often had a strange look on my face. Anyhow, it took me another few months after that before I felt indifferent, and that hasn't changed at all in the year+ since then.
I think you should proceed cautiously, because the NC breach is very suspicious. At the least, it proves he has much more work ahead of him.
I wish you the best of luck and much strength as you continue your journey, and I sincerely hope your WS will give you the patience and understanding that you need to heal, however many years it takes.
I am so sorry that your WS is putting you through such a miserable time. You're absolutely right that you deserve better. He is clearly not remorseful, and he appears to be actively cheating and lying. His defensiveness and hostility are powerful, and he is being overtly emotionally abusive (and physically too, it seems).
Even if his actions were solely the result of pent-up frustrations and poor coping, it would only explain his temporary outbursts during emotional conversations... it could NOT explain the consistent belittling, blaming, and complete lack of remorse. At some point, he would apologize sincerely.
He's lying. He's probably cheating. Even if you ignored those two points, he's still strongly disrespecting you in multiple ways. I'm sorry that he's wasted so much of your time... you gave him the gift of reconciliation, which should be absolutely cherished, and he has run it down the garbage disposal.
Seek help from friends, family, SI, counselors, and anywhere else you might find support. Once more: you deserve better. You deserve respect, at all times. You deserve patience and understanding. You deserve kindness and humility. Simply, you deserve all of this, and your WS isn't even TRYING to give it to you. Once again, I'm truly sorry for what you're going through... I can't even begin to imagine how hard this must be for you.
many d-days, still in limbo
- Hiding your past is a great way to guarantee a future you won't be satisfied with -
My Wh has no problem having an erection while he is performing foreplay on me.....but as soon as I start on him he slowly looses it. He has started initiating sex with me, but is has been mainly foreplay just for me so far.
There is stress at work also at this time for him.
Is this from guilt?
How can I help?
How can he get over this?
I feel it has caused a big problem with us in reconciling.
I did ask him of his feelings towards intimacy with me. And if there is a problem with wanting it with me.
His response was anger. He is tired of the questions and getting analyzed.
He does not like to talk of anything personal between us and I have stopped asking him anything or bringing up our personal life for many, many months, but this seemed to need talking about.
I have been wondering if it is his attraction towards me.
Thanks for any help or advice.
He needs to support that and be there as well as working on his issues and choices.
If you notice that he's doing that and feel like talking about it then by all means do so. Remember this is your healing and what you need to do it. If you need him to tell you what he's thinking then ask him. If you want to tell him it sucks balls that you look at the cars, locations and are reminded that they represent things and places that ripped the shit out of your life and your heart than tell him exactly that.
If you need to tell him that his eyes are like hands and fingers reaching toward something that is completely away from you and is creating distance tell him.
After my NC phone call I was done. I seldom thought of him unless he was trying to contact me or I saw him and even then he was a pond the stone sunk without a ripple.
I can go places we went and never have him cross my mind so. It is possible to feel that.
Not sure what your WS is feeling but I'm far more concerned and interested in what you're feeling and hope you can start to feel that as well. Do whatever you need to do to heal (aside from the obvious destructive choices...you know, like your WS made).
Let him worry about the marriage right now. You focus on you.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
I am sorry I didn't mean to sound hostile with my last question.
"How do you live with yourself...? It's just my WH seems to be dealing by drinking more and more. I am just confused. apparently his AP could have some influence on his job so I think he always on edge.
Thank you for your answers to my other questions they helped alot.
Lately my WS has been starting arguments
He seems to have gotten angrier
Tonight I found a message on his cell phone from a woman telling him that she's sorry she won't be able to meet him on time
is tired of being accused
he continues to charge things we don't need on the credit cards
I think he's cheating again, or, at least, on the slippery slope.
Do you think he will change in 5 years? In 10?
did you have to try to want to be married to your BS, or did you just know that's what you wanted?
Can you ask your H what exactly he means? Whether he really means he wants to run away because he is ashamed?
Because quite frankly, since my affection and attention wasn't enough, I feel like I wasn't enough.
Do you feel this way about other things? If you baked a fabulous pie for someone and that person did not like it, would you assume it is because there was something missing in you? Or do you understand that, well, it's that person's issue that he or she did not like your pie?
That is a silly example, but do you understand my point? Do you always link other people's responses, which are informed by their past and their demons, as having everything to do with you?
"How do you live with yourself...? It's just my WH seems to be dealing by drinking more and more. I am just confused. apparently his AP could have some influence on his job so I think he always on edge
Thanks for the clarification. So, what is your question, then? Are you trying to figure out why your husband is drinking more? That you want to know whether it is because of the affair or because the AP can get him fired?
Or are you looking for a poll type of response - that Waywards "live with themselves" by drinking, by exercising, by reading... and therefore drinking is something that Waywards do, so it is okay for your husband?
Did any of you WS stay with your BS until it was a better time to leave for OW
You aren't in R at this point. Something isn't clicking with your WH so he is going to keep the status quo. He is going to force you to make the change, but he isn't going to likely expect the 180, which is what you should probably be doing right now.